CALVINISM: The height of Spiritual depravity
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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Not so fast sir, not so fast! Another subject for another day. God is not the author of confusion in giving so many different versions of his word. I'll stop with that statement keep from hijacking the thread.
I don't know you or anything about you. If you are any part of an organizational decision, I want no part of the organization.
Now why wouldn't I be surprised to find that you think the KJV is the Authoritative Bible. It isn't of course because it contains errors just as all the others do.
Red, you know I love you as a brother in Christ, but now you are just being funny. John the Baptist taught that water baptism was for the forgiveness of sins. And so did Peter, Paul and all the rest of the apostles who spoke of it. You deny that and probably will to you last dying breath.
You have yet in all these years given me even one example where it claims that Jesus had or needed faith. As I have said so many times, the very idea that Jesus had or needed faith in God is ludicrous to the point of being an oxymoron.
Yes, the first time for everyone who has ever been born when God formed the spirit in him. The second time [born again] for those who believed in God.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
Ritajanice
Born-Again
We aren’t in the flesh were in the Spirit..
I slip into my old mindset from time to time, as a Born Again my mind is being renewed daily...we have the mind of Christ....
As we mature and grow in Christ, that old mindset dies......it’s understanding that old mindset....can takes years to understand....
A Born Again doesn’t continue to sin because they have been “ Born Again “ of “ imperishable seed”......not of perishable seed....
No other scripture regarding sin doesn’t apply to a “ Born Again “.....remember we must be “ Born Again “ ..one knows when they are Born Again imo.....you can’t think one is Born Again....as you well know, Born Again of imperishable seed is an act of God!.....the Spiritual Birth.......
Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
You should do a study and see what the New Testament says about being water baptized.
Jesus said "He that believeth and are baptized shall be saved" Mark 16:16
Being disobedient to the Lord ends badly...
The wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience. Colossians 3:6
Ritajanice
Born-Again
A Born Again doesn’t need to study that they are “ Born Again “ ...that is a spiritual act of God, who like the wind can turn up at any time.
The wind to cause destruction or maybe calm.
When the Holy Spirit turns up..who is like the wind, turn up at any time...and decides to Spirit gives birth to spirit...he makes us Born Again, which is the Spiritual birth....supernatural birth.....that can only come from God...no amount of head study can do that .....becoming Born Again is Gods decision....not ours.....Praise God Always.....no praise in this old sinner that used to be.....I’m nothing without the Spirit of God.....I have no knowledge in self....my spiritual knowledge is from God....via his Spirit....
A Born Again cannot continue to sin because they have been Born Again of imperishable seed and not perishable seed
Also do a study on wrath only unbelievers are under God’s wrath.....a Born Again is not.... @Big Boy Johnson ?
Those in darkness and sin are under God’s wrath.
A Born Again is in the Light, they have been reconciled back to God in the name of Jesus...it was his death and blood that was needed to reconcile us back to God...why was that?
How else could we be Born Again of the Spirit without Jesus?
Was Jesus not God in the flesh?
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Big Boy Johnson
Well-Known Member
2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
So called once saved always saved... is false doctrine.
If it were not possible to fall away, the Word of the Lord would not be saying some would depart from the faith...
1 Timothy 4:1,2
Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron
("depart from the faith" is not referring to sinners in the world who never came to faith in the first place)
2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
So called once saved always saved... is false doctrine.
If it were not possible to fall away, the Word of the Lord would not be saying some would depart from the faith...
1 Timothy 4:1,2
Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron
("depart from the faith" is not referring to sinners in the world who never came to faith in the first place)
2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Take note then.
Ephesians 2:1-5 “As for you, you were dead in transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest we were by nature objects of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions.”
A Born Again will “ Never “ lose their salvation...they have been Born Again by the “ Living “ word of God/ of imperishable/ incorruptible seed.....that is Gods word and he never lies or try’s to sow confusion....only man does that.....
Born Again is of the Spirit.....
Man only wants to Glorify himself....
A Born Again only wants to Glorify God.....that is their calling....
Water saves no one....only the Holy Spirit can save us, when we become Born Again by his seed, the Living word of God.
Born Again and saved from eternal damnation.....that is the correct context.
Water gets us wet....we get water baptised after we have become Born Again of the “ Spirit “...an act of obedience........Praise God!!
