AndtheMoonIntoBlood

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Hitch

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7And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:
21And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.







What kind of an ignorant fool would say this prophecy has come to pass?


14But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;



Oh never mind.

I wonder why none of you great prophetic experts have demonstrated when the moon turned into blood,,, and its seems at some point turned back into the moon we see today.

In reality ,despite silly self serving claims like this; The Scriptures are plain to us that these events will LITERALLY happen in the future; most prophecy came true outside anything that could rationally be considered 'literall'.
 

Trekson

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Hi Hitch, This really isn't as difficult as it seems. To give context, Peter was quoting the passage in it's entirety but he was really only focusing on vss. 17 & 18 to get to the conclusion of vs.21. Vss. 19 & 20 are still future. There is a similar situation in the book of Hebrews describing the new covenant.

Heb.8:8-12 - "For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
[sup]9 [/sup]Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
[sup]10 [/sup]For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
[sup]11 [/sup]And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
[sup]12 [/sup]For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more."

We know the new covenant is already established and we live by it, but it is also obvious that vs. 11 will only be fulfilled in the millennium. So again, the entire passage is given for context, but it is up to the hearer of these words to realize which parts are for today and which ones are for tomorrow.
 

Hitch

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Thats far too much of a stretch Trek.

Besides have not our hearts been turned from cold and stony to living and warm to the Spirit? Why/How could this be better accomplished by Christ bodily presence than it is today?

You must frame your answer knowing that this task is given the Holy Spirit, and He is perfect in execution.
 

Trekson

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Could you be more specific? What part is a stretch?
 

Hitch

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Could you be more specific? What part is a stretch?
Hi Hitch, This really isn't as difficult as it seems. To give context, Peter was quoting the passage in it's entirety but he was really only focusing on vss. 17 & 18 to get to the conclusion of vs.21. Vss. 19 & 20 are still future.


And v 21?

So you claim to know what Pete was thinking at that time nearly 2,000 years ago. Can you tell me what your pastor is thinking right now? What qualifies you to make this correction ? Dint Pete speak under inspiration of the Spirit?
 

Trekson

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Sometimes you got to use a little common sense, the Holy Spirit worked then as He works now. Look at how many times things regarding the end times are considered to be "soon". Obviously, what is "soon" to God isn't "soon" to us. One mustn't get their knickers in a twist over word for word passages when the rest of scriptures gives us the implications of what is being spoken of. Ask of the Holy Spirit and He will clarify things for you.
 

Hitch

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Sometimes you got to use a little common sense, the Holy Spirit worked then as He works now. Look at how many times things regarding the end times are considered to be "soon". Obviously, what is "soon" to God isn't "soon" to us. One mustn't get their knickers in a twist over word for word passages when the rest of scriptures gives us the implications of what is being spoken of. Ask of the Holy Spirit and He will clarify things for you.

Fulfilled first century

7And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:


To be fulfilled unkonwn future date ,time elasped so far 2,000 yrs +-

19And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:



Current reality.

21And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Common sense? I dont think soTim,' now is the time now is the day of salvation'.

BTW God is pretty good at communicating when he says 'soon' its not as though he has his fingers crossed and it actually means something else.
 

Trekson

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Imo, vs. 7 is still a current reality and is still being fulfilled.
 

veteran

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7And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:
21And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.







What kind of an ignorant fool would say this prophecy has come to pass?


14But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;



Oh never mind.

I wonder why none of you great prophetic experts have demonstrated when the moon turned into blood,,, and its seems at some point turned back into the moon we see today.

In reality ,despite silly self serving claims like this; The Scriptures are plain to us that these events will LITERALLY happen in the future; most prophecy came true outside anything that could rationally be considered 'literall'.

That's nutty reasoning.

The Acts 2 event was an example of an event written the Joel 2 prophecy, an 'example', not the final events prophesied in the Book of Joel which are reserved for the very end of this world.
 

