7 PAGAN FESTIVALS WE STILL CELEBRATE TODAY ~ under the guise of Christian celebrations and names.

[Aunty Jane]

P.S. - JESUS was not born on Dec 25th

P.S. - JESUS was not born in December

Yes...the fact that shepherds were outdoors at night tending their flocks is the proof that it was not the cold rainy month of December. Flocks were kept indoors at that time of year because they were valuable commodities and the shepherds were paid to take good care of their master's flock. This why Jesus used similes to depict himself as "the Good Shepherd" who would leave the 99 to find one lost sheep.

Also we see that the magi are featured along with the baby Jesus in a lot of nativity scenes, when the magi were pagan astrologers whose custom it was to bring gifts to royal children. They saw "his star" in the East and followed it, not to Bethlehem, but to Jerusalem and to the notice of a jealous king who attempted to kill the child before he even had a chance to grow up.

If the star moved in the sky so that the astrologers could follow it, why did it not take them to Bethlehem, as it did after Herod had hatched his plot? It "came to a stop right above the house" where Jesus now lived with his parents....he was no longer a baby in a manger.

This is where traditions can take even sincere people into error. That star was sent by the devil in an attempt to have Jesus killed, and these astrologers were his dupes.
God revealed the birth of his son to Jewish shepherds....he would never have revealed it to worshippers of false gods.

People need to read the Bible and stop listening to those who are justifying things that should never have been done.

 

[David in NJ]

Yes...the fact that shepherds were outdoors at night tending their flocks is the proof that it was not the cold rainy month of December. Flocks were kept indoors at that time of year because they were valuable commodities and the shepherds were paid to take good care of their master's flock. This why Jesus used similes to depict himself as "the Good Shepherd" who would leave the 99 to find one lost sheep.

Also we see that the magi are featured along with the baby Jesus in a lot of nativity scenes, when the magi were pagan astrologers whose custom it was to bring gifts to royal children. They saw "his star" in the East and followed it, not to Bethlehem, but to Jerusalem and to the notice of a jealous king who attempted to kill the child before he even had a chance to grow up.

If the star moved in the sky so that the astrologers could follow it, why did it not take them to Bethlehem, as it did after Herod had hatched his plot? It "came to a stop right above the house" where Jesus now lived with his parents....he was no longer a baby in a manger.

This is where traditions can take even sincere people into error. That star was sent by the devil in an attempt to have Jesus killed, and these astrologers were his dupes.
God revealed the birth of his son to Jewish shepherds....he would never have revealed it to worshippers of false gods.

People need to read the Bible and stop listening to those who are justifying things that should never have been done.

The 3 Wise Men showed up a year or two AFTER the birth of Jesus = thus Herod ordered all male children 2 and under to be put to death.

'What i post is my opinion AND my opinion is seldom wrong AND i will let you know when it is' = LOL

 

[David in NJ]

Yes...the fact that shepherds were outdoors at night tending their flocks is the proof that it was not the cold rainy month of December. Flocks were kept indoors at that time of year because they were valuable commodities and the shepherds were paid to take good care of their master's flock. This why Jesus used similes to depict himself as "the Good Shepherd" who would leave the 99 to find one lost sheep.

Also we see that the magi are featured along with the baby Jesus in a lot of nativity scenes, when the magi were pagan astrologers whose custom it was to bring gifts to royal children. They saw "his star" in the East and followed it, not to Bethlehem, but to Jerusalem and to the notice of a jealous king who attempted to kill the child before he even had a chance to grow up.

If the star moved in the sky so that the astrologers could follow it, why did it not take them to Bethlehem, as it did after Herod had hatched his plot? It "came to a stop right above the house" where Jesus now lived with his parents....he was no longer a baby in a manger.

This is where traditions can take even sincere people into error. That star was sent by the devil in an attempt to have Jesus killed, and these astrologers were his dupes.
God revealed the birth of his son to Jewish shepherds....he would never have revealed it to worshippers of false gods.

People need to read the Bible and stop listening to those who are justifying things that should never have been done.

