The Wages of Sin is Death, even the second Death

[bro.tan]

Surely most Christian loves God the Father Almighty! Surely most Christians love their Savior, Jesus Christ! But does every Christian wants to live by (Luke:4:4) And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

The reference point for Christians is the Bible, the revelation of God to mankind and source book for God's commands to us, known as the divine Law. God's laws are holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good (Romans 7:12). They are the instructions for the way we should conduct our lives. Yet throughout history we see people trying to side-step the laws of God. Even today many Christian churches do not place as much emphasis on observing God's law as they do on ‘love’. But the fact is, we need both!

Jesus the Lawgiver

Writes the apostle John, (1John: 4:20) If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? As we can see, God condemns those who claim to love Him while they hate their brothers. Again in, (1John 3:14) it states We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Such statements we need to seriously take to heart especially in these days when we see communities dividing into factions.

Concerning the observance of the Law we find the following, (1John 2:4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. How can anyone claim to know God yet teach that it is not necessary to obey His laws?

Heart Religion

Many fail to understand that the `New Covenant' includes a better way to implement the same set of laws that were given on Mt. Sinai, the Ten Commandments:

(Jer.31: 31-33) (v.31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: (v.32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: (v.33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Notice that the law was not prophesied to be done away, but rather to be “put into our hearts and minds.”

 

[FaithWillDo]

Surely most Christian loves God the Father Almighty! Surely most Christians love their Savior, Jesus Christ! But does every Christian wants to live by (Luke:4:4) And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

The reference point for Christians is the Bible, the revelation of God to mankind and source book for God's commands to us, known as the divine Law. God's laws are holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good (Romans 7:12). They are the instructions for the way we should conduct our lives. Yet throughout history we see people trying to side-step the laws of God. Even today many Christian churches do not place as much emphasis on observing God's law as they do on ‘love’. But the fact is, we need both!

Jesus the Lawgiver

Writes the apostle John, (1John: 4:20) If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? As we can see, God condemns those who claim to love Him while they hate their brothers. Again in, (1John 3:14) it states We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Such statements we need to seriously take to heart especially in these days when we see communities dividing into factions.

Concerning the observance of the Law we find the following, (1John 2:4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. How can anyone claim to know God yet teach that it is not necessary to obey His laws?

Heart Religion

Many fail to understand that the `New Covenant' includes a better way to implement the same set of laws that were given on Mt. Sinai, the Ten Commandments:

(Jer.31: 31-33) (v.31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: (v.32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: (v.33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Notice that the law was not prophesied to be done away, but rather to be “put into our hearts and minds.”

Dear bro.tan,
The Law is fulfilled by Christ because mankind has no ability to do follow it. Christ fulfilled the sacrificial ordinances of the Old Covenant of Law at the cross. He is now fulfilling the remaining portions of the Law under the New Covenant which are summed up as loving God and loving our neighbors.

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Since we have discussed Sabbath Day keeping before, it would be pointless to go into that subject again.

However, I do want to comment on the verse you quoted:

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, it is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

This verse is teaching about the pathway to salvation. As the verse says, a person doesn't live (salvation) just by bread (truth) alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God. Some of those words which are included in the pathway to salvation are evil:

Lam 3:38 Out of the mouth of the Most High doth not there proceed evil and good?

It is those same evil words which the Elect will "keep" (Rev 1:3) when they experience their Day of Evil as recorded in Rev chapter 13.

Prov 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the Day of Evil.

During their Day of Evil, the Elect will become "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45) and become the Seven Headed Beast. This beast is also called a Man of Sin who has the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ (the second Beast). The Elect will be saved by these words, too and not just the words of bread.

Joe

 

[bro.tan]

Dear bro.tan,
The Law is fulfilled by Christ because mankind has no ability to do follow it. Christ fulfilled the sacrificial ordinances of the Old Covenant of Law at the cross. He is now fulfilling the remaining portions of the Law under the New Covenant which are summed up as loving God and loving our neighbors.

In, (Is. 42:21) we find another prophecy concerning Christ and the law. It reads, (v.21) The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he (Jesus) will magnify the law, and make it honourable. When you magnify something you enlarge it and bring it out more of its detail and richness. Jesus revealed the fulfillment of this prophecy when he explained, (Mat.5:27-28) (v.27) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: (v.28) But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart


By magnifying the law and making it honorable, the spiritual intent of the law is now emphasized which goes far beyond the mere the physical intent. God has raised His standards, not lowered them! All God ever wanted was what was best for us! He designed us to be His children. We are happiest when we love and obey Him. He is a God who is totally righteous and holy. God cannot sin. And He wants us to follow in His footsteps. The person that says, (1John:2:6) “that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.”

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Since we have discussed Sabbath Day keeping before, it would be pointless to go into that subject again.

However, I do want to comment on the verse you quoted:

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, it is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

This verse is teaching about the pathway to salvation. As the verse says, a person doesn't live (salvation) just by bread (truth) alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God. Some of those words which are included in the pathway to salvation are evil:

Lam 3:38 Out of the mouth of the Most High doth not there proceed evil and good?

It is those same evil words which the Elect will "keep" (Rev 1:3) when they experience their Day of Evil as recorded in Rev chapter 13.

Prov 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the Day of Evil.

During their Day of Evil, the Elect will become "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45) and become the Seven Headed Beast. This beast is also called a Man of Sin who has the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ (the second Beast). The Elect will be saved by these words, too and not just the words of bread.

Joe

Throughout the bible we find that in order to receive eternal salvation we must keep God's commandments to the end. If we make a mistake we must not give up, but I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:13-14). The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14). After this we find only seven more verses in the bible, and none of them does away with God's commandments.

The commandments of God are not hard to keep (I John 5:3) and furthermore, they teach us love in the highest degree. If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments (St. John 14:15). You will not displease the Lord by: Worshipping other gods, having graven images, taking his name in vain, breaking his Sabbath day (which is Saturday not Sunday), or dishonoring your parents. On the other hand, if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not kill him, commit adultery with his spouse, steal from him, falsely accuse him, or covet anything of his.

This is true love, and if obeyed how much better would our world be? This is why Jesus said that the two greatest commandments are loving the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind; and loving your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:35-40). These two commandments are the foundation of the entire law. Many reject the law, but it is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good (Romans 7:12) even today.

 

[bro.tan]

There are those who believe that because Christ overcame sin and kept the law that now we don't have to keep God's laws. But what do the Scriptures tell us? Here's what Jesus said:

(Mat.5:17-19) (v.17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (v.18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (v.19) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus came to fulfill, to fill to the full (Gk. plereo). He fulfilled many prophecies - but not all. There are many in the Book of Revelation still to be fulfilled. There is still some in the Old Testament that hasn’t been fulfilled. Jesus at His first coming came to fulfilled that which was written for Him to fulfill at His first coming. He has NOT fulfilled everything that was written for Him to do. And He kept all of the Law that he could - but that was not all! He was not a Temple priest. He was not a woman. He could not keep the laws intended only for priests and women. No matter how you think about Jesus, there is still much to be fulfilled! So not even the smallest part has yet passed from God's Law!

