Faith: True and False
- Thread starter GracePeace
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The intent was to discuss the fact that the idea that faith can be valid faith or invalid faith (true or false)--which, to me, had never been proven Scripturally, but seemed to merely have been baselessly asserted--actually has Scriptural bases.
They "believed"... yet, they "believed" in an invalid way... lending itself to the doctrine that "they went out to prove they were never of us".
They could not "abide" Christ's Word. Therefore, they didn't really believe in the actual Christ--they were titillated that this could be the one they had waited for, that would do the things they had expected, carnal opinions and hopes about what Messiah would be (eg, "Our fathers ate manna... so, if you want to do a sign for us to believe in, do you think you're gonna make something more bread soon?")--they did "believe", but, since they couldn't endure Christ's Words, they weren't "truly" disciples.
Christ said to them, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
So, they weren't "truly" disciples.
I'm kind of "playing devil's advocate" here.
These could serve as examples of those who "went out from among us to prove the were never of us"--who "believed", but not really...
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OK. I see it in several places myself. There is true faith, which is saving faith, and there is that which is called faith, or believing, but is not salvific.
As you've shown in John's Gospel. As James shows in his letter, to which you've pointed. As John shows in his first letter, they went out from us because they were not of us.
The person who identifies as Christian, goes to church, but has not been regenerated.
Much love!
Behold
Well-Known Member
DEMAS... is the exception.
He is a born again believer who left the ministry, because he wanted to go back and enjoy the "worldly life" that he had before he became Paul's born again convert.
And, in his day... at that time.... being a CHRISTian, could get you KILLED, by 20 different methods, including being sawn in half..
Followers of ISLAM will do that to you today, so, best to avoid those devil's.
Timothy, another of Paul's converts, had to drink some wine.....and maybe this is due to the STRESS that the Christian's were under at that time, regarding how dangerous it was to be KNOWN to be a born again follower of Messiah.
1. As mentioned in my preface, I don't take James 2 as referring to true and false faith.
2. I see 1 Jn 2 as having other potential interpretations--therefore (and bc I hadn't seen "false faith" proven as even existing through Scripture), in times past, I was hesitant to interpret it in that way.
3. It's one thing to say "Yeah, there are people who go to Church, but aren't really regenerate--they're the ones we're talking about when we say there is such a thing as a false faith," but, because anyone can invent any doctrine they want, it's a whole nother thing to actually prove that there is a category of invalid faith in Scripture.
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No, I'm saying that this invalid faith seems not to result in God placing one into Christ where the eternal life is.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Here is the end result of "false faith"
A.) "Depart from me, i never knew you".... Jesus said to DISCIPLES who had false faith., and these people were casting out devils "in Jesus's name".
So.....How does a parable define "false faith".??
= Matthew 13:20-22.
This is hearing and accepting..... and that is not same as : "faith that is counted as (Christ's) righteousness = by God".
A way to understand what that means, or how to understand what it means = to accept that "Jesus saves".... but not really believe it, tho the pretense is there.....
Notice this partial verse that explains false faith.... " To come to the KNOWLEDGE of the Truth".......
See that? That is a room full of unbelievers, and im preaching "The Cross"..., and everyone says...."Yes i believe it"...
And some mean.....>"Yes, i have made the intellectual ascent to the Knowledge, regarding what you have taught as being TRUE"...
And then you have the REAL Believer in the room, who did this...>"faith comes by HEARING" = The Gospel.. and that person went from.......
""" HEAD Knowledge of the Truth".... all the way into FAITH in their Heart that God accepted to then wash their sin away in the Blood of Jesus and then give them the New Birth of their spirit.
I was just surprised that true and false faith actually existed in Scripture at all.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Satan's ministers pretend to have real faith., tho some are actually born again.
They teach "righteousness", but not based on the Cross or the Grace of God.
If you read what Episkopos or Randy Kluth teach, or 1stcentruyLady... then you find always.."what you must DO, to be and STAY saved".
So, that is Legalism, as legalism always tries to add YOUR SELF EFFORT to the Cross of Christ as Salvation.
Legalism OFFENDS the Cross of Christ and Insults the Grace of God.
They teach """"""keep this, and do that, and strive, and endure to the end, and as long as you dont lose your faith, you might just claw your way into heaven, if you do all that until the very second you die"""""""".
See all that?
That is SELF EFFORT... pretending to be Faith in Jesus., and its not.. Its faith in.. :SELF
I meant there seems to be a continuity between "If you remain in My Word, you will prove you are truly My disciples", and this idea of "invalid/false belief", and "they went out from among us to prove they were never of us".
Behold
Well-Known Member
Being a "disciple" is not the same as being Born again.
You can be a Disciple and not be a Christian.
However, you can't be born again, and not be a Christian.
See, being Born again, is the only real proof you are a Son/Daughter of God.
Reader.. GOD is not looking for Disciples...>He's looking for BELIEVERS.
Be sure you understand that reality/distinction.
Disciples can go to Hell.
Real Born again = Believers..... never will.
OK, we're on the same page with this.
There are many who claim to follow Jesus, but have not believed, and received, and have not been reborn. And when push comes to shove, they leave.
These are the seed that fell in the rocky soil. They received with joy, but in times of persecution, they fall away, because there was no root.
Those who have been truly born again have a true faith, that will endure.
Much love!
I wouldn't necessarily go that far just yet..
because they received the Word into their hearts, which is, technically speaking, faith...
We seem to be using "faith" to describe a couple of different things.
The faith I speak of is this faith:
John 1:10-13 KJV
10) He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11) He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Believe . . . receive . . . be born of God . . . born again.
Much love!
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