Do we walk with God as sinners?

[dev553344]

1 John 1:5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

We were sinners, lost, unbelieving without God then hearing the gospel of God's love through Jesus, and believing, we no longer serve sin but rather serve God!

Romans 5:1-6
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into the grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; BECAUSE THE LOVE OF GOD IS SHED ABROAD IN OUR HEARTS BY THE HOLY GHOST which is given unto us.
6 For when we were yet without strength, IN DUE TIME CHRIST DIED FOR THE UNGODLY.

If we were sinners there would be no peace no light, and no hope. He died for us while we were the ungodly, through belief confession and repentance we now have access to his Spirit, his promise, hope, peace & love.

To those who want to claim still to be sinners then you might hear these words, depart from me ye workers of iniquity, I never knew you !

 

[Fred J]

Hi there, it's an interesting and challenging topic, thank you.

Initially, when we repented from our sins as unbelievers, by the Gospel messages ministered unto us apparently. We were born again able to 'see' the Kingdom of GOD through these messages. Moreover, even further born of water and of the Holy Spirit becoming the new creation spirit man, in order to 'enter' the Kingdom of GOD.

Now, as many as received Jesus, to them gave Jesus the power to become sons of GOD, even to them that believe on Jesus' name. So, we were forgiven from all our past sins and our body cleansed completely into a new vessel. A new vessel then disciple in the New Testament of Lord Jesus Christ, to be filled as 'doers' and 'abiders' to every words/teaching of His, even through the Apostles. And, as well disciple in the Old Testament, to be as references and historical facts and evidences to the Kingdom of GOD in the past.

Therefore, as the true born again church, we henceforth fall short in being 'doers' and 'abiders' to Jesus' words/teaching in the New Testament. Apparently, this short comings of ours are counted as 'lawlessness', and Apostle John depict this 'lawlessness' as 'sin'. This short comings happens due to being in the flesh, where it's 'passions' and 'desires', it's 'fruits', are evident in us. Where Apostle Paul mentions, that these 'fruits', we supposedly should have had them crucified already. (Galatians 5:19&24&26)

Conclusion, that's why 1John1:9, is given to all true born again believers, to confess their sins based on these short comings. To those who fall short as 'doers' and 'abiders' to the words/teaching of Lord Jesus Christ in the New Testament. In order for them to stop sinning and sin no more, while progressively excel in their lives, and be found pure upon His return.

In the Gospel the Lord have already said, "Be ye perfect as your FATHER in Heaven is perfect." And, "Your sins are forgiven, sin no more, or something worst shall happen to you."

 

[dev553344]

Hi there, it's an interesting and challenging topic, thank you.

Initially, when we repented from our sins as unbelievers, by the Gospel messages ministered unto us apparently. We were born again able to 'see' the Kingdom of GOD through these messages. Moreover, even further born of water and of the Holy Spirit becoming the new creation spirit man, in order to 'enter' the Kingdom of GOD.

Now, as many as received Jesus, to them gave Jesus the power to become sons of GOD, even to them that believe on Jesus' name. So, we were forgiven from all our past sins and our body cleansed completely into a new vessel. A new vessel then disciple in the New Testament of Lord Jesus Christ, to be filled as 'doers' and 'abiders' to every words/teaching of His, even through the Apostles. And, as well disciple in the Old Testament, to be as references and historical facts and evidences to the Kingdom of GOD in the past.

Therefore, as the true born again church, we henceforth fall short in being 'doers' and 'abiders' to Jesus' words/teaching in the New Testament. Apparently, this short comings of ours are counted as 'lawlessness', and Apostle John depict this 'lawlessness' as 'sin'. This short comings happens due to being in the flesh, where it's 'passions' and 'desires', it's 'fruits', are evident in us. Where Apostle Paul mentions, that these 'fruits', we supposedly should have had them crucified already. (Galatians 5:19&24&26)

Conclusion, that's why 1John1:9, is given to all true born again believers, to confess their sins based on these short comings. Where those who fail as 'doers' and 'abiders' to the words/teaching of Lord Jesus Christ in the New Testament. Therefore, in order for them to stop sinning and sin no more, progressively in their lives, and found pure upon His return.

