Questions for Sabbatarians

[Hobie]

Maybe the board should have a section where they "Roast" people! View attachment 40235

Christians should try to lift up and edify with the truth that God gives, and all this 'roasting' is not even qualifying as educating or helping others. We need to 'cool the heat' as they say come up with a nice level of discussion so everyone can learn from it, not be 'burnt' by it..

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

On the other hand... some take themselves way too seriously and think of themselves much higher than they ought to, to the point that they think anyone who disagrees with them is practicing witchcraft or something

 

[Ghada]

Christians should try to lift up and edify with the truth that God gives, and all this 'roasting' is not even qualifying as educating or helping others. We need to 'cool the heat' as they say come up with a nice level of discussion so everyone can learn from it, not be 'burnt' by it..

Was Jesus being nice when rebuking the Jews' traditions? Was Stephen being nice when he condemned the leadership for hypocrisy? Was apollos not nice when boldly refuting the Jews in their own synagogues?

Do you promote unity over truth? Or civil debate without getting personal?

Do you denounce showing Christians teaching things contrary to the Bible? Or that we can learn what not to teach from the proven errors of others?

Do you forbid rebuking any teaching? Or just draw the line at personally 'burning' others, even when wrong?

This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

Let's look at what God says about arguing over His word, which is called disputing the Scriptures:

Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.

The apostles and disciples have always freely and openly disputed the Scriptures. Such liberty of doctrinal argument is encouraged by God, so long as we do not sin by personally assaulting others.

Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

Cults shut down any dispute of their teachings and rule over the people by the truth of the Bible. The same result is in the name of tolerance. They both act like 'arguing' over the Bible is either seditious or discourteous.

Disputing over what the Bible says and teaches, is healthy for individual decisions of faith and life. It is also a good exercise and discipline for learning to rightly divide the word of truth, so long as we remain correctible. That is until it is made personal by hardened people, that do not want to be disagreed with.

But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.

We see here how some were initially willing to have an open dispute about Bible truth, until their position was threatened. That is when they hardened their hearts against good correction, and instead began to make personal insults and charges.

They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

Cults shut down any disagreement for the sake of power over the people. Zealot unity seekers shun any disagreement for the sake of harmony and concord. The cult cast out the dissenters, the unifiers brand them 'not nice'.

Let all things be done decently and in order.

Having an honest dispute is promoted in the Bible, and should never be abridged. Unless it becomes sinful disorderly personal conduct.

It is those that refuse correction, who normally default into personal attacks and accusation. We find that they resent and despise anyone daring to disagree with them, especially when it hits the mark. That is because their trust in their own doctrine, and especially justification in life, is being threatened. Lest it expose their corrupted heart and pricks their defiled conscience, they go on a personal attach and rant to shut down further debate.

When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

There is also of course another kind of disputing that is unhealthy and ungodly:

Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth.

Perverse disputing is just people arguing over their own opinions, philosophies, and religions without regard to what God says in the Bible.

A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

Once we see that someone does not care what the Bible says about such things, then we become fools ourselves by continued argument.

However, sometimes we find such hereticks in our own ranks. There are hardened believers, that really don't care about all of God words in the Bible. Any words of God that do threaten their personal faith, doctrine, and especially justification, are either rejected or twisted into something else more suitable to their personal life.

Hope this helps. It's the rule I go by in all arguments I make from the Bible. Such as now when being accused of 'unnice' discourse.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Christians should try to lift up and edify with the truth that God gives

Yes, based on what God teaches in the New Testament... as we are under the New Testament now.

 

[BarneyFife]

Yes, based on what God teaches in the New Testament... as we are under the New Testament now. View attachment 40333

Bible Gateway passage: 1 John 2:7 - New King James Version

Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning.

www.biblegateway.com

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 26:22 - New King James Version

Therefore, having obtained help from God, to this day I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses said would come—

www.biblegateway.com

Bible Gateway passage: Luke 24:27 - New King James Version

And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.

www.biblegateway.com

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Timothy 3:16 - New King James Version

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

www.biblegateway.com

Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 22:19 - New King James Version

and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

www.biblegateway.com

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[Big Boy Johnson]

And then... there's always cherry pickin!

 

[BarneyFife]

Christ, the Lord of the Sabbath

Read Matthew 12:1-2. What is going on here? Why would the Pharisees consider this action as "not lawful" ?

