Scripture in Context

[marks]

by only believing a few happy verses and throwing the rest of God's Word in the trash.

Here again . . . my posts are showing the real meaning when you actually stop ignoring other passages. I'm putting these verses in context with the rest of Scripture, as the antidote to your Cherry Picking.

And sharing your poor opinions of others, that's your idea of righteousness? It doesn't seem so to me. Generally I find that people become insulting because they think they need the extra verbal energy because they know their arguments are either shallow or false. Or it may be feeling emotional pressure. But when you start bad-mouthing others, it's not a good sign!

Much love!

 

[marks]

But we walk in the Spirit because it is a life of peace and contentment to walk with Jesus...we don't walk with the Lord out of fear of losing salvation. That must be a horrible way to live.

I know it!! The one thing that most revolutionized my relationship with God was realizing He will never let me go! That reconciliation to God is forever, and rebirth is forever. So many become enamoured with the idea that contribute towards the success of being saved, and its Pride Pride Pride. Trusting in one's self, instead of Jesus.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Still wouldnt rule out that it is not possible for a person to also renounce faith. Other than that good post.

If you are born again, that's not something you will do.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

If you are born again, that's not something you will do.

Much love!

You never know, only God knows the heart.

 

[marks]

You never know, only God knows the heart.

Actually, Scripture tells us we can know.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Ephesians 5:3-7
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

*One must cease from sin for the work of Christ to be applicable to them.

1 Corinthians 6:9,10
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
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Context, even just one more verse . . .

1 Corinthians 6:11 KJV
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Simply stated, "These people won't inherit from God. And you used to be one of them, so don't do the things they do."

1 Corinthians 6:20 KJV
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Much love!

 

[Debp]

Context, even just one more verse . . .

1 Corinthians 6:11 KJV
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Simply stated, "These people won't inherit from God. And you used to be one of them, so don't do the things they do."

1 Corinthians 6:20 KJV
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Thanks for putting all of the verses in context. Maybe you can put the title of "in Context" in bold? So others that are quickly browsing can see it...

I'm reading it all and usually I avoid long posts!

 

[marks]

Revelation 21:7,8
He that overcomes shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be My son. (abide In Christ!)
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers (man whores), and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (These things, and all sin, must be confessed and forsaken to avoid going to hell!)

Hm. There's nothing here that speaks at all of God's children becoming "unreborn". Something here really stands out, though, "all liars", I'm thinking about all the false things some members here post about others. Not good!

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Revelation 9:21
And they did not repent of their murders, or their sorceries, or their sexual immorality, or their thefts

Same as above . . . even without additional context this is about the unrepentant, not the born again.
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Romans 1:28-32
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

OK, I think the guy who put together this list was just bulking it up.

Even so, a little more context . . .

Romans 1:17-22 KJV The redeemed The unredeemed
17) For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18) For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19) Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Romans 1:28 KJV
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Reprobate . . . "rejected after testing" . . . proven to be unrepentant. Not the born again.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

Actually, Scripture tells us we can know.

Much love!

All the best! The writer of Hebrews talks about those who once had the holy spirit, and then eventually became unbelieving. I believe that a person can either have a faithful believing heart, sometimes they may waver with doubt here and there like the old prophets of old, or they can have an unbelieving heart that decides to reject God altogether, even after having believed, however, please do not believe me about any of it. I know that at one point in time, there was a choice to continue to have faith in ones life or to discontinue. God allowed the choice to be made and still would allow people to walk away from him if they so choose. Some people don't believe you have a choice though, you are just forced to believe and that is it.

Whether or not you believe me personally, does not matter at all. People must always decide for themselves.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

So many become enamoured with the idea that contribute towards the success of being saved, and its Pride Pride Pride. Trusting in one's self, instead of Jesus.

And it's the false belief that man is not accountable for his actions... that make people believe they can live in sin and still be saved!

OSAS doctrine is a stumbling block to others when the OSAS people go around telling people "it's not possible to lose their salvation" when the Lord clearly warns us in His Word that it is possible.

False teachers claiming their opinions are in "context" does not prove that the wartnings of God written to Christians are not true... it simply proves those that don't accept all the Lord says about salvation are confused..

Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
God gave man free will... if man chooses to turn and walk away from the Lord, God will let them do so.

Romans 1:28
they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do what ought not to be done

The gifts and callings of God are without repentance which means God cannot violate our free will and save us anyway IF we choose to go back to our sin which is living in darkness. In God there is NO darkness. (1 John 1:5)

This is a major biblical truth the OSAS crowd always explains away or denies is simply this... God is NOT mocked, what we sow is what we reap - if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption. (Gal 6:7,8)

In Gal 6:8, the word corruption is...

