Is Satan an angel?

[Bob Estey]

No. Nobody can tell you any more than that angels are spirit beings, but nobody knows what a spirit being is. I suspect that spirit beings can access other dimensions which we humans do not have access to, and we can't imagine what that is like.

You define angels as "spiritual beings." We have spirits, don't we?

 

[Bob Estey]

You're living in fantasy land! Where is the Biblical evidence that would make anybody think that? We are humans, and the Scriptures only say that Christians will be changed to become a new creation (so not angels, as they are an old creation) at the first resurrection/rapture:

1 Corinthians 15:22-23 (WEB):

(22) For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.​

(23) But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then those who are Christ’s, at his coming.​

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 (WEB):

(15) For this we tell you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep.​

(16) For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with God’s trumpet. The dead in Christ will rise first,​

(17) then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. So we will be with the Lord forever.​

1 Corinthians 15:44 (WEB):

(44) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body and there is also a spiritual body.​

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (WEB):

(51) Behold, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,​

(52) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed.​

1 John 3:2 (WEB):

(2) Beloved, now we are children of God, and it is not yet revealed what we will be. But we know that when he is revealed, we will be like him; for we will see him just as he is.​

All Christians will be changed to immortal spirit beings at the same time - when Jesus returns for the Church. Until then we remain humans or wait asleep in death.

We'll see.

 

[keithr]

You define angels as "spiritual beings." We have spirits, don't we?

We have physical bodies, not spiritual bodies. Angels have spiritual bodies.

1 Corinthians 15:44-49 (ESV):

(44) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.​

(45) Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.​

(46) But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual.​

(47) The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.​

(48) As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven.​

(49) Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.​

 

[keithr]

We'll see.

Yes! The verses that I quoted in post #18 are straightforward, clear and easy to understand. Don't you have belief and faith in the Scriptures? You seem willing to believe in something that the Scriptures don't say (that we become angels when we repent), so why won't you believe in what the Sriptures do say?!

 

[Bob Estey]

We have physical bodies, not spiritual bodies. Angels have spiritual bodies.

1 Corinthians 15:44-49 (ESV):

(44) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.​

(45) Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.​

(46) But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual.​

(47) The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.​

(48) As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven.​

(49) Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.​

And where did you learn this?

 

[keithr]

And where did you learn this?

The Bible of course. Angels are not physical men:

John 3:13 (KJV):

(13) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.​

John 1:18 (KJV):

(18) No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.​

Matthew 18:10 (WEB):

(10) See that you don’t despise one of these little ones, for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven.​

Hebrews 1 (WEB):

(7) Of the angels he says, “Who makes his angels winds, and his servants a flame of fire.”​

(13) But which of the angels has he told at any time, “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies the footstool of your feet?”​

(14) Aren’t they all serving spirits, sent out to do service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?​

 

[Bob Estey]

The Bible of course. Angels are not physical men:

John 3:13 (KJV):

(13) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.​

John 1:18 (KJV):

(18) No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.​

Matthew 18:10 (WEB):

(10) See that you don’t despise one of these little ones, for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven.​

Hebrews 1 (WEB):

(7) Of the angels he says, “Who makes his angels winds, and his servants a flame of fire.”​

(13) But which of the angels has he told at any time, “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies the footstool of your feet?”​

(14) Aren’t they all serving spirits, sent out to do service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation?​

And aren't we serving spirits?

 

[keithr]

And aren't we serving spirits?

No, we are human! Again, it's common sense!

Jesus was a man (human) and so are we (currently):

Romans 5:15 (WEB):

(15) But the free gift isn’t like the trespass. For if by the trespass of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God, and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.​

1 Timothy 2:5 (WEB):

(5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,​

Romans 8:9 (WEB):

(9) But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if it is so that the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if any man doesn’t have the Spirit of Christ, he is not his.​

Hebrews 2:10,14 (WEB, ESV):

(10) For it became him {Jesus}, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many children to glory, to make the author of their salvation perfect through sufferings.​

(14) Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he {Jesus} himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,​

Matthew 10:24 (WEB):

(24) “A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his lord.​

As I quoted previously (post #25), 1 Corinthians 15 (WEB):

(44) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.​

{We die as a human; we are resurrected as a spirit being.}​

​

(46) But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural {physical, human}, and then the spiritual {spiritual body}.​

(47) The first man {Adam} was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man {Jesus} is from heaven.​

(48) As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven.​

(49) Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust {and still do}, we shall {when we are resurrected} also bear the image of the man of heaven.​

 

[Bob Estey]

No, we are human! Again, it's common sense!