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Good morning Jim, trust all is going well with you~Jim, you are getting old ( well, we both are, but you are getting close to ninety ) and your memory, while still in tact, is fading...... ;)
Jesus secured the redemption of his people as a man living in the flesh ~yes, he was a man, a real man, a man's man, 100 % man! He was tempted as we are in all points as a man, not as God. To be short, it was his faith and perfect obedience that overcame the devil, and world in his flesh. When we see God, it will be only in the glorified person of the man Jesus. God is a Spirit that dwells in eternity, always has, always will, this will never change world without end. No one has ever seen God ~ impossible to do so without being consumed, no man, no angels........ Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God, saints will live with him world without end. Jesus will be subject unto God as the man Christ Jesus, yet in his Deity, Jesus is the almighty God, the everlasting Father of all things.
Yes, my friend, Jesus as a man had faith that cause him to condemned sin in the flesh.
I'll leave you with this wonderful scriptures:
Big Boy~I prefer once loved, always loved ~ is truly scriptural teaching.
What does “once saved” mean?
It is used by those who think salvation is merely a choice and recitation of a prayer. Rather than believing God’s sovereign will and work in salvation, they teach the heresy of decisional regeneration – sinners in the flesh decide when God must save them, contrary to the Bible (John 1:13; 3:6-8; 5:21,25-29,39; Rom 8:7-8; 9:15-16; Gal 5:17; Eph 2:1-3; Jas 1:18). They limit salvation to the moment they decided to be saved. This includes the inventions of “going forward” and/or “inviting Jesus into my heart.” They look at this date as the “once saved” event that counts.What does “always saved” mean?
For those who pin salvation on their decision, it means salvation cannot be taken away or lost, no matter how they live. “Always saved” guarantees salvation, regardless of what happens later, whether they live a holy and righteous life or one of sin without fruit or good works. This is unscriptural and inconsistent! The Bible does not guarantee salvation to those living wickedly; the only assurance of salvation is by good works (Ps 15:1-5; Matt 7:21-23; John 8:31-32; II Cor 5:17; Phil 2:12-16; Titus 3:8; Jas 1:26-27; I John 2:4; 3:10).Where did it come from?
The saying did not come from the Bible. There is nothing like it in the Bible. Two situations caused the invention of this saying. First, since it was hard to believe that repeating words as a child actually brought salvation, especially when living a sinful life later, this saying was needed to comfort those who had made such a decision that they were definitely going to heaven. Second, since many others believe you can lose your salvation, like Roman Catholics and the so-called Church of Christ, this cute little jingle was invented to oppose the heresy of losing eternal life.What is so bad about it?
The trite saying, “Once saved, always saved,” has two lies as shown in the previous answers. Eternal life is not something a sinner chooses in an event of time. It is something planned, paid for, and applied by the triune God. The Bible denies that God planned, paid for, and applied anything for salvation for those who end perishing. On top of reducing salvation to quoting an unscriptural mantra, these heretics promise eternal life to people that show no changed life at all. These two false promises have deceived millions into grossly misunderstanding salvation ~but worse it has given many a false hope of eternal life.What effect has this heresy had?
It has promoted false confidence of eternal life, leading to lascivious living; and it has discouraged the hearts of God’s elect by such an effeminate and compromising doctrine (Ezek 13:22). Today’s easy-believism is pathetic and profane, as any means are used to extract superficial professions of salvation, which lead to lascivious living by most of those who have been guaranteed eternal life (John 8:30-32; Jas 2:14; Jude 1:4). And God’s elect, who crave the powerful teaching of a sovereign God and righteous living, are left starving under milquetoast “preaching.”Can a decision save a person?
No! Decisional regeneration was invented by Charles Finney and popularized by Billy Graham, who reduced salvation to a few words repeated as a salvation mantra. This idea is not taught in the Bible. Today, they even debate whether a person must admit Jesus is lord! They take Rev 3:20 from the church at Laodicea for fellowship and apply it to sinners for eternal life! The real issue is God’s choice to accept us in Jesus Christ (Rom 9:15-16,21-24; Gal 4:9; Eph 1:3-6).Part one of three
But I thought I chose to be saved?
You thought wrong. The Bible never encourages you to trust a past decision you made. Even Paul’s confidence for eternal life was in fighting a good fight, finishing his course, and keeping the faith (II Tim 4:7-8). He knew whom he had believed, not that he had believed, and not when he had believed (II Tim 1:12)! Faith in God is no more than devilish faith (Jas 2:19), but faith in your faith is more profane (Rom 9:15-16)! You are saved from condemnation by your position in Christ, to which you were chosen, and which is proven by godliness (Rom 8:1; Eph 1:3-6).When and how am I saved?
