Polygamy

[Comm.Arnold]

Hi Comm Arnold,

Thanks for your reply.

I have to admit I'm still baffled.

Have you put this matter into God's hands, asking Him to bring your wife to you, or, to lead you to her?

Have you asked the Lord to prepare you for marriage? To give you an understanding about Godly marriage, from scripture?

Have you understood that you yourself are to be focused on God first, holding Him as your Head, so as to minister Him to your wife and children, becoming the kind of man his wife can easily 'reverence', justifying their trust in the judgment He gives you on their behalf?


The scripture saith not in vain, Proverbs 30:18, 19 There be three [things which] are too wonderful for me, yea, four which I know not: the way of an eagle in the air; the way of a serpent upon a rock; the way of a ship in the midst of the sea; and the way of a man with a maid.

When you have peace with God about His choice of spouse, you will know how to behave with her, and other women won't even know what's going on, if you are discreet in a godly way - for the sake of the woman God brings into your life to bless you as your wife.

Recommended listening are Paul Washer's presentations on dating (which he calls 'recreational dating'), husbands, wives, sons (Raising the Bar), godly women, and, Jim Logan's presentations on Husband as Spiritual Protector, wives, and also, spiritual dating. All are online.

If you don't understand these basics, or you refuse to grow into what is required of you by God, messy, messy will be your relationships.


From both the aforementioned speakers, the cross for both the man and the woman in marriage, is embraced; not avoided.

Thanks DragonFly I get a big head sometimes, it's not up to me there are higher powers at work in this situation just want to make sure whatever happens is good for everyone even great.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

I believe that polygamy is not sinful based on this scripture,

"I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."

Matthew 22:32

Abraham had two wives, Issac had one, Jacob had four. Obviously, it makes no difference to God.

 

[dragonfly]

it makes no difference to God.

I think God has moved on from that era, since the beginning of the New Covenant.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear Dragonfly,

that is a common sentiment amoung those who believe that God has somehow changed His mind on this subject. However, God does not change and what was sin in the Old Testament is sin in the New Testament. Conversely, what was not sin in the Old Testament is not sin in the New Testament.

What did change, and change dramatically, is that the blood of the true Lamb of God was shed and thus the New Covenant did replace the old. This,however, only changed how we approuch God and did not change what God viewed as sin or not sin.

Sometimes cultures tend to be very ethnocentric on different issues to the point that they bend scriptures to fit their cultural viewpoints However, we are all supposed to be citzens of heaven and conform to the social norms of our Father.

In my personal viewpoint, it is vital that we do not add to the gospel. We should not make the acceptance of Christ any more difficult than it already is by adding things like "you must have only one wife" to become a Christian.

Let us not reject what God obviously accepts.

 

[dragonfly]

We should not make the acceptance of Christ any more difficult than it already is by adding things like "you must have only one wife" to become a Christian.

I didn't suggest that.


But, once a man has come to Christ, it is clear he is to be joined only to one woman, if he is married at all.

 

[IAmAWitness]

There is no biblical injunction against polygamy except in the cases of bishops and kings of Israel.

Deuteronomy 17:17

The king must not take many wives for himself, because they will turn his heart away from the LORD.

and 1 Tim 3:2

"A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife..."

Some have speculated this verse presents a requirement that a bishop must be married. That is not it at all. It's drawing a distinction by way of an implicit, 'some of you have multiple wives,' but, 'you must be the husband of one wife,' in order to be a bishop.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Hi Witness,

I believe that Paul was saying just that. If you read the context he is talking about qualifications. Running a household well was seen to be indicative of one’s ability to handle the job of bishop or deacon. Making it a requirement to have only one wife really makes little sense. David ran an entire kingdom with about 17 wives so are people really willing to say that waiting tables requires that a man have only one? Were there so many men with multiple wives that wanted the job that Paul felt it vital to make a special point about it? I think not. I believe this may very well be yet another instance where ethnocentric cultural views have crept into even the translation of scripture.

 

[Rex]

Hello Justin
So how many wife's do you have or plan to have?
Sounds like lots of wife's is rather handy around the farm.

Right now I'm the least in the kingdom of heaven how may wifes do you suppose I need or deserve?

A few problems you didn't address DNA
The limiting of the years a man was lived to 120 Gen something.
How about the joining of family's kingdoms might be a good reason.

Lets talk

Oh ya and do these wifes have the right to come or go? Do they want to stay? are they happy?
Or are they under your authority?
teach me

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Hey TRex,

I am just discussing the theology of this question from a Biblical standpoint.

I suppose that my issue with the stand that many western Christian's take on this subject is that it discriminates against a significant part of humanity. Even though this type of marital arrangement does not come up very much in our neck of the wood (unless you watch HBO) it is fairly common in certain parts of Africa and within certain areas of the Islamic world. If polygamy is not an issue with God then why should it be an issue with us when we seek to share the gospel with the unsaved?

I am not sure what point you are trying to make when you ask me about my marital arrangement? Do you assume that I have or may have in the future more than one wife simply but speaking about the topic? If you speak about sin authoritavitively should I assume that you know such things because you have induged in or plan to induge in them at some future date?

