Jesus Came to Bring Division, Not Peace

[Wynona]

Ive been a member of forums a long time. It was an ideal of mine that we'd get along and have peaceful discussion.

I believe now this is not meant to happen. I don't believe biblical doctrine is ever going to agree with the doctrine of demons. The two doctrines are at war.

Jesus said he would bring division. (Matthew 10:34-36).

There are many false prophets in the world but Im encouraged that those who accept the Lordship and Word of Christ fully all tend to speak the same things as Paul wished (1 Corinthians 1:10)

They all agree that we are to forsake sin altogether and practice righteousness as Jesus is righteous.

Because there is a spirit of disobedience that causes strife and confusion, there will be no idealistically peaceful discourse.

And I'm okay with that. As a woman, I no longer feel like I should be on the front lines of contending for sound doctrine to those who wish to argue. I have a family to support and teach first and foremost. But I certainly admire those who are teaching sound doctrine in this tense and often heated environment.

 

[Pearl]

There are many false prophets in the world but Im encouraged that those who accept the Lordship and Word of Christ fully all tend to speak the same things as Paul wished (1 Corinthians 1:10)

Yes, because we are all filled with the same Holy Spirit. When I first started coming on forums I was naïve and thought everybody would be a true Christian, but all forums are the same, a mix of true followers of the Way and those who aren't

 

[Wynona]

Yes, because we are all filled with the same Holy Spirit. When I first started coming on forums I was naïve and thought everybody would be a true Christian, but all forums are the same, a mix of true followers of the Way and those who aren't

Hey, it's good to see you! God bless you!

 

[Pearl]

Hey, it's good to see you! God bless you!

And you Wynona. I've been coming on the site regularly but not crossed paths with you for ages. How is the little one?

 

[Wynona]

And you Wynona. I've been coming on the site regularly but not crossed paths with you for ages. How is the little one?

She is strong, loud, and a bit sassy. She sleeps at night and naps three times a day. Shell be 6 months old tomorrow. It's a lot of fun being a Mom. She loves to roll and is learning to crawl.

 

[Pearl]

She is strong, loud, and a bit sassy. She sleeps at night and naps three times a day. Shell be 6 months old tomorrow. It's a lot of fun being a Mom. She loves to roll and is learning to crawl.

I so pleased that you are enjoying your time with her as time goes by so fast. I remember all mine, they were, and still are, all different. My oldest girl will be 60 this year, yet I remember her birth and babyhood so clearly. I'm getting great grandchildren now which is lovely. Made me feel old though to think of my daughter as a granny. :)

 

[Wrangler]

Ive been a member of forums a long time. It was an ideal of mine that we'd get along and have peaceful discussion.

A famous person observed there is no heated debates over math, the less certain we are, the more passionately we argue for it. This is human nature. We tend not to be emotionally invested in what we know but what we suspect/believe/want, etc.

Because there is a spirit of disobedience that causes strife and confusion, there will be no idealistically peaceful discourse.

Iron sharpens iron.

I've mentioned my devoted Catholic grandmothers many times on this forum who went to church weekly for a combined 150 years. But theologians, they weren't. Obedient but not philosophical, they just accepted what the priests told them. Not here!

Here, everyone feels energized by debating the "deeper" meaning of every word of the word. LOL

I've particularly noticed what you say is true about topics I tend to be less passionate about. I see from the outside the acrimony over Pre and Post Trib debates. Honestly, I don't understand the argument as it has nothing to do with salvation. Yet, many post energetically in such threads. To each, his own.

 

[Nancy]

A famous person observed there is no heated debates over math, the less certain we are, the more passionately we argue for it. This is human nature. We tend not to be emotionally invested in what we know but what we suspect/believe/want, etc.


Iron sharpens iron.

I've mentioned my devoted Catholic grandmothers many times on this forum who went to church weekly for a combined 150 years. But theologians, they weren't. Obedient but not philosophical, they just accepted what the priests told them. Not here!

Here, everyone feels energized by debating the "deeper" meaning of every word of the word. LOL

I've particularly noticed what you say is true about topics I tend to be less passionate about. I see from the outside the acrimony over Pre and Post Trib debates. Honestly, I don't understand the argument as it has nothing to do with salvation. Yet, many post energetically in such threads. To each, his own.