Deuteronomy 23:25 states: "When you come into your neighbor’s standing grain, you may pluck the heads with your hand, but you shall not use a sickle on your neighbor’s standing grain" (NKJV). The problem, therefore, was not the action itself, but the day on which it was done. Rabbinical regulations expressly prohibited many types of works on Sabbath, such as reaping, threshing, and winnowing. In the Pharisees’ opinion, by plucking the ears of grain, rubbing them in their hands, and separating the grain from the husk, the disciples were guilty of doing all of them.

What is the significance of the examples that Jesus used to answer the Pharisees? See Matt. 12:3-5.

With the first example (1 Sam. 21:1-6), Christ argued that, although in normal circumstances David and his men should not have eaten the bread meant for the priests (Lev. 24:9), yet because their lives were in danger their actions should be considered a permissible violation of a ceremonial rule. The second example Jesus mentioned (Matt. 12:5) has to do with the sacrifices and offerings ordained for the Sabbath day in the temple service, which were twice as many as those offered on any other day (Num. 28:9-10). The Jews themselves recognized that the temple service had priority over the Sabbath.

After citing these examples, Jesus made two statements that vindicate His authority to redefine the Pharisees’ burdensome observance of the Sabbath: (1) "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath" (Mark 2:27, NKJV). Here Jesus reaffirms the Edenic origin of the Sabbath, and redefines the incorrect priorities of the Pharisees regarding man and the Sabbath: the Sabbath was created to benefit human beings and continues as a God- given gift at the service of humanity, instead of humanity at the service of the Sabbath. And (2), by saying: "the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath" (Mark 2:28, NKJV), Christ ratified His status as Creator and Legislator of the Sabbath. Therefore, He alone had the authority to free the Sabbath from these man-made laws.

The spiritual leaders of God’s people charged the Lord of the Sabbath with violating the day that He Himself had created and sanctified. What message should we all take from this about the dangers of spiritual blindness among those who should know better?



.

 

[BarneyFife]

The Example of Jesus

What does Luke 4:16 tell us about Jesus’ attitude toward the Sabbath? Why is this so important for us today? See John 14:15, 1 Pet. 2:21.

The word Luke used in verse 16, custom, comes from a Greek word related to habits constant in time and practice. In other words, Jesus regularly attended synagogue every Sabbath that He could. Moreover, this is so important to Luke that four times in his Gospel he mentions Jesus’ attendance at the synagogue on different Sabbaths (Luke 4:16, 4:31, 6:6, 13:10). Also, Luke specifically identifies the Sabbath as the seventh day of the week (Luke 23:54-24:1). The fact that Jesus Christ, during His earthly ministry, observed the seventh-day Sabbath, along with the Jews, testifies that the weekly cycle had not been lost since the giving of the law at Sinai, or even since creation. His example as an observer of the Sabbath is a model for Christians to follow, in both time and manner of observance.

What did Jesus read on that special occasion in the synagogue? Why is this significant? See Luke 4:16-21.

This wasn’t the first time Jesus read and spoke at a synagogue. More than a year had already gone by since He was baptized in the Jordan River. However, this was Jesus’ first visit to Nazareth after leaving the carpenter shop, where He spent the first 30 years of His life and where He attended the local synagogue. During His youth, often in the synagogue on the Sabbath day He was called upon to read the lesson from the prophets, and the hearts of the hearers thrilled as a new light shone out from the familiar words of the sacred text.

But this time it was different. Jesus selected a particular passage, Isaiah 61:1-2, a text that explains the Messiah’s work on earth and how He will come "to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord" (Luke 4:19, NKJV). That was the Sabbatical, or jubilee, year, a time of rest. Appropriately, Jesus chose the day of rest, the Sabbath, to announce His ministry of redemption, liberation, and healing. Truly, we find rest in Jesus, a rest expressed in a tangible way every Sabbath day.


.

 

[BarneyFife]

Miracles on the Sabbath

The Gospels mention numerous miraculous healings that Jesus carried out on the Sabbath day. It is interesting to note that, in most cases, the healing came by Jesus’ initiative, as if He purposely wanted to heal on the Sabbath, though He could have done it any other day. Jesus was trying to make a point: healing on the Sabbath was not unlawful. On the contrary, it was more lawful than what many of the Pharisees and religious leaders were accustomed to doing on the Sabbath.