Jesus made it quite clear that anyone who would break even the least commandment and teach people to do so would be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. The fact is, God did not find fault with His laws but rather with the people who did not obey them. (Heb.8:7-8) (v.7) For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.(v.8) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: The writer of Hebrews then proceeds to quote Jeremiah 31:31-34, quoted above. Under the New Covenant we now have a living High Priest, Jesus Christ, who can make intercession for us. One who was tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. He is an intercessor who understands our weaknesses because He lived as a human being.

 

[FaithWillDo]

There are those who believe that because Christ overcame sin and kept the law that now we don't have to keep God's laws. But what do the Scriptures tell us? Here's what Jesus said:

(Mat.5:17-19) (v.17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (v.18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (v.19) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus came to fulfill, to fill to the full (Gk. plereo). He fulfilled many prophecies - but not all. There are many in the Book of Revelation still to be fulfilled. There is still some in the Old Testament that hasn’t been fulfilled. Jesus at His first coming came to fulfilled that which was written for Him to fulfill at His first coming. He has NOT fulfilled everything that was written for Him to do. And He kept all of the Law that he could - but that was not all! He was not a Temple priest. He was not a woman. He could not keep the laws intended only for priests and women. No matter how you think about Jesus, there is still much to be fulfilled! So not even the smallest part has yet passed from God's Law!

Jesus made it quite clear that anyone who would break even the least commandment and teach people to do so would be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. The fact is, God did not find fault with His laws but rather with the people who did not obey them. (Heb.8:7-8) (v.7) For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.(v.8) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: The writer of Hebrews then proceeds to quote Jeremiah 31:31-34, quoted above. Under the New Covenant we now have a living High Priest, Jesus Christ, who can make intercession for us. One who was tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. He is an intercessor who understands our weaknesses because He lived as a human being.

Dear bro.tan,
As the scripture says, Christ came to fulfill the Law because mankind has no ability to do so. He fulfilled the sacrificial requirements of the Old Covenant of Law at the cross. He is now fulfilling the remaining portion of the Law under the New Covenant. Under that covenant, Christ causes a saved person to "will and do of His good pleasure". For that reason, when a person is saved, they have entered into the rest of Christ.

When I responded to your post, it was not my intention to repeat our last discussion.

Joe

 

[bro.tan]

Dear bro.tan,
As the scripture says, Christ came to fulfill the Law because mankind has no ability to do so. He fulfilled the sacrificial requirements of the Old Covenant of Law at the cross. He is now fulfilling the remaining portion of the Law under the New Covenant. Under that covenant, Christ causes a saved person to "will and do of His good pleasure". For that reason, when a person is saved, they have entered into the rest of Christ.

When I responded to your post, it was not my intention to repeat our last discussion.

Joe

Are we to believe that as soon as we accept Jesus in our lives that our salvation is secure?
Just as you freely accepted Jesus in your life you can also freely choose to stop serving him. Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord. People are being taught that once you are quote “saved” that you can never fall to the spiritually lost condition. This is not true and totally unbiblical; and the teaching of Roman Christianity.

We still must obey all of God's laws and statues of conduct, from the ten commandments to the least commandment. We cannot choose to obey one without obeying the others. For instance, if it's still good to pay tithes (as many preach), then it is still good to obey God's dietary law (not eating pork, catfish, etc...Leviticus 11:1-47). Similarly, you cannot purposely trip a blind person (Leviticus 19:14) and claim to love your neighbor as yourself. Neither can you break God's Sabbath days (Leviticus 19:30) and claim to love God with all your heart, soul and mind.

Many fight to uphold man's traditional holidays (Sunday the 1st day as the Sabbath, Christmas, Easter and Halloween, etc), which is all apart of Roman Christianity, but few are obeying God's Holy Days (Saturday the 7th day Sabbath, the Passover, Pentecost, etc...Leviticus 23:1-44). All of God's laws are still good and must be obeyed if we want eternal life. We might not be able to observe everything perfectly, but can fight a good fight. If we do this our prize awaits us at the end. "...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments" (Matthew 19:17).

 

[FaithWillDo]

Are we to believe that as soon as we accept Jesus in our lives that our salvation is secure?

Dear bro.tan
I only want to respond to your first paragraph since we have had discussions on what you stated in your last two paragraphs.

I agree that when we first accept Jesus in our lives our salvation is not secure. I want to explain more on this truth below. But before I do, I want to comment on the verse you quoted; "the end" is referring to a person's moment of conversion - it is not speaking about the end of a person's physical life.

Also, the "end of the ages" which Christ teaches in Matthew chapter 24 is not a teaching about outward world events which are said to happen at the literal end of this age. Matthew chapter 24 is teaching on the spiritual events that happen within each of Christ's Elect as they travel the pathway to salvation. That pathway ends when the "ends of the the ages" come upon them. It is their moment of conversion.

Paul confirmed this understanding about the ends of the ages below:

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

Once a person is converted, their salvation is secure and can never be lost. So the key question is: When is a believer converted?

I will explain below when a believer's salvation is unsecured and when it is secured.

I will begin with this verse:

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

The believers to whom James is writing have only received the Early Rain of the Spirit. They received the Early Rain of the Spirit when Christ called them out from the world and gave them a measure of faith. This is when they enter the church. However, they remain unconverted and must wait on the Lord to return with the Latter Rain (the second coming of Christ).

Paul teaches this truth here:

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

When Christ comes to a person the first time, He will give them the Early Rain of the Spirit. At this time, Christ will only appear to them "in the flesh" as when He went to the cross. This means that the new believer will only have a carnal understanding of God's Word. This happens because the new believer remains spiritually blind and carnally minded after receiving the Early Rain (Mark 8:20-25). At this time, they will be incapable of seeing Christ spiritually. It is this carnal spiritual state keeps the truth of God's Word concealed from a new believer's understanding and what leaves the door open for Satan's deceptions.

This scripture applies:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

John said this about apostate believers:

1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Apostate believers don't realize that when Christ first came to them, He did so "in the flesh". In other words, an apostate believer denies that they have only received the Early Rain of the Spirit and are not converted. They don't believe that they must wait on the Lord to "come again" with the Latter Rain for their salvation and conversion. Because they don't realize their true spiritual state, they dwell in "peace and safety" in the apostate church, believing that they are following Christ when they are not.

1The 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

This verse above applies to the birthing analogy. When Christ comes to a fallen away Elect believer, He will bring "sudden destruction" upon them with His judgment. When this judgment is complete, the Elect believer will be converted and the new child of God will be born.

There are no churches/denominations that understand this truth taught by the Early and Latter Rains used in the farming analogy because they remain spiritually blind and are consuming Satan's leavened bread. They deny that Christ ever came to them in the flesh (the Early Rain).

