Nice post
Even folks with bi-polar can live without sin by the Holy Spirit of Christ in them I'm happy to report
It is amazing how that folks love to put the blame on God's impotence for their inability to cease sinning. What a cop out eh?
Amen!
I am crucified with Christ - The Word for the Healing of the Body, Today.
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Nice post
Even folks with bi-polar can live without sin by the Holy Spirit of Christ in them I'm happy to report
It is amazing how that folks love to put the blame on God's impotence for their inability to cease sinning. What a cop out eh?
Amen!
Nice post
Even folks with bi-polar can live without sin by the Holy Spirit of Christ in them I'm happy to report
It is amazing how that folks love to put the blame on God's impotence for their inability to cease sinning. What a cop out eh?
Amen!
We were talking to these people the other day and one of the women said something along the lines of how we will always be sinners and it made another guy stop in his tracks, it was like an ephiphany for him and he said, "but the Word tells us we are overcomers" - he never believed we could overcome sin until that moment in time. It was like his eyes were opened up in that very second, it was cool to see.
God bless you, Whitestone!
JohnnyB and others: Johnny, your words - "You said "Even the Holy Spirit within us can't stop us from sinning because we are still in our mortal, corruptible bodies" - I do not want to go above and beyond my comprehension of this statement, but it sounds to me like you are saying the Holy Spirit is unable and not strong enough to keep us from sin. Is that what you are saying? Just to clarify."
That is not what I am saying at all. The responsibility is 100% ours. Yes, God provides a way to escape but that doesn't mean we always look for it, find it, or even want to see it at the moment of temptation., My point is we all fail and those that choose to ignore that fact are willfully ignorant and will have a slew of unrepented sins to account for at judgment day. They are not being honest with themselves or are in error believing Christ makes all sin instantly disappear by His death on the cross.
Those who refuse to believe it's a process that will continue until we die or are raptured will be in for a sorry day if they even make it before Christ with all that unrepented sin on their conscience. Yes, praise God we can be overcomers and I'm happy to report that I may have become an overcomer in a couple of thousand ways but there are still several thousand ways in which I still need to learn how to overcome, some of which I'm aware of and much that Christ hasn't shown me yet.
The most dangerous position for a believer to be in is to "be comfortable in their walk with with Christ". That shows me they have stopped "growing in Christ". They think the race is won but in reality they haven't really begun.
That is not what I am saying at all. The responsibility is 100% ours. Yes, God provides a way to escape but that doesn't mean we always look for it, find it, or even want to see it at the moment of temptation., My point is we all fail and those that choose to ignore that fact are willfully ignorant and will have a slew of unrepented sins to account for at judgment day. They are not being honest with themselves or are in error believing Christ makes all sin instantly disappear by His death on the cross.
Those who refuse to believe it's a process that will continue until we die or are raptured will be in for a sorry day if they even make it before Christ with all that unrepented sin on their conscience. Yes, praise God we can be overcomers and I'm happy to report that I may have become an overcomer in a couple of thousand ways but there are still several thousand ways in which I still need to learn how to overcome, some of which I'm aware of and much that Christ hasn't shown me yet.
The most dangerous position for a believer to be in is to "be comfortable in their walk with with Christ". That shows me they have stopped "growing in Christ". They think the race is won but in reality they haven't really begun.
Prentis
New Member
Amen!
AMEN! Spoken by the Spirit! Good post brother...
Many here are using and twisting the word so as to shift the balance and exalt the power of the flesh over the power of the Spirit... But this is the opposite of what the word is truly communicating. The word preaches that by the new nature we overcome the old and it's tendencies... Not that we receive a new nature, but that it is powerless to overcome! That is the gospel of unbelief.
For all who have eyes to see, the gospel of unbelief and powerlessness in Christ is pitted against the gospel of new life and victory in Christ right here on the forum! May those who see be encouraged... And those who are blind granted sight!
When Christ called us into repentance and we repented, that was for our past sins. If we sin now, we repent, I think we're on the same page there.
I agree, it is a process, it takes practice. If we continue to learn how to walk in the Spirit, as we are decreasing and He is increasing, our sins WILL become less and less. If there is sin He has not revealed to us, then we ask Him to reveal those and we ask for forgiveness. If we are truly following the Spirit, it is one of progression, improvement, continually persevering - not digression as what it seems people are saying. We are more than conquerors in Christ yet what we hear is "we are sinners" - no, we are conquerors, able to overcome all evil desires - with His divine nature living in us. He is why we are able to do this.
