Do we walk with God as sinners?

[Big Boy Johnson]

Didn't the widow put in the offering her last 2 coins, and have nothing left but poverty ahead on?

Did not Jesus commend her that she gave every thing she had, while others gave out of their abundance?

Didn't He by using this example, disciple His disciples in lesson about giving to the Kingdom of GOD?

Ever see the promises all across God's Word for His servants to be blessed?

Abraham was one of the richest men in the world in his day, and it wasn't even his idea to be wealthy as he never asked for that, it was God's idea!

Of course there are poor in this world, but that does not mean the Lord wants His people to be poor.

Of course there are those that take that to extremes and claim we should all be multi-millionaires but that does not mean the Lord doesn't want all of His people to have their needs met.

If you have never studied what God says about meeting His people's needs... ALL of their needs, including while here on Club Earth, you should look in to that.

And then remember that an unjust balance is an abomination unto the Lord (Proverbs 11:1)

The claim we should be poor is in the extreme in the ditch on one side and is wrong.
The claim we should be multi-millionaires is in the extreme in the ditch on the other side and is wrong.

 

[Fred J]

Ever see the promises all across God's Word for His servants to be blessed?

Abraham was one of the richest men in the world in his day, and it wasn't even his idea to be wealthy as he never asked for that, it was God's idea!

Of course there are poor in this world, but that does not mean the Lord wants His people to be poor.

Of course there are those that take that to extremes and claim we should all be multi-millionaires but that does not mean the Lord doesn't want all of His people to have their needs met.

If you have never studied what God says about meeting His people's needs... ALL of their needs, including while here on Club Earth, you should look in to that.

And then remember that an unjust balance is an abomination unto the Lord (Proverbs 11:1)

The claim we should be poor is in the extreme in the ditch on one side and is wrong.
The claim we should be multi-millionaires is in the extreme in the ditch on the other side and is wrong.

According to the New Covenant, Jesus gave and made with us, sinners who are saved by grace and not by works. Why do you think the widow who chose poverty instead is not blessed?

She could have gave one of her coin and kept the other for what is ahead. Moreover, why did Jesus commend her in front of His disciple, even setting an example? That, in giving to GOD she gave more than the others, who gave merely out of their abundance?

To simplify, in the book of Revelation, Jesus rebuked the church who thought they were rich. But, to Jesus and according to the New Covenant legislation given and made, they are 'poor' and 'lukewarm', apparently 'spiritually'.

Another point to note is, the widow who gave the 2 coins were not worth much at all. Compared to the silver, and probably gold, others gave out of their abundance. And for the record, the Apostles after being disciple by Jesus, emptied themselves and lived a poverty lives themselves.

As a result, they were fully devoted to GOD and fully filled with the Holy Spirit. And the church saints that day who were fire for GOD as well, met the needs of the Apostles.

Are you stuck in the Old Covenant? Let me enlighten you to the New Covenant already given and made, and we've signed up for. In the book of Acts, there were also the rich who were saved and in the church. But, they did sell parts of their properties and brought the proceedings to the Apostles.

Also they were cheerful givers and generous givers in the church offerings as well. So, the Apostles appointed among them competent brethren alike, to see to these proceedings, are given equally to the poor and needy in the church.

Seems like you need to move forward according to the New Covenant, i believe you too signed up for, and keep up rather.

Thank you. and GOD in Christ Jesus our Lord bless those who have ears, listen and pay attention, and not be found as workers of lawlessness/iniquities.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

According to the New Covenant, Jesus gave and made with us, sinners who are saved by grace and not by works.

Jesus did NOT make me to be a sinner.

And we are saved by faith AND works according to God's Word!

The Lord says the following thru the Apostle James:

James 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

James 1:21,22
Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness (walking after the flesh – see Gal 6:7,8), and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Apparently one is justified by faith AND by works.... and the man that believes justification is by faith only is a "vain" man.


Here's some quotes from the New Covenant that you obviously don't know much about.

2 Corinthians 8:9
For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that you through His poverty might be rich.

Romans 8:32
God spared not His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?

Philippians 4:19
My God shall supply all your need according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus. (as a benefit of sowing into the good ground of the ministry of Jesus Christ, which is the Body of Christ at work… not for pleasure of preachers!)

Luke 6:38
Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom (your life, domain). For with the same measure that you measure out it shall be measured to you again.

So if you believe living in poverty earns you right standing with the Lord... then by all means, live in poverty!

 

[Fred J]

Jesus did NOT make me to be a sinner.

Odd, where did you get that from, merely, you just misread my reply, that's all.

And we are saved by faith AND works according to God's Word!