CONTINUED ON THE NEXT POST...

 

[FaithWillDo]

Are we to believe that as soon as we accept Jesus in our lives that our salvation is secure?
Just as you freely accepted Jesus in your life you can also freely choose to stop serving him. Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord. People are being taught that once you are quote “saved” that you can never fall to the spiritually lost condition. This is not true and totally unbiblical; and the teaching of Roman Christianity.

We still must obey all of God's laws and statues of conduct, from the ten commandments to the least commandment. We cannot choose to obey one without obeying the others. For instance, if it's still good to pay tithes (as many preach), then it is still good to obey God's dietary law (not eating pork, catfish, etc...Leviticus 11:1-47). Similarly, you cannot purposely trip a blind person (Leviticus 19:14) and claim to love your neighbor as yourself. Neither can you break God's Sabbath days (Leviticus 19:30) and claim to love God with all your heart, soul and mind.

Many fight to uphold man's traditional holidays (Sunday the 1st day as the Sabbath, Christmas, Easter and Halloween, etc), which is all apart of Roman Christianity, but few are obeying God's Holy Days (Saturday the 7th day Sabbath, the Passover, Pentecost, etc...Leviticus 23:1-44). All of God's laws are still good and must be obeyed if we want eternal life. We might not be able to observe everything perfectly, but can fight a good fight. If we do this our prize awaits us at the end. "...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments" (Matthew 19:17).

CONTINUED FROM THE PREVIOUS POST...

The true church consists of only converted Elect believers who have received both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

The "many" who are "called" will enter the church after they receive the Early Rain of the Spirit. This is when a person is espoused to Christ. But because they remain spiritually blind, they will be deceived by Satan and will not remain faithful. In other words, they will commit fornication with Satan (believing Satan over Christ) and will fall from grace. This occurs when the spirit of anti-Christ enters the new believer and they are made "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45). This event is the Abomination of Desolation.

All called out believers will remain in this deceived & fallen away state until they die UNLESS they are one of the "few" who have also been "chosen" from the foundation of the world. For them (the Elect), their days as a man of sin will be shortened (Mat 24:22) since they will be harvested early as a First Fruit of Christ's harvest of mankind. Because their days are shortened, Christ will "come again" to them before they die. At that time, He will pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit upon them and heal their spiritual blindness. Now with "eyes that can see", the Elect believer will see the A of D that had previously occurred within themselves, along with the man of sin being revealed.

These verses apply:

Jer 3:3 Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no Latter Rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and RAIN (Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see that your wickedness is great, which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

When a fallen away Elect believer sees these signs (among others), Christ says this:

Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

When Christ appears to them, He will gather the Elect believer (who is now a child of God) to dwell with Him in heaven (spiritually speaking). This is the moment an Elect believer is saved after having fallen away. However, they are still not yet converted. To convert the Elect believer, Christ's judgment will fall on them (Mat 24:15-16). With this judgment, Christ will remove and destroy the spirit of anti-Christ & the Great Harlot (Mat 24:40-41) which still remains within the believer. With their destruction, only the Holy Spirit will remain within the believer. This spiritual process is called the "First Resurrection" in Rev 20:5. This is when the "ends of the ages" come upon an Elect believer and is when their salvation is secured. These are the believers who have endured to the end (Mat 24:13).

The First Resurrection is also called "conversion". The two parts of the conversion process are mentioned by John the Baptist below:

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain), and with Fire (judgment):

After the Elect believer is converted, they will forever dwell in the Kingdom of Heaven and the gates of hell will not be able to prevail against them.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

This is the true church which still exists in the world today. It is "few" in numbers and is unknown by this world. This is in contrast to Satan's church which is made up of "many" and is greatly known by the world.

Joe

 

[bro.tan]

CONTINUED FROM THE PREVIOUS POST...

The true church consists of only converted Elect believers who have received both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

The "many" who are "called" will enter the church after they receive the Early Rain of the Spirit. This is when a person is espoused to Christ. But because they remain spiritually blind, they will be deceived by Satan and will not remain faithful. In other words, they will commit fornication with Satan (believing Satan over Christ) and will fall from grace. This occurs when the spirit of anti-Christ enters the new believer and they are made "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45). This event is the Abomination of Desolation.

All called out believers will remain in this deceived & fallen away state until they die UNLESS they are one of the "few" who have also been "chosen" from the foundation of the world. For them (the Elect), their days as a man of sin will be shortened (Mat 24:22) since they will be harvested early as a First Fruit of Christ's harvest of mankind. Because their days are shortened, Christ will "come again" to them before they die. At that time, He will pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit upon them and heal their spiritual blindness. Now with "eyes that can see", the Elect believer will see the A of D that had previously occurred within themselves, along with the man of sin being revealed.

These verses apply:

Jer 3:3 Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no Latter Rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and RAIN (Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see that your wickedness is great, which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

When a fallen away Elect believer sees these signs (among others), Christ says this:

Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

When Christ appears to them, He will gather the Elect believer (who is now a child of God) to dwell with Him in heaven (spiritually speaking). This is the moment an Elect believer is saved after having fallen away. However, they are still not yet converted. To convert the Elect believer, Christ's judgment will fall on them (Mat 24:15-16). With this judgment, Christ will remove and destroy the spirit of anti-Christ & the Great Harlot (Mat 24:40-41) which still remains within the believer. With their destruction, only the Holy Spirit will remain within the believer. This spiritual process is called the "First Resurrection" in Rev 20:5. This is when the "ends of the ages" come upon an Elect believer and is when their salvation is secured. These are the believers who have endured to the end (Mat 24:13).

The First Resurrection is also called "conversion". The two parts of the conversion process are mentioned by John the Baptist below:

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain), and with Fire (judgment):

After the Elect believer is converted, they will forever dwell in the Kingdom of Heaven and the gates of hell will not be able to prevail against them.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

This is the true church which still exists in the world today. It is "few" in numbers and is unknown by this world. This is in contrast to Satan's church which is made up of "many" and is greatly known by the world.

Joe

In Revelation 22: 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

You can't add to the word of God, you have to follow all the Prophets, apostles, even Jesus.
I get it, you've been taught the Roman Christianity way, and as long as you stay on that rode you will do things that's not written in the Bible and use the Bible to justify it.

Now any Christian in their right mind wouldn’t dare say that it’s okay to steal, kill or commit adultery or break any of the other seven commandments. But when it comes to the fourth commandment, people avoid it like a plague! They are either uninformed about which day is the Sabbath day of the God of the Bible or they are just following the tradition of religion that was passed down through the family or maybe they have let some preacher give them other excuses for ignoring God’s true day of worship.

Jesus says in John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. So let's break this down..... What's some of the first things Jesus put on the table to teach, was repent. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. (Matthew 4: 17). How absolute is every word. Now repenting is work within itself, because you have to change from living a sinful life. Paul says in 1 Timothy 1: 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; Yeah ...so Paul is saying a whole lot here people. How can a person be disobedient in God's eyes. How can a person be unholy or a sinner, because sin is transgression of the law. Lets read it in (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. You must give up a lifestyle where sin has dominion, (ruler ship) over you.

