Were We Alive In Heaven Before We Were Born?

[Ziggy]

I dont understand what you're asking here.



Sure I have. The boy was possessed.



All the queers. They use all those letters and I dont know what they all mean and cant remember them.

Lesbian, Gay, Bi Sexual, Transgender, Queer, Intersexual, Asexual, +++

Good luck with the. and the rest. I got lost between queer and intersexual.
LGBTQIA, plus.

I'm still working on DEI.

They writing a whole new language brother. I'll stick with cursive, that will confuse all the new generation.
Have to learn to write in code, the old and the new.
LOL

not funny.
Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

I think it's refered to as the guf?

I have to check it out.

Guf​

Guf is a Hebrew word, meaning "body". In Jewish mysticism the Chamber of Guf, also called the Otzar, is the Treasury of Souls, located in the Seventh Heaven. Wikipedia

Is the concept of the guff biblical? What is the guff?​

The Talmud asserts that the guff is a place where souls are kept before they are sent to Earth to be born as human beings. According to the Talmud, Messiah will not appear until the guff is empty—until every soul has been born a person.

Is it biblical?
I don't know..
I just remember it from a movie eith Demi Moore and Nicholas Cage.
The Seventh Sign maybe?
I forget.
Hugs

So now I'm thinking about Job and the days the sons of God came and stood before the throne and Satan came in among them.

God prepared this body he called Job. I think it's almost ironic that Job had a job to do.

Now God gave power over Job's body to Satan to do with as he pleased, but he couldn't take his life, that belonged to God.

So I'm nearing a cliff here.. hang on..

Is the body God prepared for Satan himself to rule over, or possess, however you want to say it.
And is it by Satan's own mind and his own thoughts that bring all this calamity on the body of Job?

But God gave Job his Spirit. And it is this Spirit that is being tried by the flesh. The self-righteous, the plagues, the sorrow, the death wish even, I would of been better if I had died from my mother's womb.
Was this God's spirit speaking or was it Satan's spirit speaking through the flesh of Job?


After Satan has his way with this body prepared for him. God has another body he has prepared, like unto the first only without sin or Satan's rule over it.
And God blessed Job for overcoming, and how did Job overcome?
He repented in dust and ashes and confessed his sin, that he thought he knew God but was mistaken.
And God gave everything to Job ( the new life) that was given to the body Satan had possesion of (death), and also doubled that which he had before.

Just thinking..
Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

Mar 10:29
And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
Mar 10:30
But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

You have to leave it all behind, and follow Jesus and his testimony.
You have to leave your house, this could be so many things.. it could be whatever you put your trust, hope, faith, assurances, belongings, treasures.. everything you believe in, whether they be religions or education, or idols of any kind, everything behind.
And the moment you begin to remove their hold on you, the world begins to attack you.
Most people don't want to walk away from things they have become familiar with even if they are not beneficial for the salvation of the spirit.
Some stay in bad marriages, some stay in wrong churches, some stay in wrong traditions and beliefs.
All these things are the treasures they lie up for themselves or one could say, the works of their own hands.
A lot of things are passed on from generation to generation like hope chests in the attic, that to depart from them would be like throwing everything away, great loss, which would bring great sorrow.
And nobody wants to lose those things they love and have held onto for generations.
See how hard it is to even change ones political party. Not because they agree or disagree, but because it's the way it's been for a very long time, and they are afraid of ridicule by family, friends, society, if they even breath they are thinking of changing direction.
I bet the early church went through all kinds of persecutions. Whether your coming out from under Jerusalem and their laws, or Rome and it's laws.
Whether Jew or Gentile they all and we all have to face the same tribulations and trials.

I hear Paul.. Through much tribulation...

Jesus promises, If we leave everything behind, let it go, be dead to it, it's gone gone gone..
And we follow him and the path he sets before us, that all these things that we thought were so precious before, he will give us better than that and even multiply it without measure.

It's a hard crossroad indeed. But Paul says that this is our reasonable sacrifice for him, for all the sacrifice he gave to us, even his life.
And it is this sacrificing everything behind us that we walk forward into a new day, a new way, which only leads to peace and joy in Him.

This to me is the intention God had when he created the Sabbath day for man to rest in with Him.

Hugs

 

[MA2444]

Lesbian, Gay, Bi Sexual, Transgender, Queer, Intersexual, Asexual, +++

Good luck with the. and the rest. I got lost between queer and intersexual.
LGBTQIA, plus.

I'm still working on DEI.

They writing a whole new language brother. I'll stick with cursive, that will confuse all the new generation.
Have to learn to write in code, the old and the new.
LOL

not funny.
Hugs

Nah I'm not learning their language. They have nothing for me. Even if I only learned their lettering system they might take that as something respectful and I wouldnt want any misunderstanding, Lol!

