Questions for Sabbatarians

[Big Boy Johnson]

1. Where is the proof that any man ever kept the seventh day, except by special commandment, prior to the proclamation of the ten commandments at Mount Sinai? (Gen. 2:2, 3; Ex. 16:23-30; 20:1-17).

1. If Christians are required to keep the seventh day, why do you depart from your dwelling on that day, seeing those to whom the law was given were plainly commanded not to do so? (Ex. 16:29).
   

1. If you keep one Sabbath – the seventh day – why not keep them all, the seventh year and the year of Jubilee? Who authorized you to make distinction in favor of the seventh day? (Lev. 25 :1-22)
   

1. If Christians are required to keep the Sabbath, how are they to live in cold climates when it is forbidden to build a fire on the Sabbath? (Ex. 35:1-3).
   

1. Is it the duty of Christians to put to death those who desecrate the seventh day? (Num. 15:32-36). If yes, who will be the public executioner? If no, what will you do with the law? (Ex. 35:2). If you say that the penalties are abolished, I answer that the same passages that you use to establish this prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that the law, too, is abolished. If you admit that the penalties are still in force-and the proof that they are unanswerable and invincible if the law is in force-there is not a Seventh Dayist on top of the green earth who can escape the vengeance of the broken law!
   

1. If Christians are under obligation to observe the seventh day, why did Jesus declare that all law and prophecy hang on love instead of the Sabbath, seeing the command to keep it is the one on which you hang your everlasting all? (Matt. 22:34-40; Rom. 13:8-10).
   

1. Why did Jesus not require the young ruler to keep the Sabbath when enumerating the commandments? (Matt. 19:16-20; Mark 10:17-22; Luke 18:18-24).
   

1. If Christians are to keep the law of Moses-the Sabbath-why did the apostles and elders who met at Jerusalem leave it out of their address to the churches? (Acts 15 :1-29). This case finds, in some respects, a parallel in your theorizing. Judaizing teachers had gone forth declaring to the brethren that unless they would submit to circumcision and keep the law of Moses they could not be saved. The apostles said, “We gave no such commandment.”
   

1. If Christians are required to keep the Sabbath, how are we to account for the open violation of the law by Jesus Christ, who is our example, unless by saying that the power that made the law can take it away (John 7 :22-23).
   

1. If you keep the Sabbath because you think it was kept before the law of Moses, why do you not practice circumcision, seeing it is plainly commanded in these ages? (Gen. 17:1-14; Gal. 5:1-6).
   

1. When did patriarch, prophet, or apostles, or anybody else, command any Gentile to keep the law of Moses? No dodging here. Proof! Proof! Proof!
   

1. Paul says the ministration of death written and engraved in stone (Ex. 20:1-17; 31:18; 32 6:15-16; 34:1-28) was done away (2 Cor. 3:1-18). When, where, and by whom was it brought back into force? Name the day, the age, the authority, and give proof from the Book! If your doctrine is true the great apostle of the Gentiles stands convicted of a mistake.
   

1. If the early Christians kept the Sabbath day, why did they break bread on the first day of the week? (Acts 20:7).
   

1. If Christians are to keep the Sabbath day, how do you account for the fact that the apostles preached the gospel in Jerusalem, Samaria, to Cornelius the Gentile, and to many others, without commanding a single individual to keep it? Did they, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit fail to properly instruct their converts? (Acts 2:1-47; 8:1-40; 10:1-48 ;16:1-40).
   

1. Is it not a fact, according to the book of Acts, that the thing done was of more importance than the day? Acts 20:7.
   

1. Can you demonstrate that the day you keep is really the seventh day or Sabbath, coming down in regular succession from the day on which God keeps? If not, your day is no better than any other day. Admitting, for argument’s sake, that the law of Moses is still in force, and that the fourth commandment is binding on the whole human race, will you affirm that it is possible for all men to keep the same day?
   
   
   If so, how do you explain the fact that the traveler who starts out to go around the earth, gains, say, if going east, one hour for every thousand miles traveled, or if going west loses an hour for every thousand miles traveled? How far would he go before he lost the count? Do you not see that he would inevitably be behind or in advance? Further, how do you explain the fact that far away toward the extremes of the earth, traveling from the equator, there are periods of six months night and six months day from age to age? Do you not see that it is a geographical impossibility for all men to keep the same day, and that the Law was only intended for one people, one country, and one age?
   

