Absolutely, if Satan deceived someone it is up to God's whether He exposes that deception so that I can respond to it. If God doesn't then I remain deceived.
If God wants to deceive someone so they believe lies then that's up to Him also.
How to Test the Spirits?
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If God wants to deceive someone so they believe lies then that's up to Him also.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
This thread has gone down a lot of different paths LOL
I would say, are they speaking for God's glory or their own?
Are their "fruits" sincere?
Ye shall know them by their fruit.
I don't know if you can know right off, I think you have to get to know the character of the person.
Over time their true fruits or works begin to show.
Are they gentle, humble, caring or are they angry, argumentative, hateful, short tempered.
I watch this series called the Chosen on Angel Studios on the internet.
I've watched this series 6 times so far. The actor who plays Jesus is what I find to be a good example of what I read in the bible.
The more I read about Jesus and the more I watch this series, the more I want to become like his character.
I want to be more christ-like, more gentle, more kind, more humble. Helpful, giving, serving.
And over the years I seen a change in my own character. I'm not the same person I was in my 20's or 30's.
It's a growing process. A maturity that doesn't come from aging but a desire to be what Christ wants me to be.
So how do you test that spirit, not only of others but of self.
You have Jesus as your example and test to see if you have measured up in any way to that standard.
Because without His spirit leading you, I don't believe it is possible to so on ones own.
People are naturally hmm... not an example of Jesus.
Not everyone has attained that maturity. But there should be some fruit in others you can see that they are heading on the right path.
As for prophets or false prophets.. If what they say doesn't align with the spirit of the Lord and what he has said in his word, then I wouldn't listen.
Everything we need to know has already been recorded for our benefit.
We just need to study and apply it. Mostly when it comes to fruits, we should be checking our own before judging others.
Curious how many more roads this thread is going to go down lol
Lot of mixed fruit in this thread LOL
Hugs
How do you come to that conclusion? Is it because I observe that they share and exercise some of the same abilities? In fact as I have just done some research from the shorter version of the bible, just to clarify, the one with 66 books, and it was very enlightening. It appeared that they have more in common than I first thought. God and Satan did a lot together, sometimes for a common cause.
* God led Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted by Satan. Matt 4;1-11
* Blinds people's eyes from seeing the truth Romans 11:8; 2 Cor 4:4
* Sends deception, delusions and lies 2 Thes 2:11; 1 Kings 22:19-23; 1 Tim 4:1&2; Rev 12:9; Jn 8:44
* Kills Josh 10:11; Rev 16:21
* Hates Mal 1:3; Rom 9:13
* Sifts Lk 22:31; Job (his family and belongings)
* Destroys Gen 6-9 Rev. 5:1, 9&10 Rev 8:1; Ch 9:1,15,18
I think you get the picture. The great thing is that the Creators do not require anyone to justify Them or acquit Them of any wrong doing as They are the highest authority. They therefore can do as They please, for it is all about Their pleasure.
Father gives Jesus a kingdom and Jesus gives Father a kingdom and together They rule over a joint kingdom for each other’s pleasure. Now that's good news.
Thanks for sharing what the Spirit has been doing in your life. He is amazing in who he makes us into. More like Himself every day.
It's hard to get to know another person over the internet. It can be a challenge to achieve this in person. Maybe that's why Jesus told that parable of the wheat and the tares. Even the angels could get it wrong and falsely judge or determine who's who.
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Ziggy
Well-Known Member
I been down this road a few times. What I find is, God doesn't do anything from a mischevious heart.
Nothing that he does is meant to harm us, but to prevent us from harming eachother.
Lessons taught, yet unlearned. Most of these we bring upon ourselves and attribute them to God because no one ever wants to point the finger at that themselves.
The Spirit led Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted by Satan.
God sent Jesus into the world to destroy sin and death.
There is a battle that must be faught and one must be sent. And God chose Jesus to overcome Satan because he knew he could.
Love will always overcome Hate. Life overcomes death.
Blinds peoples eyes from seeing the truth.
The truth is evident in all his creation. We simply need to ask and seek and knock. There needs to be a willingness to understand.
A willingness to have faith.
Heb 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Rom 11:8
(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear
unto this day.But there is a purpose for everything God does.
