Scripture in Context

[mailmandan]

Colossians 1:21-23
And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
IF ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven.

*A condition is given here to be righteous before the Lord which is IF we continue in the faith.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This one actually contains a clear statement that is being misrepresented as though your continued righteousness is based on your continued faith. However, that's not what the passage says.

To whom:

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works,

Regarding what:
yet now hath he reconciled

How:
In the body of his flesh through death,

Why:
to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

And now your conditional clause:
IF ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven.

This is what is called a "first class" condition. It's like saying, you drive in the race, IF you are a driver. If you aren't a driver, you are not driving in the race. It's not saying, if you aren't a driver, you've stopped driving the race.

If you are continuing (present active, that is, ongoing) in the faith, grounded (perfect tense - remains done) and settled . . . then this is you, you've been reconciled to God.

Much love!

The word "IF" here in Colossians 1:23 is not ean, but ei with the indicative, having here the idea of "assuming that you continue in the faith."
That is, continuance would show that the person's faith was firmly rooted and established in the hope of the gospel, and they really HAVE BEEN reconciled. The form of this phrase in Greek (using the Greek. particle ei and the indicative mood of the verb epimenō) indicates that Paul fully expects that the Colossian believers will continue in the faith, yet there are exceptions.

It makes sense that Paul would speak this way because he is addressing groups of people who all "profess" to be Christians without being able to infallibly know the actual state of every person's heart. How can Paul avoid giving them false assurance of salvation here when in fact some of them may not be saved? Paul knows that faith which is firmly grounded and established in the gospel from the start will continue. Those who continue in the faith show thereby that they are genuine believers.

Just as we see in 1 Corinthians 15:1,2 - Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast (demonstrative evidence of faith being firmly rooted and established) that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. To believe in vain is to believe without cause or without effect, to no purpose. If as some are saying in Corinth, there is no resurrection, then faith is vain and worthless (vs. 14). The people who fail to hold fast to the word (the gospel) that Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, demonstrated that they "believed in vain" (did not truly believe).

 

[Taken]

So here is a recent list posted to show we can become "unsaved" after being "saved". I'm putting these words in quotes, because the Bible doesn't really talk that way. It talks of being born again, and it talks of being "in Christ".

Hi marks ~
Disagree that Gods gift of Salvation God gives a man can thereafter be revoked.

I believe there is A HUGE distinction between…
WITH and WITHIN.

Can a man be “enlightened”?
Sure.
What does “enlightened”mean?
Learn about something particular.

In this particular instance…Learning about the Word of God.

Okay, so a person is learning about the Word of God. Hearing / Reading.

And what happens for that hearing/reading person?
According to Scripture, God is giving that person a BLESSING OF THE SPIRIT of GOD…measures of FAITH “for hearing/reading the Word of God”.

And what is the POINT, for a person to RECEIVE a BLESSING OF FAITH, from the SPIRIT OF GOD?

THAT is the KEY, to which a person CAN BELIEVE what he is HEARING.

IS, Gods SPIRIT “IN” THAT person?
No. He is in a “stage” of hearing (being enlightened), which indicates he is hearing that which he has not BEFORE heard.

So, he is hearing (being enlightened) to that which he has not before heard.
And WHILE he is Hearing, God is supernaturally blessing that person with HIS Gift of FAITH, (NOT the Gift of Gods Holy Baptism) that enables the person TO BELIEVE what he IS Hearing.

Can that person STOP Hearing the Word of God? Of course.

Can that person STOP Believing the Word of God, that he DID hear? Of course.

“WAS” that person, “enlightened”…Yes. The whole times that person “WAS” hearing the Word of God, that person was being “enlightened”.

Did that person, while being “enlightened”, receive Gods gift of FAITH? Yes.

IS God the Holy Spirit? Yes.
IS ANY Gift from God, a Gift from the Holy Spirit? Yes.

IS the Gift of the Holy Spirit…called “FAITH” conditional? Yes.

Conditional … how so ?
One must RECEIVE the Word of God, BEFORE they can be GIFTED with FAITH to BELIEVE what they are “Hearing”.

If a person HEARS a little of Gods Word…the Gift of Faith, parallels and IS of little measure.

IS a person with a LITTLE measure of Faith, acceptable unto God, for a person TO “CONFESS” their Belief IN the Lord God?

Yes.

NOTICE the difference…
A person hearing, being enlightened, receiving a blessing of faith, believing ….

And something Different happening….
1) the person STOPS hearing
Or
2) the person “CONFESSES” he Believes.

