How did Paganism get into the church?

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BlessedPeace

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Hello BlessedPeace,

who told you that? Not a Catholic, I'm sure..

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText


Pax et Bonum
 

Philip James

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Hello BlessedPeace,

Did you read that link?

“They could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it” (CCC 846, emphasis added).

Knowingly rejecting the offer of life is to condemn oneself. That means that if one were convinced that what the Catholic Church professes is True and knowingly rejected it they would be condemning themselves...

compare with this, from the catechism:

1790 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed.

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding Feast of the Lamb of God!

Pax et Bonum
 
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BlessedPeace

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Hello BlessedPeace,

Did you read that link?

“They could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it” (CCC 846, emphasis added).

Knowingly rejecting the offer of life is to condemn oneself. That means that if one were convinced that what the Catholic Church professes is True and knowingly rejected it they would be condemning themselves...

compare with this, from the catechism:

1790 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed.

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding Feast of the Lamb of God!

Pax et Bonum
I'm already at the table. My seating label is in its appointed place.Thank you. Look forward to seeing you at the table. :)

Btw,you actually confirmed my "only Catholics" prior observation. Thank you for that.
 

strepho

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2 Thessalonians 2:3-9
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

We see that Paul, in his second letter to the Thessalonians, foretold the great apostasy which would result in the establishment of AntiChrist power. He declared that before the return of Christ would, "come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who exalteth himself above all that is called God;" Even at that early date he saw, creeping into the church, errors in belief that would prepare the way for the false teachings to come in, and history confirmed how it happen.

Little by little, and then more openly as it increased in strength and gained control of believers, paganism and idol worship came into the church. Almost imperceptibly the traditions and customs of Pagan Rome found their way into the Christian church from the former center of the Empire and spread. It had been held back by the persecutions by the Roman Emperors, but as persecution ceased, and Christianity was accepted, the true church began to lay aside its humble beginnings and truth of Christ, for the rites, sacraments and pomp of ancient Rome and the practices of pagan priests and ancient heathen worship with its Babylonian/Greek/Roman gods inscribed with Christians names.

It crept in, then really gained momentum with Emperor Constantine, who tried to politically not to leave out or alienate those who practiced paganism after he claim to convert to Christianity. He declared the Bishop of Rome as the enforcer of truth and forced the merger of paganism into the church, and the heathen religion now cloaked with a 'christianized' cover, walked into the church. Paganism, while outwardly looking to like it was overcome by the church, became the one that vanquished. Pagan doctrines, ceremonies, and superstitions were incorporated into the faith and worship of the professed followers of Christ.

This compromise between paganism and Christianity resulted in the development of "the man of sin" foretold in prophecy as opposing and exalting himself above God. In the early church, the bishop of Rome, along with Alexandria and Antioch, was regarded as a Patriarchate, or an autonomous diocese. To this group was added the patriachates of Constantinople and Jerusalem in the fifth century. This group of five was regarded as leading the church as a whole. However, gaining political influence and claiming "historical events" saying the tradition that Peter and Paul had been martyred in Rome, the Bishop of Rome made himself first among equals. To secure worldly gains and honors, the church was led to seek the favor and support of the great men of earth; the church was forced to yield allegiance to the the bishop of Rome.

Many of the ancient people worshiped the sun and other pagan gods as they thought that their sun gods and fertility goddesses died at the winter solstice and regained life again at the spring equinox. Note what it says in Judges..
Judges 2:13
And they forsook the Lord, and served Baal and Ashtaroth.

But history shows that Baal worship is sun worship, and Ashtoreth/Ishtar/Astarte is the queen of heaven. This is why there are so many sunburst images in Catholicism and why Mary is called the 'Queen of Heaven', the church at Rome incorporated them slowly in. It is the apostasy of idol worship of Baal and Ashtaroth that had started to come into the church.

History shows that long before Mary, pagans fashioned Madonna and child icons and placed them in sacred shrines. Many believe that with the rise of Christianity and papal power, the Goddess would slowly disappear from western culture and fade away. But they didnt, the names and the images of the Madonna and child have changed, and spread. For many pagan 'converts', the blending of their ancient goddesses with the Virgin Mary was a major part of what allowed them to keep their pagan gods but get in the church.