I agree. Paul tells us to continually make sure we remain in the faith. We are called into the race, now we have to run.
Amen!
AMEN! Spoken by the Spirit! Good post brother...
Many here are using and twisting the word so as to shift the balance and exalt the power of the flesh over the power of the Spirit... But this is the opposite of what the word is truly communicating. The word preaches that by the new nature we overcome the old and it's tendencies... Not that we receive a new nature, but that it is powerless to overcome! That is the gospel of unbelief.
Yes, this is exactly it, Prentis! It is denying the power of the Holy Spirit to conqueor fleshly desires, that somehow our flesh is stronger than God!
Hi Trekson, Prentis and JohnnyB,
Good posts, all.
Trekson, you mentioned an interesting word - 'conscience' - in respect of sin. This is something I wonder about in those who claim they have 'positional righteousness' in Christ - imputed righteousness - regardless of whether they sin or not.
There is an interesting mix amongst those with this stance, all of whom seem to be aware of 'sins', but whose various attitudes wreak havoc with the apostles' teachings on repentance to God and forgiveness from God, and, to Jesus' many teachings on right relationships between believers and others.
An additional wrong teaching enables these false doctrines on how to deal with awareness of active sin in a Christian's life, to get a real foothold. This wrong teaching states that because of 'grace', there is 'now no law'. There are a couple of verses in the NT where Paul is referring to the time before the law (of Moses) which are used to validate this stance, and to extrapolate it way beyond scripture to the conclusion that if there is 'now no law', then sin can never be imputed to a believer! Othere select verses are used to back this up.
What I'm learning again is, that the moment any single point in doctrine becomes separated from the whole biblical narrative with its full original meaning and doctrinal statements and interpretations of prophecy from Jesus Christ and His apostles, there is serious meltdown in the cohesion of the gospel as a working vehicle for the dependable salvation of souls - as scripture defines 'salvation'.
That is, unless their initial coming to God through Christ was true, and through their obedience to the leading of the Holy Spirit they are gradually drawn away from all error and mixture. His sheep hear His voice. I've met several online who testify of such a deliverance. Praise the Lord! May we be used to help disentangle fact from fiction.
Good posts, all.
Trekson, you mentioned an interesting word - 'conscience' - in respect of sin. This is something I wonder about in those who claim they have 'positional righteousness' in Christ - imputed righteousness - regardless of whether they sin or not.
There is an interesting mix amongst those with this stance, all of whom seem to be aware of 'sins', but whose various attitudes wreak havoc with the apostles' teachings on repentance to God and forgiveness from God, and, to Jesus' many teachings on right relationships between believers and others.
An additional wrong teaching enables these false doctrines on how to deal with awareness of active sin in a Christian's life, to get a real foothold. This wrong teaching states that because of 'grace', there is 'now no law'. There are a couple of verses in the NT where Paul is referring to the time before the law (of Moses) which are used to validate this stance, and to extrapolate it way beyond scripture to the conclusion that if there is 'now no law', then sin can never be imputed to a believer! Othere select verses are used to back this up.
What I'm learning again is, that the moment any single point in doctrine becomes separated from the whole biblical narrative with its full original meaning and doctrinal statements and interpretations of prophecy from Jesus Christ and His apostles, there is serious meltdown in the cohesion of the gospel as a working vehicle for the dependable salvation of souls - as scripture defines 'salvation'.
That is, unless their initial coming to God through Christ was true, and through their obedience to the leading of the Holy Spirit they are gradually drawn away from all error and mixture. His sheep hear His voice. I've met several online who testify of such a deliverance. Praise the Lord! May we be used to help disentangle fact from fiction.
Hi Trekson, Prentis and JohnnyB,
Good posts, all.
Trekson, you mentioned an interesting word - 'conscience' - in respect of sin. This is something I wonder about in those who claim they have 'positional righteousness' in Christ - imputed righteousness - regardless of whether they sin or not.
There is an interesting mix amongst those with this stance, all of whom seem to be aware of 'sins', but whose various attitudes wreak havoc with the apostles' teachings on repentance to God and forgiveness from God, and, to Jesus' many teachings on right relationships between believers and others.