Fact is the person WHO STOPS hearing…
Was enlightened
Did receive a Blessing of the Holy Spirit
And God “WAS” “WITH” that person.
And the person”WAS” “WITH” God.

When that person STOPPED Hearing…
God STOPPED blessing that man with Measures of increased Faith (Belief).
That person is called:
Having FALLEN FROM FAITH.
(It does not SAY the person RECEIVED Salvation, THEN his Salvation was REVOKED)

Salvation is a Different GIFT (than FAITH), while each Gift IS a Gift from the Holy Spirit.

A man receiving the Holy Spirit’s gift of FAITH, can be short lived, BECAUSE the person can Freely choose to STOP Hearing, STOP receiving the Holy Spirits gift of FAITH.

A man receiving the Holy Spirit’s gift of SALVATION, is permanent, BECAUSE the person MADE a vow (a Covenant, Promise, an Agreement…whatever term one wants to use.)… WITH the Holy Spirit to KEEP that person FOREVER IN Belief.

How DOES a person MAKE such a vow?
According to the WAY, the Lord (Way) Himself revealed….

1) CONFESSION of the persons Belief.
2) CONFESSION expressly of the persons Heart’s belief.

What is the meaning of a “heart’s belief” ?

The natural heart of a person is where the natural truths of a person are hidden and known exclusively to that individual and God.
Those “natural heart hidden truths” are called: the SPIRIT OF MAN.

Communication TO God IS ALWAYS,
via spirit to Spirit.
Communication FROM God IS ALWAYS,
via Spirit to spirit.

Translated….truth to Truth…Truth to truth.

A person Hearing, being enlightened, gifted with the Holy Spirit’s gift of FAITH…
Neither REQUIRES or INDICATES ANY communication between the persons spirit and Gods Spirit.

All that is occurring….IS God IS “WITH” that person…..and the person IS “WITH” God….
If and when the person “walks away, leaves”….Neither is “WITH” the other.

A CONFESSION of BELIEF entirely CHANGES
The “WITH” factor…..to Gods Spirit COMING “INTO” that person.

And not to over look….God is not mocked or fooled or tricked by LAME words of CONFESSION (that may impress other men).
God DOES what He teaches….TEST, VERIFY what you HEAR, is True.

God Searches a persons Heart, that the CONFESSION of their natural spirit…BE TRUE.
If it BE TRUE…He becomes the KEEPER (aka, the supreme Power) of that persons Faith, from there forward…FOREVER.

If that persons CONFESSION of their natural spirit … BE FALSE…uh oh. That person has LIED to the Holy Spirit…and instantly forfeited Gods OFFERING of SALVATION to ever be given to OR received by or possessed by that individual.

That persons hearing, being enlightened, having received Gods blessing of Faith, and then Leaving or giving a False Confession…
Is a SHAME unto God, and intolerable to God to extend His Gift of Salvation to a person who has SHAMED God: particularly before other men….
In such a case as a man saying he believes…then saying he does not believe.

Thus…
Receipt of Gods Gift of FAITH is one thing.
Receipt of Gods Gift of SALVATION is another thing.
Believing is one thing.
Confession of belief is another thing.

And to ADD to the MIX…
The DIFFERENCE between…WHEN God “tests, validates, ie searches” a mans spirit in the mans heart”…

While the man IS still bodily ALIVE, (which falls under the new “better testament” that is Salvation offered to LIVING men, by, though, of Christ Jesus)…..
Or
Bodily physically dead men, whose spirit is searched AFTER a physical death, TO DISCOVER, IF at the moment their body physically DIED, that their natural spirit BELIEVED…if so, they ARE, by the Power of God, given their soul salvation then…(They having endured Believing until their end…of bodily life.)

Gods Gift of salvation is a gift OFFERING to all men that has already been paid for.
The Gift has a condition that the individual must be willing to Take and have Receipt / Possession of that gift, for it to be of profit unto that man.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[marks]

It makes sense that Paul would speak this way because he is addressing groups of people who all "profess" to be Christians without being able to infallibly know the actual state of every person's heart. How can Paul avoid giving them false assurance of salvation here when in fact some of them may not be saved? Paul knows that faith which is firmly grounded and established in the gospel from the start will continue. Those who continue in the faith show thereby that they are genuine believers.

This is something to be kept in mind as we read Paul's letters, and the others as well. Many verses that people post to supposedly show a loseable salvation are actually about determining the true from the false.

Much love!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I've seldom found that those who post such lists actually know the meanings of the passages in context.

