The 144,000 before God at the end.

[David in NJ]

Since it's the Bible that talks about "the tribulation" we go according to who's tribulation is being referred to by the words "the tribulation" in the Bible, and according to when the Bible times the rapture in respect of "the tribulation".

You've just made it totally obvious yet again that you couldn't care less what the Bible says about it. The phrase "pre-trib" is all important to you - but what the Bible says about it is either of no importance to you, or at the very best, of far less importance to you than the phrase "pre-trib".

Your own words above betray your attitude toward scripture.

How you can still tell others to 'crack open that Bible' beggars belief.

i think he meant 'he was cracking eggs and scrambling them'

 

[covenantee]

i think he meant 'he was cracking eggs and scrambling them'

Does this drive dispen interpretation?

 

[The Light]

Your belief, not mine.

Romans 2
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

So tell us what your "replacement theology" claims is replaced.

Don't be afraid.

Yeah. I invented replacement theology.

 

[The Light]

All who are found written in the book, just as Dan 12:1 tells us, shall be delivered from physical death to immortal and incorruptible physical life in an hour coming when the last trumpet sounds, and ALL who are in the graves shall be resurrected either to life or damnation. That's why Daniel clearly writes only of "many" who have died shall awake to everlasting life, and some to shame and contempt.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Daniel also shows us how the many are to be delivered throughout this age of the Gospel, called "a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time." We should understand Daniel is writing of "great tribulation" that Christ tells us shall come upon His people in this Gospel age. And how can we be certain this is what Daniel is speaking of? He tells us those who shall be delivered, the many who shall awake to everlasting life are "the wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. The many turned to righteousness is through the Gospel preached in the power of the Holy Spirit and whosoever hears and believes have been made righteous through Christ.

As usual you skip over the part where the verses are about the people of Daniel.

Daniel 12
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

And it says MANY of them that sleep in the ground shall be raised.................not ALL of them that sleep in the ground.

Daniel 12
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Bringing Johns verse into the argument doesn't change the verses of Daniel.

The verses of Daniel are talking about what happens at the 6th seal. The verses of John are talking about what happens at the 7th trumpet.

The fact that you don't understand these things does not change the truth of the verses.

 

[ewq1938]

You haven't figured out that Christ has set up His kingdom on earth when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. If you can't get answer when it is given to you, how would you expect............

Everyone knows that. Why haven't you figured out that the wrath of God coming at the 7th trump does not mean it is ending then?

 

[covenantee]

Yeah. I invented replacement theology.

Obviously. Then why can't you explain it?

 

[rwb]

As usual you skip over the part where the verses are about the people of Daniel.

Daniel 12
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

And it says MANY of them that sleep in the ground shall be raised.................not ALL of them that sleep in the ground.

Daniel 12
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Bringing Johns verse into the argument doesn't change the verses of Daniel.

The verses of Daniel are talking about what happens at the 6th seal. The verses of John are talking about what happens at the 7th trumpet.

The fact that you don't understand these things does not change the truth of the verses.

You skip over the part of who the children of the people of Daniel are. He is a man of faith, a child of God, believer in the great prince, the Messiah. It's not about Daniel's ethnic lineage, but about the people of faith who with Daniel believe in The Messiah who would come to eternally save them.

You understand through your vivid imagination of what you think the Bible says. But once again you make these statements with no verification from the Scriptures you pretend to understand. When the sixth seal is opened the great day of His wrath has come.

Revelation 6:12-17 (KJV) And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

When the seventh seal is opened after a short silence in heaven, we are introduced to seven angels who shall blow seven trumpets in order. Those seven trumpets introduce destruction and death that is to come upon the whole heaven and earth. It is a time of great tribulation to the inhabitants upon the earth, especially Christians. A time when it shall be determined what part of mankind is faithful unto Christ to death, and the rest of mankind who shall die in their sins, being in league with the king of the bottomless pit. Then when the seventh angel begins to sound, time given this earth to build the spiritual Kingdom of God as the Gospel is proclaimed unto all the earth, shall be no longer. All that is left after this is Satan's little season, that ends with His destruction in the lake of fire, along with all his followers.