Then a person can get baptize in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins. A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19). So you see this a process in life, Jesus did all these things to show us how it's done. The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it. If Jesus is our Lord then we will obey him. Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD” (James 2:20).

Jesus says in (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

 

[bro.tan]

Dear bro.tan
I only want to respond to your first paragraph since we have had discussions on what you stated in your last two paragraphs.

I agree that when we first accept Jesus in our lives our salvation is not secure. I want to explain more on this truth below. But before I do, I want to comment on the verse you quoted; "the end" is referring to a person's moment of conversion - it is not speaking about the end of a person's physical life.

Also, the "end of the ages" which Christ teaches in Matthew chapter 24 is not a teaching about outward world events which are said to happen at the literal end of this age. Matthew chapter 24 is teaching on the spiritual events that happen within each of Christ's Elect as they travel the pathway to salvation. That pathway ends when the "ends of the the ages" come upon them. It is their moment of conversion.

Paul confirmed this understanding about the ends of the ages below:

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

Once a person is converted, their salvation is secure and can never be lost. So the key question is: When is a believer converted?

I will explain below when a believer's salvation is unsecured and when it is secured.

I will begin with this verse:

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

The believers to whom James is writing have only received the Early Rain of the Spirit. They received the Early Rain of the Spirit when Christ called them out from the world and gave them a measure of faith. This is when they enter the church. However, they remain unconverted and must wait on the Lord to return with the Latter Rain (the second coming of Christ).

Paul teaches this truth here:

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

When Christ comes to a person the first time, He will give them the Early Rain of the Spirit. At this time, Christ will only appear to them "in the flesh" as when He went to the cross. This means that the new believer will only have a carnal understanding of God's Word. This happens because the new believer remains spiritually blind and carnally minded after receiving the Early Rain (Mark 8:20-25). At this time, they will be incapable of seeing Christ spiritually. It is this carnal spiritual state keeps the truth of God's Word concealed from a new believer's understanding and what leaves the door open for Satan's deceptions.

This scripture applies:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

John said this about apostate believers:

1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Apostate believers don't realize that when Christ first came to them, He did so "in the flesh". In other words, an apostate believer denies that they have only received the Early Rain of the Spirit and are not converted. They don't believe that they must wait on the Lord to "come again" with the Latter Rain for their salvation and conversion. Because they don't realize their true spiritual state, they dwell in "peace and safety" in the apostate church, believing that they are following Christ when they are not.

1The 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

This verse above applies to the birthing analogy. When Christ comes to a fallen away Elect believer, He will bring "sudden destruction" upon them with His judgment. When this judgment is complete, the Elect believer will be converted and the new child of God will be born.

There are no churches/denominations that understand this truth taught by the Early and Latter Rains used in the farming analogy because they remain spiritually blind and are consuming Satan's leavened bread. They deny that Christ ever came to them in the flesh (the Early Rain).

CONTINUED ON THE NEXT POST...

I agree with all the Bible verses and scriptures, but it all come down to your walk in this word of God. You have to keep this Commandments, statues and Judgements, or else you just talking and quoting. You have actually do these things you read about in the Bible.

You must realize, that it is the keeping of God’s holy laws that separates the righteous from the unrighteous and the Saints from the Sinners. (Titus: 3:8) This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. You must learn (by the word of God) what God expects of you and maintain his expectations to the end, if you expect to be saved. Jesus says in (Matt. 5:16) Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. You are supposed to glorify your Father in heaven, and let your light shine before men. And how do you do that? By having good works.

Paul said in (Gal. 3:11) But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH. This didn’t start in the New Testament, Paul was only quoting scripture, and the just has always lived by their faith. (Habakkuk 2:4) Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. The just shall live by his belief (faith), and how do you show the Lord that you believe in him? By your obedience to his word.

(1Tim. 6:17-19) (v.17) Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not high-minded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; (v.18) That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; (v.19) Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life. Riches and gains that is the doctrine of today, they are preaching the gospel of prosperity and not the gospel of the coming of the kingdom of God. But the Lord said to charge them that are rich in this world that they be not high-minded, but that they should be rich in good works that they may lay hold on eternal life.

 

[FaithWillDo]

In Revelation 22: 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

You can't add to the word of God, you have to follow all the Prophets, apostles, even Jesus.
I get it, you've been taught the Roman Christianity way, and as long as you stay on that rode you will do things that's not written in the Bible and use the Bible to justify it.

Now any Christian in their right mind wouldn’t dare say that it’s okay to steal, kill or commit adultery or break any of the other seven commandments. But when it comes to the fourth commandment, people avoid it like a plague! They are either uninformed about which day is the Sabbath day of the God of the Bible or they are just following the tradition of religion that was passed down through the family or maybe they have let some preacher give them other excuses for ignoring God’s true day of worship.

Jesus says in John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. So let's break this down..... What's some of the first things Jesus put on the table to teach, was repent. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. (Matthew 4: 17). How absolute is every word. Now repenting is work within itself, because you have to change from living a sinful life. Paul says in 1 Timothy 1: 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; Yeah ...so Paul is saying a whole lot here people. How can a person be disobedient in God's eyes. How can a person be unholy or a sinner, because sin is transgression of the law. Lets read it in (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. You must give up a lifestyle where sin has dominion, (ruler ship) over you.

Then a person can get baptize in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins. A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19). So you see this a process in life, Jesus did all these things to show us how it's done. The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it. If Jesus is our Lord then we will obey him. Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD” (James 2:20).

Jesus says in (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Dear bro.tan,
You said:
In Revelation 22: 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

You can't add to the word of God, you have to follow all the Prophets, apostles, even Jesus.
I get it, you've been taught the Roman Christianity way, and as long as you stay on that rode you will do things that's not written in the Bible and use the Bible to justify it.

My understanding only comes from scripture by the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I have no teachers and I associate with no denominations or churches. I was converted in 2005 and left the apostate church system at that time.

In this age, Christ is only harvesting the First Fruits of His harvest of mankind. They are called the Elect/heirs/saints/bride etc. Scripture details the pathway they will travel to salvation. However, salvation will also come to those who were not chosen to be one of the Elect. Their salvation will come to them when Christ judges them in the Lake of Fire (symbol for judgment, not literal fire). They will not have "life during the ages" but they will still be saved and will enter the Kingdom of Heaven at the end of the final age. This truth is typed by the Feast of Ingathering (Tabernacles).

Exo 23:16 And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits (the Elect of this age) of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field: and the feast of ingathering (the rest of mankind in the final age), which is in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field.