Hitch

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That's nutty reasoning.

The Acts 2 event was an example of an event written the Joel 2 prophecy, an 'example', not the final events prophesied in the Book of Joel which are reserved for the very end of this world.
LOL, Yeah what did Pete know anyway.

[sup]16 [/sup]But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;


LMAO it just doesnt get plainer that that.
 

Trekson

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Sorry, you don't agree but that's just the way it is. If the Holy Spirit were working in you then you would know this to be true.
 

Hitch

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Sorry, you don't agree but that's just the way it is. If the Holy Spirit were working in you then you would know this to be true.


I see ,agree with you or you're not even a christian. Thats a sad statement Trek, I hope you get past it.

Consider;

Yet we have the blessed assurance that every passing day brings our salvation nearer then when we believed. And while it is true that the church, during all her history, has had repeated evidence that the day was approaching, we ask, what are these evidences in our time? Surely they are of especial significance.

Shortly previous to the first coming of Christ the Holy Ghost, although He had given through Daniel a special revelation unto the devout Simeon-who was 'waiting for the consolation of Israel', to-wit:' that he should not see death before he had seen the Lord's Christ. Luke 2;26. And this leads us to ask: May not the same blessed Spirit who thus revealed this mighty event to Simeon of old (and probably the aged Anna also) likewise give unto a favored one, or chosen few of the faithful watching ones, to know that their glad eyes shall see His appearing, and that they shall never taste of death. Even so now, many of the most devout and faithful of God's people, in all denominations, both in this and foreign lands, are seriously impressed with the conviction, that the coming of the Lord is near


W.E. Blackstone, Jesus Is Coming ,1908 pgs 210,212,213. Emphasis added , portions of this article were first published @1875.

How many times have you been told that if you would just listen to the Holy Spirit ,you too ,would be able to see the 'signs of the times'.? Something else that hasnt changed in a century is the intonation that real Christians, 'the most devout and faithful', know with certainty the time is near. You dont think its near because you're not faithful and devout,,,

Well ,at least, thanks to Mr Blackstone we know with certainty that the people he considered to be the most devout and faithful of all denominations completely failed in their predictions.

Take care

Hitch


Bear in mind the Blackstone quote was chosen because of its age and the authors longterm standing in DF circles, not because of the rarity of his position.
 

MTPockets

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Hi! Everyone

I don't know if you should be honored 'er anxious about this being my very first Post here. :unsure:

About the moon turning to blood.
The issue can perhaps be better understood by first answering the following questions for yourself:

1. Are you a "new creature"?
If the answer is yes, then you also have "new" eyes and "new ears" and "new" hands and feet. The new creature is ENTIRELY new and functions entirely new and (needless to say) ENTIRELY different than the former "old". After all, it's not for nothing that our Bible says, "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, ALL THINGS are become new".

2. Oh, lest we forget: Does the "new creature" possess a renewed mind as well?
"Do not be conformed to this world,but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect", (Rom 12:2).
If the answer is yes, let's jus' remember to be sure an' add this attribute to the abilities of the "new creature" too.

3. Where is the citizenship of this "new creature" with it's "new" attributes and abilities?
Hopefully, you might have answered: in the Kingdom of God (the light side of the Kingdom of Heaven)

4. Would you agree that this verse is PAST TENSE and very true?
"And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus":
Would you also agree that we NOW are learning to move and have our being "in heavenly places"?

Since we are "new creatures" with new abilities and attributes which allow us to function as new citizens in the invisible world, why should we be found insisting to continue to see with our "old" eyes and hear with our "old" ears?

Shouldn't we be attempting to see with our "new" eyes and hearing with our "new" ears?
And, let's not forget about our possessing a "renewed mind".
And, yes!, also about our ability to speak with tongues of both men and angels.

