I am crucified with Christ - The Word for the Healing of the Body, Today.

[Axehead]

Most people who profess to be Christians and to be born again do not really know Jesus and never have. The reason for this condition is that the ministries that have presented salvation to the people are in the flesh. They are sensual and worldly and view everything in the Bible through natural eyes (not spiritual) and evaluate everything with the carnal mind. By implying it or saying it directly, they teach people to be preoccupied with the things in the natural realm that minister to the flesh. The Bible says to DIE TO IT. They teach folks to go after the world and the things of the world. The Bible teaches us to give up the world. They are involved in a religious system that keeps them in bondage to the world, the things in the world and their self-life. Consequently, they are under the law. The scripture says that anyone under the law is under a curse., (severed from Christ, fallen from grace).

The sin of presumption also dominates them. Presumption simply means that a person thinks he is in a position or some kind of status with God because of some doctrinal belief or some kind of religious experience or activity that they have encountered or that they have been involved in. This is the condition that today's so-called "church" is in. The desire and objective of this ministry is to preach the full message of the cross of Christ so that the Body of Christ will come forth as the true Church and so that God will truly have a people for His own possession and so that they can be a WITNESS to this perverse and rebellious generation that Jesus Christ is ALIVE in the Spirit, having died in and to the natural realm and having become a spiritual KING, not a natural or carnal one.

Axehead

 

[Trekson]

Uh oh, I think I might be guilty of presumption as I consider myself a king and priest. Rev. 1:6 - "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever." I also consider my self a joint- heir with Christ, Rom. 8:17 - "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together." I like to think that gives me a little status in the heavenly realm.

But seriously, I don't think the "majority" of the church is in the state you accuse them of. Of course, there are problems and denominational errors and false teachings and all sorts of problems with the "organizations" of churches. However, we won't be judged on any of that. Heb. 4:12 - "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." I think it's kind of comforting to know that even if we have been taught some things in error and believed them that if we truly love God and are trying to serve Him, He will look past all that. God is greater than our "church" wide short comings and will judge us as individuals and not on the denominations we belonged to, the doctrines we believed or the teachers we like to listen to.

There isn't anyone arriving in heaven with a clean slate unless they're covered by the righteous blood of Christ. Shouldn't we at least try to show a modicum of grace to our brothers and the church in general as we have received so generously given by God.

 

[Axehead]

Uh oh, I think I might be guilty of presumption as I consider myself a king and priest. Rev. 1:6 - "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever." I also consider my self a joint- heir with Christ, Rom. 8:17 - "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together." I like to think that gives me a little status in the heavenly realm.

That is not presumption, but faith in what the Word declares and the Spirit gives you a witness of.

But seriously, I don't think the "majority" of the church is in the state you accuse them of.

The broad way of destruction is a road built with religious cobblestones. Satan can be very "religious" and "good", you know. The road that is broad has many trekking on it. "Few there be that find the narrow way".

Of course, there are problems and denominational errors and false teachings and all sorts of problems with the "organizations" of churches. However, we won't be judged on any of that. Heb. 4:12 - "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." I think it's kind of comforting to know that even if we have been taught some things in error and believed them that if we truly love God and are trying to serve Him, He will look past all that. God is greater than our "church" wide short comings and will judge us as individuals and not on the denominations we belonged to, the doctrines we believed or the teachers we like to listen to.

Paul talks about False Teachers and False Prophets teaching false things (obviously). If God gives you some truth that can help someone to be free, would you give it to them or just say that "God will look past it" and go on your way?

[background=white]The devil's great purpose, and the fight that he is constantly engaged in is to keep the world in ignorance of himself, his ways, and his colleagues, and the Church is taking sides with him when siding with ignorance about him. Christians, of all people should keep an attitude of teach-ability and openness to all truth.

Satan couches his counterfeit truth (lies) within God's truth and his false knowledge has slain thousands. The children of God are a prey to the Enemy for their lack of knowledge (ignorance).

The Bible tells us in Timothy that there is a special onslaught of deceiving spirits upon the Church of Christ in these "later times". It is a fulfillment of prophecy which the Holy Spirit made known to the Church through the Apostle Paul.

Even though we have this prophetic warning in "later times" the Church is almost totally ignorant of this army of evil spirits. Most believers too easily accept everything "supernatural" as of God, and supernatural experiences are indiscriminately accepted because all supernatural experiences are automatically accepted as Divine.

When a man is thinking that he is "fighting for the truth," it is possible that he may be defending and fighting on the side of evil spirits, and their works, thinking that he is "defending God". If he thinks something is of God, then he will protect and stand for it with all his might. This shows you how clever the Devil is, that through ignorance he can cause a man to stand against God and to attack the truth of God.

