Keiw
Well-Known Member
Satan lied to Eve and told her they positively would not die. Gen 3:4So what was the original sin?
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Satan lied to Eve and told her they positively would not die. Gen 3:4So what was the original sin?
any reference support?Satan lied to Eve and told her they positively would not die. Gen 3:4
Nah, that process started when God created the universe. God has not given anything or anybody the power to alter the basic functioning of His creation.Realize that death is a process of cells dying daily, organs and systems within breaking down, growing old and eventually no longer functioning.
This process started when sin came into the world and into their bodies.
So God created all that is bad so we would know what is good. Interesting idea, but I don't believe it. Did the angels need to experience pain and suffering, or despair, hate, hunger and death in order to know and appreciate good?So the wages of sin is both physical and spiritual death. You might ask, But what about the Tree of Life, they could 't have lived forever unless they ate of it? True. But this was God's plan all along, that we would know good and evil, and appreciate what good is and know Him. Think about it, we could not know what the meaning of mercy, forgiveness, healing, love, faith, kindness, joy, patience or peace unless we experience their opposites. When we experience pain and suffering, or despair, hate, hunger and death, then when good comes along, we really appreciate it, we really begin to understand what good is, who God is and all of His attributes.
Powerful post..
● Gen 2:15-17 . . Of every tree of the garden you are free to eat; but as for
the tree of knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat of it; for in the day
you eat of it, you shall die.
That passage is a favorite among critics because Adam didn't drop dead the
very day he tasted the forbidden fruit. In point of fact, he continued to live
outside the garden of Eden for another 800 years after the birth of his son
Seth (Gen 5:4). So; is there a reasonable explanation for this apparent
discrepancy?
The first thing to point out is that in order for his maker's warning to
resonate in Adam's thinking; it had to be related to death as he understood
death in his own day rather than death as modern Sunday school classes
construe it in their day. In other words: Adam's concept of death was
primitive, i.e. normal and natural rather than spiritual.
As far as can be known from scripture, Man is the only specie that God
created in His own image, viz: a creature blessed with perpetual youth. The
animal kingdom was given nothing like it.
That being the case, then I think it's safe to assume that death was common
all around Adam by means of vegetation, birds, bugs, and beasts so that it
wasn't a strange new word in his vocabulary; i.e. God didn't have to take a
moment and define death for Adam seeing as how it was doubtless a
common occurrence in his everyday life.
So I think we can be reasonably confident that Adam was up to speed on at
least the natural aspects of death and fully understood that if he went ahead
and tasted the forbidden fruit that his body would lose its perpetual youth and
end up no more permanent than grass.
The thing is: the aging process is a lingering, walking death rather than sudden
death, i.e. mortality is slow, but very relentless: like Arnold Swarzenegger's movie
character "The Terminator"-- mortality feels neither pain nor pity, nor remorse nor
fear; it cannot be reasoned with nor can it be bargained with, and it absolutely will
not stop-- ever! --until your body is so broken down that it cannot continue.
● Zech 1:5 . .Where are your forefathers now? And the prophets, do they live
forever?
My parents are gone, and the great preacher Billy Graham is gone. My
favorite rock and roll guitar player during the years I was a teen-ager was
Chuck Berry. He's gone. When I was a sophomore in high school, me and a
buddy went to see "The Blob" starring a rather unknown actor at the time
named Steve McQueen. He's gone. My eldest brother entered the Catholic
priesthood and anon became a Friar. He's gone. My bestest friend ever,
whom I'd known since the 2nd grade in elementary school is gone; shot to
death by law enforcement. My very favorite nephew is gone too; dropped
dead to the floor of unknown causes at 51.
There's hardly a year goes by without someone passing away that at one
time was very important to me --constant reminders that nobody lives
forever and neither will I. At my current age of 79+ and diagnosed with
esophageal cancer, I'll be passing away not too long from now. Most of my
life has already been lived and I'm in the home stretch; heading for the exit.
When I was a youngster, life's horizon seemed forever far away; but now,
looking at my deteriorating body, it seems I'm walking on the horizon's
edge.
_
Evil already existed! The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was planted in the Garden days before Adam and Eve existed --- for a purpose. That tree of course was just a tree that was to be off limits, a rule, that God knew they would break. Trees don't contain knowledge, it was just a doorway, a trigger, that set them off on a life filled with experiences that God intended mankind to go through. Remember, I was a doorway to know what good was as well as evil.Nah, that process started when God created the universe. God has not given anything or anybody the power to alter the basic functioning of His creation.
So God created all that is bad so we would know what is good. Interesting idea, but I don't believe it. Did the angels need to experience pain and suffering, or despair, hate, hunger and death in order to know and appreciate good?
Randy Kluth is very knowledgeable and I enjoy reading his posts. I don't recall ever disagreeing with him because mostly we are on the same page. But now you have showed me something I do disagree with. It's okay, the Body of Christ seems to be split down the middle concerning our origins. I am a YEC. Many believe in an old universe, 13.7 billion years old, with our earth being 4.5 billion years old and to boot a Theistic Evolution of life forms as we know them. In this view, God created things in a simplistic form and then let evolution run its course.
