My take on original sin

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

TonyChanYT

Well-Known Member
Sep 13, 2023
1,725
705
113
63
Toronto
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
The term "original sin" is not written in the Bible. It is a matter of choosing a definition. Regardless of how you define it, Romans 3:

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus
We are all guilty of sin, original or not, and we all need the blood of Christ to redeem us.

Regarding babies in the womb, Romans 8:

10b when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad
Why do babies die?

We all die, 1 Corinthians 15:

22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
We all died because of the consequence of the first sin. Adam and Eve fell and brought the first sin into the world. As a consequence, everyone is subject to death. Babies are born into a sinful world. They could physically die at birth but they are not automatically condemned to eternal death because of Adam's or Eve's sin. They do not die for the first sin itself. They die because of the consequence of being existing in a sinful world.
 

JBO

Well-Known Member
Oct 20, 2023
1,281
269
83
85
Prescott, AZ
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The term "original sin" is not written in the Bible. It is a matter of choosing a definition. Regardless of how you define it, Romans 3:


We are all guilty of sin, original or not, and we all need the blood of Christ to redeem us.

Regarding babies in the womb, Romans 8:


Why do babies die?

We all die, 1 Corinthians 15:


We all died because of the consequence of the first sin. Adam and Eve fell and brought the first sin into the world. As a consequence, everyone is subject to death. Babies are born into a sinful world. They could physically die at birth but they are not automatically condemned to eternal death because of Adam's or Eve's sin. They do not die for the first sin itself. They die because of the consequence of being existing in a sinful world.
We do not die physically because of anything Adam did. Adam died spiritually when he sinned, when he disobeyed God. He died physically because that was how he was created. He was not created immortal; rather he was created with a mortal physical body. So long as he obeyed, he was allowed to stay in the Garden wherein there was the Tree of Life which guarded against his physical dying. When he sinned, God ejected him from the garden and he no longer had access to the fruit of the Tree of Life. The result of that was that he eventually died the physical death which was an integral feature of the entire creation. Nothing about this creation was to last forever.

In Adam, meaning being a human being, all die physically. The wages of sin is (spiritual) death. Babies die because they are human.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TonyChanYT

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
Apr 12, 2012
4,663
763
113
80
Oregon
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
.
FAQ: What if Adam had eaten some fruit from the tree of life prior to trying
the forbidden fruit?


REPLY: The tree of life doesn't work like a vaccine, rather, it's a remedy;
portrayed in the Bible as a treatment for whatever ails you. (Rev 22:2)

Under normal circumstances, Adam had no use for the tree of life at first
because he was already in perfect health. He was created in the image and
likeness of God, i.e. Adam was immune to the aging process: an advantage
he lost by tampering with the forbidden fruit when he was instructed not to.

Gen 2:16-17 . . The Lord God commanded the man: You are free to eat
from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the
knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.

Well; Adam didn't pass away within 24 hours after eating the forbidden fruit.
In point of fact he continued to live 800 more years beyond the birth of his
son Seth. (Gen 5:4)

So the death that Adam underwent due to tasting the forbidden fruit began
with his loss of perfect health, i.e. Adam's body became infected with
mortality which, if left untreated, is 100% fatal. Mortality is a lingering death
that gradually broke Adam down to the point where his body could no longer
keep going.
_
 

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
12,712
3,779
113
69
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The term "original sin" is not written in the Bible. It is a matter of choosing a definition. Regardless of how you define it, Romans 3:


We are all guilty of sin, original or not, and we all need the blood of Christ to redeem us.

Regarding babies in the womb, Romans 8:


Why do babies die?

We all die, 1 Corinthians 15:


We all died because of the consequence of the first sin. Adam and Eve fell and brought the first sin into the world. As a consequence, everyone is subject to death. Babies are born into a sinful world. They could physically die at birth but they are not automatically condemned to eternal death because of Adam's or Eve's sin. They do not die for the first sin itself. They die because of the consequence of being existing in a sinful world.
Well original sin simply defines the rebellion of Adam and the consequences of that act.

When Adam fell He died spiritually and all mankind is born in Adams image! We are born spiritually dead and as Paul in ephesians wrote we are by nature, children of wrath!