What arguments are given in each of these texts to justify Jesus’ healings on the Sabbath? Matt. 12:10-12; Luke 13:15-16; John 5:16-17.

Although it is true that we must set aside our own interests during the Sabbath (Exod. 20:9, Isa. 58:13), it should never be considered as a period of useless idleness. In His controversies with the Pharisees, Christ clearly pointed out that "it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath" (Matt. 12:12, NKJV). According to rabbinic traditions, a sick person could be treated on the Sabbath if the situation was life-threatening. Likewise, if a sheep or an ox fell into a pit, it was permissible to pull the animal out on the Sabbath day to save its life. Wasn’t a person’s life more valuable than an animal’s? Unfortunately, Christ’s critics showed more compassion toward their own animals than to suffering human beings. They approved watering an animal, but not restoring a person.

Jesus also stated: "My Father has been working until now, and I have been working" (John 5:17, NKJV), referring to God’s work in favor of His creatures. Even on the Sabbath day He continues giving life and sustaining the universe (Heb. 1:2-3).

Jesus taught that we should not be legalistic when observing the Sabbath. To keep it means to "rest" from our own works (Heb. 4:10) and, even more important, to stop trying to work our way to salvation-which is impossible anyway. Satan wants to convince us to keep the Sabbath selfishly. If he cannot move us against the Sabbath, he will try to push us to the other extreme: legalism.

Though it’s easy to be legalistic about the Sabbath, others can be very lax in keeping it. How do we strike the right balance? Also, why must we be careful in our response to how others keep the Sabbath (don’t forget how the Pharisees viewed Christ’s Sabbath keeping)?


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[BarneyFife]

The Sabbath After the Resurrection

Many Christians keep Sunday instead of the Sabbath, offering a host of reasons, the main one being the resurrection of Christ. Besides the minor detail that nothing in the New Testament, including the passages on the resurrection, teaches that Sunday is to replace Sabbath, the New Testament shows that Christ intended for His Sabbath to be kept even after His resurrection.

What does Matthew 24:20 have to say about the Sabbath in the years following the resurrection of Jesus?

Christ’s words in Matthew 24:20 show us that in a.d. 70, about forty years after His death, the Sabbath was to be considered as sacred as it had always been. The commotion, excitement, fear, and travel necessary to flee from Jerusalem would be inappropriate on the Sabbath day.

What other New Testament evidence do we find that shows the seventh-day Sabbath remained sacred after the resurrection of Christ? See Acts 13:14, 42; 14:1; 17:1-2; 18:4.

For the disciples, going to the synagogue was what church attendance should be for us today: one of the best ways to observe the Sabbath. This is especially noticeable with the apostle Paul, who was present at the synagogue services on Sabbath when no Christian church was there. Although he was the apostle to the Gentiles and the champion of justification by faith, he usually went to the synagogue on Sabbath, not only to preach to the Jews but also to keep holy the Sabbath day.

One Sabbath, after the synagogue service was finished, the Gentiles begged Paul to preach the gospel to them. The apostle could have invited them to hear him the next day, Sunday, but he waited one week. "The next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God" (Acts 13:44, NKJV). These texts provide powerful evidence that the early church knew nothing of the first day of the week as a replacement for the seventh.

OK, so we know we’re right about the right Sabbath day. That’s important, of course. How, though, can our Sabbath keeping make us Christians who are more compassionate, loving, and caring?


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[Ghada]

Jesus did not 'redefine' the 4th commandment of the Lord's OT sabbath.

David's men were eating shewbread, while fleeing gvt persecution. They were not working on the sabbath.

The priests were ordained full-time ministers of God. They were not working on a job nor career.

The 4th commandment sabbath of the OT, commandment execution of death for any person of covenant working on the Sabbath.

The modern sabbath is a working sabbath, that has nothing to do with the OT 4th commandment of the Lord.

Jesus also did not 'redefine' the Pharisee sabbath, but only reconfirmed God's OT sabbath, that the Pharisees were making a mockery of by made up rules.

The Christian sabbath also mocks the OT Lord's sabbath, by made up work exceptions with corban.

The commanded Christianized sabbath a lawless mockery of the OT 4th commandment.