"Bewitched" is a very good word that the Holy Spirit inspired Paul to use (in Galatians).

The Apostle said: "The Spirit saith expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons,through the hypocrisy of men that speak lies, seared in their own conscience as with a hot iron . . " (1 Tim. 4: 1, 2).[/background]

[background=white]We should never test "teaching" by the character of the teacher. Good men can be deceived, and Satan needs "a few good men" to deliver his lies under the facade of truth.[/background]

There isn't anyone arriving in heaven with a clean slate unless they're covered by the righteous blood of Christ. Shouldn't we at least try to show a modicum of grace to our brothers and the church in general as we have received so generously given by God.

If someone is in chains because of false teaching, wouldn't you help to unchain them if you could?

Axehead

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Most people who profess to be Christians and to be born again do not really know Jesus and never have. The reason for this condition is that the ministries that have presented salvation to the people are in the flesh. They are sensual and worldly and view everything in the Bible through natural eyes (not spiritual) and evaluate everything with the carnal mind.

Using that analogy , most of us would not get to Heaven

However , The Lord says He will still take us.

What you are really trying to say is that most Christians are not as good as you .

Right?

However you are correct that many of us are fat and lazy and worldly because we live in prosperity and have few worries.

But take all that away , and we remain Christian believers and that is what counts.

Unless we (they) were not believers in the first place , if that is the case , none of this conversation applies to them anyway.

 

[mark s]

Most people who profess to be Christians and to be born again do not really know Jesus and never have. The reason for this condition is that the ministries that have presented salvation to the people are in the flesh. They are sensual and worldly and view everything in the Bible through natural eyes (not spiritual) and evaluate everything with the carnal mind. By implying it or saying it directly, they teach people to be preoccupied with the things in the natural realm that minister to the flesh. The Bible says to DIE TO IT. They teach folks to go after the world and the things of the world. The Bible teaches us to give up the world. They are involved in a religious system that keeps them in bondage to the world, the things in the world and their self-life. Consequently, they are under the law. The scripture says that anyone under the law is under a curse., (severed from Christ, fallen from grace).

The sin of presumption also dominates them. Presumption simply means that a person thinks he is in a position or some kind of status with God because of some doctrinal belief or some kind of religious experience or activity that they have encountered or that they have been involved in. This is the condition that today's so-called "church" is in. The desire and objective of this ministry is to preach the full message of the cross of Christ so that the Body of Christ will come forth as the true Church and so that God will truly have a people for His own possession and so that they can be a WITNESS to this perverse and rebellious generation that Jesus Christ is ALIVE in the Spirit, having died in and to the natural realm and having become a spiritual KING, not a natural or carnal one.

Axehead

If you take away the "sweeping generalizations", and ad hominems, I think there are some things I can agree with.

The Bible says to DIE TO IT.

The Flesh, that is. I agree.

The Bible teaches us to give up the world.

Again, I agree.

The scripture says that anyone under the law is under a curse., (severed from Christ, fallen from grace).

Agree.

Presumption simply means that a person thinks he is in a position or some kind of status with God because of some doctrinal belief or some kind of religious experience or activity that they have encountered or that they have been involved in.

OK, I can agree with the general thought here . . .

The desire and objective of this ministry is to preach the full message of the cross of Christ so that the Body of Christ will come forth as the true Church and so that God will truly have a people for His own possession and so that they can be a WITNESS to this perverse and rebellious generation that Jesus Christ is ALIVE in the Spirit, having died in and to the natural realm and having become a spiritual KING, not a natural or carnal one.

Your meaning of "spiritual king" needs to be fleshed out a little (if you'll pardon the expression), but, taking this at face value, this brings us to some life changing truths:

Romans 3:19-28 NLT
(19) Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses and to bring the entire world into judgment before God.
(20) For no one can ever be made right in God's sight by doing what his law commands. For the more we know God's law, the clearer it becomes that we aren't obeying it.
(21) But now God has shown us a different way of being right in his sight--not by obeying the law but by the way promised in the Scriptures long ago.
(22) We are made right in God's sight when we trust in Jesus Christ to take away our sins. And we all can be saved in this same way, no matter who we are or what we have done.
(23) For all have sinned; all fall short of God's glorious standard.
(24) Yet now God in his gracious kindness declares us not guilty. He has done this through Christ Jesus, who has freed us by taking away our sins.
(25) For God sent Jesus to take the punishment for our sins and to satisfy God's anger against us. We are made right with God when we believe that Jesus shed his blood, sacrificing his life for us. God was being entirely fair and just when he did not punish those who sinned in former times.
(26) And he is entirely fair and just in this present time when he declares sinners to be right in his sight because they believe in Jesus.
(27) Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on our good deeds. It is based on our faith.
(28) So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.