And your right, it aint funny.

 

[St. SteVen]

The record we have does not support this view. It sounds like something ingested from paganism.

Yes, we don't find the term "the womb of heaven".
But where does our spirit come from?
The breath of life awakened Adam.
When the breath left, so did his spirit depart.

Where did it come from, and where did it go (return)?

Ecclesiastes 12:7 NIV
and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

They use all those letters and I dont know what they all mean and cant remember them.

Oh, I see. LGBTQ+
Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transsexual, Queer +

WWJD with LGBTQ?

Christians tend to treat LGBTQ as if it is a singular thing. It's not. It's a very complex subject that the church has, for the most part, swept under the rug. Those who have stepped up to be inclusive have taken the heat for it. And there is even a broad spectrum of how inclusion can play out...

www.christianityboard.com

/

 

[St. SteVen]

The record we have does not support this view. It sounds like something ingested from paganism.

Found this online. For what it's worth.

A concept of pre-existence was advanced by Origen, a second and third-century church father.[9] Origen believed that each human soul was created by God[10] at some time prior to conception. He wrote that already "one of [his] predecessors" had interpreted the Scripture to teach pre-existence, which seems to be a reference to the Jewish philosopher Philo.[11]

Some scholars, including John Behr and Marguerite Harl, argue that this idea, condemned by the church, may have been taught by some later Origenists, but that Origen himself was orthodox in this regard and "never used the terms 'pre-existence of souls' or 'pre-existent intellects', and that Origen was talking about realities outside of time and not about any concept of temporality before our time.[12][13] Such orthodox understandings of Origen also show up in Maximus the Confessor and in the idea of an atemporal fall as taught by Christian theologians Sergei Bulgakov and David Bentley Hart.[14][15][16][17]

Church Fathers Tertullian and Jerome held to traducianism and creationism, respectively, and pre-existence was condemned as heresy in the Second Council of Constantinople in AD 553.[18]

Origen referenced Romans 9:11-14 as evidence for his position:

For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.[citation needed]

Origen argued that God could not love Jacob and hate Esau until Jacob had done something worthy of love and Esau had done something worthy of hatred and so the passage means only that Jacob and Esau had not yet done good or evil in this life and their conduct before this life was the reason why Esau would serve Jacob.[19]

Origen also referenced Jeremiah 1:5:

Before I formed thee in the belly, I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

He brought forth a question:

How could his soul and its images be formed along with his body, who, before he was created in the womb, is said to be known to God, and was sanctified by Him before his birth?[20]

Those who reject pre-existence, which would be every Christian denomination that accepts the conclusions of the Second Council of Constantinople (i.e., all Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians and many Protestants), simply see Jeremiah 1:5 as another passage about God's foreknowledge. This ecumenical Council explicitly stated "If anyone asserts the fabulous pre-existence of souls, and shall assert the monstrous restoration which follows from it: let him be anathema."[21]

Source

/

 

[quietthinker]

Found this online. For what it's worth.

A concept of pre-existence was advanced by Origen, a second and third-century church father.[9] Origen believed that each human soul was created by God[10] at some time prior to conception. He wrote that already "one of [his] predecessors" had interpreted the Scripture to teach pre-existence, which seems to be a reference to the Jewish philosopher Philo.[11]

Some scholars, including John Behr and Marguerite Harl, argue that this idea, condemned by the church, may have been taught by some later Origenists, but that Origen himself was orthodox in this regard and "never used the terms 'pre-existence of souls' or 'pre-existent intellects', and that Origen was talking about realities outside of time and not about any concept of temporality before our time.[12][13] Such orthodox understandings of Origen also show up in Maximus the Confessor and in the idea of an atemporal fall as taught by Christian theologians Sergei Bulgakov and David Bentley Hart.[14][15][16][17]

Church Fathers Tertullian and Jerome held to traducianism and creationism, respectively, and pre-existence was condemned as heresy in the Second Council of Constantinople in AD 553.[18]

Origen referenced Romans 9:11-14 as evidence for his position:




Origen argued that God could not love Jacob and hate Esau until Jacob had done something worthy of love and Esau had done something worthy of hatred and so the passage means only that Jacob and Esau had not yet done good or evil in this life and their conduct before this life was the reason why Esau would serve Jacob.[19]

Origen also referenced Jeremiah 1:5:




He brought forth a question:




Those who reject pre-existence, which would be every Christian denomination that accepts the conclusions of the Second Council of Constantinople (i.e., all Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians and many Protestants), simply see Jeremiah 1:5 as another passage about God's foreknowledge. This ecumenical Council explicitly stated "If anyone asserts the fabulous pre-existence of souls, and shall assert the monstrous restoration which follows from it: let him be anathema."[21]

Source

/

Far far too complicated. Complications arise from a muddled and erroneous premise. If any of you have seen the comedy 'The God's must be Crazy' then you will understand how an erroneous view distorts the logic and how it is rationalised.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

They call it the womb of heaven where the spirits await their bodies at birth.