Men are saved in five different senses in the scriptures. God elected some men before the world began (Eph 1:3-6; II Tim 1:9). Jesus died for them on the cross (Gal 4:4-5; I Tim 1:15). The Holy Spirit regenerates them in time (John 3:8; Titus 3:5). They are converted by the gospel to various degrees (I Cor 15:2; II Tim 1:10). They are finally glorified in heaven (Rom 8:29-30; I Pet 1:3-5). Only those predestinated end up glorified (Rom 8:29-33; Eph 1:3-12). Your faith, baptism, or any good works are the evidence and result of salvation, not conditions for it.Can a child of God lose his salvation?
No, a child of God can never lose heaven and end up perishing. He may lose earthly benefits of knowing and living the truth, but his name will stay in the book of life. God predestinated His elect to adoption as sons through the purchase price of Jesus Christ’s death (Gal 4:4-6; Eph 1:3-6). Jesus Christ will stand before God and present every one of them to God (Heb 2:13). It is impossible for even one to be separated from God’s love (Rom 8:28-39). It is God’s faithfulness that keeps them, not their faithfulness. He will never repent of His gift of eternal life (Rom 11:29).Will any elect be cast into the lake of fire?
No, that is impossible! The word “elect” means that God chose a person to eternal life before the world began (Rom 8:29-33; Eph 1:3-12; I Pet 1:2). God put the elect in the hand of Jesus Christ, and no man is able to pluck them out of either Christ’s hand or God’s hand (John 10:28-29). Just as surely as Adam made all men sinners, so Jesus Christ made all the elect righteous and beneficiaries of eternal life (Rom 5:14-19; I Cor 15:22). It is just as impossible for Jesus Christ to be cast into the lake of fire as it is for even one elect in Jesus Christ to be cast into the lake of fire. (Ps 89:19-37; Heb 6:13-20).Can Jesus lose any He died for?
No, that is entirely impossible! Jesus promised He would raise up every single person God gave Him (John 6:39). God has made all the elect accepted in Jesus Christ the Beloved (Eph 1:3-6). Everyone in Jesus Christ, the elect are chosen in Him, will be saved to the uttermost (Heb 7:25). Jesus Christ will present every single one of the elect to God (Heb 2:13). Since His death was so precious, God will give every other gift to the elect (Rom 8:32). If anyone for whom Jesus died could be lost, then God would have to reject His Son’s work, which cannot occur (Is 53:10-12).What is the basis of eternal security?
The faithfulness and power of God and the meritorious value and perpetual intercession of Jesus Christ (Rom 5:10; 8:34; I Cor 1:8-9; Heb 7:25)! The elect's salvation from sin and condemnation was secured by two immutable acts of God...his oath and his promises! Psalms 89...There is no other basis for confidence in eternal life, either now or later. The “once saved, always saved” crowd takes comfort in a mere decision for Jesus, for God and Jesus Christ have put forth the same effort for the lost in hell! Even at funerals, they assure families that their loved ones are in heaven based on an event in the past, rather than God’s grace or Christ’s work. No one in the Bible did anything even close to this error.Part two of three
Part three of three...maybe one more after this one...
How can I know I am elect?
Believe on Jesus Christ, repent of your sins, and live a righteous life with zeal. Peter listed eight good works, beginning with faith, which can prove election sure to your own heart and conscience (II Pet 1:5-11). Paul declared that the Thessalonians were God’s elect by three good works (I Thess 1:2-4). James declared that it is good works by which we can distinguish ourselves from believing devils, since faith by itself is proof of nothing (Jas 2:14-26). Paul told Timothy to lay hold of eternal life for assurance by righteous living and giving (I Tim 6:11-12,17-19).Can I have assurance of salvation?
Yes! Your assurance of eternal life depends on a couple things – your faith in the will of God and the finished work of Jesus Christ and your good works that provide the evidence you are one of His elect (Rom 10:8-17; I Thess 1:2-4; II Pet 1:5-11; Heb 6:9-12; Jas 2:14-26). If you play with sin, you grieve and quench the witness of the Holy Spirit that you are a child of God (Rom 8:13-16; Gal 4:6; Eph 4:30; I Thess 5:19). John wrote to confirm possession of eternal life, and he wrote about personal righteousness and love (I John 5:13).Am I saved by my works?