One of my favorite places in the Bible where God's grace is explained through demonstration, is:

(4) I can never stop thanking God for all the generous gifts he has given you, now that you belong to Christ Jesus.
(5) He has enriched your church with the gifts of eloquence and every kind of knowledge.
(6) This shows that what I told you about Christ is true.
(7) Now you have every spiritual gift you need as you eagerly wait for the return of our Lord Jesus Christ.
(8) He will keep you strong right up to the end, and he will keep you free from all blame on the great day when our Lord Jesus Christ returns.
(9) God will surely do this for you, for he always does just what he says, and he is the one who invited you into this wonderful friendship with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

You realize who this was written to, right? That's right, the church in Corinth. This is 1 Corinthians chapter 1. This is how Paul introduces this letter:

1 Corinthians 1:2 NLT
(2) We are writing to the church of God in Corinth, you who have been called by God to be his own holy people. He made you holy by means of Christ Jesus, just as he did all Christians everywhere--whoever calls upon the name of Jesus Christ, our Lord and theirs.

Interesting thing here . . . "made you holy" is a perfect tense, which means this was done with enduring result. Having been made holy, that's the way it is. It's like a rung bell. Let's say you make a bell, but it's never been rung. Then you ring it. It's now a rung bell. It can never become again an "unrung" bell. It's been rung. This is the sense of the perfect tense.

Now, read this passage again, and keep in mind as you read, this is followed by a cataloging of the Corinthian Christian's shortcomings - sins - yet this is what God says to them:

1 Corinthians 1:2-9 NLT
(2) We are writing to the church of God in Corinth, you who have been called by God to be his own holy people. He made you holy by means of Christ Jesus, just as he did all Christians everywhere--whoever calls upon the name of Jesus Christ, our Lord and theirs.
(3) May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you his grace and peace.
(4) I can never stop thanking God for all the generous gifts he has given you, now that you belong to Christ Jesus.
(5) He has enriched your church with the gifts of eloquence and every kind of knowledge.
(6) This shows that what I told you about Christ is true.
(7) Now you have every spiritual gift you need as you eagerly wait for the return of our Lord Jesus Christ.
(8) He will keep you strong right up to the end, and he will keep you free from all blame on the great day when our Lord Jesus Christ returns.
(9) God will surely do this for you, for he always does just what he says, and he is the one who invited you into this wonderful friendship with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Amazing Grace!!!!! How sweet the sound!!!!!

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Most people who profess to be Christians and to be born again do not really know Jesus and never have. The reason for this condition is that the ministries that have presented salvation to the people are in the flesh.

Not to split hairs Axehead , but we are still in the flesh. Holy Spirit within yes , it tries to overcome our sinful nature yes , but all while we are still in these bodies.

Maybe we pamper , groom and feed these fleshly bodies too much , but the other option of being disheveled , starving and unclean would not be beneficial.

We have salvation , along with faults and flaws while here in the flesh , get over it , perfection comes in the life afterward .

By the way axehead , what spirit is in you that makes you think that we do not know Jesus , and only you do ??

Something wrong there sir. Be careful.

 

[Couppy]

Most people who profess to be Christians and to be born again do not really know Jesus and never have. The reason for this condition is that the ministries that have presented salvation to the people are in the flesh. They are sensual and worldly and view everything in the Bible through natural eyes (not spiritual) and evaluate everything with the carnal mind. By implying it or saying it directly, they teach people to be preoccupied with the things in the natural realm that minister to the flesh. The Bible says to DIE TO IT. They teach folks to go after the world and the things of the world. The Bible teaches us to give up the world. They are involved in a religious system that keeps them in bondage to the world, the things in the world and their self-life. Consequently, they are under the law. The scripture says that anyone under the law is under a curse., (severed from Christ, fallen from grace).

The sin of presumption also dominates them. Presumption simply means that a person thinks he is in a position or some kind of status with God because of some doctrinal belief or some kind of religious experience or activity that they have encountered or that they have been involved in. This is the condition that today's so-called "church" is in. The desire and objective of this ministry is to preach the full message of the cross of Christ so that the Body of Christ will come forth as the true Church and so that God will truly have a people for His own possession and so that they can be a WITNESS to this perverse and rebellious generation that Jesus Christ is ALIVE in the Spirit, having died in and to the natural realm and having become a spiritual KING, not a natural or carnal one.