The verse below types the time when Christ will have mercy upon the lost of the final age:

John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast (the Feast of Ingathering/Tabernacles), Jesus stood and cried, saying, if any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Below is the same call to the lost in the final age but it adds the Elect to the call:

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

The verse below applies to Christ's judgment of the lost in the final age:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Christ will not omit mercy and faith when He judges the lost of the final age. After He gives them the faith they need, the pathway will be made "straight" for Christ to come to them and give them the Early & Latter Rains of the Spirit. After the new child of God is born, the child will be gathered to heaven. The child of the devil will remain in the Lake of Fire and will be destroyed (this satisfies justice and the penalty of sin). This spiritual process is called conversion. The Elect experience conversion in this age and the rest of mankind will experience it in the final age. This is when this scripture below will be testified to be true:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Joel chapter 2 shows the judgment of the lost in the final age. This chapter begins by showing the Elect (the Bride) riding with Christ in judgment over the lost. The Elect believers are Christ's army. But before the lost have "perished", Christ will have pity (mercy) upon them (v. 18) and give them the Early and Latter Rains for their salvation (v. 23).

Is your judgment like the judgment displayed by the Pharisees or does your judgment also include justice, mercy and faith like Christ's judgment does?

By the end of the final age, Christ will have accomplished the mission His Father gave Him:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

If Christ were to fail to save even one person, Christ would be "missing the mark" (sin) that His Father gave Him.

Have you ever really considered the scriptures I have presented above or are you only seeing what you want to see?

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

I agree with all the Bible verses and scriptures, but it all come down to your walk in this word of God. You have to keep this Commandments, statues and Judgements, or else you just talking and quoting. You have actually do these things you read about in the Bible.

You must realize, that it is the keeping of God’s holy laws that separates the righteous from the unrighteous and the Saints from the Sinners. (Titus: 3:8) This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. You must learn (by the word of God) what God expects of you and maintain his expectations to the end, if you expect to be saved. Jesus says in (Matt. 5:16) Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. You are supposed to glorify your Father in heaven, and let your light shine before men. And how do you do that? By having good works.

Paul said in (Gal. 3:11) But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH. This didn’t start in the New Testament, Paul was only quoting scripture, and the just has always lived by their faith. (Habakkuk 2:4) Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. The just shall live by his belief (faith), and how do you show the Lord that you believe in him? By your obedience to his word.

(1Tim. 6:17-19) (v.17) Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not high-minded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; (v.18) That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; (v.19) Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life. Riches and gains that is the doctrine of today, they are preaching the gospel of prosperity and not the gospel of the coming of the kingdom of God. But the Lord said to charge them that are rich in this world that they be not high-minded, but that they should be rich in good works that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Dear bro.tan,
We are saved by Christ and not by our own works. When Christ is ready to save a person, He will come to them and give them the Holy Spirit. With the Spirit, they will have the faith they need to call Jesus "Lord". This is the only way it can happen because of what this verse says:

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

If Christ didn't give a person the Holy Spirit beforehand, they would never understand Him or seek Him out. No one would ever be saved. But because of His grace, Christ will come to all men someday (at a time of His choosing) and freely give them the Holy Spirit.

Rom 5:15 But shall not the act of favour be as the offence? For if by the offence of one the many have died, much rather has the grace of God, and the free gift (Holy Spirit) in grace, which is by the one man Jesus Christ, abounded unto the many.

Don't read the scriptures which teach about the condemnation of the lost and equate that to mean they cannot ever be saved. The lost will suffer "loss" (life in the ages and reigning with Christ during the ages) but they will still receive grace before they perish in the Lake of Fire:

1Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward (the reward the Elect receive). 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss (they will not receive the rewards of the Elect): but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Here is more concerning what Christ's judgment is like:

Isa 1:27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.

Jer 4:2 And thou shalt swear, The LORD liveth, in truth, in judgment, and in righteousness; and the nations shall bless themselves in him, and in him shall they glory.

Psa 33:5 He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.

Prov 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Job 34:12 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.

Don't fall for Satan's lie that Christ cannot save all mankind. Christ established a plan to save us all before this creation began. It was at that time that God chose who were going to be blessed and saved early as a First Fruit and those would be be saved at the end of the final age. Mankind cannot choose the timing of their own salvation because mankind has no ability to contribute anything toward their own salvation. For this reason, the Elect have nothing to boast about over those who remain lost in this age:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Have you ever really read and considered what this scripture above teaches? It destroys any notion that we have any works with which we can contribute toward our salvation. We will only keep His commandments when Christ causes us to keep them. To believe as you do, you are mixing in your own works with the works of Christ. When a believer does this mixing, they are trying to serve two masters (Satan & Christ). This is the one and only sin that leads to death (loss of salvation). This is what it means to "fall away".

Joe

 

[bro.tan]

Dear bro.tan,
We are saved by Christ and not by our own works. When Christ is ready to save a person, He will come to them and give them the Holy Spirit. With the Spirit, they will have the faith they need to call Jesus "Lord". This is the only way it can happen because of what this verse says:

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

If Christ didn't give a person the Holy Spirit beforehand, they would never understand Him or seek Him out. No one would ever be saved. But because of His grace, Christ will come to all men someday (at a time of His choosing) and freely give them the Holy Spirit.

Rom 5:15 But shall not the act of favour be as the offence? For if by the offence of one the many have died, much rather has the grace of God, and the free gift (Holy Spirit) in grace, which is by the one man Jesus Christ, abounded unto the many.

Don't read the scriptures which teach about the condemnation of the lost and equate that to mean they cannot ever be saved. The lost will suffer "loss" (life in the ages and reigning with Christ during the ages) but they will still receive grace before they perish in the Lake of Fire:

1Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward (the reward the Elect receive). 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss (they will not receive the rewards of the Elect): but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Here is more concerning what Christ's judgment is like:

Isa 1:27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.

Jer 4:2 And thou shalt swear, The LORD liveth, in truth, in judgment, and in righteousness; and the nations shall bless themselves in him, and in him shall they glory.

Psa 33:5 He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.

Prov 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Job 34:12 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.

Don't fall for Satan's lie that Christ cannot save all mankind. Christ established a plan to save us all before this creation began. It was at that time that God chose who were going to be blessed and saved early as a First Fruit and those would be be saved at the end of the final age. Mankind cannot choose the timing of their own salvation because mankind has no ability to contribute anything toward their own salvation. For this reason, the Elect have nothing to boast about over those who remain lost in this age:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Have you ever really read and considered what this scripture above teaches? It destroys any notion that we have any works with which we can contribute toward our salvation. We will only keep His commandments when Christ causes us to keep them. To believe as you do, you are mixing in your own works with the works of Christ. When a believer does this mixing, they are trying to serve two masters (Satan & Christ). This is the one and only sin that leads to death (loss of salvation). This is what it means to "fall away".

Joe

Again, that's Roman Christianity teaching and not the what the word of God is saying, or Bible.
Paul said in (1 Cor. 15:1-2) (v.1) MOREOVER, brethren, I declare unto the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; (v.2) By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. Paul is telling you right here that you are saved by the gospel that he preached unto you if you keep it in memory. So what happens if you don’t keep it in memory? Then you have believed in vain you have believed for nothing that’s what vain means.