An additional wrong teaching enables these false doctrines on how to deal with awareness of active sin in a Christian's life, to get a real foothold. This wrong teaching states that because of 'grace', there is 'now no law'. There are a couple of verses in the NT where Paul is referring to the time before the law (of Moses) which are used to validate this stance, and to extrapolate it way beyond scripture to the conclusion that if there is 'now no law', then sin can never be imputed to a believer! Othere select verses are used to back this up.
What I'm learning again is, that the moment any single point in doctrine becomes separated from the whole biblical narrative with its full original meaning and doctrinal statements and interpretations of prophecy from Jesus Christ and His apostles, there is serious meltdown in the cohesion of the gospel as a working vehicle for the dependable salvation of souls - as scripture defines 'salvation'.
That is, unless their initial coming to God through Christ was true, and through their obedience to the leading of the Holy Spirit they are gradually drawn away from all error and mixture. His sheep hear His voice. I've met several online who testify of such a deliverance. Praise the Lord! May we be used to help disentangle fact from fiction.
Very good D. I tried to rep you but it seems my quota is full!
For clarification purposes when I speak of sinning, I'm not talking about "obvious" sins like adultery, drunkenness or stealing. We know the word "sin" means lawlessness but another definition of sin is "missing the mark". What is our mark or target, if you prefer? It's to act like Christ in every situation and we "miss the mark" when we fail to do so. In every situation the fruits of the spirit, should be evident in our life. However, if we are honest with ourselves we can bring to mind several instances when we failed to do so. When we fail, when we "miss the mark", it's a sin. As we are in a growing process from babes in Christ to a maturity of spirit, we will constantly stumble along the "way". By faith we can appropriate mercy, forgiveness, grace and finally victory...until the next time we stumble and then the process begins again. Yes, we "can be" more than conquerors by faith, but to become a conqueror is still a process. It's not an instantaneous event upon conversion.
To those who might have forgotten, the fruits of the spirit are: Gal. 5:22-23 - "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [sup]23 [/sup]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."
I can tell you right now that there are several "posters" Whitestone and Episkopos among them who fail to operate in the above fruits of the spirit "arena". When you reply in a discussion with snide remarks, exaggeration, purposely misunderstanding a point of view just for the sake of argument, name calling, judgment, leaping to conclusions, etc., you are "missing the mark" which is sin. So until we can say we are as perfect as Christ, no one is sinless, but we will sin less as we grow in Christ.
There are too many phrases like, running the race, fighting the fight, engaging in spiritual warfare to assume the battle is won already. We know that ultimately victory will be ours but if we think the battle is over, we have already won and we are as sinless and perfect as Christ is, then we will be woefully unprepared for the coming great trib on Christ's church.
To those who might have forgotten, the fruits of the spirit are: Gal. 5:22-23 - "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [sup]23 [/sup]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."
I can tell you right now that there are several "posters" Whitestone and Episkopos among them who fail to operate in the above fruits of the spirit "arena". When you reply in a discussion with snide remarks, exaggeration, purposely misunderstanding a point of view just for the sake of argument, name calling, judgment, leaping to conclusions, etc., you are "missing the mark" which is sin. So until we can say we are as perfect as Christ, no one is sinless, but we will sin less as we grow in Christ.
There are too many phrases like, running the race, fighting the fight, engaging in spiritual warfare to assume the battle is won already. We know that ultimately victory will be ours but if we think the battle is over, we have already won and we are as sinless and perfect as Christ is, then we will be woefully unprepared for the coming great trib on Christ's church.
Hi Trekson,
Points taken. May we all grow in the grace that enables us to behave as maturing sons of God.
.
Hi Episkopos,
Thanks.
Tomorrow's another day!
Points taken. May we all grow in the grace that enables us to behave as maturing sons of God.
.
Hi Episkopos,
Very good D. I tried to rep you but it seems my quota is full!
Thanks.
Tomorrow's another day!
You accuse me of sin Trekson? Missing the mark? Failing to operate in the fruits of the spirit "arena". You, a sinner, accuse me of sinning?
Copy and paste it. Have I sinned against you? Against someone else here? If it is true, I will repent.
There is nothing I've posted that is not of Christ that I know of. There is nothing that Epi has posted either that is not of Christ.