Axehead

Not to split hairs Axehead , but we are still in the flesh. Holy Spirit within yes , it tries to overcome our sinful nature yes , but all while we are still in these bodies.

Maybe we pamper , groom and feed these fleshly bodies too much , but the other option of being disheveled , starving and unclean would not be beneficial.

We have salvation , along with faults and flaws while here in the flesh , get over it , perfection comes in the life afterward .

By the way axehead , what spirit is in you that makes you think that we do not know Jesus , and only you do ??

Something wrong there sir. Be careful.

Axehead,

I would like you to think very carefully about what you said. As I read your post I wondered if you have statistics to back up the point where you mentioned 'Most people who profess to be Christians and to be born again do not really know Jesus and never have.'. It is very easy to become passionate for God and sometimes miss where the fine line is with being judgmental. I feel you are looking at denominations and so-called religious Christians rather than so-called 'Church' of the living God.

'The Church', which is the Body of Christ, stands justified before God through the redemptive blood of Jesus Christ. We are moving towards perfection through various ministries that edify us. We have not attained to the fullness of Christ so some people will always find one fault or another with us.

Ephesians 4:11-16

"And He himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ: that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting."

One more thing, the full message of the gospel includes the Cross of Christ (His death), His burial, and His resurrection. We cannot preach one message without the other.

Couppy.

 

[Axehead]

We have this witness from the Scriptures:

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

The further witness to the words that Jesus spoke are our own lives, the alarming condition of the professing "Church", today, the "leaders" that lord over the Lord's flock and the false gospels that are preached.

All of these things corroborate what Jesus told us in Matthew 7:14.

This is a call to all of us including me and those who have the Spirit of God will receive this message and ponder it for there are much stronger words spoken of by Jesus and the Apostles.

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

What do you think of Paul saying "Always Obeyed".

A partial Gospel preached, does not conform anyone to godliness. God intends for us to hear His whole counsel.

May we have grace to receive all the Words of Christ.

Axehead

Romans 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

 

[Couppy]

We have this witness from the Scriptures:

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

The further witness to the words that Jesus spoke are our own lives, the alarming condition of the professing "Church", today, the "leaders" that lord over the Lord's flock and the false gospels that are preached.

All of these things corroborate what Jesus told us in Matthew 7:14.

This is a call to all of us including me and those who have the Spirit of God will receive this message and ponder it for there are much stronger words spoken of by Jesus and the Apostles.

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

What do you think of Paul saying "Always Obeyed".

A partial Gospel preached, does not conform anyone to godliness. God intends for us to hear His whole counsel.

May we have grace to receive all the Words of Christ.

Axehead

Romans 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Jesus is not rebuking HIs Church in Matthew 714 but referring to individuals including unbelievers who rejected the narrow way. I share your passion to get every preacher preaching the truth of the gospel. I believe there are many false preachers around but having a go at the 'Church' of God is not the answer.

To God, the 'Church' are those washed by the blood of Jesus and stand righteous in Christ. This group of people God is looking at as His Church are much smaller in number than the number of individuals professing to be Christians. I believe you are looking at individual Christians and your message are to individuals or collectively to a group of individuals, not necessarily to anyone on any of these forums here. Some of us are compromising. Some of us have received wrong doctrines. Some of us are struggling. Some of us need encouragement from passionate Christians like yourself. But do not criticise the 'Body of Christ'. You have to understand that the 'Church' are no ordinary people. They are the apple of God's eye. You can refer to individuals collectively or mention a group of so-called Christians.

When we talk of the 'Church' we do it with utmost respect. The Church is the 'Body of Christ'. We cannot just throw words at the 'Church' any way we like because those people who are counted as part of the 'Church' from God's perspective are not the same group of people (some may be part of it) who we are referring to as part of the 'Church'. You see people attending Church services and you assume they are the 'Church'. Some of them are. We are Christians and must always try to see things from a spiritual perspective.

Couppy.

 

[Prentis]

Most people who profess to be Christians and to be born again do not really know Jesus and never have. The reason for this condition is that the ministries that have presented salvation to the people are in the flesh. They are sensual and worldly and view everything in the Bible through natural eyes (not spiritual) and evaluate everything with the carnal mind. By implying it or saying it directly, they teach people to be preoccupied with the things in the natural realm that minister to the flesh. The Bible says to DIE TO IT. They teach folks to go after the world and the things of the world. The Bible teaches us to give up the world. They are involved in a religious system that keeps them in bondage to the world, the things in the world and their self-life. Consequently, they are under the law. The scripture says that anyone under the law is under a curse., (severed from Christ, fallen from grace).