1. Do you keep the Sabbath day? No dodging, do you? Do you rest, or put in the day promulgating your doctrines? If you do not keep the day according to the Law, you do not keep it at all. If part is done away, then all is done away. Read Exodus 20:8-11; 35:1-3.
   
   
   

 

[L.A.M.B.]

One cannot serve two masters. It is either you serve God by living in his word or your serve your own prophets in rebellion to God's word.

 

[ScottA]

Sadly...with all the amount of arguing and discussion on this topic, it would appear that those who insist upon keeping the Sabbath practice, see the immediate reference to it--by some sort of short scriptural attention span, and simply do not reconcile it with the rest of scripture. Meaning, these simply have not yet come to fully "worship in spirit and in truth."

Which is no real sin, and perhaps not worth arguing about. In fact, it's only a problem when they make half-truth claims and preach them as if they are the gospel truth. Unfortunately, we are then [scripturally] obligated to offer correction...fulfilling Jesus' proclamation, saying, “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword." Unfortunately.

Historically then, yes, such is now the pattern for millennia--and the common comeback is to call "holier than thou" against those who are actually no holier, but simply recipients of spiritual knowledge which comes to us all, but not at the same time. Which is me denying to actually be "holier than thou." I claim nothing--except to the contrary, that God chooses the least of persons to actually carry the water.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Yep, and it's unlikely that any of the sabbatarians hanging around will be able to answer any of these questions.

 

[quietthinker]

1. Where is the proof that any man ever kept the seventh day, except by special commandment, prior to the proclamation of the ten commandments at Mount Sinai? (Gen. 2:2, 3; Ex. 16:23-30; 20:1-17).

1. If Christians are required to keep the seventh day, why do you depart from your dwelling on that day, seeing those to whom the law was given were plainly commanded not to do so? (Ex. 16:29).
2. If you keep one Sabbath – the seventh day – why not keep them all, the seventh year and the year of Jubilee? Who authorized you to make distinction in favor of the seventh day? (Lev. 25 :1-22)
3. If Christians are required to keep the Sabbath, how are they to live in cold climates when it is forbidden to build a fire on the Sabbath? (Ex. 35:1-3).
4. Is it the duty of Christians to put to death those who desecrate the seventh day? (Num. 15:32-36). If yes, who will be the public executioner? If no, what will you do with the law? (Ex. 35:2). If you say that the penalties are abolished, I answer that the same passages that you use to establish this prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that the law, too, is abolished. If you admit that the penalties are still in force-and the proof that they are unanswerable and invincible if the law is in force-there is not a Seventh Dayist on top of the green earth who can escape the vengeance of the broken law!
5. If Christians are under obligation to observe the seventh day, why did Jesus declare that all law and prophecy hang on love instead of the Sabbath, seeing the command to keep it is the one on which you hang your everlasting all? (Matt. 22:34-40; Rom. 13:8-10).
6. Why did Jesus not require the young ruler to keep the Sabbath when enumerating the commandments? (Matt. 19:16-20; Mark 10:17-22; Luke 18:18-24).
7. If Christians are to keep the law of Moses-the Sabbath-why did the apostles and elders who met at Jerusalem leave it out of their address to the churches? (Acts 15 :1-29). This case finds, in some respects, a parallel in your theorizing. Judaizing teachers had gone forth declaring to the brethren that unless they would submit to circumcision and keep the law of Moses they could not be saved. The apostles said, “We gave no such commandment.”
8. If Christians are required to keep the Sabbath, how are we to account for the open violation of the law by Jesus Christ, who is our example, unless by saying that the power that made the law can take it away (John 7 :22-23).
9. If you keep the Sabbath because you think it was kept before the law of Moses, why do you not practice circumcision, seeing it is plainly commanded in these ages? (Gen. 17:1-14; Gal. 5:1-6).
10. When did patriarch, prophet, or apostles, or anybody else, command any Gentile to keep the law of Moses? No dodging here. Proof! Proof! Proof!
11. Paul says the ministration of death written and engraved in stone (Ex. 20:1-17; 31:18; 32 6:15-16; 34:1-28) was done away (2 Cor. 3:1-18). When, where, and by whom was it brought back into force? Name the day, the age, the authority, and give proof from the Book! If your doctrine is true the great apostle of the Gentiles stands convicted of a mistake.
12. If the early Christians kept the Sabbath day, why did they break bread on the first day of the week? (Acts 20:7).
13. If Christians are to keep the Sabbath day, how do you account for the fact that the apostles preached the gospel in Jerusalem, Samaria, to Cornelius the Gentile, and to many others, without commanding a single individual to keep it? Did they, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit fail to properly instruct their converts? (Acts 2:1-47; 8:1-40; 10:1-48 ;16:1-40).
14. Is it not a fact, according to the book of Acts, that the thing done was of more importance than the day? Acts 20:7.
15. Can you demonstrate that the day you keep is really the seventh day or Sabbath, coming down in regular succession from the day on which God keeps? If not, your day is no better than any other day. Admitting, for argument’s sake, that the law of Moses is still in force, and that the fourth commandment is binding on the whole human race, will you affirm that it is possible for all men to keep the same day?
    