Hi Aunty,

i found this for us

The Star​

Matthew wrote that it was “after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the east came to Jerusalem, saying, “Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.” When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him; and assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born. They told him, “In Bethlehem of Judea, for so it is written by the prophet:

‘And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
for from you shall come a ruler
who will shepherd my people Israel’” (Matt 2:1-6)

Matthew was quoting the prophecy of Micah (5:2) which mentions Bethlehem. This is why “Herod summoned the wise men secretly and ascertained from them what time the star had appeared. And he sent them to Bethlehem, saying, “Go and search diligently for the child, and when you have found him, bring me word, that I too may come and worship him” (Matt 2:7-8). Then, “after hearing the king, they went on their way; and behold, the star, which they had seen in the east, went on ahead of them until it came to a stop over the place where the Child was to be found. When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy” (Matt 2:9-10). What or who was this star? Was this the Shekinah glory of God that we’ve read about in the Old and New Testaments (Ex 13:21; Matt 17:5; Acts1:9, 9:3)? After some fact-checking, this star was not some tri-planetary conjunction or some hanging comet that some use to try and explain it away, because not everyone saw this star, and it wasn’t just “a star,” but rather, “his star,” meaning the Messiah’s star. And notice this star (“his star”) lead them to Jesus.

The part where it says the star came to “stop or rest over” the place where the child was is from the Greek word “histemi” and this means “stood over,” like someone standing over someone. It’s very possible the magi or wise men may have first observed the star of Bethlehem the night of Jesus’ birth, seeing it up to two years beforehand and knowing when the exact time to depart for Jerusalem would be. Either way, they found Jesus, not in stable but in a “house” (Matt 2:11), and Jesus was no baby, but likely around two years old.

Peace

 

[David in NJ]

Yes...the fact that shepherds were outdoors at night tending their flocks is the proof that it was not the cold rainy month of December. Flocks were kept indoors at that time of year because they were valuable commodities and the shepherds were paid to take good care of their master's flock. This why Jesus used similes to depict himself as "the Good Shepherd" who would leave the 99 to find one lost sheep.

Also we see that the magi are featured along with the baby Jesus in a lot of nativity scenes, when the magi were pagan astrologers whose custom it was to bring gifts to royal children. They saw "his star" in the East and followed it, not to Bethlehem, but to Jerusalem and to the notice of a jealous king who attempted to kill the child before he even had a chance to grow up.

If the star moved in the sky so that the astrologers could follow it, why did it not take them to Bethlehem, as it did after Herod had hatched his plot? It "came to a stop right above the house" where Jesus now lived with his parents....he was no longer a baby in a manger.

This is where traditions can take even sincere people into error. That star was sent by the devil in an attempt to have Jesus killed, and these astrologers were his dupes.
God revealed the birth of his son to Jewish shepherds....he would never have revealed it to worshippers of false gods.

People need to read the Bible and stop listening to those who are justifying things that should never have been done.

Have a Blessed evening Aunty - Good Nite

 

[Aunty Jane]

Hi Aunty,

i found this for us

The Star​

Matthew wrote that it was “after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the east came to Jerusalem, saying, “Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.” When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him; and assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born. They told him, “In Bethlehem of Judea, for so it is written by the prophet:

‘And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
for from you shall come a ruler
who will shepherd my people Israel’” (Matt 2:1-6)

Matthew was quoting the prophecy of Micah (5:2) which mentions Bethlehem. This is why “Herod summoned the wise men secretly and ascertained from them what time the star had appeared. And he sent them to Bethlehem, saying, “Go and search diligently for the child, and when you have found him, bring me word, that I too may come and worship him” (Matt 2:7-8). Then, “after hearing the king, they went on their way; and behold, the star, which they had seen in the east, went on ahead of them until it came to a stop over the place where the Child was to be found. When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy” (Matt 2:9-10). What or who was this star? Was this the Shekinah glory of God that we’ve read about in the Old and New Testaments (Ex 13:21; Matt 17:5; Acts1:9, 9:3)? After some fact-checking, this star was not some tri-planetary conjunction or some hanging comet that some use to try and explain it away, because not everyone saw this star, and it wasn’t just “a star,” but rather, “his star,” meaning the Messiah’s star. And notice this star (“his star”) lead them to Jesus.

The part where it says the star came to “stop or rest over” the place where the child was is from the Greek word “histemi” and this means “stood over,” like someone standing over someone. It’s very possible the magi or wise men may have first observed the star of Bethlehem the night of Jesus’ birth, seeing it up to two years beforehand and knowing when the exact time to depart for Jerusalem would be. Either way, they found Jesus, not in stable but in a “house” (Matt 2:11), and Jesus was no baby, but likely around two years old.

Peace

All they need to do is read the scriptures, but many are so in love with Christmas that they really don’t care about what the Bible says…they have their nativity scenes and the traditions that most have grown up with and the so called “wise men” were there in spite of the fact that the Bible doesn’t mention how many there were. They had three gifts but it doesn’t say “three wise men”.