Rom 11:11
I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Rom 11:22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Sends deceptions, delusions, and lies.
Well, God doesn't lie. I believe God allows us to decieve ourselves with our own delusions.
2Th 2:10
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Everything always leads back to the garden.
God told Adam the truth. You eat the fruit of this tree and you will die. They listened to the delusion of a snake that told them they could be as god and they would not die. They chose themselves over God to rule themselves.
And they were damned, they were cursed, and death was given dominion over them, therefore their unrighteousness led them to perish.
I don't believe in talking snakes. Something deeper going on in that story. I do believe it may have been a false prophet.
Perhaps even the spirit of Jezebel herself. Nevertheless, they chose the deception, the lie, and the delusion which they had chosen for themselves.
Rev 16:21
And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
In Egypt, Pharaoh had enslaved God's people for 400 years. He sent Moses to tell Pharoah it's time to let them go.
Pharoah wouldn't listen.
Exo 9:25
And the hail smote throughout all the land of Egypt all that was in the field, both man and beast; and the hail smote every herb of the field, and brake every tree of the field.
Pharoah repented and asked Moses to have God stop the hail. And God did. But..
Exo 9:34
And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants.
This is called judgment. And God is a God of judgment and mercy. If there were no punishment, then there would only be crime left to it's own end. ( I believe we may see this before this age is over, total lawlessness)
Anywho, my point is that God doesn't do things or say things for an unrighteous cause. There is always a purpose or an end game that is better than as it was at the first.
Consider Job. He believed he was the epitomy of righteousness. What he lacked was humbleness.
God humbled Job to show him that he needed God. And the end of Job was better than at the first.
Satan is a tool God uses to test us. To prove us. To show us that without him we are nothing but chaff in the wind.
Satan is a spirit of adversity, rebellion, jealousy, greed, anger, wrath....
it is everything that is opposite of God's love.
It is a necessary evil to divide the light from the dark. The wheat from the chaff. The children of the day from the children of the night.
1Th 5:1
But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4
But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5
Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6
Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7
For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
1Th 5:8
But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Th 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10
Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
1Th 5:11
Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
Which leads right back to:
2Th 2:10
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Just my thoughts.
Hugs
True Prophecy / False Prophecy
The receiving of a prophecy is by nature a supernatural experience. But a supernatural experience in itself does not mean it is of God. The Buddhists have their prophets who receive prophecies that encourage the path to the Buddhist enlightenment. The Hindus have their prophets that provide the encouragement for the development of ones Karma and soul. The Muslims have their prophets that encourage the Jehad and demolition of the infidels. The witches and wiccans have their prophets that provide access to their spirit guides. The pagans have their high priests and prophets that commune and pass on instructions from their respective god pantheons. Be it Zeus or Jupiter or Thor etc. Then you just have the spirit mediums and fortunetellers that do the same thing with familiar spirits that pose as departed loved ones or whatever. None of the above is inspired by the Holy Spirit , but is the demonic engaged in their normal business.
However when it comes to Christianity or Judaism things get a little more complicated. The demonic entities are no longer acting in defence and encouragement of a particular worldly faith but are in an attack stance so as to corrupt and subvert a covenant faith in such a way as to produce an alternative to the true that can be used to deceive the saints and draw them into an alternative faith that looks like the biblically inspired covenant faith but is promoting a different God and a different Jesus. Yes it uses all the right terminology and is steeped in hyper religiosity but does not lead into a real salvation or a real reconciliation with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
The writers of the New Testament had already come into contact with this deception and they gave a name to it, The Spirit of the Antichrist.
Basically the same deceiving demons that had come against the Old Covenant and corrupted Judaism and had gained control over the pharisees, where now starting to do the same thing with the way or the early church comprising Christianity of the New Covenant. Just as the priest of the second temple had been so corrupted in their understanding and practices, to the point where Jesus referred to them as complete hypocrites, so the demons were trying to do the same thing with the early church and corrupt their doctrine as well.
Well this of course raises the question of what is the difference between the true prophecy and the false prophecy if both are supernatural in origin. Well the answer lies in who it is that is giving the prophetic word. From the Christian perspective the True prophecy comes from the kingdom of God and the false comes from the kingdom of Satan. Demons are quite happy to be very religious and are in fact the deities behind all the worlds Pagan and other alternative religions. But there remains only one real God and that is the one that established the covenant faiths as found in the scriptures as in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He has sent his only Begotten Son Jesus to redeem us at Calvary and set him up as his King over all of the creation.