The Bible would have quickly shown they had turned away into false beliefs so its truths had to be concealed and suppressed. For hundreds of years the circulation of the Bible was prohibited by the papacy. The people were forbidden to read it or to have it in their houses, and the Bible having been removed, the papacy moved quickly. To afford converts from heathenism a substitute for the worship of idols, and thus to promote their nominal acceptance of Christianity, the adoration of images and relics was gradually introduced into the Christian worship. To hide what they had done, Rome presumed to expunge from the law of God the second commandment in their writings, forbidding image worship, and to divide the tenth commandment, in order to preserve the number.

Then they went after the fourth commandment also, and essayed to set aside the Sabbath, and put in the festival day observed by the heathen as "the venerable day of the sun." With great subtlety the papacy worked to bring about this change. That the attention of the people might be called to the Sunday, it was made a festival in honor of the resurrection of Christ. Religious services were held upon it; yet it was regarded as a day of recreation, the Sabbath being still sacredly observed.

In the early part of the fourth century the emperor Constantine as part his merging of paganism with the church had issued a decree making Sunday a public festival throughout the Roman Empire. It was the emperor's policy to unite the conflicting interests of heathenism and Christianity, and he was urged to do this by the bishops of the church, who perceived that if the same day was observed by both Christians and heathen, it would promote the nominal acceptance of Christianity by pagans and thus advance the power and glory of the church. Thus the minds of the people were turned away from God to fallible, corruptible men who claimed to lead the church, and the Pope who came to regard himself as supreme, with the elevation of false laws and corrupt traditions that always results from setting aside the law of God.

We must read the Bible and cleanse ourselves from any of the paganism and false worship especially the pagan festivals or "Holy Days" that have been spread into many churches beliefs. The Protestant churches that split from and began the Reformation because they saw the truth and fought so hard against the pagan Papal Roman church are now falling one by one to even worse beliefs in secularism and paganism. Slowly but surely they are giving up the true beliefs that were their foundation untlil they become nothing but secular social clubs with pagan traditions and festivals.
Good job. I'm glad fellow Christian is speaking out against false doctrine and denominations.
 
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Wrangler

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We must read the Bible and cleanse ourselves from any of the paganism and false worship especially the pagan festivals or "Holy Days" that have been spread into many churches beliefs.
Great thread topic!

To answer your question, How did Paganism get into the church? It is the influence of culture, which is revealed by the question, does a fish know it is in water? Christianity spread into Pagan cultures and adopted existing holidays to assist in cultural assimilation. These include Christianities 2 biggest holy days, Christmas and Easter.

Another danger of culture is reading the Bible with our 21st century American sensibilities, imposing on it a take the authors never intended. It's not easy to "put your self in the mind of the author" but that is necessary for any ancient reading.
 
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The Learner

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interresting:

What is Article 841 of the Catholic Catechism?


841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."



Paragraph # 841 - Catechism of the Catholic Church​

 

The Learner

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Hello BlessedPeace,

Did you read that link?

“They could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it” (CCC 846, emphasis added).

Knowingly rejecting the offer of life is to condemn oneself. That means that if one were convinced that what the Catholic Church professes is True and knowingly rejected it they would be condemning themselves...

compare with this, from the catechism:

1790 A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience. If he were deliberately to act against it, he would condemn himself. Yet it can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed.

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding Feast of the Lamb of God!

Pax et Bonum
Invincible ignorance removes one’s culpability for a materially sinful act, whether one of omission or commission (CCC 1793). Vincible ignorance may affect one’s culpability for a sinful act, depending on the kind of vincibility. If some insufficient diligence was shown toward finding the answer, then the ignorance is termed merely vincible. If little or no diligence was shown, the ignorance is termed crass or supine. If one deliberately fostered the ignorance then it is termed affected or studied.https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/ignorance-invincible-and-vincible
 

The Learner

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Call no man father but your Father in Heaven.
Matthew 23
Genesis 4:21
Jabal was Jubal’s brother. Jubal was the father of people who play the harp and flute.

have you ever called your dad, father? The context must be beyond common use of father.