The “magi“ were practers of what God condemns, (we get the word “magic” from their designation, which is something the Bible forbids)…..but it appears as if these men had no ulterior motives, but were simply dupes used by satan in an attempt to have Jesus killed. The Babylonians worshipped many gods, but they knew through their astrology, that this child was a future king…that means that they came, not to worship a god, but to do obeisance as a mark of respect to a future king.

It was no ordinary star but one sent to guide these men to Jesus, but first to the King who was jealous of his own dynasty and would tolerate no rival “King of the Jews” but himself or his son as successor. Satan knew this and plotted his course. Jehovah was way ahead of him….

 

[BlessedPeace]

​

MYTH: Too cold for shepherds to Tend Flocks in December


Luke 2:8

And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.

Discernment is crucial. Watchtower ideology has no proper place,credibility,in Biblical Exegesis.

Rather,the Society exercises Eisegesis,and has since it's founding over 1800 years after Christ.

 

[David in NJ]

​

MYTH: Too cold for shepherds to Tend Flocks in December


Luke 2:8



Discernment is crucial. Watchtower ideology has no proper place,credibility,in Biblical Exegesis.

Rather,the Society exercises Eisegesis,and has since it's founding over 1800 years after Christ.

FACT = Jesus was not born on December 25

FACT = Jesus was not born in December

FACT = But if you want to join in with the RCC worship of Christmas - go ahead

FACT = been there done that for a many years

FACT = Good Night

 

[BlessedPeace]

Were shepherds and sheep in the field in December at Christ's birth?

Photographs and testimonies are given that prove there were shepherds and sheep in the field in December at Christ's birth.

www.neverthirsty.org

 

[BlessedPeace]

"...Jesus was born on December 25. Now, Hippolytus was a Christian author who wrote in the early third century AD, and Saturnalia and the feast of Sol were not celebrated on December 25 that early in Roman history; Saturnalia never was, and the feast of Sol only came to be later."

December 25th and Christmas

When did December 25 become the date for Christmas? Early church fathers believed that Jesus was conceived on Passover and born 9 months later

www.biblicalarchaeology.org

 

[BlessedPeace]

"...

Witnesses Say Sheep In the December Snow​

Dr. Harry Mulder of the Netherlands has stated that he personally witnessed sheep outside in December on Christmas Eve while he was visiting in Jerusalem. Here is his statement,

During the brief Christmas vacation my wife and I traveled from Beirut to Jerusalem . . . On Christmas Eve in Shepherd Field a crowd had gathered to sing Christmas carols. We joined this crowd and took part in the singing. Right near us a few flocks of sheep nestled. Even the lambs were not lacking. It was a moving sight. It is therefore definitely not impossible that the Lord Jesus was born in December.[3]

Since it rarely snows in Jerusalem, it is most likely that sheep were outside in the cold December night air in December. When we say “cold,” as stated above, the temperatures were mild compared to the winters in more northern countries."

Were shepherds and sheep in the field in December at Christ's birth?

Photographs and testimonies are given that prove there were shepherds and sheep in the field in December at Christ's birth.

www.neverthirsty.org

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Just to be facetious:

 

[BlessedPeace]

I admire the resolve of the Anti-Christmas argument group.

To not only refuse to buy gifts for anyone during that time of season, and refuse gifts, because family and friends know their pov , is admirable in matters of consistency in ones agenda and perspective.

Same of course with Easter. Consistency in their argument would preclude even an Easter meal.

And Thanksgiving, reminiscent of ancient Pagan harvest celebrations at that time of season, would not be celebrated.

Not even New Year's,and its 4000 year old Pagan origin back in Babylon.

Serious discipline. It's admirable.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Discernment is crucial.

it is indeed…..and there are so many things that we know about the fact that Jews did not celebrate anyone’s birthday, because it is a pagan thing to do and tied up with astrology and the casting of horoscopes based on a child’s birthdate and the alignment of the stars foretelling the future for that child…all expressly forbidden to God’s people. (Deut 18:9-12)

No one’s birthday is even mentioned in the Bible except Pharaoh and Herod, neither of whom were Jews. At both of these occasions, someone lost their life….at Herod’s birthday party, John the Baptist was beheaded.

Watchtower ideology has no proper place,credibility,in Biblical Exegesis.

You have no idea how the ideology of Christendom’s theology, in its many expressions and denominations, has no proper place, credibility or believability when one studies the scriptures instead of trying to support human traditions that invalidate what the Bible teaches about many things. (Matt 15:7-9)

You have been shown so many proofs about the date, the arrival of the magi, and the fact that no birthdates are recorded by any Jewish or Christian writer in the scriptures. Going beyond what is written is a trap and the majority have fallen in a gaping hole exactly as Jesus said…”if a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall in the pit.“

Rather,the Society exercises Eisegesis,and has since it's founding over 1800 years after Christ.