So the next question is just how do we establish that the prophecies we are receiving are actually coming from the Kingdom of God and not an alternative source. The writers of the New Testament faced this question as well and left us instructions on how to do this. The first is to test the spirit that is giving the prophecy directly as in when the spirit starts to deliver the prophecy, ask the spirit what their confession of faith is. And the other is to judge the fruits produced or intended to be produced by that prophecy as compared to the scriptures themselves. Are they in line with the Great Commission given to the Saints to accomplish while awaiting our Lord Jesus return.
The receiving of a prophecy is by nature a supernatural experience. But a supernatural experience in itself does not mean it is of God. The Buddhists have their prophets who receive prophecies that encourage the path to the Buddhist enlightenment. The Hindus have their prophets that provide the encouragement for the development of ones Karma and soul. The Muslims have their prophets that encourage the Jehad and demolition of the infidels. The witches and wiccans have their prophets that provide access to their spirit guides. The pagans have their high priests and prophets that commune and pass on instructions from their respective god pantheons. Be it Zeus or Jupiter or Thor etc. Then you just have the spirit mediums and fortunetellers that do the same thing with familiar spirits that pose as departed loved ones or whatever. None of the above is inspired by the Holy Spirit , but is the demonic engaged in their normal business.
However when it comes to Christianity or Judaism things get a little more complicated. The demonic entities are no longer acting in defence and encouragement of a particular worldly faith but are in an attack stance so as to corrupt and subvert a covenant faith in such a way as to produce an alternative to the true that can be used to deceive the saints and draw them into an alternative faith that looks like the biblically inspired covenant faith but is promoting a different God and a different Jesus. Yes it uses all the right terminology and is steeped in hyper religiosity but does not lead into a real salvation or a real reconciliation with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
The writers of the New Testament had already come into contact with this deception and they gave a name to it, The Spirit of the Antichrist.
Basically the same deceiving demons that had come against the Old Covenant and corrupted Judaism and had gained control over the pharisees, where now starting to do the same thing with the way or the early church comprising Christianity of the New Covenant. Just as the priest of the second temple had been so corrupted in their understanding and practices, to the point where Jesus referred to them as complete hypocrites, so the demons were trying to do the same thing with the early church and corrupt their doctrine as well.
Well this of course raises the question of what is the difference between the true prophecy and the false prophecy if both are supernatural in origin. Well the answer lies in who it is that is giving the prophetic word. From the Christian perspective the True prophecy comes from the kingdom of God and the false comes from the kingdom of Satan. Demons are quite happy to be very religious and are in fact the deities behind all the worlds Pagan and other alternative religions. But there remains only one real God and that is the one that established the covenant faiths as found in the scriptures as in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He has sent his only Begotten Son Jesus to redeem us at Calvary and set him up as his King over all of the creation.
So the next question is just how do we establish that the prophecies we are receiving are actually coming from the Kingdom of God and not an alternative source. The writers of the New Testament faced this question as well and left us instructions on how to do this. The first is to test the spirit that is giving the prophecy directly as in when the spirit starts to deliver the prophecy, ask the spirit what their confession of faith is. And the other is to judge the fruits produced or intended to be produced by that prophecy as compared to the scriptures themselves. Are they in line with the Great Commission given to the Saints to accomplish while awaiting our Lord Jesus return.
Now lets look at the Mechanics behind that instruction. A lot of saints disregard this because they cannot see how asking a deceiving spirit to confess that Jesus has come in the flesh is going to force them to reveal themselves. But the process involved is far simpler than it would appear and this is not the only question available either.
A false spirit of prophecy is here to deliver a deception. When you are asking these questions you are placing them in a position where they are being required to affirm and confirm already established biblical truths, the very ones they are required to draw us away from. By asking these questions we catch them between a rock and a hard place as they cannot confirm the truths associated with Christ with out compromising the deceptions they were sent to introduce to us.
Has Jesus Come in the flesh
Does Jesus now sit at the right hand of God on high.
Is God the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.
Is Jesus king of Kings and Lord of Lords
Is Jesus the lamb that takes away the sins of the world.