Of course, the devil always claims he is wronged when rebuked.
I rebuke you right now for your false accusation against a brother and others and against me trekkson. Be it made known before Heaven and earth right this moment,
You are a false accuser sir.
I've never used snideness. I've been clear and succinct straight up.
I never misunderstand what is being said, either accidently nor purposefully. I have no ulterior agenda. Only the Agenda of Christ Jesus the King of Israel.
I loathe arguing, I do not seek an argument. I turn off those who are argumentative.
Nor do I resort in name calling.
Only those I've rebuked for being abusive and preaching false doctrine have I dealt with, and I dealt with them in the Spirit of Christ, using His Words.
However, you have just sinned against Epi and others you indict, and myself for your false accusation and I ask for your acknowledgement and repentance and I will forgive you and your sins will be forgiven before my Father in Heaven.
Whitestone
(Rev 12:10) And I heard a great voice in heaven, saying, Now is come the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accuseth them before our God day and night.
The "accuser" is always the "devil".
It is someone who hates the message of the Gospel because it interferes with pushing their private doctrine.
The doctrine that men continue to "sin" or "miss the mark" while in Christ, is a false doctrine of the devil.
The fact that a person "sins" is the symptom that something is terribly wrong with our commitment to Christ, or our theology is wrong, or a mix of both.
The modern theology that no matter what, Christians continue to sin, has been shown every day I've been here, by Episkopos, Axehead, Dragonfly and also Son of Man, to be a false doctrine, an unscriptural teaching.
It is a teaching of the devil only. It is not of Christ. It offers no hope. It only offers sin and death. No 'power' in that "gospel".
To find one's self sinning after laying down one's life for Christ, is a warning buzzer that something is wrong. Very very wrong.
Ask for the Holy Spirit of the perfect Light of Christ Himself to COME.
He will.
Then, every idle word, every evil thought, will be immediately tackled and bound by the Victorious Christ in us! He is a Wall, a fortress, a Generalissimo! He is the Conqueror who will destroy your carnal minded tendencies to further "miss the mark" and He will reorganize values, goals, thoughts, words, deeds... our entire motos operandi changes! We die to self, let Jesus Come, and guess what, just as scriptures says, a man will find himself become sinless! First forgiven, then empowered to work Righteousness, not of our dead selves, but of our Living Risen Spirit of Christ Jesus within us.
This is The Gospel.
It is 100% complete and totally fulfilled within us, who are totally sold out to Christ.
Only those who aren't sold out to Christ still sin.
Only those who still sin, tell others that they can't ever hope to live a life free from sin, just so that the sinner himself won't feel threatened, as they so obviously do on this forum, to the point where they ACCUSE those who preach righteousness, as sinners! Just like they did to Jesus! It is fascinating how predictable the devil is in his false accusations;
Rev 12:10) And I heard a great voice in heaven, saying, Now is come the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accuseth them before our God day and night.
(Joh 10:20) And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?
(Joh 9:24) So they called a second time the man that was blind, and said unto him, Give glory to God: we know that this man is a sinner.
(Joh 9:25) He therefore answered, Whether he be a sinner, I know not: one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see.
(Mat 26:59) Now the chief priests and the whole council sought false witness against Jesus, that they might put him to death;
(Gal 2:4) and that because of the false brethren privily brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
(1Jn 4:1) Beloved, believe not every spirit, but prove the spirits, whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
(Rev 2:2) I know thy works, and thy toil and patience, and that thou canst not bear evil men, and didst try them which call themselves apostles, and they are not, and didst find them false;
I salute you my brethren who toil in patience, "trying" them which call themselves teachers and are not but are false. Keep the faith, keep the Spirit of righteousness though they accuse you of sin. For your Father in Heaven knows your works, for they are manifest in the backdrop against the vessels of dishonor, created for this very purpose even in this day.
Peace in Christ,
Whitestone
Whitestone: Your words - "The other is one of those who calls themselves a "sinner saved by grace". They teach that it is ok to sin now and again, that nothing can be done about it, that 'grace' will take care of it.
The one has eternal Life.
The other is admittedly crucifying the Lord afresh "every few days or so" and their end is broadcast before them for everyone to see.
It is amazing how that folks love to put the blame on God's impotence for their inability to cease sinning. What a cop out eh?
These are just two on this topic alone and if I researched other topics I'm sure a bevy of them would be found.