 

[The Light]

Obviously. Then why can't you explain it?

LOL. What's to explain? The fact that unbelieving men that didn't believe that God would keep His promise to His Chosen teach that they have replaced Israel is nothing new. See Matthew 25.

 

[covenantee]

LOL. What's to explain? The fact that unbelieving men that didn't believe that God would keep His promise to His Chosen teach that they have replaced Israel is nothing new. See Matthew 25.

They haven't replaced Israel's DNA.

What have they replaced?

 

[The Light]

You skip over the part of who the children of the people of Daniel are. He is a man of faith, a child of God, believer in the great prince, the Messiah. It's not about Daniel's ethnic lineage, but about the people of faith who with Daniel believe in The Messiah who would come to eternally save them.

You understand through your vivid imagination of what you think the Bible says. But once again you make these statements with no verification from the Scriptures you pretend to understand. When the sixth seal is opened the great day of His wrath has come.

Exactly. Jesus comes for the harvest at the 6th seal and when the 7th seal is opened the trumpets of wrath will begin.

Revelation 6:12-17 (KJV) And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

When the seventh seal is opened after a short silence in heaven, we are introduced to seven angels who shall blow seven trumpets in order. Those seven trumpets introduce destruction and death that is to come upon the whole heaven and earth. It is a time of great tribulation to the inhabitants upon the earth, especially Christians.

No way. The tribulation is over at the 6th seal as the Word says. The 7th seal is the wrath of God.

A time when it shall be determined what part of mankind is faithful unto Christ to death, and the rest of mankind who shall die in their sins, being in league with the king of the bottomless pit. Then when the seventh angel begins to sound, time given this earth to build the spiritual Kingdom of God as the Gospel is proclaimed unto all the earth, shall be no longer. All that is left after this is Satan's little season, that ends with His destruction in the lake of fire, along with all his followers.

The tribulation is over at the 6th seal. There is a harvest as believers are not appointed to wrath.

You are in error that the Church goes through the wrath of God. We are NOT appointed to wrath.

 

[The Light]

They haven't replaced Israel's DNA.

What have they replaced?

Exactly. Who do you think you have replaced. The Chosen? Right.

 

[Timtofly]

40 Therefore as the darnel are gathered and burned in the fire, so it shall be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do iniquity,
42 and shall cast them into a furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous shall shine out like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

So why is Jesus going to send His angels to gather His elect if they're still on earth after the goats have been gathered and cast into the lake of fire?

29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
30 And then the sign of the Son of man shall appear in the heavens. And then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of the heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Whose resurrection and rapture is Paul speaking about then?

16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord.

The church is gathered first. Then Jesus is on earth as King sitting on a throne in a Temple in Jerusalem. The angels gather all the elect until almost all of Adam's dead corruptible flesh is harvested.

The sheep and goats are removed during the Trumpets.

The wheat and tares are gathered during the Thunders.

That is the order of the final harvest.

The angels have been gathering all since the Second Coming started and continue through Jacob's trouble, the Trumpets. By the 7th Trumpet after the 7 Thunders the harvest will be considered complete.

At the 7th Trumpet there may still be some gleanings. Thus Satan will get an additional 42 months so the beheaded can be harvested. Armageddon is then the winepress of God's wrath, and the last of Adam's dead corruptible flesh to be destroyed.

Souls are not harvested by driving to Jerusalem, or taking public transportation. The angels will be doing all the transportation.

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations:"

The angels will be doing all the gathering.

 

[covenantee]

Exactly. Who do you think you have replaced. The Chosen? Right.

You continue to be incapable of identifying what has been replaced.

I haven't replaced any Jew's DNA. So what do you think I've replaced?