Humans are not immortal. Only God was immortal, 1 Timothy 6:16 (WEB):Immortality makes people immune to the aging process. But although immortality
prevents people from dying of old age, it doesn't protect them from death by other
means, e.g. violence, poison, falls, starvation, dehydration, bleeding out,
decapitation, blunt force trauma, bullets, suffocation, crushing, etc.
Thanks for the reference. This is how to do referencing in a scholarly manner:Gods inspired words at Genesis 3:4
You should not let the age of the earth become a factor in your understanding of Genesis, nor its literal and explicit descriptions given -- that God made everything finished and perfect.See How old is the earth?. We can continue there.
Only God was immortal, 1 Timothy 6:16
Listening to Gods command to all-Be like the Bereans and make sure of all things), and looking up the scripture for one self is very beneficial to that one.Thanks for the reference. This is how to do referencing in a scholarly manner:
This is what I do for others who read my posts. It is a standard high-school scholarship. If you practice this, I guarantee you it will improve your analytical thinking.
- Display and indent the quoted text.
- Selectively bold the relevant keywords that are important to the point that you are making. No need to bold the entire sentence. Have a laser-sharp focus.
- Be concise and precise to the point. No need to quote the whole chapter.
The way it is written is a bit ambiguous (it's a long sentence that mentions God and Jesus). So in such a case it is helpful to search the Scriptures for further clues, such as John 1:18 and 6:46 (WEB):I've examined your passage in its context (1Tim 6:13-16) and it appears to
me the immortality spoken of is Christ's rather than God's.
I presume you must be referring to Hebrews chapters 5-7. However, that says nothing about immortality, it only says of Jesus that:* According to the epistle to the Hebrews: it's essential that Christ be immortal
to qualify as a high priest in the order of Melchizedek.
So what is the original sin?.
● Gen 2:15-17 . . Of every tree of the garden you are free to eat; but as for
the tree of knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat of it; for in the day
you eat of it, you shall die.
That passage is a favorite among critics because Adam didn't drop dead the
very day he tasted the forbidden fruit. In point of fact, he continued to live
outside the garden of Eden for another 800 years after the birth of his son
Seth (Gen 5:4). So; is there a reasonable explanation for this apparent
discrepancy?
The first thing to point out is that in order for his maker's warning to
resonate in Adam's thinking; it had to be related to death as he understood
death in his own day rather than death as modern Sunday school classes
construe it in their day. In other words: Adam's concept of death was
primitive, i.e. normal and natural rather than spiritual.
As far as can be known from scripture, Man is the only specie that God
created in His own image, viz: a creature blessed with perpetual youth. The
animal kingdom was given nothing like it.
That being the case, then I think it's safe to assume that death was common
all around Adam by means of vegetation, birds, bugs, and beasts so that it
wasn't a strange new word in his vocabulary; i.e. God didn't have to take a
moment and define death for Adam seeing as how it was doubtless a
common occurrence in his everyday life.
So I think we can be reasonably confident that Adam was up to speed on at
least the natural aspects of death and fully understood that if he went ahead
and tasted the forbidden fruit that his body would lose its perpetual youth and
end up no more permanent than grass.
The thing is: the aging process is a lingering, walking death rather than sudden
death, i.e. mortality is slow, but very relentless: like Arnold Swarzenegger's movie
character "The Terminator"-- mortality feels neither pain nor pity, nor remorse nor
fear; it cannot be reasoned with nor can it be bargained with, and it absolutely will
not stop-- ever! --until your body is so broken down that it cannot continue.
● Zech 1:5 . .Where are your forefathers now? And the prophets, do they live
forever?
My parents are gone, and the great preacher Billy Graham is gone. My
favorite rock and roll guitar player during the years I was a teen-ager was
Chuck Berry. He's gone. When I was a sophomore in high school, me and a
buddy went to see "The Blob" starring a rather unknown actor at the time
named Steve McQueen. He's gone. My eldest brother entered the Catholic
priesthood and anon became a Friar. He's gone. My bestest friend ever,
whom I'd known since the 2nd grade in elementary school is gone; shot to
death by law enforcement. My very favorite nephew is gone too; dropped
dead to the floor of unknown causes at 51.
There's hardly a year goes by without someone passing away that at one
time was very important to me --constant reminders that nobody lives
forever and neither will I. At my current age of 79+ and diagnosed with
esophageal cancer, I'll be passing away not too long from now. Most of my
life has already been lived and I'm in the home stretch; heading for the exit.
When I was a youngster, life's horizon seemed forever far away; but now,
looking at my deteriorating body, it seems I'm walking on the horizon's
edge.
_
Hebrews 7:3 (WEB):● Heb 6:20 . . He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.
There's no biblical record of Melchizedek's death. Of course he's actually dead, but for
the purposes of a "type" he was immortal.
I'm not interested in discussing the belief of Mormons!* The characteristics of Melchizedek's priesthood reveal a couple of serious flaws in
Mormonism's priesthood order of Melchizedek.
So what is the original sin?