In your latest reply: The modern theology that no matter what, Christians continue to sin, has been shown every day I've been here, by Episkopos, Axehead, Dragonfly and also Son of Man, to be a false doctrine, an unscriptural teaching...
is itself a presumed judgment and it is a far cry from a false doctrine. Your presumed earnestness to defend what I believe is a false gospel leads you to a verbal "righteous indignation" and your accusations as far as my motivations are concerned are plain for everyone to see. You may see yourself blameless but since I am the one accused of being: a false teacher, that it's OK to sin (something I never said or implied), a "cop out", you might see things differently.
You can quote scripture all you want but when you say you never sin and look down on me as a "sinner saved by grace", your words: "You, a sinner, accuse me of sinning", as if it's something unnatural for a sinner to call a self-righteous man, the same thing. It's not an insult, it's just a reality whether you want to admit to it or not.
One more thing Whitestone, our exchange reminds me of a story Christ told. It's found in Luke 18:10-14 - "Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. [sup]11 [/sup]The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. [sup]12 [/sup]I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
[sup]13 [/sup]And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
[sup]14 [/sup]I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."
Three more verses I want to share. Remember John is talking to believers here. 1 John 1:8-10 - "
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [sup]9 [/sup]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[sup]10 [/sup]If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
The one has eternal Life.
The other is admittedly crucifying the Lord afresh "every few days or so" and their end is broadcast before them for everyone to see.
It is amazing how that folks love to put the blame on God's impotence for their inability to cease sinning. What a cop out eh?
These are just two on this topic alone and if I researched other topics I'm sure a bevy of them would be found.
In your latest reply: The modern theology that no matter what, Christians continue to sin, has been shown every day I've been here, by Episkopos, Axehead, Dragonfly and also Son of Man, to be a false doctrine, an unscriptural teaching...
is itself a presumed judgment and it is a far cry from a false doctrine. Your presumed earnestness to defend what I believe is a false gospel leads you to a verbal "righteous indignation" and your accusations as far as my motivations are concerned are plain for everyone to see. You may see yourself blameless but since I am the one accused of being: a false teacher, that it's OK to sin (something I never said or implied), a "cop out", you might see things differently.
You can quote scripture all you want but when you say you never sin and look down on me as a "sinner saved by grace", your words: "You, a sinner, accuse me of sinning", as if it's something unnatural for a sinner to call a self-righteous man, the same thing. It's not an insult, it's just a reality whether you want to admit to it or not.
One more thing Whitestone, our exchange reminds me of a story Christ told. It's found in Luke 18:10-14 - "Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. [sup]11 [/sup]The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. [sup]12 [/sup]I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
[sup]13 [/sup]And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
[sup]14 [/sup]I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."
Three more verses I want to share. Remember John is talking to believers here. 1 John 1:8-10 - "
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [sup]9 [/sup]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[sup]10 [/sup]If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
Hi Trekson,
Hebrews 10:14 sets out the basis of all our actions. We are complete in Christ. We are seated with Christ. These are spiritually true in heaven - or Sion. No Christian should be claiming they have never sinned, but the truth - Jesus Christ in us by the Holy Spirit - shows us how to purify ourselves 1 JOhn 3:3 practically speaking, as we walk in the light as He is in the light, fellowshipping with one another, and being cleansed inwardly by His blood, from all sin. This, too, is the faith of God in operation Eph 3:7 in the lives of those who have genuinely been grafted into Christ's death.
If you read the beginning of Hebrews 12 in detail, the sin is not inside us, it is outside us, attracting us, tempting us to obey it in our flesh. As we resist those temptations, we are demonstrating victory over sin, and, that our hearts are free from sin.
This freedom from the power of sin is the main thing Jesus accomplished on the cross when He destroyed the devil without, Himself, ever having sinned in His flesh. Romans 8:3, 1 Pet 2:24. He expects us to walk in that real liberty, focusing on Him.
Hebrews 10:14 sets out the basis of all our actions. We are complete in Christ. We are seated with Christ. These are spiritually true in heaven - or Sion. No Christian should be claiming they have never sinned, but the truth - Jesus Christ in us by the Holy Spirit - shows us how to purify ourselves 1 JOhn 3:3 practically speaking, as we walk in the light as He is in the light, fellowshipping with one another, and being cleansed inwardly by His blood, from all sin. This, too, is the faith of God in operation Eph 3:7 in the lives of those who have genuinely been grafted into Christ's death.
