Predestinated to Salvation !

[Origen]

Many today deny that some people are predestinated to Salvation. That some are predestinated to Salvation is clearly taught in scripture, particularly Rom 8:28-30

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.


29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.


30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Much ink has been spilled by many theologians down the ages over this conundrum of predestination. The perplexity of this mystery as it relates to salvation has, not surprisingly, given rise to the heresy of "predestinarianism", of which Calvinism is one of its chief advocates. This heretical understanding of Paul's teaching concerning "those whom [God] has predestined [...]" is based on two fundamental errors:

• the absolute will of God as the sole cause of the salvation or damnation of the individual, regardless of his merits or demerits;
• as to the elect, it denies the freedom of the will under the influence of efficacious grace and puts the reprobate under the necessity of committing sin because of the absence of grace.

The following will hopefully be a needed correction of the errors it has occasioned.

All men are predestined to grace, since Jesus died for all men without exception.

Those who remain faithful at least to the natural law of the Good are predestined to glory. At the end of time, yes, everyone who has lived as a just person will have their reward.

From eternity God has known those who were destined to glory, even before they were born, that is "predestined". Be careful however to understand the justice of God with justice.

It is certain that there are predestined people. And God knows them from before their time to live begins. But they are not so because God has given them every means of becoming glorious and blocked all dangers of the devil, the world and the flesh. That would clearly be unjust. God gives them what He has given everybody. They use God's gifts with justice, and therefore win future and eternal glory through their own free will.

God knows that they will reach this eternal glory. However, they do not know it, nor does God tell them in any way. The special gifts themselves are not a sure sign of glory; they are a more severe means to test a person's spirit in their will, virtue, and faithfulness to God and His law. God knows. He is happy to know in advance that a particular creature will achieve glory just as He suffers knowing that another will freely achieve damnation.

However, He does not intervene in any way to force the free will of any creature in order for it to reach the place where God wants everyone to reach; Heaven. Of course a creature's response to divine help increases its will power. God opens up the more a man loves Him in truth; the love of actions, not that of words.

And, again, the more man lives a just life, the more God communicates with him and shows himself to him. It's a foretaste of that knowing God that makes the saints in Heaven so happy. From this foretaste comes an increased capacity to want to be more perfect. However, man is always free to follow his own will and if after reaching perfection decides to renounce the good done and sell himself to Evil, God leaves him free to do so. There would be no merit if one is forced to do something.

To conclude: God knows from eternity who are the future eternal inhabitants of Heaven, but man with his free will must want to reach Heaven using the supernatural help that the Eternal Father gives every creature. It will be like this until one's last breath, whatever the gifts received or the level of perfection reached.

Remember nobody has ever arrived until their journey is finished. That is, no one can be sure to have merited glory until their time is over and immortality begins. (10.23.48)

 

[Rockerduck]

Much ink has been spilled by many theologians down the ages over this conundrum of predestination. The perplexity of this mystery as it relates to salvation has, not surprisingly, given rise to the heresy of "predestinarianism", of which Calvinism is one of its chief advocates. This heretical understanding of Paul's teaching concerning "those whom [God] has predestined [...]" is based on two fundamental errors:

• the absolute will of God as the sole cause of the salvation or damnation of the individual, regardless of his merits or demerits;
• as to the elect, it denies the freedom of the will under the influence of efficacious grace and puts the reprobate under the necessity of committing sin because of the absence of grace.

The following will hopefully be a needed correction of the errors it has occasioned.

All men are predestined to grace, since Jesus died for all men without exception.

Those who remain faithful at least to the natural law of the Good are predestined to glory. At the end of time, yes, everyone who has lived as a just person will have their reward.

From eternity God has known those who were destined to glory, even before they were born, that is "predestined". Be careful however to understand the justice of God with justice.

It is certain that there are predestined people. And God knows them from before their time to live begins. But they are not so because God has given them every means of becoming glorious and blocked all dangers of the devil, the world and the flesh. That would clearly be unjust. God gives them what He has given everybody. They use God's gifts with justice, and therefore win future and eternal glory through their own free will.

God knows that they will reach this eternal glory. However, they do not know it, nor does God tell them in any way. The special gifts themselves are not a sure sign of glory; they are a more severe means to test a person's spirit in their will, virtue, and faithfulness to God and His law. God knows. He is happy to know in advance that a particular creature will achieve glory just as He suffers knowing that another will freely achieve damnation.

However, He does not intervene in any way to force the free will of any creature in order for it to reach the place where God wants everyone to reach; Heaven. Of course a creature's response to divine help increases its will power. God opens up the more a man loves Him in truth; the love of actions, not that of words.

And, again, the more man lives a just life, the more God communicates with him and shows himself to him. It's a foretaste of that knowing God that makes the saints in Heaven so happy. From this foretaste comes an increased capacity to want to be more perfect. However, man is always free to follow his own will and if after reaching perfection decides to renounce the good done and sell himself to Evil, God leaves him free to do so. There would be no merit if one is forced to do something.

To conclude: God knows from eternity who are the future eternal inhabitants of Heaven, but man with his free will must want to reach Heaven using the supernatural help that the Eternal Father gives every creature. It will be like this until one's last breath, whatever the gifts received or the level of perfection reached.

Remember nobody has ever arrived until their journey is finished. That is, no one can be sure to have merited glory until their time is over and immortality begins. (10.23.48)

Looks like you agreed with @brightfame52 on Predestination. Your conclusion was almost right. You left the name Jesus out, the author and finisher of our faith. No Jesus, no salvation

 

[Origen]

Looks like you agreed with @brightfame52 on Predestination.