The 4th commandment for the Lord's sabbath began at the mount of the OT, and ended with the OT at the cross. Circumcision was commanded before the OT sabbath, and brought into the Law of Moses, and likewise ended the Lord's sabbath with the OT.

Christians commanding a carnal sabbath by law, are as Judaizers commanding outward circumcision by law.

 

[Ghada]

The example of Jesus a Jew after the flesh in the OT, was to keep the OT 4th commandment as written.

He never did carpentry work on the Lord's sabbath, unlike Christians that do carpentry, medical, gvt, military work on their sabbath, or whatever kind of job they choose to work on.

The Pharisees made a mockery of the OT 4th commandant, by adding their own burdensome rules to it. By violating their traditions, the Pharisees falsely accused Jesus of breaking the Lord's sabbath.

The Christians make a mockery of their own commanded sabbath, by taking away from any rule not to work on it. By justifying their tradition, they must also accuse Jesus of violating the Lord's sabbath by doing carpentry work on it.

 

[Ghada]

Jesus needed no justification from God to heal on the sabbath. He only proved the mockery of the sabbath, that was made by Pharisees added rules.

Healing on any day is not a violation of God's law and commandments.

 

[Ghada]

But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Jesus was still speaking to OT Jews of the OT sabbath in His own day. It shows the greatness and urgency of prophesied tribulation.

It says nothing of a continued holy sabbath after His resurrection.

Trying to wring a sanctified sabbath commandment out of Matthew 24:20, is like JWs trying to wring the name of Jehovah out of Halleluiah in Rev 19.

And even as JWs must reject the Word was God, so these lawless Christianized sabbath keepers must reject the word not to keep nor judge any day as by law.

 

[Ghada]

And because of some Christians commanding their sabbath days, they still have petty arguments of which day is the 'real' sabbath day.

Which doesn't matter, since the sabbath command of old is ended.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

Whether in meats or days, carnal Christians make a voluntary show of humility, in those which the Lord and Head Jesus Christ does not command. And in those things of meats and days, they are puffed up by carnal mindedness against the innocent.

 

[Ghada]

Converted Jews continued going to unbelieving Jewish synagogues on their sabbath days, because they had right to do so, and they were the common meeting places for all Jews after the flesh.

Paul was directed to cleanse himself by the law of Moses, in order not to antagonize the unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem. Likewise Christians today would be directed to keep a sabbath, so as not to antagonize a sabbath-keeping community.

Christians keeping a sabbath, abstaining from meats, having their babes circumcized, or even performing cleansing rituals, do not sin nor transgress the law of Christ. So long as it is not done as by law, and especially not made commandment for all other Christians to keep and be judged by.

(Of course with the pathetic version of today, no one can even be a sabbath breaker by working on the job or career, much less judged for it...)

Making up such rules and traditions by which to judge other Christians, is how schism if most made in the body of Christ. It's the same way Jews of old divided themselves from their own Lord and Messiah, by judging Jesus as a transgressor, and having Him crucified.

Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors;

 

[Ghada]

Christ, the Lord of the Sabbath

Read Matthew 12:1-2. What is going on here? Why would the Pharisees consider this action as "not lawful" ?

Deuteronomy 23:25 states: "When you come into your neighbor’s standing grain, you may pluck the heads with your hand, but you shall not use a sickle on your neighbor’s standing grain" (NKJV). The problem, therefore, was not the action itself, but the day on which it was done. Rabbinical regulations expressly prohibited many types of works on Sabbath, such as reaping, threshing, and winnowing. In the Pharisees’ opinion, by plucking the ears of grain, rubbing them in their hands, and separating the grain from the husk, the disciples were guilty of doing all of them.

What is the significance of the examples that Jesus used to answer the Pharisees? See Matt. 12:3-5.

With the first example (1 Sam. 21:1-6), Christ argued that, although in normal circumstances David and his men should not have eaten the bread meant for the priests (Lev. 24:9), yet because their lives were in danger their actions should be considered a permissible violation of a ceremonial rule. The second example Jesus mentioned (Matt. 12:5) has to do with the sacrifices and offerings ordained for the Sabbath day in the temple service, which were twice as many as those offered on any other day (Num. 28:9-10). The Jews themselves recognized that the temple service had priority over the Sabbath.