Lets go into (James 2: (v.14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? (v.15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of a daily food, (v.16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? If someone came to you hungry and needed clothes and all you told them was peace be unto you, and God bless you, be ye warmed and filled. All you did was give lip service, no works, you didn’t help the problem.

(v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith. (v.18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. True faith goes hand in hand with good works. (v.20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Did you know that? Has anybody ever read this verse to you? How can you, after reading this verse ever say again that we need not work? You can have all the faith you want, but if you have no works to go along with that faith, that faith is in vain, that faith is dead.

(v.21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? We read where Abraham, the father of the faithful showed the Lord his faith by his works. (v.22) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? (v.23) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND IT WAS IMPUTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS: and he was called the friend of God. (v.24) Ye see then how that by works a man is Justified, and not by faith only. Do you see that also?

Do you understand that you need works to go along with that faith; if you love and fear God then you should have no problem obeying his commandments. (v.25) Likewise also was not Ra’-hab the harlot justified by works, when she received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? Ra’-hab showed her faith in God and her fear of God by doing good works. (v.26) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. Take it or leave it, but this is the true uncut word of God. Just as the body is dead when you take away the spirit (breath) so faith is dead if you have no works.

Many reject the law, but it is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good (Romans 7:12) even today. All have sinned (broken the law...Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law (I John 3:4) and the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23).

 

[Jim C]

Again, that's Roman Christianity teaching and not the what the word of God is saying, or Bible.
Paul said in (1 Cor. 15:1-2) (v.1) MOREOVER, brethren, I declare unto the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; (v.2) By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. Paul is telling you right here that you are saved by the gospel that he preached unto you if you keep it in memory. So what happens if you don’t keep it in memory? Then you have believed in vain you have believed for nothing that’s what vain means.

Lets go into (James 2: (v.14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? (v.15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of a daily food, (v.16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? If someone came to you hungry and needed clothes and all you told them was peace be unto you, and God bless you, be ye warmed and filled. All you did was give lip service, no works, you didn’t help the problem.

(v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith. (v.18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. True faith goes hand in hand with good works. (v.20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Did you know that? Has anybody ever read this verse to you? How can you, after reading this verse ever say again that we need not work? You can have all the faith you want, but if you have no works to go along with that faith, that faith is in vain, that faith is dead.

(v.21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? We read where Abraham, the father of the faithful showed the Lord his faith by his works. (v.22) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? (v.23) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND IT WAS IMPUTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS: and he was called the friend of God. (v.24) Ye see then how that by works a man is Justified, and not by faith only. Do you see that also?

Do you understand that you need works to go along with that faith; if you love and fear God then you should have no problem obeying his commandments. (v.25) Likewise also was not Ra’-hab the harlot justified by works, when she received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? Ra’-hab showed her faith in God and her fear of God by doing good works. (v.26) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. Take it or leave it, but this is the true uncut word of God. Just as the body is dead when you take away the spirit (breath) so faith is dead if you have no works.

Many reject the law, but it is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good (Romans 7:12) even today. All have sinned (broken the law...Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law (I John 3:4) and the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23).

I'll just leave this here...

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

 

[bro.tan]

Dear bro.tan,
You said:
In Revelation 22: 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

You can't add to the word of God, you have to follow all the Prophets, apostles, even Jesus.
I get it, you've been taught the Roman Christianity way, and as long as you stay on that rode you will do things that's not written in the Bible and use the Bible to justify it.

My understanding only comes from scripture by the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I have no teachers and I associate with no denominations or churches. I was converted in 2005 and left the apostate church system at that time.

In this age, Christ is only harvesting the First Fruits of His harvest of mankind. They are called the Elect/heirs/saints/bride etc. Scripture details the pathway they will travel to salvation. However, salvation will also come to those who were not chosen to be one of the Elect. Their salvation will come to them when Christ judges them in the Lake of Fire (symbol for judgment, not literal fire). They will not have "life during the ages" but they will still be saved and will enter the Kingdom of Heaven at the end of the final age. This truth is typed by the Feast of Ingathering (Tabernacles).

Exo 23:16 And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits (the Elect of this age) of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field: and the feast of ingathering (the rest of mankind in the final age), which is in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field.

The verse below types the time when Christ will have mercy upon the lost of the final age:

John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast (the Feast of Ingathering/Tabernacles), Jesus stood and cried, saying, if any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Below is the same call to the lost in the final age but it adds the Elect to the call:

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

The verse below applies to Christ's judgment of the lost in the final age:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Christ will not omit mercy and faith when He judges the lost of the final age. After He gives them the faith they need, the pathway will be made "straight" for Christ to come to them and give them the Early & Latter Rains of the Spirit. After the new child of God is born, the child will be gathered to heaven. The child of the devil will remain in the Lake of Fire and will be destroyed (this satisfies justice and the penalty of sin). This spiritual process is called conversion. The Elect experience conversion in this age and the rest of mankind will experience it in the final age. This is when this scripture below will be testified to be true:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Joel chapter 2 shows the judgment of the lost in the final age. This chapter begins by showing the Elect (the Bride) riding with Christ in judgment over the lost. The Elect believers are Christ's army. But before the lost have "perished", Christ will have pity (mercy) upon them (v. 18) and give them the Early and Latter Rains for their salvation (v. 23).

Is your judgment like the judgment displayed by the Pharisees or does your judgment also include justice, mercy and faith like Christ's judgment does?

By the end of the final age, Christ will have accomplished the mission His Father gave Him:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

If Christ were to fail to save even one person, Christ would be "missing the mark" (sin) that His Father gave Him.

Have you ever really considered the scriptures I have presented above or are you only seeing what you want to see?

Joe

Again you teaching Roman Christianity, that' another believe system. Paul say in 2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. Now any Christian in their right mind wouldn’t dare say that it’s okay to steal, kill or commit adultery or break any of the other seven commandments. But when it comes to the fourth commandment, people avoid it like a plague! They are either uninformed about which day is the Sabbath day of the God of the Bible or they are just following the tradition of religion that was passed down through the family or maybe they have let some preacher give them other excuses for ignoring God’s true day of worship

When Jesus (the true Lamb of God) was sacrificed, he removed our past sins, not future sin. If we accept Jesus as our sin offering, we are required to repent and get baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS ("there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved..."(Acts 4: 12). This is our last chance Brothers and Sister.

To repent means to turn from our sinful ways and start obeying God's law. The water baptism signifies the washing away of our past sins. After repenting and being baptized in the name of Jesus it would be foolish for us to turn around and willingly break God's commandments. If we make an honest mistake Jesus can help us, but if we sin willingly, look out! "...there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation..." (Hebrews 10:26-27). Paul says in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin.

Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord.

 

[bro.tan]

I'll just leave this here...

