Excuses!

[aspen]

I know I have been accused of using excuses for all the sin in the world and all the liberal nonsense in our government and all the lazy poor people who are living off the system. I thought I was just talking about the issues and discussing possible reasons for why the world is the way it is...so I am left wondering; what are excuses?

In my mind, offering an excuse for behavior is an attempt to avoid punishment. What I am seeing lately, in the news and online is the redefinition of the word excuse; nowadays, an excuse has become a catch-all word for any attempt to think about an issue. For example, it doesn't matter why someone behaves the way they are behaving - if it looks like they are wrong they are wrong - forget any discussion! In my opinion, calling all attempts at reasoning through an issue or discussion of behavior an excuse is anti-intellectual because it discourages or even shuts down all discussion.

In my opinion, asking the question 'why' in response to any behavior is an attempt to learn and gather information from others - it has nothing to do with condemning or condoning behavior - or trying to let people of the hook. What do you think?

 

[Strat]

Excuses are what is offered in place of real reasons for why things happen,it is to be expected from the world...convinced of their own inherent goodness it just has to be somebody else's fault or perhaps the fault of inanimate circumstances.

The bible tells us that sin is the problem and that we sin because we are inherent sinners...strangely enough God offers forgiveness without excuses yet people still prefer their exucses,it might be worth mentioning that excuses have become political capital well spent in gaining and holding on to power,accepting the excuses of some while rejecting those of another....and if the votes of the former add up to more than those of the latter you win.....excuses....one often wonders if their supply will ever exceed their demand.

 

[aspen]

So if someone is late for work because his car breaks down - is that a reason he is late for work or an excuse?

 

[prism]

So if someone is late for work because his car breaks down - is that a reason he is late for work or an excuse?

It depends on whether or not he did a pre-trip inspection on his car!!!

 

[biggandyy]

So if someone is late for work because his car breaks down - is that a reason he is late for work or an excuse?

By itself, yes, it is a valid excuse. However, if Sally (a person with a broken down car) is habitually late, the validity of that excuse can be questioned.

If Tad, who is usually early into the office has the same situation happen (broken car) then the veracity of his excuse is not questioned.

What is observed in society is the "liberal" notion of fairness and it goes something like this; Sally complains she was written up for being late because of a legitimate car problem while Tad was not. Liberal fairness broadly, will simply view the complaint of Sally in a vacuum and mandate the supervisor remove the write up or even be reprimanded themselves. However, the above is not a description of "fairness" but of equality. Same situations require the same responses.

If fairness were actually in view the reprimand would have stood because it would be unfair for Tad, who makes every effort to be on time and early, for Sally to either receive no consequence for her past actions, or worse, Tad be written up as well. That is "liberal" fairness, which, as I said, is not fairness in action at all, but over-simplistic equality.

Fairness and equality can never be equal, one must diminish for the other to rise. If you seek greater fairness in outcomes then the equality of outcomes must be unequal. If you want increased equality of outcomes then there must be less fairness in the system. The two are inversely proportional to each other.

 

[aspen]

By itself, yes, it is a valid excuse. However, if Sally (a person with a broken down car) is habitually late, the validity of that excuse can be questioned.

If Tad, who is usually early into the office has the same situation happen (broken car) then the veracity of his excuse is not questioned.

What is observed in society is the "liberal" notion of fairness and it goes something like this; Sally complains she was written up for being late because of a legitimate car problem while Tad was not. Liberal fairness broadly, will simply view the complaint of Sally in a vacuum and mandate the supervisor remove the write up or even be reprimanded themselves. However, the above is not a description of "fairness" but of equality. Same situations require the same responses.

If fairness were actually in view the reprimand would have stood because it would be unfair for Tad, who makes every effort to be on time and early, for Sally to either receive no consequence for her past actions, or worse, Tad be written up as well. That is "liberal" fairness, which, as I said, is not fairness in action at all, but over-simplistic equality.

Fairness and equality can never be equal, one must diminish for the other to rise. If you seek greater fairness in outcomes then the equality of outcomes must be unequal. If you want increased equality of outcomes then there must be less fairness in the system. The two are inversely proportional to each other.

This is a great example of what I am talking about! I am not talking about 'fairness' or the validity of an excuse. I am talking about cause and effect being viewed falsely through the lens of right and wrong. The break down caused both people to be late for work, whether or not it was valid or fair; yet the conservative often tries to determine which person was culpable and therefore, which one should be excused and which one should be punished. The same is true when there is a report of a school shooting or other tragedy; people are not interested in determining cause and effect - all they want to do is find out who is at fault and how that guilty person has harmed everyone who hears about it, personally.

Here on the board, the same is true - instead of simply discussing cause and effect, people are most interested in how the liberal is trying to diminish blame. So my question still stands - why can't we have a simple discussion about cause and effect without crossing into 'sin' and 'consequences'? Why are simple discussions involving cause and effect interpreted as personal attacks on truth or attempts to deflect blame?