A Catholic might respond, “How do you refer to your mother’s husband? What do you call him?” If a Catholic is wrong in calling his priest “father,” then everyone who refers to his own natural father as “father” is also in the wrong. Both usages would be prohibited by a literal interpretation of Jesus’ words.

Jesus came not to abolish but to fulfill the Law of the Old Covenant (Mt 5:17). If in Matthew 23:9 he literally forbids us even to acknowledge our natural fathers as our fathers, how can we keep the fourth commandment (“honor your father and your mother”)? Taken literally, Jesus’ words in Matthew 23:9 contradict his claim in Matthew 5:17, but we know that the Son of God never contradicts himself.

Look again at the passage in which Jesus says we must call no one “father.” In contrast to the attitudes of the Pharisees and others, Jesus is specifying the qualities Christian leaders must exhibit (Mt 23:1-12). The Pharisees.aspired to being called “rabbi” (or “master” or “teacher”), leaders of schools of thought. Among the schools headed by teachers called “rabbi” there were divergences of belief, some of them in actual contradiction. A similar situation prevailed with regard to the term “father” (in Aramaic, abba, a title of honor). The title was given to well-known Jewish religious authorities of the past. As with “rabbi,” so with “father.” The term designated the progenitor of a particular, even contradictory, interpretation of the Jewish faith.

Why did Jesus declare that no Christian leader is to be called “rabbi” or “father”? He was telling us that no leader may set up his own interpretation of the Catholic faith and seek followers for his opinions. The role of leaders in Christ’s Church is faithfully to hand on Christ’s teaching received through the apostles (Mt 28:19). The words of the apostle Paul epitomize the essential attitude of the Christian teacher: “This is what I received from the Lord and in turn passed on to you” (1 Cor 11:23). Paul condemns in the church at Corinth “these slogans you have, like ‘I am for Paul,’ ‘I am for Apollos,’ ‘I am for Cephas’ (1 Cor 1:12).

 
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BlessedPeace

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I do believe your Pope knows what he is talking about. He's entrusted with leading over a billion believers in the church.
extra ecclesiam nulla salus
“Outside the Church there is no salvation”


“There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.)
“We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)
“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)
 
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quietthinker

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How did Paganism get into the church?​

By loosing sight of him whom God had sent.
We were told directly by the Father speaking of his Son 'listen to him'. Instead, we have listened to everybody else.
 

Hobie

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Dear Hobie,

Christians don't worship the sun. That was my point. You asserting that they do is just false accusations.. you should beware of that..

Pax et Bonum
Well as you can see, it is a issue with God, and to just go into denial doesn't make it true.
 
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Cassandra

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The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
It is not the same God. The Quran says that Jesus wasn't crucified,

1Cor 2:2 "For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified."
He was crucified to save us. If that is denied, and He merely ascended, then we have no forgiveness of sin.
 

Philip James

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Well as you can see, it is a issue with God, and to just go into denial doesn't make it true.

Denial? Do you know our hearts? Do you know any Catholic that says they worship the sun? Can you show me any teaching of the Church anywhere that says that we do?

You're the one in denial. preferring your own fantasy accusations to the truth..

Welcome to the ignore list...
 

Illuminator

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Opponents of the Church often attempt to discredit Catholicism by attempting to show similarities between it and the beliefs or practices of ancient paganism. This fallacy is frequently committed by Fundamentalists against Catholics; by Seventh-day Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, and others against both Protestants and Catholics; and by atheists and skeptics against both Christians and Jews.
 
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The Learner

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Opponents of the Church often attempt to discredit Catholicism by attempting to show similarities between it and the beliefs or practices of ancient paganism. This fallacy is frequently committed by Fundamentalists against Catholics; by Seventh-day Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, and others against both Protestants and Catholics; and by atheists and skeptics against both Christians and Jews.
It is known as the copycat thesis.
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