Sadly, those that embrace false doctrines have had their understanding darkened, as to no longer be able to see and understand according to God's point of view... since they have put themselves in a position to be in opposition to God's point of view.

All your blah, blah, blah, is just a long drawn out way of saying the Apostle Paul was not being led by the Holy Spirit and actually told a lie in 1 Corinthians 9:27

Those suffering from Cherry Pickers Syndrome do not believe all the Lord says concerning salvation and can only acknowledge a few verses that support the preconceived ideas taught to them by their handlers at the OSAS Cabal Association Community Delegation of Frustration (OCACDF)

Before he croaked, their highest honored adherent was their boy Gnarly Charlie Stanley

In his book, Eternal Security, Stanley says

"Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy” (Chapter 10, p. 93)

“Christ will not deny an unbelieving Christian his or her salvation because to do so would be to deny Himself” (p. 94).

“Believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation, for God remains faithful” (p. 94)

He actually taught one can be a "gay christian" and still go to Heaven proving he is a false teacher!

Here's a video where you can see video of Charlies saying this (just a few minutes into the video)

In this video, Gnarly Charlie says he's proud of Andy and supports him after heresy charges

Can a Person Live a Life of Sin and Remain Saved?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

What I'm saying, is, and there we live. You are saying, there we live, maybe, as long as we continue to stay there. Jesus "keeps us saved", we do not "keep ourselves saved".

Some folks just don't accept what Jesus teaches....

John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

John 15:5
IF A MAN ABIDE NOT IN ME, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!


Those that Turned Away from the Lord
(*They were born again... turned away from the Lord, and became UN-saved)

2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when THEY will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And THEY shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

James 5:19,20
Brethren, if any of YOU do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Let him know, that he which converts the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

*By addressing this to “BRETHREN” we know this is speaking to believers who turned from the truth and if they are converted back to the truth, the soul of the person that had fallen away is being saved from spiritual death which is separation from God.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying (contradicting, Not agreeing with) the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
And through covetousness (idolatry) shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (no self control, living after the flesh), and denying (contradicting, opposing Jesus’ teachings) the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (referring to false teachers and false brethren - see Matthew 13:24-30)

(Deny = Strong's G0720… to contradict, disavow, reject, deny, refuse - and Strong's G4483… the idea of pouring forth, to utter, speak of or say, command)

Jude 1:17-21
Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These are those who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)

 

[mailmandan]

Eisegesis - an interpretation, especially of Scripture, that expresses the interpreter's own ideas, bias, or the like, rather than the meaning of the text.

 

[Debp]

here is a recent list posted to show we can become "unsaved" after being "saved". I'm putting these words in quotes, because the Bible doesn't really talk that way. It talks of being born again, and it talks of being "in Christ".

Thanks so much for explaining indepth what these verses are really talking about....they are not saying we can lose our salvation. You are putting the verses into their proper context which is needed!

I hope you will continue to expound on these types of verses to show the eternal security we have in our Lord.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I hope you will continue to expound on these types of verses to show the eternal security we have in our Lord.

And further IGNORE God's warnings He spoke to His people in the rest of His Word by only believing a few happy verses and throwing the rest of God's Word in the trash.

'Ol slewfoot does get happy when people reject the rest of God's Word... make his job much easier!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Eisegesis - an interpretation, especially of Scripture, that expresses the interpreter's own ideas, bias, or the like, rather than the meaning of the text.

That's exactly what the OSAS people do by rejecting the whole counsel of God and instead only accepting a few happy verses.

Another way of saying it is they have preconceived ideas so they read in to scripture what they want it to say rather than allowing the scripture to teach them what God's view point actually is.

 

[mailmandan]

That's exactly what the OSAS people do by rejecting the whole counsel of God and instead only accepting a few happy verses.

Another way of saying it is they have preconceived ideas so they read in to scripture what they want it to say rather than allowing the scripture to teach them what God's view point actually is.

Oh the IRONY.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Oh the IRONY.

Yeah, it is so ironic that the OSAS peoples claim to be teaching truth without accepting all the Lord says concerning salvation. Weird.

 

[mailmandan]

Yeah, it is so ironic that the OSAS peoples claim to be teaching truth without accepting all the Lord says concerning salvation. Weird.

What's weird is your anti-OSAS derangement syndrome. That's what happens when you remain a shut in and don't fellowship with Christians at church.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

What's weird is your anti-OSAS derangement syndrome. That's what happens when you remain a shut in and don't fellowship with Christians at church.

