Losing Your Salvation - Bible Verses

[L.A.M.B.]

Therefore 2nd death, after the death which is physical.
We are all born spiritually dead, until we accept Christ as our saviour.
We are away from God in rebellion of sin & unbelief even while we physically live.
The rejection of him & his grace will produce a second eternal death.
2 deaths. Born in sin spiritually dead until Christ is received, if rejected, then we all still will die a physical death of the body. Rejection of him will result in a physical death that will never end. 2nd death.

 

[MatthewG]

Yahava's will is to have none to perish. It seems to me that Yahava, and because of Yeshua, he will raise all people up from the dead, and it seems that if people continue to read onwards in the Revelation 20-22, they will see that Yahava has people raised from the dead that are on the outside of the Kingdom of God.

People can say that is not true, but it doesn't erase it. Therefore I continue to believe and trust that Yahava will get his will done - despite those who do not believe it is possible for him to do such, not saying anyone here does or does not.

Why are faithless people claimed to be outside of the gates of the city in heaven?

Hello there, PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE POST Many people believe that God is going to destroy people in the lake of fire, but is that true? In Revelation 20, you see that the devil, the false prophet, the beast are all placed in the lake of fire forever; and then following those who name was not...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[GracePeace]

Therefore 2nd death, after the death which is physical.
We are all born spiritually dead, until we accept Christ as our saviour.
We are away from God in rebellion of sin & unbelief even while we physically live.
The rejection of him & his grace will produce a second eternal death.
2 deaths. Born in sin spiritually dead until Christ is received, if rejected, then we all still will die a physical death of the body. Rejection of him will result in a physical death that will never end. 2nd death.

But, if that were the case, you would be saying that every single soul who gets condemned to the second death had already received Christ. I don't think that that is tenable. Not to be argumentative.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

I was just wondering why it was called "the second death" when we already have two deaths (physical and spiritual). LOL

We don't have 2 deaths as you define it . All are born spiritually dead, then we can be reborn spiritually in the new birth, and only die once, which is physical !
If we reject salvation we will die once physically in the life God has graced us with, the second death is after all are resurrected and these will die again in God's separation of them bc of their choice.

 

[GracePeace]

Yahava's will is to have none to perish. It seems to me that Yahava, and because of Yeshua, he will raise all people up from the dead, and it seems that if people continue to read onwards in the Revelation 20-22, they will see that Yahava has people raised from the dead that are on the outside of the Kingdom of God.

People can say that is not true, but it doesn't erase it. Therefore I continue to believe and trust that Yahava will get his will done - despite those who do not believe it is possible for him to do such, not saying anyone here does or does not.

Why are faithless people claimed to be outside of the gates of the city in heaven?

Hello there, PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE POST Many people believe that God is going to destroy people in the lake of fire, but is that true? In Revelation 20, you see that the devil, the false prophet, the beast are all placed in the lake of fire forever; and then following those who name was not...

www.christianityboard.com

It says "that I would lose none that You gave Me", so this does not refer to all men.
In fact, the first fulfillment comes in the Garden when he gets his disciples dismissed.

John 18
8“I told you that I am He,” Jesus replied. “So if you are looking for Me, let these men go.” 9This was to fulfill the word He had spoken: “I have not lost one of those You have given Me.”

So, clearly, it's not about all men, but those who identify with Christ--those who are remaining in Him, and His Words in them (Jn 15).

 

[MatthewG]

It says "that I would lose none that You gave Me", so this does not refer to all men.
In fact, the first fulfillment comes in the Garden when he gets his disciples dismissed.

John 18
8“I told you that I am He,” Jesus replied. “So if you are looking for Me, let these men go.” 9This was to fulfill the word He had spoken: “I have not lost one of those You have given Me.”

So, clearly, it's not about all men, but those who identify with Christ--those who are remaining in Him, and His Words in them (Jn 15).

John 15 was Jesus talking to his chosen apostles. Yahava's will still stands. His overall will to have none perish. Whether people believe that or not is up to them when it comes to resurrection.

 

[GracePeace]

We don't have 2 deaths as you define it . All are born spiritually dead, then we can be reborn spiritually in the new birth, and only die once, which is physical !
If we reject salvation we will die once physically in the life God has graced us with, the second death is after all are resurrected and these will die again in God's separation of them bc of their choice.

We differ: reading Romans 7, I think it is possible that people are not born spiritually dead, but they are born with the sinful flesh, so, because of the inevitable slavery to sin to which men become subjected by dint of the presence of that sinful flesh, men spiritually die.

It's interesting that Christ says the angels of the children daily behold the face of God. How is that the case if they're spiritually dead?

I don't think it's tenable to say every single last person who dies the second death (including death itself) had once believed in Jesus.

 

[GracePeace]

John 15 was Jesus talking to his chosen apostles. Yahava's will still stands. His overall will to have none perish. Whether people believe that or not is up to them when it comes to resurrection.

The will of God is one thing, and every time people sin, they are not choosing God's will--by definition, those who sin do not have God's will in their lives.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Yahava's will is to have none to perish. It seems to me that Yahava, and because of Yeshua, he will raise all people up from the dead, and it seems that if people continue to read onwards in the Revelation 20-22, they will see that Yahava has people raised from the dead that are on the outside of the Kingdom of God.

People can say that is not true, but it doesn't erase it. Therefore I continue to believe and trust that Yahava will get his will done - despite those who do not believe it is possible for him to do such, not saying anyone here does or does not.