The sin of presumption also dominates them. Presumption simply means that a person thinks he is in a position or some kind of status with God because of some doctrinal belief or some kind of religious experience or activity that they have encountered or that they have been involved in. This is the condition that today's so-called "church" is in. The desire and objective of this ministry is to preach the full message of the cross of Christ so that the Body of Christ will come forth as the true Church and so that God will truly have a people for His own possession and so that they can be a WITNESS to this perverse and rebellious generation that Jesus Christ is ALIVE in the Spirit, having died in and to the natural realm and having become a spiritual KING, not a natural or carnal one.

Axehead

Good post brother and spot on as to the error of the modern church!

The Laodiceans considered themselves rich, but were not... presumption.


Jesus speaking to the Pharisees said...
Joh 8:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

When we claim something that is not a reality, we are liars. Better to be humble and claim nothing more than what we have.

 

[Axehead]

Jesus is not rebuking HIs Church in Matthew 714 but referring to individuals including unbelievers who rejected the narrow way. I share your passion to get every preacher preaching the truth of the gospel. I believe there are many false preachers around but having a go at the 'Church' of God is not the answer.

To God, the 'Church' are those washed by the blood of Jesus and stand righteous in Christ. This group of people God is looking at as His Church are much smaller in number than the number of individuals professing to be Christians. I believe you are looking at individual Christians and your message are to individuals or collectively to a group of individuals, not necessarily to anyone on any of these forums here. Some of us are compromising. Some of us have received wrong doctrines. Some of us are struggling. Some of us need encouragement from passionate Christians like yourself. But do not criticise the 'Body of Christ'. You have to understand that the 'Church' are no ordinary people. They are the apple of God's eye. You can refer to individuals collectively or mention a group of so-called Christians.

When we talk of the 'Church' we do it with utmost respect. The Church is the 'Body of Christ'. We cannot just throw words at the 'Church' any way we like because those people who are counted as part of the 'Church' from God's perspective are not the same group of people (some may be part of it) who we are referring to as part of the 'Church'. You see people attending Church services and you assume they are the 'Church'. Some of them are. We are Christians and must always try to see things from a spiritual perspective.

Couppy.

What I think of the Saints of God (His Church)
Psa 16:3 But to the saints that are in the earth, and to the excellent, in whom is all my delight.

The Lord preserves the FAITHFUL. (Do you know what FAITHFUL implies. They are the only ones that the Lord will preserve?)

Psa 31:23 O love the LORD, all ye his saints: for the LORD preserveth the faithful, and plentifully rewardeth the proud doer.

The Ones that the Lord will gather from the four winds.
Psa 50:5 Gather my saints together unto me;THOSE that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice (sacrifice means to pick up your cross and deny self,. The covenant you establish with God is walked out by sacrifice. And these are not works of man but righteous works authored by the Holy Spirit within you. Obedience to the Spirit of God).

Couppy,
What do you think about Jeremiah? Do you think he spoke to the Lord's nation too harshly? Was he wrong to warn the Lord's people in the way that he did? What about other prophets that seemed to speak harshly to the people of God?

Pro 27:6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

Axehead

Couppy,

Who is James speaking to?

Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Jesus is not rebuking HIs Church in Matthew 714 but referring to individuals including unbelievers who rejected the narrow way.
Couppy.

I agree.

 

[Episkopos]

Why is it so difficult to see that there is a mixture in the churches...there are many rebellious ones who refuse to lay down their lives to die with Christ so as to be raised with Him in newness of life.

There are both tares and wheat. The tares will be burned and the wheat gathered to the barn. But a tare will not see himself as a tare. The wheat will ask...Am I a tare Lord? But not so the tare...he is too sure of his own salvation.

 

[Axehead]

Well, this is the way I look at it. If I need to be rebuked by the Lord then please do it Lord, and don't hesitate. And you know something, He won't and doesn't, hesitate.

Don't speak nice words to me and tell me how much you love me if you are not willing to tell me where I am going off the narrow road. That is not love and I'm not feeling it. Why do I feel and think this way? Because, I have been rebuked and chastened by the Lord (a lot) and fully expect that to continue because it has and is continuiing to "Yield the peaceable fruit of Righteousness".

I know what doesn't work because I have been there and God has put before my eyes what does work. What we need is ALL of HIS WORD. A partial reception of His Word will not conform us to godliness. It will only give us a FALSE SECURITY and FALSE ASSURANCE.


Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

So, you see, God does rebuke and chasten His Church (and continues to) and if you are not experiencing any of this, I would counsel you to seek the Lord and consider this Scripture.