Jesus said "Unless a person is born from above, they cannot see the kingdom of god". Now I don't know if babies can make that choice or not, but if they don't and die- they are lost because they are by nature (not actions) children of wrath.
 

ScottA

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2011
11,744
5,599
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
We all died because of the consequence of the first sin. Adam and Eve fell and brought the first sin into the world. As a consequence, everyone is subject to death. Babies are born into a sinful world. They could physically die at birth but they are not automatically condemned to eternal death because of Adam's or Eve's sin. They do not die for the first sin itself. They die because of the consequence of being existing in a sinful world.

A better way to understand why babies are rightly considered sinful since they may not have even committed any sin (as yet) was stated by God in the beginning, as each "according to its kind." Meaning (by example of other beasts of the flesh) that babies whether they have or have not yet committed any sin, are born sinful by the "kind" of Eve who sinned and then bore children of her sinful kind.

Which is the need then stated as, "And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— which is Christ.
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
14,195
4,957
113
33
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The term "original sin" is not written in the Bible. It is a matter of choosing a definition. Regardless of how you define it, Romans 3:


We are all guilty of sin, original or not, and we all need the blood of Christ to redeem us.

Regarding babies in the womb, Romans 8:


Why do babies die?

We all die, 1 Corinthians 15:


We all died because of the consequence of the first sin. Adam and Eve fell and brought the first sin into the world. As a consequence, everyone is subject to death. Babies are born into a sinful world. They could physically die at birth but they are not automatically condemned to eternal death because of Adam's or Eve's sin. They do not die for the first sin itself. They die because of the consequence of being existing in a sinful world.

Everyone will die eventually, babies, children, teens, adults. What can be assured is that Yeshua has taken care of all sins, past, present and future. That is something that is good to remember always. Yahava to me, today, is not angry or mad at people because of sin. He just desires them to look to him, and Yahava is fair and just to rightly assess every situation and person whom comes to him even after death. Yahava is good, Yahava is love, Yahava is spirit, and Yahava will do rightly, justly, fairly, always, and he desires for all to be saved, to come to his son, and to raise everyone back up from the dead.

Amen.
 

JBO

Well-Known Member
Oct 20, 2023
1,281
269
83
85
Prescott, AZ
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
.
FAQ: What if Adam had eaten some fruit from the tree of life prior to trying
the forbidden fruit?


REPLY: The tree of life doesn't work like a vaccine, rather, it's a remedy;
portrayed in the Bible as a treatment for whatever ails you. (Rev 22:2)

Under normal circumstances, Adam had no use for the tree of life at first
because he was already in perfect health. He was created in the image and
likeness of God, i.e. Adam was immune to the aging process: an advantage
he lost by tampering with the forbidden fruit when he was instructed not to.
Then why Did God put the tree in the Garden?
 

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
Apr 12, 2012
4,663
763
113
80
Oregon
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
.
Then why Did God put the tree in the Garden?

I suppose we could ask the same question relative to rattlesnakes, death cap
mushrooms, marijuana, tobacco, poison ivy, cadmium, lead, arsenic, and
hemlock. Those things are hazardous, yes, but they all have their place in
the natural scheme of things.

There are folks who would take God into court for product liability,
entrapment, and/or enabling, but without a biased judge like the one handling
Donald Trump's case, they probably wouldn't have much luck obtaining a
conviction because Adam didn't walk into a big surprise. He had fair warning
and I think we may safely assume he was an adult at the time.
_
 

Keiw

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2022
2,616
461
83
66
upstate NY
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The term "original sin" is not written in the Bible. It is a matter of choosing a definition. Regardless of how you define it, Romans 3:


We are all guilty of sin, original or not, and we all need the blood of Christ to redeem us.

Regarding babies in the womb, Romans 8:


Why do babies die?