After citing these examples, Jesus made two statements that vindicate His authority to redefine the Pharisees’ burdensome observance of the Sabbath: (1) "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath" (Mark 2:27, NKJV). Here Jesus reaffirms the Edenic origin of the Sabbath, and redefines the incorrect priorities of the Pharisees regarding man and the Sabbath: the Sabbath was created to benefit human beings and continues as a God- given gift at the service of humanity, instead of humanity at the service of the Sabbath. And (2), by saying: "the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath" (Mark 2:28, NKJV), Christ ratified His status as Creator and Legislator of the Sabbath. Therefore, He alone had the authority to free the Sabbath from these man-made laws.

The spiritual leaders of God’s people charged the Lord of the Sabbath with violating the day that He Himself had created and sanctified. What message should we all take from this about the dangers of spiritual blindness among those who should know better?



.

The Example of Jesus

What does Luke 4:16 tell us about Jesus’ attitude toward the Sabbath? Why is this so important for us today? See John 14:15, 1 Pet. 2:21.

The word Luke used in verse 16, custom, comes from a Greek word related to habits constant in time and practice. In other words, Jesus regularly attended synagogue every Sabbath that He could. Moreover, this is so important to Luke that four times in his Gospel he mentions Jesus’ attendance at the synagogue on different Sabbaths (Luke 4:16, 4:31, 6:6, 13:10). Also, Luke specifically identifies the Sabbath as the seventh day of the week (Luke 23:54-24:1). The fact that Jesus Christ, during His earthly ministry, observed the seventh-day Sabbath, along with the Jews, testifies that the weekly cycle had not been lost since the giving of the law at Sinai, or even since creation. His example as an observer of the Sabbath is a model for Christians to follow, in both time and manner of observance.

What did Jesus read on that special occasion in the synagogue? Why is this significant? See Luke 4:16-21.

This wasn’t the first time Jesus read and spoke at a synagogue. More than a year had already gone by since He was baptized in the Jordan River. However, this was Jesus’ first visit to Nazareth after leaving the carpenter shop, where He spent the first 30 years of His life and where He attended the local synagogue. During His youth, often in the synagogue on the Sabbath day He was called upon to read the lesson from the prophets, and the hearts of the hearers thrilled as a new light shone out from the familiar words of the sacred text.

But this time it was different. Jesus selected a particular passage, Isaiah 61:1-2, a text that explains the Messiah’s work on earth and how He will come "to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord" (Luke 4:19, NKJV). That was the Sabbatical, or jubilee, year, a time of rest. Appropriately, Jesus chose the day of rest, the Sabbath, to announce His ministry of redemption, liberation, and healing. Truly, we find rest in Jesus, a rest expressed in a tangible way every Sabbath day.


.

The Sabbath After the Resurrection

Many Christians keep Sunday instead of the Sabbath, offering a host of reasons, the main one being the resurrection of Christ. Besides the minor detail that nothing in the New Testament, including the passages on the resurrection, teaches that Sunday is to replace Sabbath, the New Testament shows that Christ intended for His Sabbath to be kept even after His resurrection.

What does Matthew 24:20 have to say about the Sabbath in the years following the resurrection of Jesus?

Christ’s words in Matthew 24:20 show us that in a.d. 70, about forty years after His death, the Sabbath was to be considered as sacred as it had always been. The commotion, excitement, fear, and travel necessary to flee from Jerusalem would be inappropriate on the Sabbath day.

What other New Testament evidence do we find that shows the seventh-day Sabbath remained sacred after the resurrection of Christ? See Acts 13:14, 42; 14:1; 17:1-2; 18:4.

For the disciples, going to the synagogue was what church attendance should be for us today: one of the best ways to observe the Sabbath. This is especially noticeable with the apostle Paul, who was present at the synagogue services on Sabbath when no Christian church was there. Although he was the apostle to the Gentiles and the champion of justification by faith, he usually went to the synagogue on Sabbath, not only to preach to the Jews but also to keep holy the Sabbath day.

One Sabbath, after the synagogue service was finished, the Gentiles begged Paul to preach the gospel to them. The apostle could have invited them to hear him the next day, Sunday, but he waited one week. "The next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God" (Acts 13:44, NKJV). These texts provide powerful evidence that the early church knew nothing of the first day of the week as a replacement for the seventh.