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

That's true, but it don't stop there, thats the beginning. Jesus says in (Matt. 7:21-23) (v.21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father, which is in heaven. You mean you must do more than call on the name of the Lord to enter into the kingdom of heaven? (Which will be set up on this earth)? (v.22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? (v.23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Now this is not the harlot, the thief, or the murder, these are religious people; some had the power to cast out devils. And what did they put before the Lord? Their works! It’s obvious that their iniquity overrode their wonderful works. But they put their works on the table before the Lord, that’s what you are going to be judged by, your works!

 

[FaithWillDo]

(v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Dear bro.tan,
You have built your foundation with "works" mixed with faith. With this faulty foundation, you cannot build upon it. That is the reason you can't accept the verses I am posting which contradict your beliefs. Until your foundation is destroyed and replaced with the foundation of "Truth" (Christ), these scriptures I post will hold little value to you.

Paul said that even mixing in only one work (like circumcision) with faith will cause a believer (who has only the Early Rain of the Spirit) to fall from grace. When this happens, the believer will remain under the Law and a debtor to keep the whole Law - which cannot be done my man. When a person realizes this truth, it will lead them to Christ and the New Covenant. Under the New Covenant, Christ will do 100% of the work.

Christ will do His work within (spiritually) the person by giving them both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. With the Spirit indwelling the person, the Spirit will cause them to "will and do of His good pleasure". The works the person does are the works of Christ and are not their own. It is by this spiritual process that all mankind will be made into children of God who will keep the Lord's commandments. This is the only way it can be done. For this reason, mankind will have nothing to boast about concerning their salvation.

As for what James said, you are misunderstanding him. When a believer is given the Early Rain of the Spirit, the Spirit is only given in "measure" (a small amount).

Job 37:6 For he saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth; likewise to the small rain (Early Rain), and to the great rain (Latter Rain) of his strength.

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself (represents the spirit of anti-Christ), and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

And likewise, the faith that comes from this small amount of the Spirit is also given in "measure". For this reason, the believer will remain carnally minded and spiritually blind. Because of these weakness, Satan will quickly deceive them and cause them to follow His "another gospel". When this happens, the new believer's faith will die and they will not be able to produce any fruit.

The fruit that Christ requires is the fruit of the Spirit (love, joy, peace, etc.). When a believer is converted, they will produce the fruit of the Spirit naturally because Christ has changed their heart and mind to match His heart and mind. In other words, Christ is reigning from within them causing them to "will and do of His good pleasure". Everything that the converted believer does will be based upon this truth. This is what produces their "works of faith" and what causes them to love God and their neighbors. When they do this, they are keeping the commandments of God.

James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

And as I said, it happens naturally because the converted believer is changed from within.

For this reason, John said this:

1John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

And Christ said this:

Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

My love for you is why I am willing to spend time with you on this forum, hoping it will benefit you (as the Lord wills) in some way.

Since all believers in the "churches" have only received the Early Rain of the Spirit, they are all unconverted and spiritually blind. Because of their blindness, Satan has no trouble in deceiving them. Christ teaches that the pathway to salvation for the Elect goes THROUGH the apostate church. No one who receives the Early Rain of the Spirit can avoid becoming apostate. It happened to me and it happens to everyone. However, after a fallen away Elect believer receives the Latter Rain of the Spirit (the baptism), they will come out of the apostate church system and be restored to Christ. This happens because their faith is increased and their spiritual blindness is healed when they receive the Latter Rain. Only then are they able to "see" the Abomination of Desolation that had previously occurred within themselves (Mat 24:15). Unless a believer has seen the A of D, they are not converted but are still under the deceptions of Satan. That's the nature of being deceived - a person cannot know that they are deceived while it is happening.

When I was converted in 2005, I immediately saw who and what I had become in Satan's apostate church. It really does not matter what denomination of church a person attends because they all mix works with faith (the crooked way and the sin that leads to death). This is the common denominator they all have. But since they are spiritually blind, they are also blown around by every wind of doctrine and unable to find the truth. The loaf of bread they are consuming is fully leavened:

Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

One final point I want to make; when Christ is ready to "come again" (the second coming) to a fallen away Elect believer, He will cause them to pray. This prayer can be for understanding or maybe for more faith - but the answer to that prayer is always the baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain). That is what Christ is teaching here:

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

This scripture is addressed Elect believers who have only received the Early Rain of the Spirit. It is associated with the parable that Christ teaches in verses 5 - 8 about the person who comes to a "friend" (represents Christ) at "midnight" (deepest part of their spiritual blindness) to ask for 3 loaves of bread. The number three represents a spiritual process and bread represents the truth of God. To receive these 3 loafs of bread, Christ says to pray for the Holy Spirit (knock and ask).

If you are hearing the words of Christ above, it is my hope that you will pray this prayer.

This is the same prayer that Paul prayed in Damascus which caused Ananias (represents Christ) to come to him and pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit.

Acts 9:10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord. 11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, 12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight. 13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: 14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. 15 But the Lord said unto him, go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. 17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. 19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened.

In this story, notice that Paul was staying with a man named Judas (a type for the man of sin who Paul had become). Also, to reach Paul, Ananias had to travel on a street named "Straight". When Ananias arrived, the scales fell off Paul's eyes (spiritual blindness healed) and Paul "arose" (salvation).

This event that Paul experienced was the second coming of Christ when Christ comes to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

Again you teaching Roman Christianity, that' another believe system. Paul say in 2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. Now any Christian in their right mind wouldn’t dare say that it’s okay to steal, kill or commit adultery or break any of the other seven commandments. But when it comes to the fourth commandment, people avoid it like a plague! They are either uninformed about which day is the Sabbath day of the God of the Bible or they are just following the tradition of religion that was passed down through the family or maybe they have let some preacher give them other excuses for ignoring God’s true day of worship

When Jesus (the true Lamb of God) was sacrificed, he removed our past sins, not future sin. If we accept Jesus as our sin offering, we are required to repent and get baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS ("there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved..."(Acts 4: 12). This is our last chance Brothers and Sister.

To repent means to turn from our sinful ways and start obeying God's law. The water baptism signifies the washing away of our past sins. After repenting and being baptized in the name of Jesus it would be foolish for us to turn around and willingly break God's commandments. If we make an honest mistake Jesus can help us, but if we sin willingly, look out! "...there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation..." (Hebrews 10:26-27). Paul says in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin.

Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord.

Dear bro.tan,
I just wanted to make some comments about this statement of yours:

To repent means to turn from our sinful ways and start obeying God's law. The water baptism signifies the washing away of our past sins. After repenting and being baptized in the name of Jesus it would be foolish for us to turn around and willingly break God's commandments. If we make an honest mistake Jesus can help us, but if we sin willingly, look out! "...there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation..." (Hebrews 10:26-27). Paul says in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin.

To repent means to repent from our "works". You are misunderstanding what Paul was teaching in Hebrews. You need to read the whole 10th chapter of Hebrews again. Paul is explaining the difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. To "sin willingly" is referring to adding our own works (Old Covenant) to the work of Christ (New Covenant). When a believer mixes in their own works with faith, there is "no more sacrifice for sins".