I am glad you are open to further teaching on this subject. A teachable heart and mind is a good thing to have.

 

[Rex]

I looked back a few post

Abraham had two wives, Issac had one, Jacob had four. Obviously, it makes no difference to God.

This in my opinion is not a biblical stand point. I'm just throwing mud at the wall with my previous post looking for something that sticks.
When you find some evidence, like God told or God commanded to take for yourself 17 wife's, I would be interested, so I'll simply let you be with your obvious opinion. Personally the topic doesn't interest me, I doubt it will produce record crops. Just came from one like this about plastic surgery. Makes you wonder where peoples hearts are at doesn't it?

Welcome to the board have a good night and God Bless.

BTW who started this thread?????

Yep I should have looked first, the only reason I looked in was to check on a friend.
I hope you don't stay in this thread long, you might starve to death.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

I don't see why the scripture I quoted was unclear.

If these three people are alive and with God obviously God approves of them. God obviously does not exclude those who have more than one wife. To me this is a "proof text" on this subject. In fact, it seems that God prefers men who have more than one wife two to one...grin.

Really, this is an issue in some places of the world and it if it is not sin then we need to change our attitudes about it and not give people a hard time about a form of marriage that God accepts.

 

[Rex]

Really, this is an issue in some places of the world and it if it is not sin then we need to change our attitudes about it and not give people a hard time about a form of marriage that God accepts.

I humbly suggest missionaries teach salvation by faith first and let the Lord place the conviction on their heart.
Rather than preaching and teaching the struggle with the flesh, Fix the heart and the mind and flesh will follow.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

I agree with you. Well said.

 

[Rex]

Good, very good
Now look at my first post, all those silly comments and questions, then look at the thread topic
Now ask yourself whats important.

Like I said above, "Makes you wonder where peoples hearts are at doesn't it?

God Bless you Justin

 

[dragonfly]

that is a common sentiment amoung those who believe that God has somehow changed His mind on this subject. However, God does not change and what was sin in the Old Testament is sin in the New Testament. Conversely, what was not sin in the Old Testament is not sin in the New Testament.

Hi Justin and IAmAWItness,

As you will remember, the Mosaic law was not introduced until about five hundred years after Jacob. Paul says it was introduced because of transgression. It is possible, also, that God allowed polygamy as a way of providing for women and to permit them to be fulfilled in having children. We see from both Abraham's and Jacob's wives' experiences, that being in a polygamous marriage brought considerable heartache to the woman, if not also to the husband. Look at Abraham having to say goodbye to all his other sexual partners and children, apart from Isaac. He demonstrates perfectly the kind of exclusiveness that God expects us to give Him in our relationship with Him, and, in our relationship with a spouse.

When God gave Eve to Adam, there was only one man and one woman, becoming one flesh, and this principle is re-established by Jesus in both Matthew 5:28 and Matthew 19:4, 5, 6. You will notice that in Matthew 19:7, the Pharisees are asking about divorce, because it had come to be used as a way for a man to get rid of a wife he no longer wished to shelter, feed and clothe, according to the terms of the contract he had made with her. Exodus 21:10. That's why he was to give her 'a bill of divorcement', which entitled her to remarry, legally. Jesus endorsed this, too.

While I accept that the Mosaic law permitted multiple wives, it didn't permit multiple husbands, and it didn't permit a man to take another man's wife.

This is because the man is head of the woman, and the offence in adultery, was against the other man. It was not, at that time, an offence to desire a second, third, or more wives, until Jesus made His comments about lust and fornication, which are recorded in Matthew, establishing again that one man and one woman is God's approved pattern for marriage. He Himself will have only one Bride, when the time comes.

 

[Comm.Arnold]

I thought it said in Leviticus 18 that having more than one wife is detestable. It actually says v18 "Do not takes your wife's sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is still living." Put me down for not a sin then.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Comm.Arnold,

I thought it said in Leviticus 18 that having more than one wife is detestable. It actually says v18 "Do not takes your wife's sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is still living." Put me down for not a sin then.

The context of Leviticus 18 is Egyptian and Canaanite idolatry: 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say to them, I am the LORD your God. 3 After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances.

The Lord then goes on to describe incestuous and bestial relationships which He defines as abominations.

Here is the KJV's rendering of v 18. I think it demonstrates more clearly, what the Lord was saying:

18 Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex [her], to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life [time].

{a wife...: or, one wife to another}

Can you see how God respects both the wife's and her sister's privacy, and abhors such an attitude in a husband?


Ephesians 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourishes and cherishes it, even as the Lord the church: 30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined to his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

 

[Axehead]

If the Holy Spirit supported Polygamy, why don't we see this as a widespread practice in the Church, today? Where are the annointed teachers of God (filled with the Holy Spirit) teaching this to the church? Why are they not telling us to take care of the widows by marrying them? I don't recall seeing this being taught by the Holy Spirit through the Apostles in the NT, either.