'For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourself: it is the gift of GOD: Not of works, least any man should boast.' (Ephesians 2:8&9)

Apparently, you've got them mixed up, one, before you were saved, you received the gift of GOD freely. And, not of yourself nor of your works in the past life in recognition, you received to be saved.

Merely, because of HIS unmerited favor, you received freely the grace and faith in order to be saved. That, which evidently made you respond and receive salvation through the Gospel message.

The Lord says the following thru the Apostle James:

James 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Now, since you have been saved by the gift of GOD merely, and faith remain in you. Therefore, to move forward in that faith, now there is discipleship in the All Scripture = Holy Bible. That the man of GOD may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. (2Timothy3:16&17)

Finally, in faith to what you have been disciple with therein, especially the New Testament, also coreference to the Old. Therefore, you are to work them all out unto every good works, as wise and faithful servant. Now, that's what Apostle James meant addressing to the born again church.

That, 'Even so faith, if it hath no works, is dead, being alone.' (James2:17)

'For we are HIS workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which GOD hath before ordained that we should walk in them.' (Ephesians2:10)

'Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is GOD which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.' (Philippians2:12&13)

 

[MatthewG]

Moses walked with God as a person who missed the mark. He was used however by God, to establish what was the law, and priesthood, within the nation which Yahava, decided to his chosen nation, materially for a long time. Until the one whom was promised to come, Yeshua, the Word of God, the Son of Man, the Son of God, who would fulfilled the mark which was fulfilling the Law, and prophesy being that of the last of the prophets, foretelling of future events to the generation he spoke to. This would cause the divorcement of the nation of Israel in ending in a material end, however a now everstanding 12 gated city, named the Heavenly Jerusalem is now in sight for those who seek out God in faith, and come to know the Son by and through gradual revelation by the spirit and God working on the heart of those who are his and those who are allowing him to work on them as an individual by choosing to serve, the living God whom gave life to all of the world, creating all things that are within it.

All people have failed in points of the law, even without knowing which law it may have been, therefore all are considered sinners. However, because of the grace of God, and God through Christ, was able to reconcile the world back to himself because of the fulfilment of the old testament covenant, and the doom of destruction loomed over Israel, when the Wrath of God would fall upon them and great flames of fire, the inhabitants had started going up into smoke and people of the pharisees were thrown into Gehenna, not being served a proper burial, as promised by Jesus to come about in their lifetime.

Today, all people sins are forgiven. People who repent, change their mind about a certain action that perhaps takes time and dedication towards God away and they turn their mind around in ways to perhaps through experience make better choices as they walk by the spirit and walk in faith that Yahava, the God of Israel, is real and created the known universe, are able to seek out guidance and wisdom from the LORD, and when a person takes time to do these things, overtime more wisdom can be passed down to others before going on from this life here on the earth.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Now, since you have been saved by the gift of GOD merely, and faith remain in you. Therefore, to move forward in that faith, now there is discipleship in the All Scripture = Holy Bible. That the man of GOD may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. (2Timothy3:16&17)

And this is WHY the Lord says the following thru the Apostle James:

James 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

James 1:21,22
Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness (walking after the flesh – see Gal 6:7,8), and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Apparently one is justified by faith AND by works.... and the man that believes justification is by faith only is a "vain" man.

 

[DJT_47]

Yes. We're sinners still. Anyone that claims they no longer sin is fooling themselves. This letter was written to Christians, those who were already cleansed of their Past sins.

1 John 1:8-9

8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Yes. We're sinners still. Anyone that claims they no longer sin is fooling themselves.

Speak for yourself! That's YOUR conviction concerning yourself and it's not what God's Word teaches...

All things are possible thru Christ (Philippians 4:13), so THRU JESUS we actually DO have the ability to stop sinning

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not

Galatians 5:16
Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh

James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil

John 8:34
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

We should not be willingly or knowingly doing sinful things... it should be a very rare occasion for a Christian to sin and IF they did it would NOT be a situation where it's something they knew it was sinful and they decided to do it anyway.

1 John 1:8 is obviously speaking of if we claim we have never sinned... or if we make a mistake such as dropping something on the floor accidentally which is an imperfection that is not unto death (does not cause us to be separated from God like sin does)

The very next verse tells us if we confess out sins the Lord cleanses us of ALL unrighteousness... so is 1 John1:8 claiming 1 John1:9 is un-true???

 

[Peterlag]

Yes. We're sinners still. Anyone that claims they no longer sin is fooling themselves. This letter was written to Christians, those who were already cleansed of their Past sins.

1 John 1:8-9

8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I disagree. Many parts of Scripture mention different groups. A good example would be Roman 10:9 which is not addressed to Christians. It's within a part of the Bible where Paul tells you he's speaking to Israel and not the church of God. I do not believe John 1:8-9 is referring to the believers, but rather those who were not Christian.