Spoken like an extreme sufferer of Cherry Pickers Syndrome!

And, I'm not a shut in at all. I have numerous Christians folks I fellowship with outside of church... cause all the churches in my area suffer from acute Cherry Pickers Syndrome where you would be right at home, homie!

 

[mailmandan]

Spoken like an extreme sufferer of Cherry Pickers Syndrome!

And, I'm not a shut in at all. I have numerous Christians folks I fellowship with outside of church... cause all the churches in my area suffer from acute Cherry Pickers Syndrome where you would be right at home, homie! View attachment 38088

I don't cherry pick. I read Scripture in context and properly harmonize Scripture with Scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine. Your continued childish troll behavior is noted.

 

[Debp]

I don't cherry pick. I read Scripture in context and properly harmonize Scripture with Scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine. Your continued childish troll behavior is noted.

Amen.

I don't want to argue with Big Boy about eternal security. But I do want to point out that we don't just believe in "happy verses." Also, we believe in holy living, walking in the Spirit.

But we walk in the Spirit because it is a life of peace and contentment to walk with Jesus...we don't walk with the Lord out of fear of losing salvation. That must be a horrible way to live.

 

[MatthewG]

The word "IF" here in Colossians 1:23 is not ean, but ei with the indicative, having here the idea of "assuming that you continue in the faith."
That is, continuance would show that the person's faith was firmly rooted and established in the hope of the gospel, and they really HAVE BEEN reconciled. The form of this phrase in Greek (using the Greek. particle ei and the indicative mood of the verb epimenō) indicates that Paul fully expects that the Colossian believers will continue in the faith, yet there are exceptions.

It makes sense that Paul would speak this way because he is addressing groups of people who all "profess" to be Christians without being able to infallibly know the actual state of every person's heart. How can Paul avoid giving them false assurance of salvation here when in fact some of them may not be saved? Paul knows that faith which is firmly grounded and established in the gospel from the start will continue. Those who continue in the faith show thereby that they are genuine believers.

Just as we see in 1 Corinthians 15:1,2 - Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast (demonstrative evidence of faith being firmly rooted and established) that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. To believe in vain is to believe without cause or without effect, to no purpose. If as some are saying in Corinth, there is no resurrection, then faith is vain and worthless (vs. 14). The people who fail to hold fast to the word (the gospel) that Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, demonstrated that they "believed in vain" (did not truly believe).

Still wouldnt rule out that it is not possible for a person to also renounce faith. Other than that good post.

 

[marks]

Thanks so much for explaining indepth what these verses are really talking about....they are not saying we can lose our salvation. You are putting the verses into their proper context which is needed!

I hope you will continue to expound on these types of verses to show the eternal security we have in our Lord.

I'll work towards completing the list.

I'm glad you are being blessed by this!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Those suffering from Cherry Pickers Syndrome do not believe all the Lord says concerning salvation and can only acknowledge a few verses that support the preconceived ideas taught to them

If you'll pay attention I'm showing exactly the opposite, how when verses are removed from context - Cherry Picked - you can make them seem to say all sorts of things, as you have.

I wonder that you've actually read my posts! But if you do you will see the real meanings of these passage, and you can learn, and grow.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Some folks just don't accept what Jesus teaches....

John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

John 15:5
IF A MAN ABIDE NOT IN ME, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!


Those that Turned Away from the Lord
(*They were born again... turned away from the Lord, and became UN-saved)

2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when THEY will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And THEY shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

James 5:19,20
Brethren, if any of YOU do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Let him know, that he which converts the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

*By addressing this to “BRETHREN” we know this is speaking to believers who turned from the truth and if they are converted back to the truth, the soul of the person that had fallen away is being saved from spiritual death which is separation from God.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying (contradicting, Not agreeing with) the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
And through covetousness (idolatry) shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (no self control, living after the flesh), and denying (contradicting, opposing Jesus’ teachings) the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (referring to false teachers and false brethren - see Matthew 13:24-30)

(Deny = Strong's G0720… to contradict, disavow, reject, deny, refuse - and Strong's G4483… the idea of pouring forth, to utter, speak of or say, command)

Jude 1:17-21
Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These are those who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)

Cool! More to show their meanings! Thank you! This helps on the slow days!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Eisegesis - an interpretation, especially of Scripture, that expresses the interpreter's own ideas, bias, or the like, rather than the meaning of the text.

All we have to do is put the eisegesis and the exogesis side by side and you can easily see the difference.

Much love!