No! The Bible declares unequivocally that human works of any kind are not the means of obtaining eternal life (Rom 9:11,15-16; Eph 2:8-9; II Tim 1:9; Titus 3:3-7). Justification, the forgiveness of sins, and eternal life are by the obedience of one – Jesus Christ (Is 53:10-12; Rom 5:19; II Cor 5:21; Heb 1:3). God will not share His glory with another, and salvation by works puts Him in a position of debt to sinners, which He is not at all (Rom 4:1-8; I Cor 1:29-31). Salvation is a free gift by the grace of God without works (Rom 3:24; 5:15-18; 6:23; 8:32; 11:5-6).Can I be saved without works?
Yes, but you can never rightly have assurance without good works. Conversion and fruitbearing by God’s elect vary from none to much, from Lot to Abraham, from Demas to Paul. Some of God’s elect live barren lives without fruit (Luke 8:11-18; II Pet 1:5-9). The repentant thief went to heaven, and there were no good works following him (Rev 14:13). Some of the elect, even ministers, will have their works burned up (I Cor 3:15). Without works, you have no evidence of eternal life, because faith always presumes works (John 8:30-32; I Thess 1:2-4; Jas 2:14-16).Can “once saved, always saved” be used correctly?
Yes, if it is limited to the will or operation of God, it can be used truthfully. If “once saved” is applied to the will of God in election, the death of Christ in justification, or the cleansing of the Spirit in regeneration, these are certain events of salvation that definitely occurred at points in time and result in eternal life. If any one of these salvation events has occurred for a person, then “always saved” is entirely true for that person. In particular, we can glory in this manmade phrase by applying it to the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ (John 19:30; Heb 9:12; 10:10-14).How is “once saved, always saved” inconsistent?
If eternal life begins by your choice, then consistency requires you to keep that salvation by your obedience. Roman Catholics, who offer eternal life through sacraments, are consistent by teaching you can lose your salvation, if you sin later. True Arminianism, from Jacobus Arminius, also teach that you can lose eternal life by sinning after your freewill decision that got salvation started. It is Finney, Moody, Graham and others that popularized the inconsistent combination of decisional salvation with a perpetual guarantee.
Is “perseverance of the saints” the solution?
No! Calvinists invented the doctrine of perseverance. Knowing that righteousness is the true evidence of eternal life, they teach fatalistically that God guarantees all the elect will live holy and righteous lives. This is not the case, or there would be no purpose for preaching or warnings against apostasy. God preserves the elect by His grace and integrity in Jesus Christ, but He does not guarantee their perseverance in holiness and righteousness (Rom 8:28-39; I Cor 10:1-11; 11:32; II Tim 2:13,16-19; Heb 6:17-20).Can I fall from grace?
Yes, it is possible to fall from grace, because Galatians 5:4 and Hebrews 12:15 declare it so. But you must understand what falling from grace means before you foolishly presume believers can lose eternal life and go to hell (Neh 8:8; II Tim 2:15). In Galatians 5:4, Paul warned about falling from the true doctrine and understanding of grace by mixing it with the Law of Moses. He did not teach that these believers were going to hell. In Hebrews 12:15, Paul warned about failing of the true grace of God by living carnal and worldly lives (Heb 12:11-17).Can the elect’s faith be overthrown?
Yes, it is possible to have your faith wrecked by false teachers, persecution, or temptations. Hymenaeus and Philetus overthrew the faith of some by teaching the resurrection had already come and gone; but God still knew those who were His, which is the real issue of eternal life anyway (II Tim 2:15-19). Paul warned Timothy to ministerial faithfulness, lest he cost his hearers the truth and righteous living (I Tim 4:16). And he told Corinth that they were of all men most miserable, if they let false teachers steal the doctrine of the resurrection from them (I Cor 15:2,19).Does severe chastening mean I am going to perish?
No, chastening means you are a son of God and He is dealing with you in love, even when the chastening is severe enough to be compared to scourging (Heb 12:5-8). God’s chastening is proof positive that you will not be condemned with the world, which He does not love or chasten (I Cor 11:32; Matt 7:23). God loved Israel of old very much, but He punished them for their sins with the loving care of a Father (Deut 7:6-11; I Cor 10:1-11; Ps 78:1-72; 106:43-48; 118:18; Is 44:21-22; Ezekiel 16:1-63). Consider how God dealt with David (II Sam 12:7-14).Similar threads