    
    If so, how do you explain the fact that the traveler who starts out to go around the earth, gains, say, if going east, one hour for every thousand miles traveled, or if going west loses an hour for every thousand miles traveled? How far would he go before he lost the count? Do you not see that he would inevitably be behind or in advance? Further, how do you explain the fact that far away toward the extremes of the earth, traveling from the equator, there are periods of six months night and six months day from age to age? Do you not see that it is a geographical impossibility for all men to keep the same day, and that the Law was only intended for one people, one country, and one age?
16. Do you keep the Sabbath day? No dodging, do you? Do you rest, or put in the day promulgating your doctrines? If you do not keep the day according to the Law, you do not keep it at all. If part is done away, then all is done away. Read Exodus 20:8-11; 35:1-3.
    
    

Excuses to negate the fourth Commandment come in by the truck load.....yet at the end of the day it stands just as strongly as the other nine.....and do we think that deliberately ignoring/ denying/ misrepresenting or dismissing any of God's Commandments written on stone are to be without consequences?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

DID you know... God's Word teaches the old covenant has been done away with because we now have a NEW covenant

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

DID you know...God's Word teaches that Christians are NOT following Moses as their high priest because now we have a NEW High Priest Who is Jesus Christ?

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

God did away with the old covenant where Moses was the high priest and made a new Covenant where Jesus Christ is the High Priest and since the priesthood has been changed, there has been a change of the law from the law of Moses to the Law of Christ..

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Those who try to keep the law of Moses are responsible for keeping ALL of the law of Moses and if they don’t keep all of the law, they are guilty of failing to keep the law. Christians are NOT called to keep the law of Moses... we are under the law of Christ now. (see - Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2, 2 Peter 1:4-10)

James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

DID you know...this is not looking good at all for the Saturday Sabbatarians... according to God's Word!

 

[quietthinker]

DID you know... God's Word teaches the old covenant has been done away with because we now have a NEW covenant

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

DID you know...God's Word teaches that Christians are NOT following Moses as their high priest because now we have a NEW High Priest Who is Jesus Christ?

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

God did away with the old covenant where Moses was the high priest and made a new Covenant where Jesus Christ is the High Priest and since the priesthood has been changed, there has been a change of the law from the law of Moses to the Law of Christ..

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Those who try to keep the law of Moses are responsible for keeping ALL of the law of Moses and if they don’t keep all of the law, they are guilty of failing to keep the law. Christians are NOT called to keep the law of Moses... we are under the law of Christ now. (see - Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2, 2 Peter 1:4-10)

James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

DID you know...this is not looking good at all for the Saturday Sabbatarians... according to God's Word! View attachment 39115

Did you know that what men do with God's Laws reflect on them, not on God.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Did you know that what men do with God's Laws reflect on them, not on God.

Yes and when the Lord says the law of Moses has ended and the Law of Christ is now in effect with Jesus now being our High Priest rather than Moses... we should honor the Lord's New Covenant and quit playing around with the old one!