G5356
fthora from G5351; decay, i.e. ruin -- corruption, destroy, perish.

G5351
strengthened from phthio (to pine or waste); properly, to shrivel or wither, i.e. to spoil or to ruin, by moral influences, to deprave): -- corrupt (self), defile, destroy.

If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!

Adam and Eve were given eternal life by the Lord when He created them... but when they sinned against God they became corrupt and died spiritually and became separated from God. So Gal 6:7,8 is quite the quandary, quite the state of uncertainty and perplexity for the adherents of OSAS doctrine.

 

[marks]

1 Timothy 1:8-11
But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
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Again this passage makes no comment on whether the born again die again. The Law was given to govern the ungodly. Those who are in Christ are governed by Christ.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Ezekiel 18:26,27
When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, and dies in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. Again, when the wicked man turns away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

Ezekiel 18:20 (see Romans 8:13)
The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Ezekiel 18:20-24 (see Romans 8:13)
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Ezekiel 33:13
When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it

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This is more interesting, as we have a greater context to look at, the "Old Testament". The Law and the Prophets.

God made a covenant with Israel at Mt. Horeb:

Exodus 19:3-6 KJV
3) And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel;
4) Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
5) Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6) And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

If you will obey my voice.

Leviticus 18:1-5 KJV
1) And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2) Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, I am the LORD your God.
3) After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances.
4) Ye shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances, to walk therein: I am the LORD your God.
5) Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the LORD.

If you obey God, you will live in that obedience. This was God's covenant with His chosen nation, Israel. In that covenant, the righteous will live by their works.

Romans 1:16-18 KJV
16) For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17) For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18) For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Romans 10:1-5 KJV
1) Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2) For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3) For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4) For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5) For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

The Old Covenant was based on your obedience giving you life, and your disobedience being covered by continued animal sacrifices.

Jesus has, by one sacrifice,

Hebrews 10:1-10 KJV
1) For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2) For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3) But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4) For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5) Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6) In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7) Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8) Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9) Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10) By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

The first is removed, and the second is established.

Under the covenant made between God and Israel at Mt. Horeb, man's obedience determined his standing with God Under the new covenant, our standing with God is not by our works, but in Christ.

We aren't even given opportunity to establish "righteousness through works",

1 Corinthians 1:27-31 KJV
27) But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28) And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29) That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30) But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31) That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. (see 2 Corinthians 5:15 says….Jesus died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto Him which died for them, and rose again.)


Romans 8:5-14 KJV
5) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10) And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11) But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.


Flesh . . . mind the things of flesh, being fleshy minded is death, the fleshy mind is always God's enemy, and cannot obey or please God, if you live after the flesh you die.

Spirit . . . mind the things of the Spirit, is life and peace, you are in the Spirit if the Spirit lives in you, the Spirit gives life, the Spirit will raise you by His Spirit living in you, we don't have to live after the flesh, but if we kill the deeds of the body we live.

This is a continuing series of contrasts, flesh and spirit, death and life, giving information about each of these. Is this to signify a return to the OT Law and Prophets? No, it is not. Is this to signify a return from Spirit to flesh? No. This passage is telling us, death is in the flesh, life is in the Spirit.

Romans 8:2 KJV
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Matthew 10:32,33
Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
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This is a simple statement of truth. However, there is nothing to say that God's children will deny Him.

Romans 8:14-17 KJV
14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16) The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17) And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

We know the testimony of the Holy Spirit in our lives, and by the Holy Spirit, we know God as our Father.
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Matthew 6:14,15
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
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Something that many people seem to forget, Jesus taught those who were under the Law. This is a passage that has confused many people.

Colossians 3:12-14 KJV
12) Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
13) Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
14) And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

Ephesians 4:31-32 KJV
31) Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32) And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Under the Covenant of Law that God made with Israel at Mt Horeb, in Jesus' teaching on the mount, your right standing with God was based on what you do. And so Jesus taught, forgive, so you can be forgiven.

Under the New Covenant, we are forgiven, and so we are to forgive others. It's reversed. And that's why. Our justification is in Christ, not our works.

Much love!

 

[marks]

John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
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I'm seeing three different branches in that passage, two that are in Christ, and one that is not.

John 15:1-6 KJV
1) I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2) Every (1) branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every (2) branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3) Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4) Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5) I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6) If (3) a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

There is
1 - a branch in Christ that bears fruit.
2 - a branch in Christ that does not bear fruit.
3 - a branch not in Christ, that is cast out.

In this passage, what defines those who we call "saved"? Is it being called a branch? Or is it being called "in Christ"?