If you read the beginning of Hebrews 12 in detail, the sin is not inside us, it is outside us, attracting us, tempting us to obey it in our flesh. As we resist those temptations, we are demonstrating victory over sin, and, that our hearts are free from sin.
This freedom from the power of sin is the main thing Jesus accomplished on the cross when He destroyed the devil without, Himself, ever having sinned in His flesh. Romans 8:3, 1 Pet 2:24. He expects us to walk in that real liberty, focusing on Him.
Hi Dragonfly, I appreciate the courteousness of your reply. Your words: "We are complete in Christ. We are seated with Christ."
Yes, but we appropriate that by faith. The key is understanding Heb. 11:1 - " Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
We "will" be complete, we "will be seated with Christ. The only way that is a reality is by faith. In this conversation, our completeness and our seat with Christ = the substance of things hoped for. Believing it to be real in our lives = the evidence of things not seen.
Your words: "If you read the beginning of Hebrews 12 in detail, the sin is not inside us, it is outside us, attracting us, tempting us to obey it in our flesh. As we resist those temptations, we are demonstrating victory over sin, and, that our hearts are free from sin.
I respectfully disagree. Our basic sin nature and our "old man" are two different things. The basic sin nature is part of being human and we won't be rid of it until we receive our glorified bodies or our earthly body dies while our spirit moves on to heaven. The old man is "who we were" as an unbeliever. Our old self interest, our old priorities, our old way of sinning, our character, etc. Our "new man" is born because of salvation and as we grow spiritually, all the things of our old nature begin to change.
There are many ways that 1 Cor. 10:36 doesn't apply because once we're mature in Christ, Satan kinda stops the "obvious" temptations like lust, greed, coveting, etc. Instead, he likes to blindside us with different problems to see if we handle things in a Christ-like manner. Usually, they're not recognizable as your typical temptations and "a way to escape" never occurs to you. From my many years of observations I would say that most of these take place in the family setting. Sassiness from your daughter, fights with your spouse, the teen-age years in general, unexpected deaths, your daughter gets pregnant, taking family members for granted, forgetting that they are part of the church as well.
Many people don't realize that if their loved ones are saved too that they should be treated with the same respect and courtesy as the rest of the Body of Christ. As these unexpected situations occur most people fail to act like Christ, in the moment, and their response is generally sinful (not like Christ). The maturer ones will repent and ask forgiveness from God and the person they "went off on", but there are literally thousands of other ways these unexpected "problems" arise and we can't prepare for them all.
While we may be "free" from the "power" of sin, we will always have those moments of failure to act like Christ. We can start each day fresh and sinless but eventually, when we're not paying attention...BOOM!!! Satan blindsides us and in most cases, you'll react unChrist-like and there is nothing wrong with that, we are only human and that is when 1 John 1:9 applies. Hopefully though, we'll remember and try to react differently the next time.
Yes, but we appropriate that by faith. The key is understanding Heb. 11:1 - " Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
We "will" be complete, we "will be seated with Christ. The only way that is a reality is by faith. In this conversation, our completeness and our seat with Christ = the substance of things hoped for. Believing it to be real in our lives = the evidence of things not seen.
Your words: "If you read the beginning of Hebrews 12 in detail, the sin is not inside us, it is outside us, attracting us, tempting us to obey it in our flesh. As we resist those temptations, we are demonstrating victory over sin, and, that our hearts are free from sin.
I respectfully disagree. Our basic sin nature and our "old man" are two different things. The basic sin nature is part of being human and we won't be rid of it until we receive our glorified bodies or our earthly body dies while our spirit moves on to heaven. The old man is "who we were" as an unbeliever. Our old self interest, our old priorities, our old way of sinning, our character, etc. Our "new man" is born because of salvation and as we grow spiritually, all the things of our old nature begin to change.
There are many ways that 1 Cor. 10:36 doesn't apply because once we're mature in Christ, Satan kinda stops the "obvious" temptations like lust, greed, coveting, etc. Instead, he likes to blindside us with different problems to see if we handle things in a Christ-like manner. Usually, they're not recognizable as your typical temptations and "a way to escape" never occurs to you. From my many years of observations I would say that most of these take place in the family setting. Sassiness from your daughter, fights with your spouse, the teen-age years in general, unexpected deaths, your daughter gets pregnant, taking family members for granted, forgetting that they are part of the church as well.