When John the Baptist came with the call to repent, he was likewise calling for the Nation of Israel to repent of their works that they were doing under the Old Covenant of Law.

Paul also said this earlier in Hebrews:

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God...

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Repentance from dead works is the FOUNDATION of our faith toward Christ. After a believer has received the Early Rain of the Spirit and has repented of their works, it is impossible to renew them if they should "fall away" from their original repentance from works. When a believer mixes in their own works with faith, they have committed the one and only sin that leads to death. Once the believer has spiritually died, they cannot be renewed to Christ simply by repenting of works again. The solution: Christ must "come again" and pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit.

Because mixing in works with faith is the only sin that leads to death, it is the sin that Satan uses to kill the saints. That sin is what Satan's "another gospel" is founded upon and is why all apostate churches teach and follow it. Any other sin that a believer may commit is covered by the blood of Christ under the New Covenant - but if a believer commits the sin that leads to death, they will no longer be covered under the New Covenant. They have fallen back to the Old Covenant of man's works.

Your misunderstanding of repentance is causing you to greatly misunderstand the New Covenant.

Joe

 

[Bob Estey]

Surely most Christian loves God the Father Almighty! Surely most Christians love their Savior, Jesus Christ! But does every Christian wants to live by (Luke:4:4) And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

The reference point for Christians is the Bible, the revelation of God to mankind and source book for God's commands to us, known as the divine Law. God's laws are holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good (Romans 7:12). They are the instructions for the way we should conduct our lives. Yet throughout history we see people trying to side-step the laws of God. Even today many Christian churches do not place as much emphasis on observing God's law as they do on ‘love’. But the fact is, we need both!

Jesus the Lawgiver

Writes the apostle John, (1John: 4:20) If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? As we can see, God condemns those who claim to love Him while they hate their brothers. Again in, (1John 3:14) it states We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Such statements we need to seriously take to heart especially in these days when we see communities dividing into factions.

Concerning the observance of the Law we find the following, (1John 2:4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. How can anyone claim to know God yet teach that it is not necessary to obey His laws?

Heart Religion

Many fail to understand that the `New Covenant' includes a better way to implement the same set of laws that were given on Mt. Sinai, the Ten Commandments:

(Jer.31: 31-33) (v.31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: (v.32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: (v.33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Notice that the law was not prophesied to be done away, but rather to be “put into our hearts and minds.”

How does the Bible (or God) define "death"?

 

[MatthewG]

There are those who believe that because Christ overcame sin and kept the law that now we don't have to keep God's laws. But what do the Scriptures tell us? Here's what Jesus said:

(Mat.5:17-19) (v.17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (v.18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (v.19) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus came to fulfill, to fill to the full (Gk. plereo). He fulfilled many prophecies - but not all. There are many in the Book of Revelation still to be fulfilled. There is still some in the Old Testament that hasn’t been fulfilled. Jesus at His first coming came to fulfilled that which was written for Him to fulfill at His first coming. He has NOT fulfilled everything that was written for Him to do. And He kept all of the Law that he could - but that was not all! He was not a Temple priest. He was not a woman. He could not keep the laws intended only for priests and women. No matter how you think about Jesus, there is still much to be fulfilled! So not even the smallest part has yet passed from God's Law!

Jesus made it quite clear that anyone who would break even the least commandment and teach people to do so would be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. The fact is, God did not find fault with His laws but rather with the people who did not obey them. (Heb.8:7-8) (v.7) For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.(v.8) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: The writer of Hebrews then proceeds to quote Jeremiah 31:31-34, quoted above. Under the New Covenant we now have a living High Priest, Jesus Christ, who can make intercession for us. One who was tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. He is an intercessor who understands our weaknesses because He lived as a human being.

Just desired to share some of my insights with you, which you may agree or disagree with.

From my perspective, which could be wrong. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness. Indeed are the Laws, given in the old testament, a guide to be learned from. While one allows Yahava to write on ones mind and heart, in having a relationship with him. This is one of the ways that Yahava is able to speak though when he speaks to the nation of Israel at the time there was a material covenant agreement on Yahava with himself, in which those things which are spoken of in the old testament there was a promised coming destruction of that age, which would end that age entirely.

What one decides to between themselves and Yahava is between them and Yahava. Yahava by the spirit can speak to people in the nudging of emotions from with in you, and your conscious. Which can be difficult to understand, especially if you have someone not promoting the freedom which the Spirit brings forth of where the Lord is, there is freedom.

Freedom? To much responsibility there are some whom would say. Freedom to be able love Yahava, and to love other people. That is what it comes down too, right friend?

How can one be free from the bondage of the madding voices of the world and it's opinions, the darkness, and the seducing spirits of the world which choke out the life of the spirit within a believer (sometimes severely) even walking away from Yahava.

Jesus the Light of the World
(1 John 1:5–10)

12Once again, Jesus spoke to the people and said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows Me will never walk in the darkness, but will have the light of life.”

13So the Pharisees said to Him, “You are testifying about Yourself; Your testimony is not valid.”

14Jesus replied, “Even if I testify about Myself, My testimony is valid, because I know where I came from and where I am going. But you do not know where I came from or where I am going.

15You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one.

16But even if I do judge, My judgment is true, because I am not alone; I am with the Father who sent Me.e

17Even in your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid.f

18I am One who testifies about Myself, and the Father, who sent Me, also testifies about Me.”

19“Where is Your Father?” they asked Him.

“You do not know Me or My Father,” Jesus answered. “If you knew Me, you would know My Father as well.”

20He spoke these words while teaching in the temple courts, near the treasury. Yet no one seized Him, because His hour had not yet come.

21Again He said to them, “I am going away, and you will look for Me, but you will die in your sin. Where I am going, you cannot come.”

22So the Jews began to ask, “Will He kill Himself, since He says, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come’?”

23Then He told them, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.

24That is why I told you that you would die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

25“Who are You?” they asked.

“Just what I have been telling you from the beginning,” Jesus replied.

26“I have much to say about you and much to judge. But the One who sent Me is truthful, and what I have heard from Him, I tell the world.”

27They did not understand that He was telling them about the Father.

28So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing on My own, but speak exactly what the Father has taught Me.

29He who sent Me is with Me. He has not left Me alone, because I always do what pleases Him.”

The Truth Will Set You Free
(2 John 1:4–6)

30As Jesus spoke these things, many believed in Him. 31So He said to the Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, you are truly My disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

33“We are Abraham’s descendants,” they answered. “We have never been slaves to anyone. How can You say we will be set free?”

34Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.

35A slave is not a permanent member of the family, but a son belongs to it forever.

36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

37I know you are Abraham’s descendants, but you are trying to kill Me because My word has no place within you.

38I speak of what I have seen in the presence of the Father, and you do what you have heard from your father.”