Hi Wrangler!
I have to disagree that pre or post trib has anything to do with salvation. As we all know, many, many "Christians" have a bible with 3 inches of dust on them. They (especially this generation) listen to the Pre Trib doctrine and since wanting to believe it, they do! What if there is no pre-trib? These pre trib folks have been parroting this fairly new doctrine to those who are babes, weak in the faith and those who have been taught this from birth. Then we have the unbelievers in our lives that hear all of this stuff from family members, or other Christians they cross paths with.
Now, if there is no pre trib, will they see all those who claimed "Pre-Trib, Pre-Trib! as liars? Fools? Will they not run and get that "mark" so as to buy and sell?
Maybe some things should not be taught as solid truth but a "maybe". We already were told that we can only know the seasons when He is near, perhaps if pre or post trib. folks would teach that it is not proven fully either way (I tend toward post, or mid) But, I do not try to "teach" it either. We are to be ready and strong in faith in Christ, so we can make it through and be found worthy.
These are only my beliefs; now if you want to talk Calvinism...!! Ahh no thanks, lol.

And yes @Wynona , Jesus came to separate wheat from tares, mother against daughter, father against son and so on.
And of course:
"17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
Romans 16:17,18

I do have an issue with "sinless perfection" When I read things like Titus 2:11-14, I see that we still need His Spirit to overcome in this life, God sent his Holy Spirit to empower his people to overcome sin and to live obedient, righteous lives in the present (Titus 2:11-14).

Hope all is good with you and the family!

 

[Wrangler]

What if there is no pre-trib?

I'm a simple thinker so break things down to the funamentals:

1. WHAT
2. WHERE
3. WHEN
4. HOW
5. WHY

The WHAT of salvation is not dependent on the WHEN of tribulation.

There is a common quip that I hate. "All we can do now is pray." Praying and turning to God is the first thing you should do! No one should what until times are bad (tribulation) to turn to God. Not sure how you connect salvation to tribulation?

Now, if there is no pre trib, will they see all those who claimed "Pre-Trib, Pre-Trib! as liars? Fools? Will they not run and get that "mark" so as to buy and sell?

Sister, I just stay in my lane. Salvation does not depend on any of us (Pre-Trib, Millenial Trib) getting our doctrine right.

If anyone wants to rationalize not turning to God because someone told them wrong doctrine, that's on the unbeliever. The Apostles and even Jesus, himself, was called names. We ought to expect it now in our attempts - weak as they are - to bring forth the Kingdom of God. What separates us, as Christians, is insignficant next to what unites us. Christ, our lord. Amen?

 

[amadeus]

Hi Wrangler!
I have to disagree that pre or post trib has anything to do with salvation. As we all know, many, many "Christians" have a bible with 3 inches of dust on them. They (especially this generation) listen to the Pre Trib doctrine and since wanting to believe it, they do! What if there is no pre-trib? These pre trib folks have been parroting this fairly new doctrine to those who are babes, weak in the faith and those who have been taught this from birth. Then we have the unbelievers in our lives that hear all of this stuff from family members, or other Christians they cross paths with.
Now, if there is no pre trib, will they see all those who claimed "Pre-Trib, Pre-Trib! as liars? Fools? Will they not run and get that "mark" so as to buy and sell?
Maybe some things should not be taught as solid truth but a "maybe". We already were told that we can only know the seasons when He is near, perhaps if pre or post trib. folks would teach that it is not proven fully either way (I tend toward post, or mid) But, I do not try to "teach" it either. We are to be ready and strong in faith in Christ, so we can make it through and be found worthy.
These are only my beliefs; now if you want to talk Calvinism...!! Ahh no thanks, lol.

And yes @Wynona , Jesus came to separate wheat from tares, mother against daughter, father against son and so on.
And of course:
"17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
Romans 16:17,18

I do have an issue with "sinless perfection" When I read things like Titus 2:11-14, I see that we still need His Spirit to overcome in this life, God sent his Holy Spirit to empower his people to overcome sin and to live obedient, righteous lives in the present (Titus 2:11-14).

Hope all is good with you and the family!