In Romans, Paul talks of natural branches, and wild branches, that can be grafted in. The wild branch is called a branch even not being grafted into the tree, so in that place, it does not mean "born again". Also in Romans, and in a variety of places, "in Christ" is both directly stated, and implicit to rebirth and salvation.

Here in John, Jesus is speaking concerning the branch in Him that bears fruit, the branch in Him that doesn't bear fruit, and the branch that is not in Him.

Much love!

 

[Wick Stick]

Still waiting for Heb 6:4-6.

 

[MatthewG]

“Take care, brothers and sisters, that there will not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. But encourage one another every day, as long as it is still called “today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we keep the beginning of our commitment firm until the end, while it is said, “Today if you hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts, as when they provoked Me.””
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭3‬:‭12‬-‭15‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Hebrews 3:12-15 Take care, brothers and sisters, that there will not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. But encourage one another every day, as long as it is still ca | New American Standard Bible - N

Take care, brothers and sisters, that there will not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. But encourage one another every day, as long as it is still ca

bible.com

“Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and about the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. And this we will do, if God permits. For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6‬:‭1‬-‭6‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Hebrews 6:6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

bible.com

 

[APAK]

John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm seeing three different branches in that passage, two that are in Christ, and one that is not.

John 15:1-6 KJV
1) I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2) Every (1) branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every (2) branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3) Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4) Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5) I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6) If (3) a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

There is
1 - a branch in Christ that bears fruit.
2 - a branch in Christ that does not bear fruit.
3 - a branch not in Christ, that is cast out.

In this passage, what defines those who we call "saved"? Is it being called a branch? Or is it being called "in Christ"?

In Romans, Paul talks of natural branches, and wild branches, that can be grafted in. The wild branch is called a branch even not being grafted into the tree, so in that place, it does not mean "born again". Also in Romans, and in a variety of places, "in Christ" is both directly stated, and implicit to rebirth and salvation.

Here in John, Jesus is speaking concerning the branch in Him that bears fruit, the branch in Him that doesn't bear fruit, and the branch that is not in Him.

Much love!

Late coming to your thread marks. Back to John 15:1-5 and 8 with my quick assessment, and to foot stomp the local context and reason for Yahshua's words as I see them.

@Big Boy Johnson might want to read this post and consider it.

Verses 1 – 8​

Yahshua used a vivid metaphorical illustration to demonstrate that he is the only source of life and spiritual growth. It is not about losing one’s salvation.

In the Upper Room, the night before his arrest and trial he wished to inform his apostles about the source of life and the significance on relying on Christ during their impending mission ahead, whether they realized it all or not at that time.

Further, the use of illustrations and metaphors are not suited to build an entire doctrine and basis for truth. Using scripture for different sources, in context, is the best choice for this aim.

The images of vines, branches, gardening is used so that any person can understand it. This scripture is to make the point that Yahshua is the source of all human spiritual life and growth.

In verse 5b, ‘… for apart from me you can do nothing…” This does not sound like Yahshua is saying that if a believer is apart from him, then all is lost, spiritually. He is saying no one can and they will not grow spiritually, produce fruit, without using or depending on the spirit of God to feed them through Yahshu’a spirit, as his spirit dwells within them as the root of the vine that feeds its (their) branches.

Another point worth mentioning is that in Yahshua’s illustration here, it completely glosses over the fact that believers are ALREADY attached/abiding in/to the vine. If we were to follow this metaphor to the extreme, as many folks do, then first we, before coming to Christ. as an unbeliever, we would not be attached to the vine, we would be at first as a shriveled-up branch or even worse, already a burned up branch. So how do we become first attached to the vine? And scripture does not teach we are first all believers, attached to the vine and if we ‘fall away’ then we lose our original default believer status. And this is because Yahshua is not trying to make this ridiculous point, or any point concerning salvation.

Now that would not make any sense at all, and the bottom line of the illustration would be lost. These metaphoric illustrations cannot become reality for all scenarios imaginable, plausible or possible as some people search for all of them, and they are not designed to be that, or convey them at all.

Scripture does, however, speak to imposters of the faith that they will ‘fall away’ as they were never of the truth faith. (see 1 John 2:19 and John 10:28-29)

This parable or illustration is lesson concerning being barren or fruitfulness as a result of abiding in Yahshua, and not a teaching about salvation at all. The fiery judgment for believers is found in 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 where their works will be tested by fire, although the believer will themselves be always saved.

Verse 8​

“This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourself to be my disciples”

And further, remember that Yahshua is speaking to his disciples, and they must produce much fruit for the glory of his Father. Their mission is of crucial importance to the growth of the Body, the vine of Yahshua.