I see that you are an armchair expert on JW beliefs, but you seem oblivious to the fact that a great number of JW’s were raised in Christendom’s churches and saw the need to get out of that fake “Christianity” because of the hypocrisy and pagan traditions they witnessed……I was one of them…..

I also discovered that Daniel’s prophesies were written about “the time of the end” and we separated from Christendom right on time….the time when Daniel foretold that a “cleansing, whitening and refining” of God’s people would take place…..a time when an abundance of knowledge would also be available (Daniel 12,4, 9-10)……but you are welcome to stay where you are, defending the indefensible, and see how it all turns out….we will all stand before the same judge…..(1 Cor 10:12)

 

[BlessedPeace]

Just to be facetious:
View attachment 37189

You heretic!

 

[L.A.M.B.]

You heretic!

Somebody's gotta be one......lol
I believe quite a few here hold to far worse heresies than what this thread is about.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Somebody's gotta be one......lol
I believe quite a few here hold to far worse heresies than what this thread is about.

If you are a Pumpernickel Heretic,there's no redemption.

In all seriousness, as sour dough is my witness, I agree with you.

However, on the Rye side, there's never a dull moment with those types around.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

If you are a Pumpernickel Heretic,there's no redemption.

In all seriousness, as sour dough is my witness, I agree with you.

However, on the Rye side, there's never a dull moment with those types around.

Excellent word play......lol

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

At the end of the day, all things considered, what does God's word have to say about all of it?
One rule of thumb is expressed by the apostle Paul in 1 Cor 4:7....
"Now, brothers, these things I have applied to myself and A·polʹlos for your good, that through us you may learn the rule: “Do not go beyond the things that are written,” so that you may not be puffed up with pride, favoring one against the other." (1 Cor 4:6)

If we are 'not to go beyond the things that are written', then why have so many things been introduced into church "tradition" that have no basis in scripture? The rule is simple....if God's word is silent, don't bring in things that have no place in God's worship....things that are from "outside" of God's word? If you do, you run the risk of doing what "the church" has done....celebrating all manner of things that are not from God's word as if what is written is not enough.......if “All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.” (2 Tim 3:16-17).....why do we need to add to what has been so amply provided?

So, who then is "the church" that introduced all these extras? How can we identify the "wheat" from the "weeds" that Jesus said would be sown by the devil, growing together in the world?...and whose major aim is to 'divide and conquer'.....has he accomplished his aim.....? You bet he has! Look at the arguments on these threads.....Christians are more divided than they have ever been. The question is who are the "wheat" and who are the "weeds"....which are the real Christians and which is the counterfeit "Christianity" planted by the devil that is littered with all manner of human traditions, invalidating true Christian worship.

What did Jesus ask the Pharisees?.....“Why do you overstep the commandment of God because of your tradition?" (Matt 15:3)
Disobedience is the devil's playground, and the fact is, he cannot make us do anything....all he can do is influence us mostly by the power of suggestion to tempt us to separate from God by our conduct. Is this what we are seeing again? Is history repeating? Do humans keep falling into the same hole, time after time, as if there are no precedents to warn them NOT to go there....?

Right from day one, all that God required was obedience.....the devil has never changed his tactics because human nature does not change. The majority can't be told, and humans never learn from their past mistakes.....therefore they are doomed to repeat them....ad infinitum.

Some though, get the message....we need to be one of them.

Proof that December 25th is the actual date of Christ’s birth

Christ’s Birth in December In recent years, the skepticism concerning the accuracy of the December birth of Christ has increased. More and more we hear that December is arbitrary or that it …

dormitioninconcord.wordpress.com

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/283001744_Calculating_December_25_as_the_Birth_of_Jesus_in_Hippolytus'_Canon_and_Chronicon

Hippolytus (Early 3rd C.) & A December 25th Christmas Hippolytus (Early 3rd C.) & A December 25th Christmas

Two days ago I posted my article, Christmas & Dec. 25th: Not Derived from Saturnalia (Nor from Sol Invictus . . .). In it, I included one of the I document Hippolytus (c. 170- c. 235) holding to a December 25th Christmas, over a hundred years before the widely alleged first Christian mention of...

www.patheos.com

Christians picked December 25 before Roman pagans did - Stephen M. Miller

Half a century before Roman pagans honored the sun god on December 25, Christians were already celebrating the birthday of Jesus on that day.

stephenmillerbooks.com

https://tcschmidtblog.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/schmidt-calculating-december-25-as-the-birth-of-jesus-in-hippolytus1.pdf

Why is Christmas on December 25?