Hebrews 3:1-6
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

 

[quietthinker]

Yes and when the Lord says the law of Moses has ended and the Law of Christ is now in effect with Jesus now being our High Priest rather than Moses... we should honor the Lord's New Covenant and quit playing around with the old one!

Hebrews 3:1-6
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

is there a difference?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

is there a difference?

All the details are in that Bible you wuZ gonna go out and buy!

 

[quietthinker]

All the details are in that Bible you wuZ gonna go out and buy!

but I'm asking' the experts!

 

[BarneyFife]

Where is the proof that any man ever kept the seventh day, except by special commandment, prior to the proclamation of the ten commandments at Mount Sinai?

The question presumes that for a law to be in existence, there must be some exact account in Scripture of a man having observed or having been taught that law. This presumption is wholly illogical.

It also implies two claims: First, that the Sabbath was instituted in a Jewish setting. This claim is intended to prepare the way for the next, that the Sabbath was made only for the Jews.

Texts like Exodus 16:29 and Nehemiah 9:13,14 are supposed to neutralize the statement in Genesis 2:2,3 and effectively expunge it from the record. But does one Scriptural statement do that to another? No. When one text appears to contradict another we may be sure that we have made a mistake in our interpretation of one or the other of the texts. Genesis 2:2,3 stands firmly as a testimony that God rested on the seventh day of the first week of time and then and there blessed it. Thus we are prepared at the outset to believe that whatever Exodus 16:29 and Nehemiah 9:13,14 teach, they do not teach contrary to Genesis 2:2, 3.

Exodus 16:29 is part of the narrative of the giving of the manna, which was to be collected each day for the six working days, with twice as much to be collected on the sixth day, because God gave no manna on the seventh day. But some of the Israelites, contrary to God's command, went out on the Sabbath day to collect it. This caused the Lord to inquire of Moses: "How long refuse you to keep my commandments and my laws? See, for that the Lord hath given you the Sabbath, therefore he gives you on the sixth day the bread of two days." Ex. 16:28,29.

Nehemiah, long afterward, recalls what God did for Israel in bringing them out of captivity, declaring in part: "Thou came down also upon mount Sinai, and spoke with them from heaven, and gave them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments: and made known unto them thy holy Sabbath, and, commanded them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant." Neh. 9:13,14.

These passages deal with essentially the same incidents and are so similar in construction that they may be considered together. Let us note certain phrases:

1. "The Lord bath given you the Sabbath." Ex. 16:29.
2. "Gave them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments." Neh. 9:13.
3. "Made known unto them thy holy Sabbath." Neh. 9:14.

The answer to the objection before us is found clearly revealed in the second of these three phrases. If, as claimed, the construction of the first and the third phrase requires the conclusion that the Sabbath law did not exist before the Exodus, then the construction of the second phrase requires us to conclude that the wide range of statutes, laws, and commandments that were formally stated at Sinai did not formerly exist. Therefore, not only would it have been no sin to work on the seventh day, previous to the Exodus, but it would have been no sin, previous to Sinai, to have done any of the things prohibited by the various laws and commandments which God "gave them" at that time.

But no one will claim that it would have been right to do the latter, for he agrees that nine of the Ten Commandments are an expression of eternal moral principles. When, at Sinai, God commanded, "Thou shall not commit adultery," it might be said, in one sense of the word, that He then gave Israel the law against sexual immorality. It was the first formal proclamation of that principle to the newly formed nation that stood in need, at the outset, of a clearly expressed code of laws. But no one believes for a moment that previous to the giving of that law against adultery from the flaming mount, there was no divine ban on adultery and therefore no sin in indulging in immoral acts.

Even so with the Sabbath law. It, along with the other great precepts of the Ten Commandments, and many other statutes, was formally made known to Israel as they began their national life. The long darkness of Egypt had quite blurred their understanding of God's will. Now by the light of the pillar of fire, God made dear to them all His requirements, including the Sabbath.

God declares, "I made myself known unto them [The Israelites], in bringing them forth out of the land of Egypt." Eze. 20:9. Would the objector reason from this text that God did not exist before the Exodus? No. Then why contend that the Sabbath did not exist before that time simply because God then made it known to Israel? The facts are that the knowledge both of God and of the Sabbath had largely faded from the minds of the Israelites during their long Egyptian bondage.