We all die, 1 Corinthians 15:


We all died because of the consequence of the first sin. Adam and Eve fell and brought the first sin into the world. As a consequence, everyone is subject to death. Babies are born into a sinful world. They could physically die at birth but they are not automatically condemned to eternal death because of Adam's or Eve's sin. They do not die for the first sin itself. They die because of the consequence of being existing in a sinful world.
Satans lie was the first sin. No one dies because of another's sin, they pay the wages of their own sins. Acts 3:19-Repent and turn around to get sins blotted out, yet one still pays the wages for those sins.
Jesus death opened the door to all to repent. His death does cover those righteous ones who live to see the tribulation and armageddon come to earth. The righteous( great crowd of other sheep) will be brought through on earth( Prov 2:21-22, Matt 24:22, Matt 5:5, Psalm 37:29) and may never have to taste death as long as they continue in faith once satan is loosed for a little while. The remaining little flock of the ( 144,000) will be changed in the twinkling of an eye towards the end of the tribulation and will never taste death.
 

JBO

Well-Known Member
Oct 20, 2023
1,281
269
83
85
Prescott, AZ
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I suppose we could ask the same question relative to rattlesnakes, death cap
mushrooms, marijuana, tobacco, poison ivy, cadmium, lead, arsenic, and
hemlock. Those things are hazardous, yes, but they all have their place in
the natural scheme of things.

There are folks who would take God into court for product liability,
entrapment, and/or enabling, but without a biased judge like the one handling
Donald Trump's case, they probably wouldn't have much luck obtaining a
conviction because Adam didn't walk into a big surprise. He had fair warning
and I think we may safely assume he was an adult at the time.
_
But If Adam was created as an immortal being, then the Tree of Life in the Garden did not have its place in the natural scheme of things. It would have served no purpose whatsoever. That is further demonstrated by the fact that once Adam sinned, God ejected him from the Garden specifically to keep him from having access to the Tree of Life. Adam's physical death was not the direct result of his sin; rather it was the direct result of being kicked out of the Garden and no longer being able to eat from the Tree of Life.

Adam's physical death was not the result of his sin and neither is ours. Physical death is the natural result of being a human being, i.e., in Adam.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cassandra

TonyChanYT

Well-Known Member
Sep 13, 2023
1,725
705
113
63
Toronto
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Satans lie was the first sin. No one dies because of another's sin, they pay the wages of their own sins. Acts 3:19-Repent and turn around to get sins blotted out, yet one still pays the wages for those sins.
Jesus death opened the door to all to repent. His death does cover those righteous ones who live to see the tribulation and armageddon come to earth. The righteous( great crowd of other sheep) will be brought through on earth( Prov 2:21-22, Matt 24:22, Matt 5:5, Psalm 37:29) and may never have to taste death as long as they continue in faith once satan is loosed for a little while. The remaining little flock of the ( 144,000) will be changed in the twinkling of an eye towards the end of the tribulation and will never taste death.
So what was the original sin?
 

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
Apr 12, 2012
4,663
763
113
80
Oregon
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gen 3:22b . . what if he should stretch out his hand and take also from the tree
of life and eat, and live forever.

The Hebrew word translated "forever" doesn't always indicate infinity. Normally it
just means indefinitely, i.e. having no exact limits.

Immortality makes people immune to the aging process. But although immortality
prevents people from dying of old age, it doesn't protect them from death by other
means, e.g. violence, poison, falls, starvation, dehydration, bleeding out,
decapitation, blunt force trauma, bullets, suffocation, crushing, etc.

On top of that; immortality isn't indelible, viz: the Serpent was able to take it away
from Adam (John 8:44, Heb 2:14) plus: the Serpent's ability extended to Adam's
posterity too because God somehow, in some way I've yet to understand, reckons
us all joint principals in Adam's disobedience. (Rom 5:12-21, 1Cor 15:21-22)

Anyway: people tend to take advantage of medicine in order to continue their bad
habits. For example; treatments for STDs enable immoral folk to continue their
swinging life style with little fear of permanent consequences. The same can be said
for folk with high cholesterol numbers. Statins make it possible for them to keep on
eating foods that are normally unsuitable for them.

Had Adam been allowed unlimited access to the tree of life, he and his wife
would've no doubt routinely included fruit from the forbidden tree in their diets
because the Serpent's detrimental effects on their health could've been easily
reversed seeing as according to Rev 22:1-2, the tree of life is useful for treating
whatever ails you.
_
 
Last edited:

Ronald David Bruno

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2020
3,866
1,897
113
Southern
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
We do not die physically because of anything Adam did. Adam died spiritually when he sinned, when he disobeyed God. He died physically because that was how he was created. He was not created immortal; rather he was created with a mortal physical body. So long as he obeyed, he was allowed to stay in the Garden wherein there was the Tree of Life which guarded against his physical dying. When he sinned, God ejected him from the garden and he no longer had access to the fruit of the Tree of Life. The result of that was that he eventually died the physical death which was an integral feature of the entire creation. Nothing about this creation was to last forever.