Is salvation to be found only in the name of Jesus who shed his blood for us and is now seated at the right hand of God.
Is Jesus the Christ
The list can be added to yourselves. All you need is known biblical truths that has to be confirmed as true and that can only be affirmed by the spirit that comes from Gods throne of grace. The scriptures instruct us to do this, If the prophetic spirit is from God it will comply very readily. If it is not it will resist in some way or pull away. From experience I have found that quite often when a deceiving spirit is tested in this way it just swears at you or tries to intimidate you.
The same principle can be applied to people as well
You simply apply the same list of Biblical truths and compare what a false Apostle is teaching or enforcing to what the bible says. I know quite a few that will not affirm that simple list I put together and they will be the first to teach that the spirit of prophecy is not to be tested this way even though the instruction in the scriptures is perfectly clear. And when you go look at their fruit you can see it produces bitter results. A very obvious modern example is the oneness doctrine, How can Jesus be seated at the right hand of God if he is God. Right off the batt you see who has drifted off into the false. And as expected they will be the very ones that discourage the testing of the spirit of prophecy with excuses like it is disrespectful etc. Then it is the same group that will promptly start giving out prophecies of the different incarnations of God such as Melchisedec which is so obviously wrong but it shows which spirit of prophecy they are listening to. The false. And through religiosity they will bully whom they can into following them. Rotten fruit!
If there is one thing the church really needs now it is the true prophecies from Gods thrown of Grace being delivered to the saints, not the false. We have been instructed how to test so why are we not doing it. Is it any wonder there is such a falling away and so much Cynicism on display in the body.
A false spirit of prophecy is here to deliver a deception. When you are asking these questions you are placing them in a position where they are being required to affirm and confirm already established biblical truths, the very ones they are required to draw us away from. By asking these questions we catch them between a rock and a hard place as they cannot confirm the truths associated with Christ with out compromising the deceptions they were sent to introduce to us.
Has Jesus Come in the flesh
Does Jesus now sit at the right hand of God on high.
Is God the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.
Is Jesus king of Kings and Lord of Lords
Is Jesus the lamb that takes away the sins of the world.
Is salvation to be found only in the name of Jesus who shed his blood for us and is now seated at the right hand of God.
Is Jesus the Christ
The list can be added to yourselves. All you need is known biblical truths that has to be confirmed as true and that can only be affirmed by the spirit that comes from Gods throne of grace. The scriptures instruct us to do this, If the prophetic spirit is from God it will comply very readily. If it is not it will resist in some way or pull away. From experience I have found that quite often when a deceiving spirit is tested in this way it just swears at you or tries to intimidate you.
The same principle can be applied to people as well
You simply apply the same list of Biblical truths and compare what a false Apostle is teaching or enforcing to what the bible says. I know quite a few that will not affirm that simple list I put together and they will be the first to teach that the spirit of prophecy is not to be tested this way even though the instruction in the scriptures is perfectly clear. And when you go look at their fruit you can see it produces bitter results. A very obvious modern example is the oneness doctrine, How can Jesus be seated at the right hand of God if he is God. Right off the batt you see who has drifted off into the false. And as expected they will be the very ones that discourage the testing of the spirit of prophecy with excuses like it is disrespectful etc. Then it is the same group that will promptly start giving out prophecies of the different incarnations of God such as Melchisedec which is so obviously wrong but it shows which spirit of prophecy they are listening to. The false. And through religiosity they will bully whom they can into following them. Rotten fruit!
If there is one thing the church really needs now it is the true prophecies from Gods thrown of Grace being delivered to the saints, not the false. We have been instructed how to test so why are we not doing it. Is it any wonder there is such a falling away and so much Cynicism on display in the body.
Exactly. Not to focus on the false prophets and false prophesy but true prophecy that is from Christ for His body, to bring it to maturity. Most followers of Jesus know there will be the tares among the wheat but why not promote the body members who are exercising their Spirit given roles and functions in this world. The enemy is probably fairly happy when we get caught up in his achievements, distracting those of us who identify as being the followers of Jesus. We know as a fact that Jesus' sheep hear His voice and won't listen to a stranger. In fact they will run away from them. Thus says the Lord, Jesus.