Let's read that again: "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood"

This description of the sun becoming black as sackcloth and the moon becoming as blood is the testimony of a "new creature" who is seeing with "new" eyes into the unseen Kingdom of God. It is the signature of a "new creature" expressing his faith and confessing "the evidence of things unseen".

This shouldn't surprise any of us because Paul had written, "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made".
When a man sets out to construct a building, he first creates a model and afterwards the building.
But God did just the opposite! He created the building (heaven) first and afterwards the model (earth).
So it is that the visible world is a shadow of the invisible world and it's unseen realities.

In addition, this is precisely the manner and origin of a parable. A parable is essentially the construction of an allegory; the result of which causes the visible things to reveal the invisible things.
Jesus was in constant habit of this spiritual exercise because He too saw things with spiritual eyes and was having to describe the unseen realities of what he had witnessed using images of visible things.

Unfortunately, the physically blind often betray their blindness by unexpectedly stumbling into something foreign.
And, spiritual blindness is no different.
It's not for nothing that the Scripture says, "But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which [vail] is done away in Christ".

We must train ourselves to see with "new" eyes. We have to discipline the "new creature" to habitually live according to it's "new" godly functioning.
When God was walking with us in the early days of our hearing the gospel of repentance, there was no imperative to see and comprehend our "newness of life". But now, we have the yearning to grow past the "elementary doctrines" (Heb 6:1-2) and becoming earnest to mature "unto perfection". As such, we no longer remain content to have God walk with us as what Adam experienced. Instead, we wish to walk with God as is said of Enoch and Noah and having the confidence of, "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus".

So, how should we visualize "the moon became as blood" when using the eyes and ears and mind of the "new creature"?

Here's my own personal opinion to throw into the mix. I'm not the Pope and have never pretended infallibility. I'm merely trying to share what I myself have come to know of the particular Scripture in question.

This is the fulfillment of Isaiah 60:2: "For behold, darkness shall cover the earth, and thick darkness the peoples; but the Lord (the sun) will arise upon you, and his glory will be seen upon you". The powers of darkness put themselves between God and man. As a result, the light of God is darkened for those who dwell upon the earth because sin causes a separation between God and man. The light of God is no longer able to make contact with the unfaithful church that dwells upon the earth. It is as if the sun is screened off by that camel's hair cloth, (which people used in the MiddleEast).

As the sun is the image of God as light, the moon reflects the glory of the sun. The moon is a light in the night, and 'the light shines in the darkness'. So the moon is the image of Jesus Christ. He was the True Light, coming to enlighten the entire world (every man), (John 1:4-9). The fact that the moon adopts the color of blood is characteristic of the coming great apostasy. Blood is the image of natural life. In the unfaithful church, the name, word and work of Jesus Christ are not related to the Kingdom of Heaven but localized in natural earthly life. The attributes and abilities of the "new man" have become largely unknown or denied entirely..

Joel already prophesied about this. When the dark powers completely occupy the unfaithful church, he said: "The earth quakes before them, the heavens tremble. The sun and the moon are darkened, and the stars with draw their shining", and: "The sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord comes", (Joel 2:10-31). When the darkening has taken place and the Spirit of God been poured out on the faithful children of God, the terrible and great day of the Lord follows.Therefore, there is a separation and judgment already beginning. "Then the moon will be confounded, and the sun ashamed; for the Lord of hosts will reign on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem and before his elders he will manifest his glory", (Isaiah 24:23).

The "old" eyes of the unregenerate creature wish to improperly restrain and prevent the revealing of the invisible realities behind this Scripture verse. It is our task not to permit it to occur. We must determine to learn how to transpose the images to reveal the "things unseen".

I hope that this might strengthen the discussion of the Thread here. :)
 

veteran

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So it is just a spiritual conotation with no literal meaning?

Vs. 7 & 21 are both current reality

The example in Acts 2 was current reality, but the Joel 2 prophecy is for the end of days, i.e., tribulation timing. Christ pointed to what specific timing too...