In Adam, meaning being a human being, all die physically. The wages of sin is (spiritual) death. Babies die because they are human.
That's one way of looking at it.
However, Adam and Eve were made perfect. The Garden was perfect, trees, plants and even animals were perfect (aside from the fact that evil was lurking: Satan was allowed in there to tempt them and the potential for evil > the Tree of Knowledge of Good and EVIL). It can't think that the presense of Satan and the potential of evil in the Garden was a perfect set up. No, because it wasn't intended to last. Likely they sinned within nine months of creation. Why do I say that? Because Eve was hot and it wouldn't take long before Adam figured out what sex was.
So the question is, with a perfect body and perfect food and without evil not released yet, what could physically cause them to die? Realize that death is a process of cells dying daily, organs and systems within breaking down, growing old and eventually no longer functioning.
This process started when sin came into the world and into their bodies.
Sin distorted creation down to the cellular level. Cells began to mutate and die that eventually had effects on their lives ... they started to age and o casionaly get sick. Plants and animals suffered the same distortions. Animals became fearful of man and now evil influenced their behavior. What was harmonious in the Garden, turned to discord. Animals, passive and friendly, immediately turned into predictors or prey and some very dangerous. The eco-system was physically infected with this harmful/distortion and defects began to emerge. Harmful bacteria and viruses began on that day to develop. Still, their bodies were well made and so they endured for 1000 years, but over many generations, we see that these mutations accumulated and became deadly.

So the wages of sin is both physical and spiritual death. You might ask, But what about the Tree of Life, they could 't have lived forever unless they ate of it? True. But this was God's plan all along, that we would know good and evil, and appreciate what good is and know Him. Think about it, we could not know what the meaning of mercy, forgiveness, healing, love, faith, kindness, joy, patience or peace unless we experience their opposites. When we experience pain and suffering, or despair, hate, hunger and death, then when good comes along, we really appreciate it, we really begin to understand what good is, who God is and all of His attributes.
 

Ronald David Bruno

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2020
3,866
1,897
113
Southern
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You question that God made them and creation imperfect? Wow. Do you know what good is? I guess you have 't learned what good is yet ... maybe you need some more evil in order to learn the difference?
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.
Gen. 1:31
 

Webers_Home

Well-Known Member
Apr 12, 2012
4,663
763
113
80
Oregon
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
.
Strictly speaking: the original sin was Adam's failure to comply with God's
instructions to abstain from eating from the tree of the knowledge of good
and evil (Rom 5:12-21). However, included in that sin, was Adam's listening
to his wife instead of listening to God.

"To Adam He said: Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree
about which I commanded you must not eat of it . . ." (Gen 3:17)

I don't know exactly what Eve told Adam, but she was obviously very
persuasive; and he caved.

* To this day women are very effective at getting men to sell their souls;
and to do wrong things against their better judgment.
_
 
  • Like
Reactions: TonyChanYT

Ronald David Bruno

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2020
3,866
1,897
113
Southern
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
.
Strictly speaking: the original sin was Adam's failure to comply with God's
instructions to abstain from eating from the tree of the knowledge of good
and evil (Rom 5:12-21). However, included in that sin, was Adam's listening
to his wife instead of listening to God.

"To Adam He said: Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree
about which I commanded you must not eat of it . . ." (Gen 3:17)

I don't know exactly what Eve told Adam, but she was obviously very
persuasive; and he caved.

* To this day women are very effective at getting men to sell their souls;
and to do wrong things against their better judgment.
_
"Can't live with em and can't live without em!"
When Adam first saw Eve, he must have said,
"WO ... MAN" and then, "THANK YOU LORD"!
But really, Adam took the fruit regardless of what she said. But then again, she didn't have to say anything ... she was naked! lol.
Seriously, woman do have this power of influence over man. They motivate us to do things we normally wouldn't do, mostly to do good more than evil.