It still comes down to today in all matters. Tomorrow, tribulation or no tribulation, pre or post, may never come for me [each of us being "me"]. Am I ready now to meet my Master or am I not? Am I being led by the Holy Spirit or am I not?

 

[amadeus]

Ive been a member of forums a long time. It was an ideal of mine that we'd get along and have peaceful discussion.

I believe now this is not meant to happen. I don't believe biblical doctrine is ever going to agree with the doctrine of demons. The two doctrines are at war.

Jesus said he would bring division. (Matthew 10:34-36).

There are many false prophets in the world but Im encouraged that those who accept the Lordship and Word of Christ fully all tend to speak the same things as Paul wished (1 Corinthians 1:10)

They all agree that we are to forsake sin altogether and practice righteousness as Jesus is righteous.

Because there is a spirit of disobedience that causes strife and confusion, there will be no idealistically peaceful discourse.

And I'm okay with that. As a woman, I no longer feel like I should be on the front lines of contending for sound doctrine to those who wish to argue. I have a family to support and teach first and foremost. But I certainly admire those who are teaching sound doctrine in this tense and often heated environment.

Look to Jesus today dear Sister in Christ. All of these disagreements may indeed come to naught for you or for me, or worse, if we are not simply content with what God has given us. Should we be asking Him for more? Of the right things certainly, but... keep always the first things according to God, first.
Good to see you here today. I am glad your baby is also blessed.

 

[Nancy]

Hi Wrangler!
I have to disagree that pre or post trib has anything to do with salvation. As we all know, many, many "Christians" have a bible with 3 inches of dust on them. They (especially this generation) listen to the Pre Trib doctrine and since wanting to believe it, they do! What if there is no pre-trib? These pre trib folks have been parroting this fairly new doctrine to those who are babes, weak in the faith and those who have been taught this from birth. Then we have the unbelievers in our lives that hear all of this stuff from family members, or other Christians they cross paths with.
Now, if there is no pre trib, will they see all those who claimed "Pre-Trib, Pre-Trib! as liars? Fools? Will they not run and get that "mark" so as to buy and sell?
Maybe some things should not be taught as solid truth but a "maybe". We already were told that we can only know the seasons when He is near, perhaps if pre or post trib. folks would teach that it is not proven fully either way (I tend toward post, or mid) But, I do not try to "teach" it either. We are to be ready and strong in faith in Christ, so we can make it through and be found worthy.
These are only my beliefs; now if you want to talk Calvinism...!! Ahh no thanks, lol.

And yes @Wynona , Jesus came to separate wheat from tares, mother against daughter, father against son and so on.
And of course:
"17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
Romans 16:17,18

I do have an issue with "sinless perfection" When I read things like Titus 2:11-14, I see that we still need His Spirit to overcome in this life, God sent his Holy Spirit to empower his people to overcome sin and to live obedient, righteous lives in the present (Titus 2:11-14)...

Hey Mr. E!
I haven't heard you whinny in a bit! I hope you're well.
Just out of curiosity, is there a reason you responded to my post with a laugh?

 

[BlessedPeace]

Yes, because we are all filled with the same Holy Spirit. When I first started coming on forums I was naïve and thought everybody would be a true Christian, but all forums are the same, a mix of true followers of the Way and those who aren't

Denominationalism helped make the division among us. Confessions of faith as prescribed by men with a vested interest in venerating their consensus as relates to what it means to understand God,and his message.

Christian churches are no different than our forums atmosphere.

We think because the words of God don't inform another in the same way as we understand them that those others are false Christians. (The exception of course are atheists who POEse so to Troll us)

Yet what we may not see is that God teaches each one of us what we need to know so to complete our transformation toward holiness.

It's a bit like church itself.

Only God doesn't stand in a pulpit inside a building and speak to a room full of people. Rather,he speaks in that church that is the whole collection of individual believers who are temples anointed and dedicated by and to God.

Everyone in the faith reads the scriptures with a slight personal understanding. That I think is why ours is a relationship with God,not a dictatorship.

 

[Pearl]

Christian churches are no different than our forums atmosphere.

Perhaps the traditional denominations are like that because their traditions etc seem to be written in stone. But I think you'll find that the break-away, independent church groups are definitely united in spirit. I know my one is.