2Cor 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Because, Titus was looking for something tangible and physical too, as a fruit of the faith that some people boasted that they had (just like today).
Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Did Titus just say that? IN THEIR WORKS THEIR DENY HIM. I don't think anyone here is of the opinion that Titus was into the LAW. At least I hope not.


All the best,
Axehead

 

[Couppy]

What I think of the Saints of God (His Church)
Psa 16:3 But to the saints that are in the earth, and to the excellent, in whom is all my delight.

The Lord preserves the FAITHFUL. (Do you know what FAITHFUL implies. They are the only ones that the Lord will preserve?)

Psa 31:23 O love the LORD, all ye his saints: for the LORD preserveth the faithful, and plentifully rewardeth the proud doer.

The Ones that the Lord will gather from the four winds.
Psa 50:5 Gather my saints together unto me;THOSE that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice (sacrifice means to pick up your cross and deny self,. The covenant you establish with God is walked out by sacrifice. And these are not works of man but righteous works authored by the Holy Spirit within you. Obedience to the Spirit of God).

Couppy,
What do you think about Jeremiah? Do you think he spoke to the Lord's nation too harshly? Was he wrong to warn the Lord's people in the way that he did? What about other prophets that seemed to speak harshly to the people of God?

Pro 27:6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

Axehead

Couppy,

Who is James speaking to?

Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

The book of James came across to me as admonishing and exhortating. It cannot be compared to the way the book of Isaiah, Jeremiah, or that of Paul to the Churches in Galatia were written.

Jeremiah was a prophet of God who warned the people of Israel, God's people, about the errors of their ways. I recognise prophets and ministers of God today who are doing the same thing to individual Christians and groups of Christians. We cannot rebuke the Church for who can lay charge against the elect of God? We can rebuke individuals and groups of Christians.

What is my point about the Church and individual Christians? Someone may ask 'is the Church not made up of individual Christians? My answer will be that the Church is made up of individual Christians who are committed, dedicated, and completely in obedience to God at all levels of maturity before God. If Jesus comes today they will be raptured.

The commonly referred to 'Church' are made up of Christians we see and hear of, made up of committed Christians, religious Christians, compromising Christians, fake Christians, and disobedient Christians. We speak generally about the Church yet we cannot see beyond those Christians who live around us and groups of people who attend Church services in our local.

God sees His people across continents and countries. Only God knows who serves him at the standard he expects. I cannot find anywhere in the New testament where Paul told off the whole 'Church' but he was not pleased with the saints in some of the local fellowships (which is also referred to as 'Church') e.g. the Churches in Galatia.

So, Axehead, when you were referring to 'most Christians', which group(s) of Christians did you mean? I assumed you were referring to the 'Church' across continents and countries.

Couppy.

 

[Axehead]

Couppy, it's best to weigh the words (whether they come from a 5 year old or 90 year old, male or female) and evaluate if there is truth in them FOR YOU (speaking generically). If nothing here speaks to you, that does not necessarily mean any of these words will not speak to anyone else. As the saying goes, "If the shoe fits..."

So, I will continue this thread and the understanding that the Lord has given me for The Healing of the Body, Today.

And we have to start at the NEW BIRTH.

Romans 6:7​

...for he who has died is freed from sin.​

To understand this verse, we must first define what form of death this scripture refers to. And to know what kind of death this is, we must gain an understanding of death.

The best way to describe death is to say that it is simply a separation. In physical death, the human spirit leaves the physical body and goes to God who gave it (Eccl 12:7). And the body goes back to the dust from which it came. Spiritual death is the separation of God from man, such as happened with Adam and Eve. The third kind of death as described by Romans 6:7 is a separation from the world. Evidence that you are separated (died to the world, sanctified, saved) from the world is that:

1. You are not a friend of the world (James 4:4)
2. You do not love the world, nor the things in the world (1 John 2:15)
3. You do not trust the world or its riches (Mark 10:24-25, 1 Tim 6:17, and John 17:14)

In the parable of the prodigal son, Luke 15:11, both the KJV and NASB state in verses 24 and 32 that the son was dead. This "death" exemplifies leaving his father's house or domain and going to a far country and engaging in loose and riotous living "Dead in trespasses and sin" (Eph 2:1). The far country is the world and loose and riotous living is the world's lifestyle. Paul, in Gal 6:14, says that by the cross he is dead to the world and the world is dead to him. Col 2:20, speaks of having died to the elementary principles of the world. And, in Gal 2:20, Paul testifies that he "has been" crucified with Christ. Notice the importance of the CROSS of CHRIST.

To say that you are born-again or born from above is to say that you have given up or let go of the world. You have separated yourself from it. It is no longer an idol in your heart. This is the greatest expression of faith toward God that you can exercise. The term "world" means realm, domain, kingdom and it encompasses everything that is in the world. So, we are in the world, but not of the world.

