Do we walk with God as sinners?
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Well I think context here is important. What did they do? They held back part of their possessions and lied to the Apostles. The point being that God made an example of them to promote fear in the rest of them. If you don't love God then it is better to fear him rather than to deny him altogether and betray him.
God only did that in the scriptures in a couple examples. And yes you're right no one is living that way today. Point taken. And the reason for my message being so exact to the new testament scriptures and church is so that we can get an idea of sin and how to avoid it.
As I posted in #20 the rich can still be saved if with God all things are possible. But we are to teach people to obey the commandments and to not sin. Which is what I was attempting to do.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Does God love a cheerful giver? (yes)
Are those forced to pay by extortion (threat of death) cheerful givers? (nope)
What would be the point, then?
/
Interesting here that God has made an example of sinners more than a couple times, as I posted in #22. I can read scriptures and see all thru out the bible that he has made examples of sinners by killing them on numerous occasions. Flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, Ananias Sapphira, Judas Iscariot, just to name a couple off the top of my head.
We obey the commandments out of fear or love. There are plenty of scriptures that cover fear of God adequately. And yes @St. SteVen God enjoys those who love him and his ways. I both love and fear God to be honest.
@St. SteVen interesting to note that the Apostles also feared and loved God. We know they proclaimed and demonstrated their love for God. And we also see fear of him in their testimonies:
Matthew 17:4 Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, [a]let us make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” 5 While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!” 6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their faces and were greatly afraid.
Matthew 17:4 Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, [a]let us make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” 5 While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!” 6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their faces and were greatly afraid.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Feared and loved? ???
1 John 4:18 NIV
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear,
because fear has to do with punishment.
The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
/
I think the point I was trying to make is that when we repent of our sins we are made right with God thru the atonement. And @Lambano I think echoed that correctly. Also when we sin we are not right with God. So it is important to repent when we sin.
I have tried to define sin better so that the inclusion of charity is in there. Let all man give according to what God thinks is right. And he may establish that thru the Holy Ghost testament to people. Let them not defy him either.
I have tried to define sin better so that the inclusion of charity is in there. Let all man give according to what God thinks is right. And he may establish that thru the Holy Ghost testament to people. Let them not defy him either.
Yes @St. SteVen God has perfect love. That's what that scripture says. Did Jesus have perfect love or did he fear his death on the crucifixion? Ask people if you don't know the answer to that question.
Of course They do!!!
Roman 8:38-39 38" For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
We need to remember that if we don't make it, it is because of ourselves. He has done everything to make it possible for all of us to live with Him.
Also in relation to Matthew 7:21-23, where Jesus rejects the very ministers of the church. Apparently, due to being the workers of 'lawlessness' or 'iniquities', violating and falling short as 'doers' and 'abiders' to His words/teaching in the New Testament.
When they were faithful to the testament of the Apostles then, where the church met for fellowship all most every day. For example, even to handing out rations to the needy, once upon complaint, Apostle Stephen was chosen to take charge.
That day, truly born again and gifted believers, were put in charge to all the matters of the church, unlike today mix and match.
Here, meditate on these biblical truths...
1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not
1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not
James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil
John 8:34
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
We should not be willingly or knowingly doing sinful things... it should be a very rare occasion for a Christian to sin and IF they did it would NOT be a situation where it's something they knew it was sinful and they decided to do it anyway.
I sure hope you get in to studying the New Testament and get this salvation thing nailed down sooner rather than later!
Gabriel _Arch
Well-Known Member
I think that passage has been debated for quite some time. And because in my view it conflated an after repentance unto salvation state of heart and spirit , with the fallen sinner pre-redemption condition.
This is the truth as above and more, that believers since their past sins as unbelievers prior, have been forgiven and forgotten by GOD because of Lord Jesus Christ. Where, further one have been cleansed inward and out, arise a new creation, and where the Holy Spirit resides, one must sin no more.
Christ died once and for all for the remission of sin, and when we sin again and again further, it's like crucifying the Lord once again. Therefore, due to the grace and truth of the Gospel yet still shines for now, provision for believers to the confess their sins. And, GOD moreover cleanses them from all righteousness apparently available. (1John1:9)
This provision is given during the grace and truth period because believers are given the opportunity to stop sinning. Henceforth, practice and make perfect the words/teaching of Lord Jesus Christ in the New Testament, even ones through the Apostles. Jesus said, "Come into the Light while the Light is still with you. So that when gross darkness take over, you will not stumble."
This temporal provision also extends to Hebrews 4:15&16, nevertheless, one must also consider to which eligible believer these Scriptures giving opportunity to? For 'lukewarm' believers who casually have the tendency to sin and even confess them, He will spit them out. Jesus said, "And whosoever does not bear his cross, and come after Me, cannot be My disciple."
And for those that do not FORSAKE their sin.... none of this is true for them.
There is NO mercy for those that continue to live in sin.
Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
Confessing is one thing, forsaking sin is the repentance.
Those that refuse to repent and turn away from their sin are not obeying the Gospel
Colossians 3:6
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Apparently, conclusion according to the context of my reply is, believers must stop sinning and sin no more. Nevertheless, 1John1:8, writes, If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Did you see the other things the Lord said about NOT doing sin?
All things are possible thru Christ (Philippians 4:13), so THRU JESUS we actually DO have the ability to stop sinning
1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not
1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not
Galatians 5:16
Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh
James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil
John 8:34
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
We should not be willingly or knowingly doing sinful things... it should be a very rare occasion for a Christian to sin and IF they did it would NOT be a situation where it's something they knew it was sinful and they decided to do it anyway.
1 John 1:8 is obviously speaking of if we claim we have never sinned... or if we make a mistake such as dropping something on the floor accidentally which is an imperfection that is not unto death (does not cause us to be separated from God like sin does)
The very next verse tells us if we confess our sins the Lord cleanses us of ALL unrighteousness... so is 1 John1:8 claiming 1 John1:9 is un-true???
Well, did you note the point have been made, that a believer, 'must stop sinning and sin no more'?
i do perceive the points you've made as well, put them together as contextual to the topic. Also, tolerance have been given to believers who sin, and in the period of Grace and Truth, 'to stop sinning and sin no more'.
And, by the way, are you perfect in CHRIST, a 'doer' and an 'abider' to all His words/teaching in the New Testament? (2John1:9-11)
If one is not, or in some of His words/teaching only, are related unto the workers of 'lawlessness/iniquity', where 'lawlessness/iniquity' is 'sin'. (Matthew 7:21-23)
Thank you.
Both...fear.... because the Bible teaches...."fear God"....as in need to keep His commandments. Love...for what He offers us to keep His righteous state ...until the end...the Bible says.
I might add another element....respect. I want to live for our Savior because of what He endured on the cross.... for my salvation.
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