Did the early Christians 'borrow' December 25 from pagans for the birth of Jesus? You can make that claim, but good luck proving it.

www.catholic.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/comments/dvpc4u

Wayback Machine

The 25th of December Pagan Feast or Patristic Tradition? - Inside The Vatican

Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25. But that date was already popular among the Romans as the “birthday of the sun.” So, was Jesus actually born on December 25? Ancient tradition says “yes.” For centuries the Church has commemorated the birth of Christ on December 25. Many...

insidethevatican.com

Thank you very much for these.

Insightful but for me not definitive.

And of little matter.... for Dec 25 will always be celebrated by the bulk of Christians and RCC so long as we are able to do so.

But there IS another subject... NOT AT ALL PAGAN... BUT POSSIBLY OF HISTORICAL VALUE ... IF PROVEN TRUE.
And I am going to start another thread away from this one

 

[Zao is life]

Hi Aunty,

i found this for us

The Star​

Matthew wrote that it was “after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the east came to Jerusalem, saying, “Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.” When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him; and assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born. They told him, “In Bethlehem of Judea, for so it is written by the prophet:

‘And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
for from you shall come a ruler
who will shepherd my people Israel’” (Matt 2:1-6)

Matthew was quoting the prophecy of Micah (5:2) which mentions Bethlehem. This is why “Herod summoned the wise men secretly and ascertained from them what time the star had appeared. And he sent them to Bethlehem, saying, “Go and search diligently for the child, and when you have found him, bring me word, that I too may come and worship him” (Matt 2:7-8). Then, “after hearing the king, they went on their way; and behold, the star, which they had seen in the east, went on ahead of them until it came to a stop over the place where the Child was to be found. When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy” (Matt 2:9-10). What or who was this star? Was this the Shekinah glory of God that we’ve read about in the Old and New Testaments (Ex 13:21; Matt 17:5; Acts1:9, 9:3)? After some fact-checking, this star was not some tri-planetary conjunction or some hanging comet that some use to try and explain it away, because not everyone saw this star, and it wasn’t just “a star,” but rather, “his star,” meaning the Messiah’s star. And notice this star (“his star”) lead them to Jesus.

The part where it says the star came to “stop or rest over” the place where the child was is from the Greek word “histemi” and this means “stood over,” like someone standing over someone. It’s very possible the magi or wise men may have first observed the star of Bethlehem the night of Jesus’ birth, seeing it up to two years beforehand and knowing when the exact time to depart for Jerusalem would be. Either way, they found Jesus, not in stable but in a “house” (Matt 2:11), and Jesus was no baby, but likely around two years old.

Peace

Copy @Aunty Jane

The priests all had specific times appointed to them to fulfill their duties in the temple, according to their order. If it can be established what time of year was the turn for Zechariah's priestly order (the course of Abijah) to fulfill duties in the temple, it will be an end to all dispute:

Luke 1
7 And they had no child, because Elizabeth was barren. And both were advanced in their days.
8 And it happened in his serving in the order of his course, before God,
9 according to the custom of the priests, it was his lot to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord.

23 And as soon as the days of his service were accomplished, he departed to his own house.
24 And after those days his wife Elizabeth conceived and hid herself five months, saying,
25 So the Lord has dealt with me in the days in which He looked on me, to take away my reproach among men.
26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin's name was Mary.

39 And Mary arose in those days and went into the hill country with haste, to a city of Judah.
40 And she entered into the house of Zacharias and greeted Elizabeth.

56 And Mary stayed with her about three months, and returned to her own house.
57 And the time was fulfilled to Elizabeth for her to bear. And she bore a son.

I've done some quick searches in the Internet on the research of others regarding what time of year the course of Abijah (the key) were due to perform their priestly service in the temple, but it's too much reading for now.

It would be interesting to know for sure what month Jesus was born, but it is not crucial to salvation.

.. and it would be comical to see the reaction on the faces of some if it proved to be close to 25 December, because of the "thou shalt not" legalistic importance attached to the date, and the belief that it was the feast of Saturnalia that the Roman Church mixed with worship of Christ.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Only people who don't understand that would call it pagan.

Nothing wrong with being thankful for the Lord's birth and resurrection...

But God never told us to make big holidays out of them either... unless you have scripture for this?