Only a word needs to be said in reply to the claim based on the fact that the Scriptures are silent about anyone's keeping the Sabbath before the Exodus. The few pages of the Bible that precede the account of the Exodus cover some twenty-five hundred years. Obviously, only a few highlights of the long record could be penned. Chiefly, Moses sought to provide it running narrative to connect creation with the events that followed the fall of man, on down through the Flood, the call of Abraham, the rise of Israel, and their exodus from Egypt. Little is mentioned of the religious activities in which men engaged during those twenty-five hundred years. To present this silence of Scripture as proof against the seventh day Sabbath is to rely on an extremely weak argument.

Those who promote the importance of Sunday generally include in their reasoning that man needs a recurring day of worship each week, but they do not set any bounds of time or place on that claim. Hence those who lived before the Exodus were in need of such a recurring day. Seeing they were, would God fail to provide for that need? Indeed, did He not do that very thing when, at creation, He set apart for a holy use the seventh day? And do we need to find a specific mention of their keeping that day before we reasonably conclude that holy men like Enoch, Noah, and Abraham kept that holy day? In fact, what other conclusion would be reasonable?

 

[BarneyFife]

If Christians are required to keep the seventh day, why do you depart from your dwelling on that day, seeing those to whom the law was given were plainly commanded not to do so? (Ex. 16:29).

The instruction given in Exodus 16:29 is a prohibition against going out to gather food—not to stay inside like a prisoner.

Leviticus 23:3 declares that the weekly Sabbath is a sacred assembly.

a day of sacred
קֹ֔דֶשׁ (qō·ḏeš)
Noun - masculine singular
Strong's 6944: A sacred place, thing, sanctity

assembly.
מִקְרָא־ (miq·rā-)
Noun - masculine singular construct
Strong's 4744: Something called out, a public meeting, a rehearsal

.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

See there... you ARE trying to keep the old testament law... parts of it at least.

To do this in good conscience one has to ignore New Testament directives.

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Those who try to keep the law of Moses are responsible for keeping ALL of the law of Moses and if they don’t keep all of the law, they are guilty of failing to keep the law.

Christians are NOT called to keep the law of Moses... we are under the law of Christ now.
(see - Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2, 2 Peter 1:4-10)

James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

 

[BarneyFife]

If Christians are required to keep the Sabbath, how are they to live in cold climates when it is forbidden to build a fire on the Sabbath? (Ex. 35:1-3).

The prohibition against kindling a fire is not part of the fourth commandment of the Ten Commandments. And it is the precepts of the Ten Commandments that are moral and thus eternally binding.

There were many civil as well as ceremonial statutes given to Israel that had limited duration. For example, there were civil statutes that declared how a slave should be treated. (See Ex. 21:1-11) The Sabbath objector finds in these statutes of the holding of slaves, for example, no justification for slavery today. Instead, he agrees with the Sabbath keeper that many of the statutes given to Israel through Moses were an adaptation of great moral principles to the degree of moral understanding of the Israelites, or to particular situations that existed locally. Therein lies the basic distinction between the moral commands of the Decalogue given to Israel directly by God on Sinai, and the host of other statutes given through Moses.

Now if the Sabbath objector feels free to discard the statute on the care of slaves while holding that nine of the ten commands of the Ten Commandments are still in force, are we not equally reasonable in discarding the statute against kindling fires on the Sabbath while holding that all ten commands of the Ten Commandments are still in force?

It is not even certain, from the context, that the command to the Jews against Sabbath fires was intended to apply to other than their wilderness journeying. The command comes as a preface to a series of commands concerning the erection of the tabernacle, which commands had life only so long as the tabernacle was under construction, and then died by limitation. The Jews themselves have never been agreed on whether the prohibition against Sabbath fires extended beyond the wilderness period. In the wilderness, the temperature was rather generally warm, hence fire would hardly be needed to protect against sickness. The Israelites were instructed to bake and seethe on the sixth day such of the manna as they desired to eat in that form on the Sabbath day. Hence there was no need to kindle a fire for cooking on that day.