He is not preaching that they will lose their salvation, only that they can decrease their fruit spiritual production, if they do not focus and stay close in the spirit of Yahshua throughout their mission of evangelism and performing miracles and forgiving sin. They are not to become sidetracked into the affairs of the world and into themselves of human pride etc.

 

[marks]

John 15:1,2
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

John 15:5
IF A MAN ABIDE NOT IN ME, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

*** WHO... is to do the abiding according to Jesus???? That’s right, WE are!

From Post 54:

I'm seeing three different branches in that passage, two that are in Christ, and one that is not.

John 15:1-6 KJV
1) I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2) Every (1) branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every (2) branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3) Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4) Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5) I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6) If (3) a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

There is
1 - a branch in Christ that bears fruit.
2 - a branch in Christ that does not bear fruit.
3 - a branch not in Christ, that is cast out.

In this passage, what defines those who we call "saved"? Is it being called a branch? Or is it being called "in Christ"?

In Romans, Paul talks of natural branches, and wild branches, that can be grafted in. The wild branch is called a branch even not being grafted into the tree, so in that place, it does not mean "born again". Also in Romans, and in a variety of places, "in Christ" is both directly stated, and implicit to rebirth and salvation.

Here in John, Jesus is speaking concerning the branch in Him that bears fruit, the branch in Him that doesn't bear fruit, and the branch that is not in Him.

From one of my Interlinears,


Something interesting to notice, "remain ye" is an Aorist tense, like our simple past tense. "Bearing fruit" is Present Active, that is, ongoing.

Remaining in Jesus, according to the grammar of the passage, is something you did, and bearing fruit is something you do now.

But again the simplest way to understand the passage is to recognize that "not remaining" in Christ does not imply that you were once "in Christ".

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

Sadly, those that embrace false doctrines have had their understanding darkened, as to no longer be able to see and understand according to God's point of view... since they have put themselves in a position to be in opposition to God's point of view.

All your blah, blah, blah, is just a long drawn out way of saying the Apostle Paul was not being led by the Holy Spirit and actually told a lie in 1 Corinthians 9:27

Those suffering from Cherry Pickers Syndrome do not believe all the Lord says concerning salvation and can only acknowledge a few verses that support the preconceived ideas taught to them by their handlers at the OSAS Cabal Association Community Delegation of Frustration (OCACDF)

Before he croaked, their highest honored adherent was their boy Gnarly Charlie Stanley

In his book, Eternal Security, Stanley says

"Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy” (Chapter 10, p. 93)

“Christ will not deny an unbelieving Christian his or her salvation because to do so would be to deny Himself” (p. 94).

“Believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation, for God remains faithful” (p. 94)

He actually taught one can be a "gay christian" and still go to Heaven proving he is a false teacher!

Here's a video where you can see video of Charlies saying this (just a few minutes into the video)

In this video, Gnarly Charlie says he's proud of Andy and supports him after heresy charges

Can a Person Live a Life of Sin and Remain Saved?

AND that be the problem my friend . many have so blindly accepted an acroym and yet has no idea where that acroynm
is leading them too and FROM . THEY been led FROM the teachings and reminders of JESUS , of the apostels
which contradict their acroynm . And charles stanely was not alone either . ITS leads them to this idea .
NO matter what I DO i just cant LOSE SALVATION . and yet many things the SPIRIT itself INSPIRED through Even the apostels
they disregaurd . THEY DISREGAURD the very things which HELP TO KEEP THE CHURCH SAFE and FROM FALLING . OOPS .

 

[amigo de christo]

And many of them now are fast to embrace the universal love lie .
Well , i got admit about every group whether osas or noosas is embracing that lie .
But , WHY COME , HOW COME , them OSAS ones WONT life a finger to help me TO REMIND
about the gospel and to EXPOSE THE LOVEY DO LIE . I mean they claim we need to believe iN JESUS
every time i remind us about some of his reminders , AND YET when the all inclusive lovey do speakes
WHO SAYS it dont matter what religoin one is of , THEY FINE so long as they lovey do , THEY LISTEN TO THESE CHARLATONS
and in fact we got some here who think me A MONSTER for two reasons . A , cause i wont shut up about the DIRE NEED
to BELIEVE ON JESUS and EXPOSE the FALSE LOVEY DO LIE and
B , cause oh my i actually remind the church about the dire need to continue in CHRIST to the end . TO HOLD THE FAITH FIRM IN HIM .
WE GOT PROBLEMS . ENOUGH with the lips of men . ITS TIME TO SEE SOME CONTENDING FOR THE TRUE FAITH .
PUT YOUR WORDS INTO ACTION and stop heeding the lovey do lies of men gone wrong . EXPOSE THAT HARLOT
and preachJESUS CHRIST . YEAH lets do that shall we ............