OK, so we know we’re right about the right Sabbath day. That’s important, of course. How, though, can our Sabbath keeping make us Christians who are more compassionate, loving, and caring?


.

Very fine scholarship indeed. Well written, good grammar, and a dash of scholar-speak sprinkled in.

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Any carnal sabbath kept as by law today, is the belly served by carnal minded Christians, Jews, and Muslims alike.

Whether Friday, Saturday, or Sunday, it's just a belly-full of fleshly religion.

However, those who only choose to do so by voluntary religious liberty, are blessed in their faithful walk with Jesus.

Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

I wouldn't be surprised if many voluntary sabbath keepers have to congregate with hardcore sabbath commandoes. They just don't get into all the huff&puff shows over it. They also no doubt roll their eyes, when it's time to trot out the corban excused justifications for working on their commanded sabbaths without transgression.

If I lived in some town primarily run by Sabbath commanders, then I too would congregate with them, so as not to unduly antagonize the community. However, I would certainly do some eye-rolling at times of sabbath commandment celebrations with leaping and dances...

 

[GracePeace]

And it is the precepts of the Ten Commandments that are moral and thus eternally binding

When Paul says we're not under Law, but are under Grace, he means all of the Law, because the Law is weak in that it relies on sinful flesh (Romans 8:3; Galatians 3:3): "by the works of the Law, no flesh will be justified for by the Law is the knowledge of sin", and "I would not have known what it was to covet except the Law had said, 'do not covet'", so, here, Paul is saying we do not serve (do any good thing) by the Law.

That said, when we are under Grace, we fulfill the Law's "righteous requirement" (Ro 8:4) by loving our neighbors and doing them no harm (Ro 13:8-10).

The question, then, is as to whether 7th Day Sabbath is included in those "righteous requirements" we fulfill when we walk by the Spirit (Gentile believers were deemed "doers of the Law" despite not having or knowing the Law Ro 2:13-15, 26, 27).

1. Paul never indicts anyone as a "Sabbath breaker", though he has many opportunities to do so (eg, his long lists of evil deeds he condemns).

2. In many places, Paul militates against the idea of forcing anyone to observe a day (Ro 14; Gal 4), and even downplays the 7th Day Sabbath as a mere "shadow" that we shouldn't allow anyone to judge us about observing (Col 2).

These two things together ought to be sufficient to teach you the 7th Day Sabbath isn't binding, yet you choose to submit yourselves to a woman teacher's doctrines (White's), contrary to Scripture, which says Paul never permits a woman to teach me or exercise authority over them.

Good luck with that.

 

[BarneyFife]

These two things together ought to be sufficient to teach you the 7th Day Sabbath isn't binding, yet you choose to submit yourselves to a woman teacher's doctrines (White's), contrary to Scripture, which says Paul never permits a woman to teach me or exercise authority over them.

You're wonderfully arrogant. Don't you determine for yourself what is sufficient to teach you something? Why should I be expected to submit to your judgment? If you don't like any information that's being shared, you are at perfect liberty to reject it.

Besides, you forget—according to you, I don't know what I'm talking about, anyway.

It might interest you to know that Mrs. White never formulated a doctrine in her life—never claimed to. She got Christian Sabbatarianism from a man who got it from the Seventh-day Baptists, an organization established over two centuries before there was any such thing as a Seventh-day Adventist.

In fact, it could just be that you don't know what you're talking about. I mean, it's a possibility. At least, to the mind of almost anyone but you.

.

 

[GracePeace]

You're wonderfully arrogant. Don't you determine for yourself what is sufficient to teach you something? Why should I be expected to submit to your judgment? If you don't like any information that's being shared, you are at perfect liberty to reject it.

You're here trying to get everyone else to submit your judgment--don't toss rocks if you live in a glass house.

Besides, you forget—according to you, I don't know what I'm talking about, anyway.

You really don't.

It might interest you to know that Mrs. White never formulated a doctrine in her life—never claimed to. She got Christian Sabbatarianism from a man who got it from the Seventh-day Baptists, an organization established over two centuries before there was any such thing as a Seventh-day Adventist.

In fact, it could just be that you don't know what you're talking about. I mean, it's a possibility. At least, to the mind of almost anyone but you.

Even if she were saying correct things (she wasn't), she oughtn't to have been a teaching figure over men.