Again, to "kindle" a fire in those times meant to engage in very real and extended labor. As the Pulpit Commentary in its comments on Exodus 35:3 observes:

"The kindling of fire in early times involved considerable labor. It was ordinarily effected by rubbing two sticks together, or twisting one round rapidly between the two palms in a depression upon a board. Fire only came after a long time. Moreover, as in the warm climate of Arabia and Palestine artificial warmth was not needed, fire could only have been kindled there for cooking purposes, which involved further unnecessary work. . . . The Jews generally view the precept as having had only a temporary force."

In the light of these facts, how could the prohibition against kindling fires raise any possible doubt as to the moral quality and permanency of the fourth command of the Ten Commandments?

 

[BarneyFife]

Is it the duty of Christians to put to death those who desecrate the seventh day? (Num. 15:32-36). If yes, who will be the public executioner? If no, what will you do with the law? (Ex. 35:2). If you say that the penalties are abolished, I answer that the same passages that you use to establish this prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that the law, too, is abolished. If you admit that the penalties are still in force-and the proof that they are unanswerable and invincible if the law is in force-there is not a Seventh Dayist on top of the green earth who can escape the vengeance of the broken law!

Exodus 31:14 reads, "You shall keep the Sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defiles it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever does any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people."

Deuteronomy 13:6, 10; 21:18, 21; 22:21-28, and all of Leviticus 20 contains a whole series of injunctions concerning the putting to death of persons who were idolaters, who were rebellious to their parents, who committed adultery or were guilty of incest, who cursed father or mother—in fact, who violated any part of the moral code. Indeed, someone has estimated that no less than nine of the Ten Commandments are specifically mentioned in connection with the penalty of death for their violation.

Do you believe that the idolater, for example, ought to be put to death, or the son who curses his father? Of course you answer no. Then, according to your logic, if you believe that this penalty should not be enforced today, you evidently believe that it is no longer wrong to be an idolater, for example, or for a son to curse his father. But such a conclusion would obviously be monstrous, to say nothing of being unreasonable. Yet it would be no more unreasonable than tile contention that because present-day Sabbath keepers do not believe Sabbath breakers should be put to death, therefore the Sabbath law is abolished. This kind of reasoning proves too much, and thus proves nothing.

I agree that if a law has no penalty, it has no force. But it does not follow that because we do not believe in stoning people, therefore we believe there will be no punishment for those who violate the Sabbath or any other part of the law of God.

The only difference between the ancient Jewish order of things and ours today is as regards the time of punishment and the executor of the punishment. When God was the direct ruler, He saw fit to have an immediate punishment inflicted. Now the evildoer must look forward to the last great day of judgment. (See Heb. 10:26-29)

Therefore let not the Sabbath breaker feel at ease in his mind simply because God has not suddenly brought judgment upon him for his violation of the fourth precept of the Ten Commandments, which declares that the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God, Creator of heaven and earth.

The story is told of a certain godless man who found special delight in flaunting his disobedience of the Sabbath command. He lived in a locality where the other farmers near him were devout Sabbath keepers. When October came and he harvested his crop, he found that he had even more in his barn than his neighbors. Meeting the Sabbath-keeping minister on the street one day, he gloatingly mentioned this fact. The minister's only reply was: "God does not always make a full settlement in October." No better answer could have been given.

The faithful Sabbath keeper awaits the day of final judgment to receive his full reward for obedience to God, the Creator of the whole earth. Likewise, the Sabbath violator must await that last great day of accounting in order to receive the final reward for his failure to obey the explicit command of God. The violation of the law of God is sin, the Scriptures inform us (1 John 3:4), and the wages of sin is death (Rom. 6:23). Is that not a sufficient penalty?

.

 

[BarneyFife]

If Christians are under obligation to observe the seventh day, why did Jesus declare that all law and prophecy hang on love instead of the Sabbath, seeing the command to keep it is the one on which you hang your everlasting all? (Matt. 22:34-40; Rom. 13:8-10).

It is quite true that Christ said, "A new commandment I give unto you, That you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another." John 13:34. Would the objector want to reason from this that all other commandments are abolished? The text does not allow such a conclusion. Christ did not say that we should keep His commandments in the place of His Father's commandments. It would be rebellion for the Son to free us from the Father's laws and set up new ones in their place. Christ's purpose was not to destroy the great moral teachings and laws that had been given in former centuries. In His sermon on the mount He declared.. "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matt. 5:17, 18.