Many people don't realize that if their loved ones are saved too that they should be treated with the same respect and courtesy as the rest of the Body of Christ. As these unexpected situations occur most people fail to act like Christ, in the moment, and their response is generally sinful (not like Christ). The maturer ones will repent and ask forgiveness from God and the person they "went off on", but there are literally thousands of other ways these unexpected "problems" arise and we can't prepare for them all.
While we may be "free" from the "power" of sin, we will always have those moments of failure to act like Christ. We can start each day fresh and sinless but eventually, when we're not paying attention...BOOM!!! Satan blindsides us and in most cases, you'll react unChrist-like and there is nothing wrong with that, we are only human and that is when 1 John 1:9 applies. Hopefully though, we'll remember and try to react differently the next time.
The way to prepare for all sin is to walk in the Spirit. By doing this you shall not do those deeds. The old sin nature IS the old man...this needs to die in order to release the new nature to take over.
By faith we walk in newness of life NOW. We HOPE for the redemption of the body...but the renewal of the soul life is NOW. We will be judged on this as in the parable of the talents. How profitable are we being with the grace God has given us?
False Sons and True Sons
"Wherefore. . let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with. patience the race that is set before us, LOOKING UNTO JESUS, the author and finisher of our faith;... For consider Him that endured such contradiction of sinners against Himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.... My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of Him: for whom the Lord loveth, He chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom He receiveth" (Heb. 12:1-3, 5, 6).
When we repent and come to the Lord with a whole heart, He places a hedge around us so that we walk in peace. Should We find ourselves not walking in peace, the powers of darkness are attacking us. The hedge has been removed because of some sin which has broken God's commandment of love (His law). This is God's discipline and reproof on a Christian who sins. A Christian will want to repent, so he asks the Holy Spirit what sin he has committed, because a true believer loves Jesus more than any sin. The Holy Spirit, at some point, will reveal to US the sin. Then, because of the cross and the blood of Jesus, because of Jesus Christ's victory over sin, and because He became our sacrifice for sin, the blood of Jesus will cleanse us from this sin. We are then forgiven, and we are no longer transgressors of God's law. The powers of darkness have no more ground, so they have to back off and the hedge of protection and peace returns.
As we learn to walk (mature) in the blessings and peace of God, we become more and more sensitive about avoiding sin. This is the discipline that leads us to purify our hearts and love others as Jesus has loved us: "If ye endure chastening, God, dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? BUT IF YE BE WITHOUT CHASTISEMENT, WHEREOF ALL ARE PARTAKERS, THEN ARE YE BASTARDS, AND NOT SONS" (Heb. 12:7, 8).
False sons refuse to give up their love for the flesh nature of Satan. They devise ways to enter heaven without denying their flesh. They justify themselves with their form of godliness because they still love the world and the flesh. They are not led by the Spirit of God. This is the fallen away church today. False sons do not know about this peace of God, nor do they know about the fear of God. Since they walk in a false security, they do not know they have to purify their hearts. Therefore, as they continually break God's law, the powers of darkness are able to bring more and more bondage, until they are destroyed; all because they did not choose the nature of God (walk in the Spirit). "Such as sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, being bound in affliction and iron; because they rebelled against the words of God, and contemned the counsel of the most High: Therefore He brought down their hearts with labour; they fell down and there was none to help. Fools because of their transgression, and because of their iniquities, are afflicted" (Ps. 107:10, 11, 17).
"Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of Spirits, and live (eternally)? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but He for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness (have a pure heart)" (Heb. 12:9, 10).
We are obedient children led by the Spirit of God to be perfected in love and holiness: "As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: but as he which hath called you is holy, SO BE YE HOLY IN ALL MANNER OF CONVERSATION; because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, PASS THE TIME OF YOUR SOJOURNING HERE IN FEAR (that ye may not be destroyed)" (1 Pet. 1:14-17).
Axehead
"Wherefore. . let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with. patience the race that is set before us, LOOKING UNTO JESUS, the author and finisher of our faith;... For consider Him that endured such contradiction of sinners against Himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.... My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of Him: for whom the Lord loveth, He chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom He receiveth" (Heb. 12:1-3, 5, 6).