Rev 6:12-17
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him That sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"
(KJV)

6th Seal timing, the time of Christ's wrath upon the wicked on earth at His future second coming.
 

Hitch

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So it is just a spiritual conotation with no literal meaning?



The example in Acts 2 was current reality, but the Joel 2 prophecy is for the end of days, i.e., tribulation timing. Christ pointed to what specific timing too...


Rev 6:12-17
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him That sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"
(KJV)

6th Seal timing, the time of Christ's wrath upon the wicked on earth at His future second coming.
As usual Pete is right , you dont matter.
 

Interceptor

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Why hasn't anyone brought up Isaiah 13-14?

Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD comes, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger, to make the land a desolation and to destroy its sinners from it.
Isa 13:10 For the stars of the heavens and their constellations will not give their light; the sun will be dark at its rising, and the moon will not shed its light.

Firstly, it's a judgment prophecy on Babylon.

Isa 13:1 The oracle concerning Babylon which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw.

Secondly, it's a Day of the LORD judgment just like Acts 2:19-20 and Revelation 6:12-13 (look to Revelation 6:17).

Isa 13:6 Wail, for the day of the LORD is near; as destruction from the Almighty it will come!

Thirdly, the same events as mentioned in Matthew 24:29, Mark 13:24-25, Luke 21:25-26, Acts 2:19-20, and Revelation 6:12-13 are mentioned (the sun, moon, and stars). This is how we know these prophecies are related.

Isa 13:10 For the stars of the heavens and their constellations will not give their light; the sun will be dark at its rising, and the moon will not shed its light.

Fourthly, we know who God used to execute the judgment on Babylon.

Isa 13:17 Behold, I am stirring up the Medes against them, who have no regard for silver and do not delight in gold.

Isaiah 13-14 is fulfilled in the 6th Century B.C.

The very same words that Jesus and Peter and John that are used, were previously used by Isaiah to prophecy of the judgment and destruction of a nation.

Isa 13:19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the splendor and pomp of the Chaldeans, will be like Sodom and Gomorrah when God overthrew them.

-Interceptor
 

veteran

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Why hasn't anyone brought up Isaiah 13-14?

Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD comes, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger, to make the land a desolation and to destroy its sinners from it.
Isa 13:10 For the stars of the heavens and their constellations will not give their light; the sun will be dark at its rising, and the moon will not shed its light.

Firstly, it's a judgment prophecy on Babylon.

Isa 13:1 The oracle concerning Babylon which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw.

Secondly, it's a Day of the LORD judgment just like Acts 2:19-20 and Revelation 6:12-13 (look to Revelation 6:17).

Isa 13:6 Wail, for the day of the LORD is near; as destruction from the Almighty it will come!

Thirdly, the same events as mentioned in Matthew 24:29, Mark 13:24-25, Luke 21:25-26, Acts 2:19-20, and Revelation 6:12-13 are mentioned (the sun, moon, and stars). This is how we know these prophecies are related.

Isa 13:10 For the stars of the heavens and their constellations will not give their light; the sun will be dark at its rising, and the moon will not shed its light.

Fourthly, we know who God used to execute the judgment on Babylon.

Isa 13:17 Behold, I am stirring up the Medes against them, who have no regard for silver and do not delight in gold.

Isaiah 13-14 is fulfilled in the 6th Century B.C.

The very same words that Jesus and Peter and John that are used, were previously used by Isaiah to prophecy of the judgment and destruction of a nation.

Isa 13:19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the splendor and pomp of the Chaldeans, will be like Sodom and Gomorrah when God overthrew them.

-Interceptor


Yeah, and that's why Apostle Peter admonished believers on Christ Jesus in the last days to also be mindful of the words of the OT prophets (2 Pet.3:2).

Like Apostle Paul showed in 2 Corinthians 11, the OT histories are "ensamples" for us upon whom the end of the world is come.