The Chosen are all Jews and Gentiles who have received Christ.

They have replaced no one and nothing.

And no one and nothing has replaced them.

Do you think that Christian Jews have replaced non-Christian Jews?

If a Christian Jew or Gentile has replaced a non-Christian Jew, this would mean that the non-Christian Jew cannot come to Christ, because his place has been taken by the Christian Jew or Gentile.

Your "replacement theology" is an irrational absurdity.

 

[rwb]

Exactly. Jesus comes for the harvest at the 6th seal and when the 7th seal is opened the trumpets of wrath will begin.

No way. The tribulation is over at the 6th seal as the Word says. The 7th seal is the wrath of God.


The tribulation is over at the 6th seal. There is a harvest as believers are not appointed to wrath.

You are in error that the Church goes through the wrath of God. We are NOT appointed to wrath.

More of your imagination I see! Why should anyone listen to anything you bring since you fail to back your imagination up with Scripture?

 

[The Light]

You continue to be incapable of identifying what has been replaced.

I haven't replaced any Jew's DNA. So what do you think I've replaced?

The Chosen are all Jews and Gentiles who have received Christ.

They have replaced no one and nothing.

And no one and nothing has replaced them.

Do you think that Christian Jews have replaced non-Christian Jews?

If a Christian Jew or Gentile has replaced a non-Christian Jew, this would mean that the non-Christian Jew cannot come to Christ, because his place has been taken by the Christian Jew or Gentile.

Your "replacement theology" is an irrational absurdity.

There it is again. MY replacement theology. So I have invented replacement theology and all the world has been educated by me.

Priceless.

If you look up replacement theology there will be a picture of me. LOL

 

[The Light]

More of your imagination I see! Why should anyone listen to anything you bring since you fail to back your imagination up with Scripture?

No doubt, the foolish virgins will not listen to me as they are blind to the truth as a Jew is currently blind to the Messiah.

Fact. You have the Church going through the wrath of God and you are blind to the fact that the Church is NOT APPOINTED TO WRATH.

 

[ewq1938]

No doubt, the foolish virgins will not listen to me as they are blind to the truth as a Jew is currently blind to the Messiah.

Fact. You have the Church going through the wrath of God and you are blind to the fact that the Church is NOT APPOINTED TO WRATH.

Not one person believe the Church (the faithful) goes through God's wrath. That is a strawman fallacy you have invented.

It is the church that is part of the "Departure" (apostasia) that actually will suffer the wrath of God.

 

[covenantee]

There it is again. MY replacement theology. So I have invented replacement theology and all the world has been educated by me.

Priceless.

If you look up replacement theology there will be a picture of me. LOL

You cling to it, it clings to you.

Simply declare that you no longer believe it, and eliminate it from your posts, and I will no longer refer to it as "yours".

Deal?

 

[rwb]

No doubt, the foolish virgins will not listen to me as they are blind to the truth as a Jew is currently blind to the Messiah.

Fact. You have the Church going through the wrath of God and you are blind to the fact that the Church is NOT APPOINTED TO WRATH.

The Church suffers "great tribulation" in this world, and when the last trumpet begins to sound the Church will be gathered together to meet the Lord in the air as the WRATH of God against this world and whosoever is left on earth, shall be consumed by the fire of God that comes down from heaven! You really have no understanding of "great tribulation" because you are too blind to realize "great tribulation" Christ warned His saints would be, has been here from the beginning. Even the first century disciples suffered "great tribulation", but Christians shall not suffer the wrath of God that comes against this world of unbelievers and the demonic hosts.

 

[The Light]

Not one person believe the Church (the faithful) goes through God's wrath. That is a strawman fallacy you have invented.

It is the church that is part of the "Departure" (apostasia) that actually will suffer the wrath of God.

The Church will not go through the tribulation, let alone the wrath of God.

You can't figure out the trumpets are Gods wrath. Simple as that.