Agreed. Thanks for highlighting that. He is a fantastic God Who created His creations with good intent and where the end justifies the means. That is why I am very excited knowing the truth that God will end up reconciling all, in all His creations, to Himself so that he will generate glory and pleasure from them for ever and ever and ever.
Yes, He will be able to sit back on His throne and EVERYWHERE His eyes look, what He sees will imbue pleasure. What a glorious hope and immeasurable confidence we have in such a Supreme Benevolent Sovereign Creator.
But Christ has better in store for His body, the church. He has appointed prophets to prophesy for the building up of the church to bring it to maturity.
Christ's Spirit is at work redeeming people from every tongue tribe people and nation to rule with Christ in His kingdom. What a privilege we have to participate in what He is doing, not the devil or anyone else.
The Great Shepherd has the task of looking after His sheep. We don't have to fear as He is with us through His wonderful Spirit and we are with Him. Thankfully we are not ultimately responsible for the wellbeing of the bride God the Father is preparing for His Son.
For us it is much easier, the yoke is, and light, the burden is. In all things give thanks for this is the will of God for us who are in Christ, in His flock.
Thats the thing, if you look at these christians that speak/sing in tongues, its a end all be all. They stop there and thats there salvation, 'I spoke in it', 'I sang in it' and thus all they need to do to 'prove' they have reach what God intended and asks, not good..
I gave you the colloquial explanation of casting out demons ala "plead the blood of Jesus Christ on them." The rest is merely word games and other variations of powerlessness. Again, I refer to 1 John 4.
The authority to cast out unclean spirits does not rest in a name, a word or a method; it rests in the finished bloodwork of Jesus, of which demons tremble. We should be as aware...
The authority to cast out unclean spirits does not rest in a name, a word or a method; it rests in the finished bloodwork of Jesus, of which demons tremble. We should be as aware...
Yeah, there's the bugaboo. The so-called churches may have a form of godliness, but they deny its power (from such turn away).
Indeed, one must test ("try") 'em all if one expects success. I have a deliverance ministry that never ceases to amaze. Ripping unclean spirits off others is not fun and games.
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That's funny... Jesus said believers would cast out devils in HIS Name (Mark 16:17-18), and the Word of the Lord said every knee should bow to the Name of Jesus (Philippians 2:10).
Obviously there is POWER in that Name if those speaking it believe what they say will come to pass (Mark 11:23) when speaking God's Word as per His instructions.
Without these things the devil is just going to laugh because he knows he won't have to go anywhere.
And to "plead" means to beg so are you begging God to get the devil off of you... or, are you begging the devil to leave you alone?
What scripture references can you provide that instructs us to beg and to whom are we begging?
Your so called "reproof" was faulty, ineffective, and lacked biblical accuracy
So, keep on begging the devil to leave you alone bubba!
And BTW, who are all these people you are quoting? Their names don't show up in your posts.
It's useless to not have the names connected to the people you are quoting as others trying to follow the convo would have to read all the back posts to try and see who you are replying to.
Have you not yet learned how to navigate the board? Maybe you should get a tutor for the board AND the Bible!
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Basically, every truly born again believer of water and of the Holy Spirit, should be disciple in the All Scripture = Holy Bible. (2Timothy3:16&17)
Especially, become a 'doer' and a 'abider' in the word/teaching of Lord Jesus Christ in the New Testament. Which, He has given and made as the New Covenant with His church/bride. (2John1:9-11)
Therefore, any one who comes to them, even a pastor, with teachings or prophesying testament that are not tangible with the written Scripture testaments, are heretics and accursed.
Jesus' parable about the tree and fruits, ends by Himself saying to us church today, "You will know them by their fruits."
'We are of GOD: he that knoweth GOD heareth us; he that is not of GOD heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.' (1John4:6)
So we all have to agree with you??? Otherwise we are not of God???
I hear various groups actually using this scripture to claim that
Like that doctrox guy's group that believes Christians have to beg the devil to leave is alone!
God doesnt deceived anyone, thats Satan that does that all the way to the Garden with Eve.
You should not believe or presumt that we have all stopped. The climb and the growth continues in some of us, really... The only stopping place is to be when we have reached the end of our course. I still live and surrender and strive. I still ask, seek and knock. My end is not yet.
Give God the glory!
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