In my opinion, finding blame and making excuses are not the goal of the conversation - even if they are part of the conversation. Yet, it seems as if the conversation is over for many people as soon as blame is assigned to the guilty party - how boring.

 

[biggandyy]

Your OP did not mention cause and effect at all, it asked what are excuses.

 

[Strat]

Cause = sin = Is a drunk,drug addict,criminal or just plain lazy and irresponsable not willing to contribute anything to society
Effect = can't keep a job,doesn't want a job,will not care for children they produce,will not care even for themselves.
Excuses = blame = everything and everyone under the sun...even God himself....anything and anyone but the individual.

If anyone can provide scripture that suggest these people are anything but sinners,like all of us are in different ways,that need to repent please point it out.

"for whatever a man sows that shall he also reap"

 

[aspen]

Cause = sin = Is a drunk,drug addict,criminal or just plain lazy and irresponsable not willing to contribute anything to society
Effect = can't keep a job,doesn't want a job,will not care for children they produce,will not care even for themselves.
Excuses = blame = everything and everyone under the sun...even God himself....anything and anyone but the individual.

If anyone can provide scripture that suggest these people are anything but sinners,like all of us are in different ways,that need to repent please point it out.

"for whatever a man sows that shall he also reap"

How many people out there fit this description?

 

[Strat]

How many people out there fit this description?

Oh come on Aspen,the statistics for drunks,drug addicts,criminals,dead beat and absent parents and able bodied people who don't work are readily available...i'm sure you would dispute all of them based on your location and situation...but to ask how many people fit this description is ridiculous.

 

[aspen]

Oh come on Aspen,the statistics for drunks,drug addicts,criminals,dead beat and absent parents and able bodied people who don't work are readily available...i'm sure you would dispute all of them based on your location and situation...but to ask how many people fit this description is ridiculous.

Based on your posts, it sounds like 99% of America.

 

[Strat]

Based on your posts, it sounds like 99% of America.

And based on yours it's 1%...all of this is just arguing over where to place the deck chairs on the sinking ship of the welfare state...America is in decline in every way and then there will truely be people who are destitute through no fault of their own and a bankrupt government will not beable to help them whether they want to or not....the entitlement mentality is firmly in place and growing with people expecting more and more from less and less...not only expectinmg something for nothing but expecting something from nothing.

 

[soupy]

As a jail chaplain, excuses is a trigger for me, most inmates I talk to accept responsibility for their actions, if I get one that starts making excuses I first address that BIG problem. We are all individually responsible for own actions, we as individuals accept Christ as a Savior, He individually guides us, forgives us, it is not a joint effort. Many.times, why a person did something wrong doesn't really matter, it is just wrong, we don't need to dwell on their childhood, parents, society, cruelty , etc.

I always tell them, the grey areas we see when making decisions get quite small as we read and read and read his Word. The path is narrow, but 99% of the time it isn't really that difficult, our self reasoning makes it difficult, we want what we want, and we think we are so smart. In the long run our way doesn't work out, but we frequently get short term successes that make us think we are so smart. His way is perfect, but we imperfect people don't always like doing it His way.

 

[7angels]

So if someone is late for work because his car breaks down - is that a reason he is late for work or an excuse?

like everything this i not a question that can be answered easily. we need to dive into the meaning underneath what is being asked before we can explain. first off we need to look at the intent in which it is used. if someone comes to work late and then just feels the need to explain why is wrong. however if you come in late and some asks why you were late then it becomes an explanation and not an excuse. it sounds similar but there is a difference. like the meaning of the word 'WORD' in the bible which are rhema and logos. both mean word but have 2 separate meanings.

 

[Strat]

The truth is only certain people in society are allowed excuses,if you are a working person earning a decent living and paying taxes nobody wants to hear any of your excuses,miss a payment or pay late and your credit is affected,they don't want to hear your excuses...you must be 100% 100% of the time,the IRS or state will pursue you to the ends of the earth if you owe so much as a dime in taxes yet they give billions away every year to people who have never paid taxes in their life beyond that which is charged for Beer and Cigarettes...been unemployed for over six months after being employed for decades...doesn't matter,no employer wants to hear your excuses as to why and many of them now won't hire anyone who has been unemployed for that period of time....again 100% 100% of the time....no excuses.....after you pass their drug screen,credit check,background check,driving record check and phase of the Moon check you might get the job so you can pay taxes to support people who do drugs,have no credit,are criminals,have no license because of DUI's and who probably see more of the Moon than they do of the Sun.

No excuses accepted for the productive class,only for the non productive class....the debate a couple of years ago was how long should perople get unemployement and it was interesting to hear politicians and activist talk about things like responsability and the lack of motivation that one would be subject to if their benefits lasted too long....the same people who stroke the Violin and advocate for limitless benefits for those who have no motivation because they don't have to...one would almost think that there is an effort to make life harder for productive people and easier for non productive people to attract more people to the dependent class.

