Man, the eternal security / OSAS guys are going to be claiming you are trying to earn your salvation!
How to Test the Spirits?
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Man, the eternal security / OSAS guys are going to be claiming you are trying to earn your salvation!
Should we be concerned with what men may think about us or with what God does think about us? One day at the time, yes, one day at the time.... giving God all of the glory!
I agree!
I've run in to so many OSAS people that think man literally is not supposed to do anything which of course is not scriptural.
Many people like the idea of having received the promise and never having to be concerned again about living just so or better for God.
They want to have their cake [a salvation that cannot be lost]
and eat it too [having fun, whatever that means in all the ways of men now]...
What is it that we have now? Sometimes it seems to me that we are only able to see one step in front of us. Is there not more steps to be taken?
| 1co 13:12 | For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. |
I'd agree that Satan is a deceiver. I'd go back to way way before Eve. He deceived angels in the before this life age. Does God have people deceived, Yes, according to what He wants to achieve. Does God do it personally, directly? Possibly.
Well, the Pentecostalist and those who look only to this have hardly any of the gospel that they give, instead focus on 'speaking' in 'tongues' as truth that they have reached the 'path of God' and teach little else. Now the Pentecostalist and others of the speaking of tongues movement may be good Christian who can believe, but it they are being led astray and given a path to 'unclean spirits' then what..
Too many of them may be doing as you say, but I see generally among Christian groups too many who are focusing on the rewards promised rather than on God Himself. Heaven and ever lasting Life may be rewards to receive but if we put too much emphasis on them, what happens to our relationship with God and His Son? For everyone then...
| Mt 6:33 | But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. |
No, He allows us in free will to choose including that which can deceive, like Eve. Was it God that deceived her or the devil. I think we can see who the deceiver is.........
Yes, again, I agree with you. In relation to Eve, Satan is a deceiver.
God's created spirit beings can and do deceive humans.
1 Kings 22:19-23 19 Micaiah continued, “Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne with all the multitudes of heaven standing around him on his right and on his left. 20 And the Lord said, ‘Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?’
“One suggested this, and another that. 21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the Lord and said, ‘I will entice him.’
22 “‘By what means?’ the Lord asked.
“‘I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,’ he said.
“‘You will succeed in enticing him,’ said the Lord. ‘Go and do it.’
23 “So now the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The Lord has decreed disaster for you.”
As quoted above, God did not deceive but He had His hand in it. He interviewed a number of angelic candidates for the role of deceiver. Eventually one was chosen who had a successful plan that God was happy with.
God said, You will be successful, Go, do it. So God put a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all these prophets.
In revelations we may have a similar situation where God needed someone to do something for Him that was going to cause not just one catastrophe as with Ahab but a series of them.
These were well planned, a systematic destruction of this planet. Over 2 billion people killed in a variety of ways. 4 billion
hectares of land destroyed. 120 million trillion gallons of water contaminated killing all life in it.
The Person Who thought up this plan was....? If you said Satan, you'd be wrong, though it sounds like something he would do. But that's a bit above his pay grade. If you said humans then again you'd be wrong.
Of course only God has the right to make His creation and to destroy it. He has a plan to do exactly this. But He had a need for someone to activate this plan of destruction.
There was no one in heaven who was worthy to unleash this series of events that would cause such devastation. John saw that this position remained vacant and he cried as a result. Until someone was found suitable for this role.
The Lamb of God Who was slain was the Person for the job. Job vacancy filled! What a celebration was seen and heard in heaven at this Person's appointment. Rev 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God
persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
God Almighty has, is and will do as He pleases for His own pleasure and glory.
Then we have Job's story. Satan's attention drawn to Job by God. God knew full well what Satan's response would be. Give me a go at Job and you'll see what he (we) will do against you. God gave him His go ahead.
So then we have the situation with planet earth at its beginning. Did God call planet earth, one of an infinite number of planets, to Satan's attention. To which Satan responds, Give me a go at it and you'll see what it will do against you. Then God gave him the go ahead.
So is this the way God was able to get Adam to eat from the tree He told him not to or he would surely die?
He got Satan to do His work for Him, as He got the Lamb to open the seals to unleash destruction and He got one of His Spirits to deceive a number of prophets.
Again, God Almighty has, is and will do as He pleases for His own pleasure and glory.
He is answerable to no one, nor accountable to anyone as there is none above Him. He is the Sovereign over everything and everyone, even Jesus the Lamb, the King of kings.
For those doing this... it quickly becomes "God, what have YOU done for me lately?" and "What's in it for me?"
In other words rather than their walk being a two way street where we are co-laborers with the Lord... it changes to them thinking the Lord is their personal ATM machine Who spits out blessings upon demand.
I agree with you. The sovereign Creator of Satan made him with multiple roles in mind. One was to be a tool in God's hand to do things for Him.
Satan was created to serve his Creator in heaven.
Satan was created to serve his Creator on earth in the role of adversary.
The end game that is better than it was at the first is that Satan will be reconciled to his Master and Creator to play a greater role than at the first.
His Master will restore him and give him a throne at His left where he plays yet another role for His God, Master and Creator.