In the Gospel the Lord have already said, "Be ye perfect as your FATHER in Heaven is perfect." And, "Your sins are forgiven, sin no more, or something worst shall happen to you."

Yes I have found in studying the scriptures that God still considered us sinners unless we walk perfectly. Yet thru the atonement of Christ as we repent of not walking as God the Father walks, we are forgiven and allowed to have the Holy Spirit with us. And we learn to do better.

I drew that conclusion when I studied the sheep and goats parable and who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. That and the church spelled out in the bible had all things in common and no poor among them. They sold all and distributed it among them according to everyone's needs.

 

[dev553344]

To those who want to claim still to be sinners then you might hear these words, depart from me ye workers of iniquity, I never knew you !

Yet the sheep and goats parable shows us that any who do not serve their fellow man go to hell while those that do help go to heaven. Sin is a perfection topic, where we must walk as God the Father would have us walk. The church spelled out in the bible gave all their possessions and distributed them among each other so that all had as they needed. I don't see any churches teaching people not to sin these days.

 

[Lambano]

I don't see any churches teaching people not to sin these days.

Oh, they do. They're just particular about WHICH sins they teach people not to do.

 

[Lambano]

Oh, they do. They're just particular about WHICH sins they teach people not to do.

For example, some will preach about sexual sins. Others against greed. Or failure to support the poor, or welcome the stranger.

 

[dev553344]

Oh, they do. They're just particular about WHICH sins they teach people not to do.

Yeah, I see that. I know you help a lot of people in the spirit of Christ. It would have been nice of God had spelled out all the sins and all the ways to be righteous in the bible so debates wouldn't come up. He sort of did though as I look back at the scriptures I've read. It's just not obvious enough sometimes.

I'm not going to die as a perfect person so I will say to God "have mercy on me a sinner". I will just hope The Father, Son and Holy Ghost love me enough to want me to be with them in heaven to save me.

 

[dev553344]

For example, some will preach about sexual sins. Others against greed. Or failure to support the poor, or welcome the stranger.

Yes I see that sometimes. I'm just thinking of certain churches that don't practice the new testament church practices. In a way by example their telling their members they don't have to live totally perfect as spelled out by the Apostles and God.

 

[dev553344]

Yes I see that sometimes. I'm just thinking of certain churches that don't practice the new testament church practices. In a way by example their telling their members they don't have to live totally perfect as spelled out by the Apostles and God.

God may have instituted that churches don't have to live like the Apostles set up in the bible. I know in old testament era he said write a letter of divorce if you don't like your wife. And in the new testament said that causes sin, but allowed it out of the hardness of their hearts. But I don't really know if God established the way churches teach. So that's a gamble.

 

[St. SteVen]

dev553344 said:
I don't see any churches teaching people not to sin these days.

Oh, they do. They're just particular about WHICH sins they teach people not to do.

Interesting topic. Thanks @dev553344

We still sin, but our identity is changed in Christ, no longer sinners.
A bit of a conundrum, like so much in this faith walk. Which we take one footstep at a time.
Leaps and bounds forward sometimes, and sliding backwards at others.

/

 

[Lambano]

Yes I have found in studying the scriptures that God still considered us sinners unless we walk perfectly.

Does He? I don't doubt for a moment that God knows me (and you) completely, what we do, what we don't do, and what we are. But ...

8 But God demonstrates his own love for us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, because we have now been declared righteous by his blood, we will be saved through him from the wrath. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, how much more, since we have been reconciled, will we be saved by his life? (Romans 5:8 NETBible)

(I notice that the NETBible translators translate δικαιόω ("dikaioo", to justify) as "to declare righteous" rather than "to render righteous", either one of which is within the range of meaning of the word.)

How does God see us now?

If He sees us as His children (and I could quote from the Apostle John that He does), what is our appropriate response to make the identity the reality?

 

[Lambano]

Yes I see that sometimes. I'm just thinking of certain churches that don't practice the new testament church practices. In a way by example their telling their members they don't have to live totally perfect as spelled out by the Apostles and God.

For there was not a needy person among them, for all who were owners of land or houses would sell them and bring the proceeds of the sales, and lay them at the apostles’ feet, and they would be distributed to each as any had need. (Acts 4:35)

Yeah, I don't see the modern church maintaining this practice.