 

[Rach1370]

Cause = sin = Is a drunk,drug addict,criminal or just plain lazy and irresponsable not willing to contribute anything to society
Effect = can't keep a job,doesn't want a job,will not care for children they produce,will not care even for themselves.
Excuses = blame = everything and everyone under the sun...even God himself....anything and anyone but the individual.

If anyone can provide scripture that suggest these people are anything but sinners,like all of us are in different ways,that need to repent please point it out.

"for whatever a man sows that shall he also reap"

Can I just add a thought? Granted there are many people who fit the above profile. But then there are others who may share the outcome: can't get a job, have difficulty caring for their kids and themselves, find it almost impossible to become involved in society...who don't share the cause. Sometimes people have legitimate problems that keep them from functioning normally...illness for example. I'm not saying you've dismissed these people...a post down a bit from this one shows that. But I thought it did raise another interesting point in regards to excuses...
It seems that as a general rule the idea of 'making excuses' to cover ones short comings has become an expected thing from the 'lower classes'...or those who play the system. Those who feel it's their right to accept money for nothing and everything bad in their life is the fault of someone else.
The problem here comes for those people who legitimately cannot participate as they should. They have a very reasonable excuse, but as soon as they open their mouth and start with what others perceive as 'excuse'...they are immediately put into that useless, user category. It's very subtle, but it's there none the less. The ill person will be 'invited' to something a few times, and when inevitably they can't get there and 'excuse' themselves from the situation, the unfortunate impression is given that they can't be bothered attending. They are put in the 'excuse making' corner and dismissed from society. It doesn't seem to matter if their 'excuse' is legitimate or not.
So while yes, there are people out there who are playing the system and people, be it through selfishness, laziness or sin, there are those out there who are hurting, from something else, but also through peoples evolved reaction to 'excuses' themselves. We may want to place blame of that on the lazy people...but I tend to think sometimes it's just easier to put everyone in that category...it takes less effort on our part to wave everyone off under the 'lazy, excuses' banner. But in a way, isn't that laziness itself?
Just a thought for the conversation....

 

[aspen]

Like I said earlier - excuses are easy to spot. An excuse is any reason given in order to dodge or deflect punishment, judgment, or responsibility. Excuses are different than determining a cause for an effect. So BA, I did mention the concept of cause and effect in my OP when I compared it to excuses. For example - addiction is caused by brain chemistry and behavior - stating these causes (not excuses) takes nothing away from the responsibility an alcoholic must accept before he can make positive chances and survive alcoholism. If he does not accept responsibility for his drinking, his death and/or incarceration are on his conscience.

Discussing causes is not the same as making excuses.

 

[Stan]

Excuses are a man or woman's attempt at telling God what we did is NOT sin. It is the opposite of confessing. John says we will have any sin we commit forgiven if we CONFESS, or AGREE with God it IS a sin. Plain and simple. Although Jesus died for ALL mankind's sin, just as when we are saved, we have to recognize sin in our lives and agree with God that it is. Failure to do so, brings excuses and disrupts our relationship with God.

 

[aspen]

Excuses are to the human condition as drinking is to an alcoholic - nothing shocking about it. It is the baseline behavior of our Fallen condition - taking responsibility and correcting negative behavior is shocking and often rare. Instead of shaming people for making excuses, I think we are called to love and accept them for who they are, and work on creating enough trust for them to realize that they no longer need to offer excuses.

I guess I am more interested in finding out what causes an event to happen than assigning blame. When 911 happened - I noticed how much time the media spent trying to assign blame, rather than report the events that were unfolding.

Perhaps this is the difference between many scientists and many Christians - science is interested in studying cause and effect - I think some Christians who are opposed to scientific observations cannot get past their own ideas of morality (God created the Earth: RIGHT / Evolution: WRONG) to even consider the validity of the observations.

Counselors get the same criticism by some Christians - the charge against counselors is that they refuse to assign blame and therefore, try to help their clients relieve their guilt without repenting of their sin. Yet, counseling has never claimed to be about assigning blame, guilt, or repenting from sin because none of this helps people with emotional distress get better. Instead, it is about helping a person find the cause of negative emotions and teaching them skills to make positive changes in their thoughts, emotions and actions. In reality, the only permanent changes people will end up making are changes they have discovered on their own.

I can guarantee that the ministry I work with would have no clients if we were heavy handed about assigning blame and shaming the kids that receive are services - instead we reach out to the kids and minister through relationships - we believe that Christ's unconditional love is what makes a difference in people's lives. It is only when people are valued and loved that they are able to love themselves and others, and eventually become productive, whole and healthy adults.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Aspen2 ..... I see it a bit different .... rather than the word "excuses" .... it is more like the word "justification" describes it best.

If people do something wrong or inappropriate they are always quick to respond with reasons to justify what they did.

eg; I was late for work because this stinking company does not pay me enough to buy a brand new Camaro.

eg: I robbed the liquor store because my great great grandfather was a slave and I'm not over the trauma yet.

eg:I made a million dollars last year without paying taxes because there is a legal way for me to bank offshore.

Modern society tends to spend most of its time coming up with new way to justify actions that at one time were seen as wrong or criminal.