When we repent and come to the Lord with a whole heart, He places a hedge around us so that we walk in peace. Should We find ourselves not walking in peace, the powers of darkness are attacking us. The hedge has been removed because of some sin which has broken God's commandment of love (His law). This is God's discipline and reproof on a Christian who sins. A Christian will want to repent, so he asks the Holy Spirit what sin he has committed, because a true believer loves Jesus more than any sin. The Holy Spirit, at some point, will reveal to US the sin. Then, because of the cross and the blood of Jesus, because of Jesus Christ's victory over sin, and because He became our sacrifice for sin, the blood of Jesus will cleanse us from this sin. We are then forgiven, and we are no longer transgressors of God's law. The powers of darkness have no more ground, so they have to back off and the hedge of protection and peace returns.
As we learn to walk (mature) in the blessings and peace of God, we become more and more sensitive about avoiding sin. This is the discipline that leads us to purify our hearts and love others as Jesus has loved us: "If ye endure chastening, God, dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? BUT IF YE BE WITHOUT CHASTISEMENT, WHEREOF ALL ARE PARTAKERS, THEN ARE YE BASTARDS, AND NOT SONS" (Heb. 12:7, 8).
False sons refuse to give up their love for the flesh nature of Satan. They devise ways to enter heaven without denying their flesh. They justify themselves with their form of godliness because they still love the world and the flesh. They are not led by the Spirit of God. This is the fallen away church today. False sons do not know about this peace of God, nor do they know about the fear of God. Since they walk in a false security, they do not know they have to purify their hearts. Therefore, as they continually break God's law, the powers of darkness are able to bring more and more bondage, until they are destroyed; all because they did not choose the nature of God (walk in the Spirit). "Such as sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, being bound in affliction and iron; because they rebelled against the words of God, and contemned the counsel of the most High: Therefore He brought down their hearts with labour; they fell down and there was none to help. Fools because of their transgression, and because of their iniquities, are afflicted" (Ps. 107:10, 11, 17).
"Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of Spirits, and live (eternally)? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but He for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness (have a pure heart)" (Heb. 12:9, 10).
We are obedient children led by the Spirit of God to be perfected in love and holiness: "As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: but as he which hath called you is holy, SO BE YE HOLY IN ALL MANNER OF CONVERSATION; because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, PASS THE TIME OF YOUR SOJOURNING HERE IN FEAR (that ye may not be destroyed)" (1 Pet. 1:14-17).
Axehead
Hi Axehead, I don't think this is a true statement: "When we repent and come to the Lord with a whole heart, He places a hedge around us so that we walk in peace. Should We find ourselves not walking in peace, the powers of darkness are attacking us. The hedge has been removed because of some sin which has broken God's commandment of love (His law)"
Imo, the way of a spirit filled believer is one of constant spiritual warfare, if not on our own behalf then on behalf of others. Eph. 6:12 - "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
This is our warfare, not God's. With His help we will be "more than conquerors" but the battle must go on. If the powers of darkness aren't attacking us, then we're not being as effective believers as we should be.
Imo, the way of a spirit filled believer is one of constant spiritual warfare, if not on our own behalf then on behalf of others. Eph. 6:12 - "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
This is our warfare, not God's. With His help we will be "more than conquerors" but the battle must go on. If the powers of darkness aren't attacking us, then we're not being as effective believers as we should be.
Hi Dragonfly, I "believe" this for two main reasons. Imo, humanity received the basic sin nature in the garden of Eden. I believe it to be the "knowledge of good and evil" that resulted from Adam's sin. It became "imprinted" on humanity and that is why God drove them out of the garden instead of God restoring Adam to the way things were. Secondly, I believe this to be the reason God went "around" man to conceive a child with Mary. That was the only way for God to ensure that His seed would be totally blameless with spot or blemish. Utilizing a "good or holy" man like John the Baptist (just for an example) wouldn't have been sufficient because Christ would have been born with a basic nature thus disqualifying Him to be our "Perfect" sacrifice.
Hi Trekson,
Thanks for your reply, but I'm still unclear as to why you separate them, or, which is which in relation to either unbelievers or believers.
Thanks for your reply, but I'm still unclear as to why you separate them, or, which is which in relation to either unbelievers or believers.
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