Who did God Predestinate?

[Robert Pate]

We see the words "Predestinate" in the Bible, Romans 8:29-30. Ephesians 1:5, Ephesians 1:11. But it does not say who was predestinated. All that is says is "us" or "We". Who is the "us" and the "we?" Along comes John Calvin and says the "Us" and the "We" are people that believe in his doctrine of "Calvinism". So, we are led to believe that John Calvin is some sort of a prophet with a new doctrine.

There is nothing in the Old Testament about anyone being predestinated to heaven or to hell. As a matter of fact the word "Predestinate" only appears in the New Testament four times. Mr. Calvin apparently believed that is enough to launch his newfound doctrine. Words like "Faith and "Believe" count for nothing. All that matters is predestination. Throughout the Bible we are warned of men that would pervert the truth of the Gospel.

Paul, who was a chosen apostle of Jesus Christ, said, "But though we or an angel from heaven, preach any other Gospel unto you than that which we have preached, let him be accursed" Galatians 1:8. There is nothing in John Calvins doctrine about Christ and his Gospel, the whole emphasis is about being predestinated, which has nothing to do with the Gospel and appears to be a false Gospel.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

We see the words "Predestinate" in the Bible, Romans 8:29-30. Ephesians 1:5, Ephesians 1:11. But it does not say who was predestinated. All that is says is "us" or "We". Who is the "us" and the "we?" Along comes John Calvin and says the "Us" and the "We" are people that believe in his doctrine of "Calvinism". So, we are led to believe that John Calvin is some sort of a prophet with a new doctrine.

There is nothing in the Old Testament about anyone being predestinated to heaven or to hell. As a matter of fact the word "Predestinate" only appears in the New Testament four times. Mr. Calvin apparently believed that is enough to launch his newfound doctrine. Words like "Faith and "Believe" count for nothing. All that matters is predestination. Throughout the Bible we are warned of men that would pervert the truth of the Gospel.

Paul, who was a chosen apostle of Jesus Christ, said, "But though we or an angel from heaven, preach any other Gospel unto you than that which we have preached, let him be accursed" Galatians 1:8. There is nothing in John Calvins doctrine about Christ and his Gospel, the whole emphasis is about being predestinated, which has nothing to do with the Gospel and appears to be a false Gospel.

It is obvious you are unschooled in what Calvin taught and in the Scriptures as well. We and us are people, not things or characteristics. Basic primary English can teach you this.

As to whom god elects and draws to Jesus (see it is only god that can draw us to Jesus) Romans makes that clear:

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?


The who is Gods business not ours. Our job is to go and sow the seeds of the gospel to call in the lost sheep and harvest the wheat into the masters barns!

Nowhere does it say we are goats who turn to sheep or we are weeds that transform to wheat.

 

[Robert Pate]

It is obvious you are unschooled in what Calvin taught and in the Scriptures as well. We and us are people, not things or characteristics. Basic primary English can teach you this.

As to whom god elects and draws to Jesus (see it is only god that can draw us to Jesus) Romans makes that clear:

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?


The who is Gods business not ours. Our job is to go and sow the seeds of the gospel to call in the lost sheep and harvest the wheat into the masters barns!

Nowhere does it say we are goats who turn to sheep or we are weeds that transform to wheat.

The "What if" scripture is not what God does. It says "What if" not what God does. I have been studying the historical Gospel of Jesus Christ for over 50 years. 20 of the 50 years I was fortunate enough to read the writings of some of the most prominent Christian scholars of our time through a theological magazine called "Verdict".

The God that you believe in is not the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible is kind, merciful, long suffering towards us and is not willing that any should perish. You do not know this God, if you did, you would not believe in a God that is the opposite of the God of the Bible.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

We see the words "Predestinate" in the Bible, Romans 8:29-30. Ephesians 1:5, Ephesians 1:11. But it does not say who was predestinated. All that is says is "us" or "We". Who is the "us" and the "we?" Along comes John Calvin and says the "Us" and the "We" are people that believe in his doctrine of "Calvinism". So, we are led to believe that John Calvin is some sort of a prophet with a new doctrine.