And when we read further in that wonderful sermon, we find Christ telling His hearers that they were viewing various commandments of the Ten Commandments in too narrow a sense. Instead of abolishing or even restricting His Father's commandments, Christ magnified them.

Thus in His commandment to the disciples concerning love, Christ wanted them to view love in a more magnified, a more holy sense than formerly. He wanted them to love one another, not as the world interprets love, selfishly or even merely sentimentally. By His life Christ had set before them an example of what true, unselfish love really is, such love as had never before been witnessed on the earth. In this sense His commandment might be described as new. It charged them, not simply "that you love one another," but "that you love one another, as I have loved you." John 15:12. Strictly speaking, we have here simply one more evidence of how Christ magnified His Father's laws.

But what of the statement that love is the fulfilling of the law? The objector often expands this by saying that Christ declared that all we are to do is to love God with all our heart and our neighbor as ourselves. Let us read exactly what the Bible does say on this matter.

"Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shall love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shall love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” Matt. 22:35-40.

Christ was here setting forth no new doctrine. On the contrary, He was answering the specific question, "Which is the great commandment in the law?" His answer is almost an exact quotation from the Old Testament. (See Deut. 6:5; Lev. 19:18) In other words, the two great commandments to love God and to love our neighbor belong definitely to Old Testament times. Now then, if these two commandments take the place of the Ten Commandments, why were the Ten Commandments ever given? But the very Israelites who listened to the exhortation to love God and their neighbor also listened to the clear-cut command to obey the ten precepts of the Ten Commandments.

No, these two commandments on love do not take the place of any other law. Instead, Christ declared that "on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." How evidently wrong, then, to make these two commandments hang by themselves, and cut off everything else. This is contrary to the teaching of Christ.

According to the Bible you cannot separate love from law. "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5:2, 3. Thus reads the Good Book. If we truly love our fellow man, we will not steal his goods or lie about him or kill him. Indeed, we will not do any of the things prohibited by God's commandments. And if we truly love God, we will not bow down to false gods, or take God's name in vain, or use for our own purpose His holy Sabbath day. In other words, if we love God and our fellow men, we will not willfully break any of the Ten Commandments. Thus is love the fulfilling of the law. Instead of love's being a substitute for law, it is the one power that brings forth true obedience to God's commandments. The Bible warns us against those who say they know and love God but refuse to keep His commandments. (See 1 John 2:4.) Such love is counterfeit.

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[WalterandDebbie]

1. Where is the proof that any man ever kept the seventh day, except by special commandment, prior to the proclamation of the ten commandments at Mount Sinai? (Gen. 2:2, 3; Ex. 16:23-30; 20:1-17).