 

[dev553344]

For there was not a needy person among them, for all who were owners of land or houses would sell them and bring the proceeds of the sales, and lay them at the apostles’ feet, and they would be distributed to each as any had need. (Acts 4:35)

Yeah, I don't see the modern church maintaining this practice.

I've often thought of what would happen if churches lived that way, there would have to be doctors that also live that way to attend to their health needs. It's almost like all of our society would have to go that way to maintain a lifestyle with each other that is appropriate. But it only need be the Christians that do that, and for them to invite others in.

I know Russia tried this and the rich all lived in big houses like the kings among them and the rest of society lived in housing. So it was sort of greed driven. Like every other society out there. All our politicians here in the USA are rich too for the most part. The pot calling the kettle black as they war against each other.

So maybe when Jesus returns it will be that way and correctly instituted. Well I'm sure he will institute his church properly. He didn't really seem to care what people thought of him either. Well may he wanted them to love him and to love righteous living. He spoke the truth whether people wanted to hear it or not.

 

[dev553344]

dev553344 said:
I don't see any churches teaching people not to sin these days.

Interesting topic. Thanks @dev553344

We still sin, but our identity is changed in Christ, no longer sinners.
A bit of a conundrum, like so much in this faith walk. Which we take one footstep at a time.
Leaps and bounds forward sometimes, and sliding backwards at others.

/

Yes that is true. Thanks for the input!

 

[St. SteVen]

Yeah, I don't see the modern church maintaining this practice.

And I don't think we were intended to. Certainly don't see this Christian "commune" idea promoted by the Apostle Paul.

Even people that claim they are Jesus followers either aren't REALLY following his example, or don't understand it.

I don't know of anyone who travels on foot with a dozen homeless disciples going from
synagogue to synagogue healing the sick. raising the dead, and casting out demons.
Water-walking anyone?

Romans 14:4 NIV
Who are you to judge someone else’s servant?
To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand,
for the Lord is able to make them stand.

/

 

[dev553344]

And I don't think we were intended to. Certainly don't see this Christian "commune" idea promoted by the Apostle Paul.

Even people that claim they are Jesus followers either aren't REALLY following his example, or don't understand it.

I don't know of anyone who travels on foot with a dozen homeless disciples going from
synagogue to synagogue healing the sick. raising the dead, and casting out demons.
Water-walking anyone?

Romans 14:4 NIV
Who are you to judge someone else’s servant?
To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand,
for the Lord is able to make them stand.

/

Well apparently living in the Christian common wealth was so important to God that he killed Sapphira and Ananias for betraying it. See: Bible Gateway passage: Acts 5:1-13 - New King James Version

 

[Lambano]

I don't see any churches teaching people not to sin these days.

Gotta tell this story: My pastor was grousing to me one day in private about how an unnamed fellow congregant came to him and asked him to preach a sermon about (ahem) a certain sin. Preacher-dude asked him, "Oh, is this because you need encouragement to stop doing it?" That put him away, but the pastor was grumbling about how they only want to hear sermons about the OTHER GUYS' sins, not their own. He got out of the ministry soon afterwards.

 

[St. SteVen]

Well apparently living in the Christian common wealth was so important to God that he killed Sapphira and Ananias for betraying it. See: Bible Gateway passage: Acts 5:1-13 - New King James Version

I don't think the"Christian common wealth" is what that was about. They lied to the church. (Spirit)
That's a difficult passage actually. Do we pronounce people to death to their faces now?
Is that part of the "Christian common wealth" you say was "so important"?

/

 

[dev553344]

Gotta tell this story: My pastor was grousing to me one day in private about how an unnamed fellow congregant came to him and asked him to preach a sermon about (ahem) a certain sin. Preacher-dude asked him, "Oh, is this because you need encouragement to stop doing it?" That put him away, but the pastor was grumbling about how they only want to hear sermons about the OTHER GUYS' sins, not their own. After we fired him, he got out of the ministry.

What I find is that learning about why something is sinful can help us to desire not to sin. But I think that only works if we have good hearts and love God and his ways more than our sins and can accept to give it up.

When I think about really rich people and poor people and the sin of living lavishly and denying the needs of the poor I still can't judge, I can repeat scripture and what is ideal. I'm reminded that with God all things are possible:

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions. 23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” 25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”

26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”