.
Yes, its unusual to find someone else. Have you heard of the Triplex Via?
I could be a smart ___ and google it and say yes, but..... nope. I could guess at it but why do that.....
XP - I don't think you are made one with Christ at atonement.
At-ONE-ment? That sounds like it to me. I think it is interesting that the Greek also means reconcilliation.(Vines). If you get reconcilled, you are getting back together, you are not getting together for the first time.
Reconciled deals with your sin debt. Not the change HE wishes to produce in you. Unless you think the change is something that happens immediately at a sincere altar call. But that hasn't been a thought in the church for it's first 1800 years.....
XP - I would use 1 john 1 as my example. Those he wrote to had Christ as their mediator. I'd say that was "saved". Don't see Christ mediating for those that deny Him.
I don`t see them as being necessarily inclusive. They aren`t denying Him, they have come to Him and given the power to BECOME sons of God. In a way you could say saved from the fear of death but not saved Biblically which is saved from sin.
The inclusive thing confuses me here. Expound...pls? but yes they have the power to become, but JOHN was saying HE WAS a son of God.... Those he wrote to, he was trying to help get there. But they had Christ as their mediator. They were not yet IN HIM, but HE was presenting them to GOD and mediating for them. So as I see it, they are saved but they aren't yet mature.
XP - HOWEVER those that John wrote to, were not in fellowship with himself, God, and His Son.
Agreed!
Th
at's never happened before. Must be something wrong with you. :)
XP - They were saved but not in fellowship. They were saved and still sinned sometimes. They were in a process where they were going through the stages to maturity. Now, God will finish it, so where they are NOW is irrelevant and not worth worrying over. It doesn't matter WHEN GOD finishes it, but trust Him to get HIS job done.
There are only two types of men - sinners and saints, with a couple of stages in the sin stage. Outside of Christ, there are a few stages to go through. A few different shades of sinner.
Ok, but there are two types of saints. Perfect and imperfect, milk and meat, mature and immature.... same concepts different words for different folks to recognize them.
XP - So that person is saved, not yet mature. We'd need to start a thread on born again I guess to really progress this thought much further. I'm hoping this gives an example though......Salvation is.... saved from having to fear punishment/eternal death for your sins. It's the part that gives you the confidence to walk through the gate, to Him for Him to heal you and fix you and change you like the prodigal son arriving at home.
As I said, the Bible means saved as saved from sin. The confidence is what keeps people out of the kingdom - it is false. It is when men see this as it is preached pre revival, that men start to get into the kingdom through repenting.
Depending on how you mean; some of those words, which have become cliches to most I may or may not know what you are saying here. :)
As the verse says, it is baptism in the Spirit which saves us - not the water baptism of the Jews.
I don't think there is a verse that says that baptism saves you. We agree on the different baptisms, which is another scary thing.... but I think baptism in the Spirit is going to be a conversation about maturity, not salvation. BUT you may agree and just not know it. You seem to not admit that there is a saved and a mature person. Once we get you on board with the levels of "saved" person, we may be getting somewhere....
So are you saying that one is baptised in the Spirit when one first comes to Christ or does it happen (to some) at a later date?
Romans 6, a person is atoned for/saved.
Then you have a battle with obedience, through that battle you are being changed, being matured, God's working on reconstructing that mind and heart....
Then you receive a benefit, that benefit is / his seed/ his spirit/ him in you/ and other terms it's referred to as.
THE BENEFIT leads to sanctification, and this sanctification is the finished changed.
There is a period that you have Christ mediating for you, you need to confess, you still drop the ball, but you ARE saved. If you are sincerely running the race, it's as good as done because GOD promises he'll get you there. So you should have confidence and feel welcome to come home. Then you get that benefit, HIM in you, and HIM in you finishes the deal. You are fully changed then. That's where I see born again.
The danger I see is people are taught they are born again, before they are. They are taught they are indwelled by the Spirit but that the flesh will be with them til they die. That is directly against scripture. But when you face those verses you just push them aside or find a way to explain them away. Because you were taught you had a prize and you were walking around like the emperor with his new clothes on and you had nothing..... That is why I hold my position so much in these chats. If I loved my neighbor at all, I'll take the abuse and continue to try to help them reconcile.
Now I use the pronoun "you" in a general sense often. The you above is a more generic thing, not you personally.
bd