A belief system called Gnosticism was taking root in Christianity at the time the book of John was being written that taught there was a supreme and unknowable Being, which they designated as the "Monad." The Monad produced various gods, who in turn produced other gods, and one of these gods called the "Demiurge" created the earth and then ruled over it as an angry, evil and jealous god. Gnostics believe this evil god was the god of the Old Testament who is called "Elohim" and so the Monad had to send another god known as the "Christ" to bring special knowledge to mankind and free them from the influence of the evil Elohim. And this is why the gnostics do not seek salvation from repenting of their sin (but rather from the ignorance of which sin is a consequence) that they believe the evil creator God and his angels caused. They emphasize salvation of select humans from bodily existence through their awakening to the knowledge of their original divine identity. I believe the Apostle John had them on his mind when he wrote the Epistle of 1 John saying you must realize you have sin and repent. John was not talking to the already saved Christian as the Catholics would like you to believe.

 

[Fred J]

And this is WHY the Lord says the following thru the Apostle James:

James 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

James 1:21,22
Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness (walking after the flesh – see Gal 6:7,8), and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Apparently one is justified by faith AND by works.... and the man that believes justification is by faith only is a "vain" man.

And, that is why also dear deviator, is written, 'For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of GOD: Not of works, lest any man should boast.'

Why do you skip what the Lord said through Apostle Paul then?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Why do you skip what the Lord said through Apostle Paul then?

That's NOT all the Lord said on this subject.

Those that do not except the whole counsel of God (cherry pickers)... will be deceived.

Some claim salvation is by faith alone... they do not understand that when we believe, they IS in fact a good work!

It's something WE do thru Christ.
It's not "earning" our salvation... it's responding properly to the Lord's plan of salvation for mankind.

John 6:28,29
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom he hath sent.

If we were to do nothing, the Jesus would have corrected them and told them "you heretics, quit trying to earn your salvation!" But that's NOT what Jesus told them.

Here are things God's Word tells us we must DO... to be saved:

*We must believe

John 6:28,29
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom he hath sent.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

*We must Repent

Mark 1:15
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

*We must Hear God's Word / Receive and Accept God's Word

Luke 8:12
Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

*Confess Your Sins

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

*Confess with your Mouth that Jesus is Lord

Romans 10:9,10
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

*Turn from Your Self Righteousness / Humble Yourself

Matthew 18:3
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Davy]

The question this Thread asks is a LOADED QUESTION, and it does not align with Bible Scripture.

If you say you walk with God as a sinner, you admit you still sin. If you say no, then it still makes you a sinner. There is no way to answer the question according to Bible Scripture, because it LEAVES what The Bible actually teaches.


What The Bible Actually Teaches On This Matter:

Apostle Paul taught that IF... we 'walk by The Spirit', then we are not under the law. The reason is because walking in The Spirit (i.e., The Holy Spirit), means we won't be doing anything that is against God's laws.

But then Paul taught the other walk is about walking in the flesh, doing the sins of the flesh, which most definitely the list of that he gave are against God's law, still to this day.

So it is impossible to walk in The Spirit and be breaking God's laws, because to walk in The Spirit like Paul says means not doing anything that is against God's laws. Does that mean the Christian cannot still have future sin? Nope.

This is why when the Christian does fall to future sin, they are to repent of it and ask Christ forgiveness, like Apostle John said in 1 John 1. That BIBLICAL TEACHING in 1 John 1 is what the deceived on men's false 'once saved, always saved doctrine' do not want you to know about!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

So it is impossible to walk in The Spirit and be breaking God's laws

That's why I posted these scripture verses... because we should NOT be doing sinful stuff!

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not

Galatians 5:16
Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh

James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil

John 8:34
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

 

[Davy]

That's why I posted these scripture verses... because we should NOT be doing sinful stuff!

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not

Galatians 5:16
Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh

James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil

John 8:34
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

You did not FINISH what Apostle John said in the 1 John 1 Chapter. You did a pick-n-choose of ONE verse in 1 John 1. Here is what you left out...

1 John 1:8-10
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
KJV

So those brethren who 'claim' they walk with Jesus, but still do future sin with not repenting to Him of it, make Jesus a liar, and His Word is not in them. That is man's OSAS doctrine which is false, because it tells believers the lie that they can never have sin anymore after believing on Jesus and been baptized. Apostle John was talking to believers on Jesus Christ there, and including himself when he says, "we".

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

You did not FINISH what Apostle John said...

Well, next time I'll have to post the entire Word of God to not leave anything out!

This is man's OSAS doctrine if false

No argument from me on that...

 

[Davy]

Apostle Paul showed in Romans 7 that while we are in this flesh body, we will STILL be subject to sin. The temptations of our flesh and of this world do not simply stop with believing on Jesus Christ. We are still able to commit sin after... having believed on Jesus Christ and having been baptized.