1John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Death to this domain means that by faith you have separated yourself from the natural world you are living in and awaiting the establishing of the Kingdom of God. You are also participating, actively in the establishment of the Kingdom of God. First in your heart and then as a servant and minister of the Lord.

1 Peter 2:9-11 says, "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;"

So, anyone that claims to be born again and yet is controlled by the LUST OF THE FLESH, THE LUST OF THE EYES and the BOASTFUL PRIDE OF LIFE is deceived. The new birth comes as a result of being convicted by the WORD and Holy Spirit that you are a part of the world and that you are motivated by self-centeredness, greediness and pleasure-seeking. He will not allow anyone to become a member of the Body of Christ or the Kingdom of God who does not turn from the world, which is where these things operate. Godly sorrow will begin to stir in your heart causing you to turn from these things (repent) and the cleansing power of the Holy Spirit will come on your and in you.

THIS IS WHAT BEING BORN AGAIN IS!!

Axehead

 

[Couppy]

Couppy, it's best to weigh the words (whether they come from a 5 year old or 90 year old, male or female) and evaluate if there is truth in them FOR YOU (speaking generically). If nothing here speaks to you, that does not necessarily mean any of these words will not speak to anyone else. As the saying goes, "If the shoe fits..."

So, I will continue this thread and the understanding that the Lord has given me for The Healing of the Body, Today.

And we have to start at the NEW BIRTH.

Romans 6:7​

...for he who has died is freed from sin.​

To understand this verse, we must first define what form of death this scripture refers to. And to know what kind of death this is, we must gain an understanding of death.

The best way to describe death is to say that it is simply a separation. In physical death, the human spirit leaves the physical body and goes to God who gave it (Eccl 12:7). And the body goes back to the dust from which it came. Spiritual death is the separation of God from man, such as happened with Adam and Eve. The third kind of death as described by Romans 6:7 is a separation from the world. Evidence that you are separated (died to the world, sanctified, saved) from the world is that:

1. You are not a friend of the world (James 4:4)
2. You do not love the world, nor the things in the world (1 John 2:15)
3. You do not trust the world or its riches (Mark 10:24-25, 1 Tim 6:17, and John 17:14)

In the parable of the prodigal son, Luke 15:11, both the KJV and NASB state in verses 24 and 32 that the son was dead. This "death" exemplifies leaving his father's house or domain and going to a far country and engaging in loose and riotous living "Dead in trespasses and sin" (Eph 2:1). The far country is the world and loose and riotous living is the world's lifestyle. Paul, in Gal 6:14, says that by the cross he is dead to the world and the world is dead to him. Col 2:20, speaks of having died to the elementary principles of the world. And, in Gal 2:20, Paul testifies that he "has been" crucified with Christ. Notice the importance of the CROSS of CHRIST.

To say that you are born-again or born from above is to say that you have given up or let go of the world. You have separated yourself from it. It is no longer an idol in your heart. This is the greatest expression of faith toward God that you can exercise. The term "world" means realm, domain, kingdom and it encompasses everything that is in the world. So, we are in the world, but not of the world.

1John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Death to this domain means that by faith you have separated yourself from the natural world you are living in and awaiting the establishing of the Kingdom of God. You are also participating, actively in the establishment of the Kingdom of God. First in your heart and then as a servant and minister of the Lord.

1 Peter 2:9-11 says, "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;"

So, anyone that claims to be born again and yet is controlled by the LUST OF THE FLESH, THE LUST OF THE EYES and the BOASTFUL PRIDE OF LIFE is deceived. The new birth comes as a result of being convicted by the WORD and Holy Spirit that you are a part of the world and that you are motivated by self-centeredness, greediness and pleasure-seeking. He will not allow anyone to become a member of the Body of Christ or the Kingdom of God who does not turn from the world, which is where these things operate. Godly sorrow will begin to stir in your heart causing you to turn from these things (repent) and the cleansing power of the Holy Spirit will come on your and in you.

THIS IS WHAT BEING BORN AGAIN IS!!

Axehead

Bowing out gracefully.
Couppy.

 

[Axehead]

Beware the Leaven of the Pharisees (Which is Hypocrisy)​

Hypocrisy: the act or practice of pretending to be what one is not, or to feel what one does not feel.