1. If Christians are required to keep the seventh day, why do you depart from your dwelling on that day, seeing those to whom the law was given were plainly commanded not to do so? (Ex. 16:29).
2. If you keep one Sabbath – the seventh day – why not keep them all, the seventh year and the year of Jubilee? Who authorized you to make distinction in favor of the seventh day? (Lev. 25 :1-22)
3. If Christians are required to keep the Sabbath, how are they to live in cold climates when it is forbidden to build a fire on the Sabbath? (Ex. 35:1-3).
4. Is it the duty of Christians to put to death those who desecrate the seventh day? (Num. 15:32-36). If yes, who will be the public executioner? If no, what will you do with the law? (Ex. 35:2). If you say that the penalties are abolished, I answer that the same passages that you use to establish this prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that the law, too, is abolished. If you admit that the penalties are still in force-and the proof that they are unanswerable and invincible if the law is in force-there is not a Seventh Dayist on top of the green earth who can escape the vengeance of the broken law!
5. If Christians are under obligation to observe the seventh day, why did Jesus declare that all law and prophecy hang on love instead of the Sabbath, seeing the command to keep it is the one on which you hang your everlasting all? (Matt. 22:34-40; Rom. 13:8-10).
6. Why did Jesus not require the young ruler to keep the Sabbath when enumerating the commandments? (Matt. 19:16-20; Mark 10:17-22; Luke 18:18-24).
7. If Christians are to keep the law of Moses-the Sabbath-why did the apostles and elders who met at Jerusalem leave it out of their address to the churches? (Acts 15 :1-29). This case finds, in some respects, a parallel in your theorizing. Judaizing teachers had gone forth declaring to the brethren that unless they would submit to circumcision and keep the law of Moses they could not be saved. The apostles said, “We gave no such commandment.”
8. If Christians are required to keep the Sabbath, how are we to account for the open violation of the law by Jesus Christ, who is our example, unless by saying that the power that made the law can take it away (John 7 :22-23).
9. If you keep the Sabbath because you think it was kept before the law of Moses, why do you not practice circumcision, seeing it is plainly commanded in these ages? (Gen. 17:1-14; Gal. 5:1-6).
10. When did patriarch, prophet, or apostles, or anybody else, command any Gentile to keep the law of Moses? No dodging here. Proof! Proof! Proof!
11. Paul says the ministration of death written and engraved in stone (Ex. 20:1-17; 31:18; 32 6:15-16; 34:1-28) was done away (2 Cor. 3:1-18). When, where, and by whom was it brought back into force? Name the day, the age, the authority, and give proof from the Book! If your doctrine is true the great apostle of the Gentiles stands convicted of a mistake.
12. If the early Christians kept the Sabbath day, why did they break bread on the first day of the week? (Acts 20:7).
13. If Christians are to keep the Sabbath day, how do you account for the fact that the apostles preached the gospel in Jerusalem, Samaria, to Cornelius the Gentile, and to many others, without commanding a single individual to keep it? Did they, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit fail to properly instruct their converts? (Acts 2:1-47; 8:1-40; 10:1-48 ;16:1-40).
14. Is it not a fact, according to the book of Acts, that the thing done was of more importance than the day? Acts 20:7.
15. Can you demonstrate that the day you keep is really the seventh day or Sabbath, coming down in regular succession from the day on which God keeps? If not, your day is no better than any other day. Admitting, for argument’s sake, that the law of Moses is still in force, and that the fourth commandment is binding on the whole human race, will you affirm that it is possible for all men to keep the same day?
    
    
    If so, how do you explain the fact that the traveler who starts out to go around the earth, gains, say, if going east, one hour for every thousand miles traveled, or if going west loses an hour for every thousand miles traveled? How far would he go before he lost the count? Do you not see that he would inevitably be behind or in advance? Further, how do you explain the fact that far away toward the extremes of the earth, traveling from the equator, there are periods of six months night and six months day from age to age? Do you not see that it is a geographical impossibility for all men to keep the same day, and that the Law was only intended for one people, one country, and one age?
16. Do you keep the Sabbath day? No dodging, do you? Do you rest, or put in the day promulgating your doctrines? If you do not keep the day according to the Law, you do not keep it at all. If part is done away, then all is done away. Read Exodus 20:8-11; 35:1-3.
    
    

Hello Big Boy Johnson, It is always best to obey the words of the LORD concerning His Sabbaths.

Love, Walter And Debbie

 

[BarneyFife]

Why did Jesus not require the young ruler to keep the Sabbath when enumerating the commandments? (Matt. 19:16-20; Mark 10:17-22; Luke 18:18-24).

Arguments from silence aren't very convincing. And this one in particular is just plain nonsense.

No Christian would ever dare say: "Since Christ didn't require the rich young ruler to have no other gods before Jehovah, or to abstain from idolatry or taking the LORD's name in vain, why should the new covenant Christian be bound to such things?"

Does anything more really need to be said here?

.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Arguments from silence aren't very convincing. And this one in particular is just plain nonsense.

No Christian would ever dare say: "Since Christ didn't require the rich young ruler to have no other gods before Jehovah, or to abstain from idolatry or taking the LORD's name in vain, why should the new covenant Christian be bound to such things?"

Does anything more really need to be said here?

.

Yes Barney, Christians should understand and then obey the words of the LORD, and then speak the same things as He has said, Jesus said to take His yoke upon you and learn of Him, as far as myself I have come to some knowledge of this issue truth of this Covenant.