Why are faithless people claimed to be outside of the gates of the city in heaven?

Hello there, PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE POST Many people believe that God is going to destroy people in the lake of fire, but is that true? In Revelation 20, you see that the devil, the false prophet, the beast are all placed in the lake of fire forever; and then following those who name was not...

www.christianityboard.com

Whatever you choose to believe Matthew, that is your choice but you reject the right dividing of God's word!

May he reveal unto you through the Spirit, after new life, that you may understand his word.

 

[MatthewG]

The will of God is one thing, and every time people sin, they are not choosing God's will--by definition, those who sin do not have God's will in their lives.

Yahava's will is one thing. Jesus prayed for his Father's will to be done. I still sin, would you like to go on a sin talk? Either Jesus Christ, has taken care of my sins, or he needs to continue to die over and over again. Sure I still have points in my life I fail at, all people do. Christ Yeshua fills those failures, by his love, through the spirit of Christ within.

 

[MatthewG]

Whatever you choose to believe Matthew, that is your choice but you reject the right dividing of God's word!

May he reveal unto you through the Spirit, after new life, that you may understand his word.

Always the same to you too. Was just sharing some differing opinions, cause not everyone believes or has to accept what people believe in general do they, may God always guide of course, friend. No condemnation here.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

But, if that were the case, you would be saying that every single soul who gets condemned to the second death had already received Christ. I don't think that that is tenable. Not to be argumentative.

No, you are misunderstanding, they have rejected HIM.

 

[GracePeace]

Yahava's will is one thing. Jesus prayed for his Father's will to be done. I still sin, would you like to go on a sin talk? Either Jesus Christ, has taken care of my sins, or he needs to continue to die over and over again. Sure I still have points in my life I fail at, all people do. Christ Yeshua fills those failures, by his love, through the spirit of Christ within.

I was saying God has a will, and when we sin, we are not choosing God's will.

For example, God had a will for Jesus. When Jesus had a different will, He had to put it aside to choose God's will.

Therefore, it does not follow from "God wills that all be saved" that "all will be saved".

 

[GracePeace]

No, you are misunderstanding, they have rejected HIM.

Well, I don't want to get into a heated interaction, to be honest, especially since I don't even know, and can't be dogmatic.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Always the same to you too. Was just sharing some differing opinions, cause not everyone believes or has to accept what people believe in general do they, may God always guide of course, friend. No condemnation here.

I don't live by others opinions nor their interpretations, nor their personal, church or whatever beliefs, they may have ! I DO NOT ENTERTAIN THEM EITHER!

I live by this :
Matthew 4:4 (NIV) “It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on EVERY WORD that comes from the mouth of God.

 

[MatthewG]

I was saying God has a will, and when we sin, we are not choosing God's will.

For example, God had a will for Jesus. When Jesus had a different will, He had to put it aside to choose God's will.

Therefore, it does not follow from "God wills that all be saved" means "all will be saved".

I explained I still sin, and fail to do God's will sometimes. Yahava has a will that is over all people - that is to have none to perish. 2 Peter 3:9 the Lord is not slow in regard to the promise, as certain count slowness, but is long-suffering to us, not counselling any to be lost but all to pass on to reformation,

 

[MatthewG]

I don't live by others opinions nor their interpretations, nor their personal, church or whatever beliefs, they may have ! I DO NOT ENTERTAIN THEM EITHER!

I live by this :
Matthew 4:4 (NIV) “It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on EVERY WORD that comes from the mouth of God.

I don't judge you nor do you have to prove yourself to me. All of us are three individuals just socializing. All of us have our differences. That is all that can be known and to love one another.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Well, I don't want to get into a heated interaction, to be honest, especially since I don't even know, and can't be dogmatic.

No heat here.
No dogma either, just the word.
Be blessed!

 

[GracePeace]

I explained I still sin, and fail to do God's will sometimes. Yahava has a will that is over all people - that is to have none to perish. 2 Peter 3:9 the Lord is not slow in regard to the promise, as certain count slowness, but is long-suffering to us, not counselling any to be lost but all to pass on to reformation,

I wasn't referring to believers--that's a different story--but to all mankind, since L.A.M.B. seemed to be differing with you about your belief that all men would be "saved" (of course this makes no sense, since "salvation" would have to include being saved from His wrath, but it is clear that most mankind go to suffer under God's wrath, so they're not "saved" from His wrath).

 

[MatthewG]

I wasn't referring to believers--that's a different story--but to all mankind, since L.A.M.B. seemed to be differing with you about your belief that all men would be "saved" (of course this makes no sense, since "salvation" would have to include being saved from His wrath, but it is clear that most mankind go to suffer under God's wrath, so they're not "saved" from His wrath).

Okay, I am a point that I am lost anyway. I do believe that people have been saved from the 'wrath of God', because the 'wrath of God' was poured out on unbelievers, in Ad 70. However most think I am just a nutcase for saying things like that. I do believe people are saved from death, spiriutal death, Satan, the beast, the false prophet, hades, and sin. As being on their account when they pass away, they will have their choice whether or not they had faith, and then again it all goes back down to this.

Why are faithless people claimed to be outside of the gates of the city in heaven?

Hello there, PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE POST Many people believe that God is going to destroy people in the lake of fire, but is that true? In Revelation 20, you see that the devil, the false prophet, the beast are all placed in the lake of fire forever; and then following those who name was not...

www.christianityboard.com

All the best to all.