What is commonly being called "grace" today is an excuse for hypocrisy to exist in people who confess to be Christians. Hypocrites have a place assigned to them in eternity. It is not with the Father and Jesus. It is with the wicked and Satan. I have even heard someone describe to me, with great emotion and conviction, the way Jesus' blood "covers" a person so that God when He looks down on them, doesn't see the person's sin anymore, but just sees the blood of Jesus. Sin is OK, because God can't see it and now we get to go to heaven someday. That entire concept did not come from the WORD of GOD, but from a CARNAL MIND. God does forgive sin, and even makes exceeding great and precious promises to those who forsake the world and sin. God does not, however, pretend that something is one way when it really is another.

GOD IS NOT A PRETENDER!!​

If God was a pretender, He'd be a liar, and there is no lie found in Him. In fact, liars also have a place assigned them in eternity, and it is nowhere near God.



Revelation 22:15

For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

This is substantiated in the New Testament as well as the Old Testament. Jesus Christ's appearance on the earth did not change the character and nature of God. He has never been able to fellowship with sin and He still can't and won't. Light cannot have fellowship with darkness. God cast Adam and Eve out of HIS PRESENCE because of sin. God warned them and they were disobedient anyway and God kept His promise to them. He cast them out!! He also destroyed everyone on earth because of sin (except for Noah and his family). He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because of sin; He destroyed many of the children of Israel as they wandered in the wilderness because of sin/rebellion/unbelief/disobedience. He sent prophet after prophet to His people, and told them to repent (turn from and forsake their sinful ways), and return to Him. When they would not, destruction and disaster came to all of them who would not repent. In fact, judgement and destruction are still promised to those who are disobedient and rebellious to Him.

The Apostles and the first Christians didn't pretend they were one with Christ when they were not, did they? Well, except for Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5). Was God ignoring their spiritual condition when He struck them dead? Why weren't their past, present and future sins "COVERED"? There is strong indication that God has a definite point of view about being HONEST and SINCERE.

The Holy Spirit is making an appeal to the people of God to be REAL and HONEST about their spiritual condition, AND TO FORSAKE THE WORLD AND THE RELIGION THAT HAS CAUSED THEM TO BE DECEIVED ABOUT THEIR RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM. These last days are perilous and wickedness abounds. Jesus came to deliver us from sin and we don't have to live in it any longer - we can leave it and turn to, trust in, and rely on Him.

"When the righteous turneth away from his righteousness and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby. But if the wicked turn from his wickedness and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby" (Eze 33:17-19).

JESUS CHRIST, the SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY and FOREVER​

Axehead

 

[Trekson]

Hi Axehead, I agree with most of what you wrote but I think you have a misunderstanding of Grace. You really can't go by Annanias and Sapphira because as far as we know, it was a one time event and the scripture tells us specifically what their sin was. Do some christians abuse grace because of their misunderstanding as you exampled? Absolutely, but I wouldn't consider it a common theme among Christiandom. The fact of what grace does, from your post: " the way Jesus' blood "covers" a person so that God when He looks down on them, doesn't see the person's sin anymore, but just sees the blood of Jesus," is absolute truth but only when we apply it by repentance and seeking forgiveness for a sin even if it's for the thoudsandth time. To believe that honest to goodness christians never sin is naive and not honest. While we may try not to sin, all of us sin in one way or another at least every few days.

Being born again doesn't mean one will never sin again, it is a fresh start with our new inner man, however, just as our physical bodies can break down through sickness, disease, broken bones, etc., so can our spiritual man because we are not spiritually incorruptible yet. The beauty of God is that He doesn't demand that everyone adapt to His way at the same time in the same way. He deals with us as individuals, not a collective. He might deliver someone with a drinking problem immediately upon salvation or He might want another person to learn something from the battle of overcoming. If one never suffers defeat at times, one won't appreciate the journey to becoming an overcomer. We are at war and while we lose the battle with temptation sometimes, we have Christ's assurance that we will win the war.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Trekson,

Absolutely, but I wouldn't consider it a common theme among Christiandom. The fact of what grace does, from your post: " the way Jesus' blood "covers" a person so that God when He looks down on them, doesn't see the person's sin anymore, but just sees the blood of Jesus," is absolute truth but only when we apply it by repentance and seeking forgiveness for a sin even if it's for the thoudsandth time.

I few weeks ago I would have said something similar, but there are several on this forum who believe this - that future sins are already forgiven, forgiveness for sins does not have to be sought as the occasion arises, forgiveness of sins occurs without repentance on the part of the sinner, and that there is no sin which can incur God's future wrath, because He has already poured out all His wrath for sin upon Jesus on the cross.

This is all part of their particular brand of OSAS.

Another thing which goes with this school of unbiblical thought, is that Romans 4:15 applies to Christians. One can safely assume that if only a few people on the internet believe these things, there could be very many more out there in the real world.