Now that's really good news! And what is Satan's response to God's love shown by His mercy and grace? To love his God so so much. Luke 7:47
That's a lie from the pits of hell and authored by satan himself
The devil and all his demons will be tormented in the lake of fire for all eternity as will those who follow him.
News Flash! Jesus Christ is NOT a liar!
Matthew 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
If thy hand offend thee cut it off.
Is Satan God's left hand?
Luk 10:17
And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
Luk 10:18
And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Luk 10:19
Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Luk 10:20
Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
Rev 12:12
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Isa 54:8
In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.
Jer 32:37
Behold, I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely:
Eze 21:31
And I will pour out mine indignation upon thee, I will blow against thee in the fire of my wrath, and deliver thee into the hand of brutish men, and skilful to destroy.
Eze 22:21
Yea, I will gather you, and blow upon you in the fire of my wrath, and ye shall be melted in the midst thereof.
Eze 38:19
For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
Isa 60:10
And the sons of strangers shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee: for in my wrath I smote thee, but in my favour have I had mercy on thee.
Heb 10:30
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
I think a lot of christians believe that God is a pacifist and they can walk all over him because no matter what they do he will just forgive and forget. But the bible doesn't actually say that.
Does God have a dark side?
And is that dark side actually a loving side?
Do you get wrathful with your kids if they do something really bad? And if you do, do you still love them?
2Sa 7:14
I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
Rev 3:19
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
How long is a moment????
Just thinking..
Hugs
Yes, I agree with Jesus. The devil and his angels (God's angels who follow the devil) will go into everlasting fire.
But, there's more, at some stage in eternity the devil and God's angels who followed him into the lake of fire will repent and be forgiven, restored, redeemed and reconciled to their God and Creator.
The fire may be everlasting but those in it will be led out of it by the Devil to return to their Creator.
God's love will move Him to redeem all who repent, the blood of the Lamb will be so effective as to cleanse all sin and rebellion from all within God's creations.
Wow! This is a fantastic hope that we have in our Creators and Their love for Their creations.
Then there is even more. God, while sitting on His throne, reaches behind Himself and slides another throne to His left, prepared for the restored angelic being known as the devil.
What an amazing demonstration of the character of God Who is LOVE. Now that is totally amazing grace at possibly its greatest.
And I say to you, I saw Satan repent from where he was. He was called by his Creator to approach Him Who sat on His throne.
As Satan approached His God, he was offered a throne to his Creator's left.
Er... NO, he is not and there's nothing in scripture showing the Lord said that he was.
He is in opposition to God and will be separated from God for ALL eternity in a place created for him and all his demons, a place where eternal fire is never quenched.
Wow! So you are accusing God of having darkness and evil in Him!
1 John 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
I'm reading this exchange between Jesus and the "son's of thunders' mother, concerning who sits where.
And there so many levels to this..
Mat 20:20
Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him.
Mat 20:21
And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.
Mat 20:22
But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
Mat 20:23
And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
Mat 20:24
And when the ten heard it, they were moved with indignation against the two brethren.
Reminds me of Joseph and Benjamin, and how the other ten brothers were jealous. They sold Joseph into slavery, and they brought the youngest son to Egypt to save themselves.
Gen 43:7
And they said, The man asked us straitly of our state, and of our kindred, saying, Is your father yet alive? have ye another brother? and we told him according to the tenor of these words: could we certainly know that he would say, Bring your brother down?
Reminds me of the prodigal son.
Luk 15:29
And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
Luk 15:30
But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
Luk 15:31
And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
Luk 15:32
It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
Then there is the day the Sons of God came before him, and Satan too.
Cain and Abel, Esau and Jacob, Ishmael and Isaac, Brothers.
Pharoah and Moses, Saul and David, John and Jesus, Peter and Paul. Authorities.
Always a dark before the light, Doubt and Faith. Greater and Lesser.
He must increase but I must decrease.
Are there not 12 hours in a day? Watchman, what of the night, Watchman what of the night?
Gen 8:22
While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
Gal 4:22
For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Mat 21:28
But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
Mat 21:29
He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
Mat 21:30
And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
Mat 21:31
Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
Mat 21:32
For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.
Jhn 14:30
Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
Jhn 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
Jhn 16:11
Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Eph 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
2Co 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Col 1:13
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Rev 20:2
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:7
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
2Co 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
1Pe 2:22
Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Jo 3:5
And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jo 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
I've heard a lot of theories about Satan and Jesus being brothers. There is immutable evidence that God is a God of duality.
Good/Evil, Night/Day, etc.
We also see that it is the younger that is always elevated to a higher state than the elder.
Then you have the old man vs. the new man. It's the same man but has been translated to a higher state.
The earth and the material world around us is an upside down view of Heaven. Or like a reflection in a mirror.
The image you see in the mirror isn't the real thing, it's just the image of the true.
God told Moses to build a tabernacle according to what God showed him in heaven.
Exo 25:9
According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.
That tabernacle was only an image, it was created to fade away.
2Pe 1:14
Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.
Jesus said something interesting here:
Jhn 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
ascended up, came down, is in.
Son of man/Son of God.
Jhn 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Mal 2:10
Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?
I'm writing a book..
continued..
LOL
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