Apostle Paul is speaking as BELIEVER...

Rom 7:14-25
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Paul says above, that which he hates he finds himself doing. And what he would do, he does not. Paul admits that it is sin that dwells in him that causes that, and not himself (not his 'spirit' inside that does it).

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Paul pointed to our flesh being the cause of this problem, it's temptations and desires causing us to sin.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

When Paul says "it is no more I that do it", he is pointing to his 'spirit/soul' that dwells inside his flesh body. His spirit wants to do what is right according to The Father and The Son and The Holy Spirit. But because 'sin' dwells in his FLESH, his flesh still causes the sin.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Because of this, Paul shows the law reveals that evil is still present (i.e., by the flesh).

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

God's law is actually 'spiritual', like Paul said back at verse 14. That "inward man" is our 'spirit/soul' part that dwells inside our flesh. Our spirit/soul delights in the law of God.

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

But for this present world time, there is another law in our fleshy members, warring against the law of God of the inward man. It is the "law of sin" which is in our fleshy members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

To show that Paul is definitely pointing to his flesh body, he labels it "the body of this death".

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
KJV

That last statement by Apostle Paul is very important to grasp. It is about the battle between our flesh and the "law of sin" vs. our 'spirit' mind and the law of God. Our 'spirit/soul' inside always wants to do what God approves of. But the "law of sin" that IS IN OUR FLESH often prevents us from doing what is correct. Because of that we can find ourselves doing what he did NOT intend to do, and thus still commit a sin.

Only through release of our spirit/soul from this wretched flesh state will we stop having to deal with sin our flesh causes. That is why Paul also said, "For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Rom.6:7).

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Apostle Paul showed in Romans 7 that while we are in this flesh body, we will STILL be subject to sin.

No, Romans 7 man is not a Christian

Romans 7 man knows He needs to get right with the Lord but has not been born again yet and cannot control himself so we know he does not have the Holy Ghost since self control is one of the 9 fruit of the spirit

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Apostle Paul is speaking as BELIEVER...

Paul was not living in sin... out getting drunk, molesting the women at his meetings, telling tall tales to get people to give all their money, etc, etc... you're probably thinking of modern day preachers!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Only through release of our spirit/soul from this wretched flesh state will we stop having to deal with sin our flesh causes. That is why Paul also said, "For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Rom.6:7).

We are supposed to be dead with Christ and raised up as a new creature in Christ.
He's NOT saying we will keep living in sin until we die physically.

You gotta read the rest of God's Word!

All things are possible thru Christ (Philippians 4:13), so THRU JESUS we actually DO have the ability to stop sinning

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not

Galatians 5:16
Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh

James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil

John 8:34
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

We should not be willingly or knowingly doing sinful things... it should be a very rare occasion for a Christian to sin and IF they did it would NOT be a situation where it's something they knew it was sinful and they decided to do it anyway.

1 John 1:8 is obviously speaking of if we claim we have never sinned... or if we make a mistake such as dropping something on the floor accidentally which is an imperfection that is not unto death (does not cause us to be separated from God like sin does)

The very next verse tells us if we confess out sins the Lord cleanses us of ALL unrighteousness... so is 1 John1:8 claiming 1 John1:9 is un-true???

 

[DJT_47]

I disagree. Many parts of Scripture mention different groups. A good example would be Roman 10:9 which is not addressed to Christians. It's within a part of the Bible where Paul tells you he's speaking to Israel and not the church of God. I do not believe John 1:8-9 is referring to the believers, but rather those who were not Christian.

A belief system called Gnosticism was taking root in Christianity at the time the book of John was being written that taught there was a supreme and unknowable Being, which they designated as the "Monad." The Monad produced various gods, who in turn produced other gods, and one of these gods called the "Demiurge" created the earth and then ruled over it as an angry, evil and jealous god. Gnostics believe this evil god was the god of the Old Testament who is called "Elohim" and so the Monad had to send another god known as the "Christ" to bring special knowledge to mankind and free them from the influence of the evil Elohim. And this is why the gnostics do not seek salvation from repenting of their sin (but rather from the ignorance of which sin is a consequence) that they believe the evil creator God and his angels caused. They emphasize salvation of select humans from bodily existence through their awakening to the knowledge of their original divine identity. I believe the Apostle John had them on his mind when he wrote the Epistle of 1 John saying you must realize you have sin and repent. John was not talking to the already saved Christian as the Catholics would like you to believe.

Confession of sin does no good in and if itself, so, verse 9 relates to those who have been saved after which Confession is the remedy for sin. Verses 8 and 9 definitely relates to those who have been saved and subsequently sin whereby Confession is all that's necessary whereas baptism was initially necessary.