It seems what we have here, is a few men today, grabbing an old testament practice and building a doctrine out of it. I don't see any examples of polygamy in the NT. If this was sanctioned by God and a wonderful and merciful thing to do, why do we not see this practice in the NT? Leaders" of the Church were instructed to be married to one wife. Obviously, as an example to others. If this practice was sanctioned by the Holy Spirit and there was anything beneficial about it, then the Word would promote "the husband of many wives" and we would see this practice "sanctioned" and "blessed" by the Holy Spirit in the Scriptures and if it was then the Early Church and the Contemporary Church would be practicing it.


1Co_5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

No mention of "his father's wives".

Eph_5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

No mention of "unto his wives".

Eph_5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

So love his wife, not wives.

1Ti_3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;


1Th_1:7 So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.
1Pe_5:3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.

So, we see that the leadership in the church are to be ensamples or examples to the flock. So, being married to one wife is being an example to the church.

1Ti_3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
The example here, is ONE wife.

Tit_1:6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
Again, the example to the flock here is the husband of one wife.

So, we can learn much from the Bible regarding not only what is mentioned, but what IS NOT mentioned.

Axehead

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Hi Ax,

Really, the truth is out there Scully. Having been in Africa, where this practice is widespread, people are teaching it because it is relevant. This should be relevant to people ministering to Muslims too.

Historically, this type of marriage was practice among the Jews and in some quarters it is still practiced today.

If you are trying to win someone to Christ do you think it is proper to desparage him because he has two or more wives? most of the time such men are the leaders in their communities. If this is not an issue with God why make it and issue among men?

As far as i can see intitutionalized mulitple marriage in African communities served as a ligeimate way for men to have more than one wife. What happened is that this intitution was maligned and said to have been unbilical and sinful by western missionaries. Thus instead of making a man work hard to take care of multiple wives we have fornication, adultry, fatherless children, and HIV. All over a misunderstanding of God's heart and intent with multiple marriage.

The type of attitude that some display about this subject has disrupted whole families and societies and for what? So that theologians who have no relevant experience with this subject can feel good?

People pontificate from their theological perspectives forgetting what the cost of their teachings are becuase they do not affect them. The point of all this is that souls be saved. Our heart should be that if God allows a man to take more than one wife we should champion it rather than make it to be sin where their in no sin....so that more people can find Christ.

God did not speak to this type of marriage in the NT simply because it was not an issue just like He did not say, in every instance, that people spoke in tougnes when they were filled with the Holy Spirit. It was assumed.

I think, in some cases, people just mouth what they have heard rather than take the time to dig and find out the truth. In other instances some lack the courage to take a stand on the truth even if they know it.

 

[Axehead]

Hi Ax,

Really, the truth is out there Scully. Having been in Africa, where this practice is widespread, people are teaching it because it is relevant. This should be relevant to people ministering to Muslims too.

Historically, this type of marriage was practice among the Jews and in some quarters it is still practiced today.

If you are trying to win someone to Christ do you think it is proper to desparage him because he has two or more wives? most of the time such men are the leaders in their communities. If this is not an issue with God why make it and issue among men?

As far as i can see intitutionalized mulitple marriage in African communities served as a ligeimate way for men to have more than one wife. What happened is that this intitution was maligned and said to have been unbilical and sinful by western missionaries. Thus instead of making a man work hard to take care of multiple wives we have fornication, adultry, fatherless children, and HIV. All over a misunderstanding of God's heart and intent with multiple marriage.

The type of attitude that some display about this subject has disrupted whole families and societies and for what? So that theologians who have no relevant experience with this subject can feel good?

People pontificate from their theological perspectives forgetting what the cost of their teachings are becuase they do not affect them. The point of all this is that souls be saved. Our heart should be that if God allows a man to take more than one wife we should champion it rather than make it to be sin where their in no sin....so that more people can find Christ.

God did not speak to this type of marriage in the NT simply because it was not an issue just like He did not say, in every instance, that people spoke in tougnes when they were filled with the Holy Spirit. It was assumed.

I think, in some cases, people just mouth what they have heard rather than take the time to dig and find out the truth. In other instances some lack the courage to take a stand on the truth even if they know it.

Justin,

You preach Christ not sin, when you are winning someone to Christ, you don't disparage anyone. The Bible says to "show honor to all men". This is a conversation between Christians, I thought. Also, please direct me to Christian churches in Africa, TODAY, where polygamy is preached and practiced. Can you give me a webpage that speaks of many links of many churches (not just one). How about Europe, America, Asia and other countries?

I am taking time to dig and find the truth in the NT. Please help me dig. I did not "mouth" anything that I heard. Show me the truth and I will take a stand because I have never had a problem with taking a stand for what my convictions.

So, a few things, show me this in Christian churches (not pagan communities) in Africa and show me this in the Early Church. And why did God not allow leaders of the Church in the New Testament to be examples to the flock and have more than one wife, if polygamy if it is such a blessing to God. And why did the Apostles in speaking to the church always and only mention ONE wife?

These are questions that I have. Rather than be rude, help me to dig. Are you able to or is this just an opinion you have? Are you in a church that practices this? If not, why not if you believe this is of God? Have you not found like-minded believers?

Thank you,
Axehead

P.S. Who is Scully?