False. In fact, I prefaced my post by saying that his (@brightfame52) heretical understanding of Paul's teaching concerning "those whom [God] has predestined [...]" is based on two fundamental errors:

• the absolute will of God as the sole cause of the salvation or damnation of the individual, regardless of his merits or demerits;
• as to the elect, it denies the freedom of the will under the influence of efficacious grace and puts the reprobate under the necessity of committing sin because of the absence of grace.

 

[brightfame52]

@Origen

• the absolute will of God as the sole cause of the salvation or damnation of the individual, regardless of his merits or demerits;
• as to the elect, it denies the freedom of the will under the influence of efficacious grace and puts the reprobate under the necessity of committing sin because of the absence of grace.

When God created made the vessels of wrath to fit them for destruction, He made it so they fit themselves for destruction likewise, they merited their destruction, but thats not why God created them to destruction because He foresaw their evil, He was just pleased to make them so that they would earn their destruction. Thats why they will be judged righteously for their evil deeds/works Rev 20:12-14

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

And for the elect vessels of mercy, He made them so that they would partake of His saving Mercy and Grace, that they would fall in Adam and become sinful people who He can save and magnify His Grace.

And efficacious grace is the new birth, its the Spirit , not just an influence, its God working in an individual, He is not a influence Phil 2:13

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

 

[Rockerduck]

False. In fact, I prefaced my post by saying that his (@brightfame52) heretical understanding of Paul's teaching concerning "those whom [God] has predestined [...]" is based on two fundamental errors:

• the absolute will of God as the sole cause of the salvation or damnation of the individual, regardless of his merits or demerits;
• as to the elect, it denies the freedom of the will under the influence of efficacious grace and puts the reprobate under the necessity of committing sin because of the absence of grace.

You said "It is certain that there are predestined people. And God knows them from before their time to live begins."

that's why I said you agreed with him.

 

[Origen]

You said "It is certain that there are predestined people. And God knows them from before their time to live begins."

that's why I said you agreed with him.

That's not all I said, nor do I agree with him. Try reading the words that precede and follow the ones in that quote in my post.

 

[Origen]

@Origen



When God created made the vessels of wrath to fit them for destruction, He made it so they fit themselves for destruction likewise, they merited their destruction, but thats not why God created them to destruction because He foresaw their evil, He was just pleased to make them so that they would earn their destruction. Thats why they will be judged righteously for their evil deeds/works Rev 20:12-14

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

And for the elect vessels of mercy, He made them so that they would partake of His saving Mercy and Grace, that they would fall in Adam and become sinful people who He can save and magnify His Grace.

And efficacious grace is the new birth, its the Spirit , not just an influence, its God working in an individual, He is not a influence Phil 2:13

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

It is certain that there are predestined people. And God knows them from before their time to live begins. But they are not so because God has given them every means of becoming glorious and blocked all dangers of the devil, the world and the flesh. That would clearly be unjust. In addition, there's no merit in coercion.

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

Many today deny that some people are predestinated to Salvation. That some are predestinated to Salvation is clearly taught in scripture, particularly Rom 8:28-30

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.


29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.


30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Now understand, them He foreknew are a people who had not yet been born, and yet to be born as sinners dead in trespasses and sins Eph 2:1,5 ! Now these before they had any being save in the mind and purpose of God, had been predestinated to be conformed to the image of Gods Son, who is Heavenly and Spiritual, the Lord from heaven, in contrast to adam the earthy 1 Cor 15:47-49


47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.


Remember they had been foreknown and predestinated to be conformed to the image of Christ Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son,

In 1 Cor 15:49 Paul can write we shall also bear the image of the heavenly, because its been predestined by God from all eternity.

Now in order for sinners to be conformed to the image of Christ, it takes a work of the Spirit as seen here in 1 2 Cor 3:18

But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

So this is a Salvation work to be conformed to the image of Christ, it necessitates the New Birth, a Salvation Blessing !

This proves without a shadow of doubt that some have been predestinated to Salvation !

All Saints in Christ are,were, predestined to that Salvation.

Even Jesus said,he taught in parables so not all would understand and come to repentance.

There are those who claim to believe in Jesus but they don't believe him when he stated that fact in his own ministry.

Jesus came to save all people...whom God foreknew and predestined for his grace.

Just think. If $100 was deposited in your bank account every time someone accused Jesus of being a Calvinist how rich you would be.

And that is what they're doing when they insist on injecting the term, Calvinism, into a thread about the Gospel so to revoke the Gospel truth itself with that C word the accusers only know how to toss about while actually knowing nothing about Calvinism at all.

Sad.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Believers have predestination only because God knew before they were born that they would come to become believers.

 

[David Lamb]

Believers have predestination only because God knew before they were born that they would come to become believers.

That doesn't match what Paul wrote to the church at Ephesus:

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,” (Eph 1:3-5 NKJV)

Yes, He chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world, He didn't wait to see if we would believe or not, then choose us if we did believe. His predestination is according to the good pleasure of His will.

 

[brightfame52]

It is certain that there are predestined people. And God knows them from before their time to live begins. But they are not so because God has given them every means of becoming glorious and blocked all dangers of the devil, the world and the flesh. That would clearly be unjust. In addition, there's no merit in coercion.

Sounds like you still lack. understanding in this matter