There is nothing in the Old Testament about anyone being predestinated to heaven or to hell. As a matter of fact the word "Predestinate" only appears in the New Testament four times. Mr. Calvin apparently believed that is enough to launch his newfound doctrine. Words like "Faith and "Believe" count for nothing. All that matters is predestination. Throughout the Bible we are warned of men that would pervert the truth of the Gospel.

Paul, who was a chosen apostle of Jesus Christ, said, "But though we or an angel from heaven, preach any other Gospel unto you than that which we have preached, let him be accursed" Galatians 1:8. There is nothing in John Calvins doctrine about Christ and his Gospel, the whole emphasis is about being predestinated, which has nothing to do with the Gospel and appears to be a false Gospel.

If you read Eph. 1:1-12 carefully, Paul is giving his credentials as an apostle saying "we who first believed," verse 12. Starting in verse 13 does Paul include the Ephesians, but nothing about them being predestinated like the chosen apostles.

In John 17 you see in Jesus' prayer for the apostles He states frequently those God GAVE to Jesus. Gave or Given are the key words to indicate only the apostles, even Judas. Knowing this about John, you can identify in John 10 that it is the apostles that "29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

Only those who chose truth can accept this truth.

 

[Robert Pate]

If you read Eph. 1:1-12 carefully, Paul is giving his credentials as an apostle saying "we who first believed," verse 12. Starting in verse 13 does Paul include the Ephesians, but nothing about them being predestinated like the chosen apostles.

In John 17 you see in Jesus' prayer for the apostles He states frequently those God GAVE to Jesus. Gave or Given are the key words to indicate only the apostles, even Judas. Knowing this about John, you can identify in John 10 that it is the apostles that "29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

Only those who chose truth can accept this truth.

Paul and all of the other apostles were chosen by Christ for a purpose. The purpose was to take the Gospel to the world. They all died violent deaths for the sake of the Gospel. Except for John, we don't know how he died.

You might say that they were predestinated to be ministers of the Gospel.

God or Jesus's does not predestinate anyone without a purpose. In this case it was the furtherance of the Gospel.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Paul and all of the other apostles were chosen by Christ for a purpose. The purpose was to take the Gospel to the world. They all died violent deaths for the sake of the Gospel. Except for John, we don't know how he died.

You might say that they were predestinated to be ministers of the Gospel.

God or Jesus's does not predestinate anyone without a purpose. In this case it was the furtherance of the Gospel.

Yes, that is what I teach. Ephesians 4 shows the offices that Jesus gives to the church, so as you agree, they were predestined before the foundation of the earth. Agree?

 

[Robert Pate]

Yes, that is what I teach. Ephesians 4 shows the offices that Jesus gives to the church, so as you agree, they were predestined before the foundation of the earth. Agree?

The Bible does not say that the apostles were predestinated to be the apostles before the foundation of the world. As a matter of fact, the encounter that Jesus had with the apostles was very random.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The Bible does not say that the apostles were predestinated to be the apostles before the foundation of the world. As a matter of fact, the encounter that Jesus had with the apostles was very random.

God who knows who He is giving to His Son knew the apostles before the foundation of the world. That is what Paul is saying about those predestined in Ephesians 1 were the apostles. All predestination goes back to before the foundation of the world.

 

[Robert Pate]

God who knows who He is giving to His Son knew the apostles before the foundation of the world. That is what Paul is saying about those predestined in Ephesians 1 were the apostles. All predestination goes back to before the foundation of the world.

You must be drinking some of the twisted tea. There is no scripture anywhere in the Bible that says God has predestinated anyone to heaven or to hell. The only one that was predestinated was Jesus Christ. God predestinated Jesus to be the savior of the world.

The reason that this is true is because God is no respecter of anyone's person, Acts 10:34.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Who did God Predestinate?

All that He knew was going to be born.., He had fore knowledge of all people and it IS His will that all people be saved. - God did predestinate each person He created to be conformed to the image of his Son (see Romans 8:29,30)

The Father sovereignly decided to make man in His own Image which is why all men have free will. He said in His Word than we are predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ (Romans 8:29), and we are to be followers of God as dear children (Ephesians 5:1)

God's Word says man is without excuse (Romans 1:20), the grace that brings salvation has come upon all men (Titus 2:11-13)

God's Word says it's not God's will that any perish and He wants all to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9), and He has commanded men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30), and has given every man faith (Romans 12:3)

Jesus said if He be lifted up He would draw all men until Himself (John 12:32), and Jesus has tasted of death for every man (Hebrews 2:9)

In light of all these scriptures, we can say for sure that limited atonement taught by John Calvin is false doctrine and is in opposition to what God says.