Jesus was a man (human) and so are we (currently):

Romans 5:15 (WEB):

(15) But the free gift isn’t like the trespass. For if by the trespass of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God, and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.​

1 Timothy 2:5 (WEB):

(5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,​

Romans 8:9 (WEB):

(9) But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if it is so that the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if any man doesn’t have the Spirit of Christ, he is not his.​

Hebrews 2:10,14 (WEB, ESV):

(10) For it became him {Jesus}, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many children to glory, to make the author of their salvation perfect through sufferings.​

(14) Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he {Jesus} himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,​

Matthew 10:24 (WEB):

(24) “A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his lord.​

As I quoted previously (post #25), 1 Corinthians 15 (WEB):

(44) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.​

{We die as a human; we are resurrected as a spirit being.}​

​

(46) But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural {physical, human}, and then the spiritual {spiritual body}.​

(47) The first man {Adam} was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man {Jesus} is from heaven.​

(48) As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven.​

(49) Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust {and still do}, we shall {when we are resurrected} also bear the image of the man of heaven.​

No, our physical bodies will die, but our spirits will live on.

 

[keithr]

No, our physical bodies will die, but our spirits will live on.

If you don't believe that you are a human being, then I can't help you! Good grief, people will be saying that they're neither male or female next. The world's going mad.

John 8:44 (WEB):

(44) You are of your father, the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and doesn’t stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks on his own; for he is a liar, and the father of lies.​

 

[Bob Estey]

If you don't believe that you are a human being, then I can't help you! Good grief, people will be saying that they're neither male or female next. The world's going mad.

John 8:44 (WEB):

(44) You are of your father, the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and doesn’t stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks on his own; for he is a liar, and the father of lies.​

We are spirits with bodies. We can't take our present bodies into the resurrection, I'm pretty sure.

 

[keithr]

No, our physical bodies will die, but our spirits will live on.

When our body dies our spirit becomes unconscious, described by Jesus and the apostles as a sleep. We only will awake from that sleep if and when God resurrects us. We (Christians) are not immortal until God makes us immortal, which is when he resurrects us. As Paul said, if there is no resurrection "Then they also who are fallen asleep in Christ have perished" (1 Corinthians 15:18, WEB).

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This is self-evident. All one has to do is look around and see if there in ‘other than’, realms, axis, angels or devils.

scince says there are millions of planets in the universe and yet no one has actually ever seen another planet outside of our solar system.

Arrogant man says if we can't see it, it must not exist.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

We are spirits with bodies. We can't take our present bodies into the resurrection, I'm pretty sure.

Correct they are raised glorified and immortal.

 

[Bob Estey]

When our body dies our spirit becomes unconscious, described by Jesus and the apostles as a sleep. We only will awake from that sleep if and when God resurrects us. We (Christians) are not immortal until God makes us immortal, which is when he resurrects us. As Paul said, if there is no resurrection "Then they also who are fallen asleep in Christ have perished" (1 Corinthians 15:18, WEB).

No, I think our spirits will pass right onto the resurrection.

 

[Phil .]

scince says there are millions of planets in the universe and yet no one has actually ever seen another planet outside of our solar system.

Arrogant man says if we can't see it, it must not exist.

Even Science isn’t claiming there is other than this or any realms, axis, angels or devils.
The point is simply that it’s purely conceptual.


If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

 

[keithr]

No, I think our spirits will pass right onto the resurrection.

Your "thinking" is ignoring what the Bible says! Think about what happens to the spirit between death and the resurrection, and search the Bible to see what it says about it.

 

[Bob Estey]

Your "thinking" is ignoring what the Bible says! Think about what happens to the spirit between death and the resurrection, and search the Bible to see what it says about it.

The Bible says there is a judgment.

 

[keithr]

The bible says there is a judgment.

People are not judged while they are dead, they're judged after they have been resurrected.

What happens between death and resurrection is that we will be in an inconscious state - sleeping in death.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 (WEB):

(13) But we don’t want you to be ignorant, brothers, concerning those who have fallen asleep, so that you don’t grieve like the rest, who have no hope.​

Genesis 47:29-30 (WEB):

(29) The time came near that Israel must die, and he called his son Joseph, and said to him, “If now I have found favor in your sight, please put your hand under my thigh, and deal kindly and truly with me. Please don’t bury me in Egypt,​

(30) but when I sleep with my fathers, you shall carry me out of Egypt, and bury me in their burying place.” Joseph said, “I will do as you have said.”​

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Even Science isn’t claiming there is other than this or any realms, axis, angels or devils.
The point is simply that it’s purely conceptual.


If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

Yes it still makes a sound- we just don't hear it. That is science.

But science falsely so called denies the existence of the spirit realm.

There is no matter WHAT SECULAR SCIENCE SAYS. Angels Seraphs and Cherubs exist. They are not concepts. For those who reject the facts, the problem lies with them and to in reality.