Limited Atonement is FALSE

Romans 8:29,30
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Ephesians 5:1
Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children

Romans 1:19-21
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

There is no scripture anywhere in the Bible that says God has predestinated anyone to heaven or to hell.

That depends. All the apostles were predestinated to be apostles. Jesus said he didn't lose any of them, except Judas that Scripture could be fulfilled. Why did you misquote me? I said nothing about salvation. That is Calvinism. What I claimed is the interpretation of Ephesians 1:1-12 The apostles were predistinated. Period.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Romans 8:33
Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.


1 Corinthians 2:14
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Acts 16:14
One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul.

 

[Robert Pate]

God only justifies those that hear and believes his Gospel. In the Gospel we are complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

 

[BlessedPeace]

God only justifies those that hear and believes his Gospel. In the Gospel we are complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

And only those natural minds that are changed by his Holy Spirit can understand the Gospel,the things of God.
1 Corinthians 2:14.

Which afterwards coincides with Jesus statement in John 6:44.
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

 

[quietthinker]

Who did God Predestinate?​

In Jesus the whole human race is predestined. That is the Good News. This message goes to all the World. Who will be saved at the end of the day? .....all who love the principles God operates by; they believe in him. They trust him as a drowning man needs to trust his rescuer. If he has 'better' ideas, he will drown.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Who did God Predestinate?​

In Jesus the whole human race is predestined. That is the Good News. This message goes to all the World. Who will be saved at the end of the day? .....all who love the principles God operates by; they believe in him. They trust him as a drowning man needs to trust his rescuer. If he has 'better' ideas, he will drown.

They shall drown in a lake of fire. God was very clear in Jesus.


The scriptures are very clear that predetermination is God's plan. Prophecy,even of Jesus arrival should inform of that.

It's wild. People say they believe in Jesus. They believe the Bible teachings.
Until they say they don't.

 

[quietthinker]

They shall drown in a lake of fire. God was very clear in Jesus.


The scriptures are very clear that predetermination is God's plan. Prophecy,even of Jesus arrival should inform of that.

It's wild. People say they believe in Jesus. They believe the Bible teachings.
Until they say they don't.

What one believes in real terms is reflected in their attitude and of course behaviour towards others.

 

[Robert Pate]

Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil and now sits in heaven as "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16. Salvation has been made available to everyone, Hebrews 2:9. It is God's great free gift for all that want to be saved, Ephesians 2:8. If you reject this great free gift of salvation, you will never see heaven.

 

[marks]

And only those natural minds that are changed by his Holy Spirit can understand the Gospel,the things of God.
1 Corinthians 2:14.

Which afterwards coincides with Jesus statement in John 6:44.
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Two things on this . . .

John called Jesus the light that comes into the world enlightening every man. Paul wrote to Titus that the grace of God unto salvation has appeared to all men. I understand that to mean that each person at least sometime in their life is able to understand and choose whether to receive or not.

Jesus said, no one can come unless the Father draw him, but He also said that if He be lifted up (crucified) He would draw all men to Himself, so this changed.

Much love!

 

[BlessedPeace]

Two things on this . . .

John called Jesus the light that comes into the world enlightening every man. Paul wrote to Titus that the grace of God unto salvation has appeared to all men. I understand that to mean that each person at least sometime in their life is able to understand and choose whether to receive or not.

Jesus said, no one can come unless the Father draw him, but He also said that if He be lifted up (crucified) He would draw all men to Himself, so this changed.

Much love!

Why would it change? How would it change given Jesus was teaching the eternal irrevocable Gospel of God.

I think if that changed Jesus would not have taught that no man comes to him unless the Father calls,draws,them.

Because that sermon regarding that condition upon the called referred to those whom his crucifixion would later save.

Therefore,in my view, contextually speaking as Jesus would have knowing his mission on earth for which he was born,any seeming universal adjectives would actually be specifically referring to those he tells us God elects.

Much love back at ya.