That's a fresh steaming hot load of horse hockey!

Of course the reason you post NO scripture proving this is because it's not biblical
and is nothing more than someone's imagination which is not based in reality in any way

Why do you think this is not possible?

It's not scriptural... it's nothing more than speculation.

Scripture talks about spirits without a body wandering in dry places

Yes, these are demons spirits.

I think that the spiritual realm and how it works is the same for good or bad spirits.

Er no.... it's only speaking of evil spirits.,... those in opposition to the Lord.

Those in right standing with the Lord lack for nothing and life is always good!

It sounds like something ingested from paganism.

It may have come from those SDA peoples... they're pretty freaky deaky

 

[MA2444]

Oh, I see. LGBTQ+
Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transsexual, Queer +

WWJD with LGBTQ?

Christians tend to treat LGBTQ as if it is a singular thing. It's not. It's a very complex subject that the church has, for the most part, swept under the rug. Those who have stepped up to be inclusive have taken the heat for it. And there is even a broad spectrum of how inclusion can play out...

www.christianityboard.com

/

I dont want to even learn that stuff. Dont want to know it. It might get on me and have a nasty residue. Eww!

And it's prolly like everythig else on this planet, addictive. So we must reject the very thought of it and take that captive to Christ...and show the guy the door!

 

[MA2444]

Er no.... it's only speaking of evil spirits.,... those in opposition to the Lord.

Those in right standing with the Lord lack for nothing and life is always good!

You are right. Good catch!

 

[St. SteVen]

I dont want to even learn that stuff. Dont want to know it. It might get on me and have a nasty residue. Eww!

LOL
Did Jesus love LGBTQ people enough to die for them?
Perhaps we need to treat them like human beings as well.

And it's prolly like everythig else on this planet, addictive. So we must reject the very thought of it and take that captive to Christ...and show the guy the door!

--- PARODY ---

Church Greeter: Welcome to church!
Church Visitor: Thanks, my first time here.
Church Greeter: Great, we are glad you are here. One question...
Church Visitor: Uh, okay. What is it?
Church Greeter: Are you LGBTQIA+ ?
Church Visitor: Um... that's not one thing, that's at least seven things. ???
Church Greeter: We just ask that you leave that at the door when you enter this holy place.
Church Visitor: Seriously?
Church Greeter: Yes, the Bible tells us that those things are evil, we want no evil here.
Church Visitor: You do know that there is a HUGE difference between LGBQ and TIA, right?
Church Greeter: Nope, all one thing to us. Sinful, very sinful.
Church Visitor: You can argue that LGBQ is not genetic, but clearly TIA are genetic.
Church Greeter: Sorry, I'm not studied in these things.
Church Visitor: Obviously.
Church Greeter: Are you LGBTQIA+, or not?
Church Visitor: I'm pretty sure this isn't going to work. Goodbye.

Indeed. What's wrong with this picture?

gay christians?

GRACE ambassador said: Thus, His Precious BLOOD Is ALL-Sufficient For my TOTAL Forgiveness For ALL Eternity! NOsas teaching Denies This ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ Wonderful Sound Doctrine In God's Word Of Truth!! Since all sins are already forgiven past present and future, why do so...

www.christianityboard.com

/

 

[St. SteVen]

I dont want to even learn that stuff. Dont want to know it. It might get on me and have a nasty residue. Eww!

Cooties! ???



/

 

[St. SteVen]

Far far too complicated.

Okay...

Where does our spirit come from?

The breath of life awakened Adam.
When the breath left, so did his spirit depart.
Where did it come from, and where did it go (return)?

Ecclesiastes 12:7 NIV
and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

/

 

[MA2444]

LOL
Did Jesus love LGBTQ people enough to die for them?
Perhaps we need to treat them like human beings as well.


--- PARODY ---

Church Greeter: Welcome to church!
Church Visitor: Thanks, my first time here.
Church Greeter: Great, we are glad you are here. One question...
Church Visitor: Uh, okay. What is it?
Church Greeter: Are you LGBTQIA+ ?
Church Visitor: Um... that's not one thing, that's at least seven things. ???
Church Greeter: We just ask that you leave that at the door when you enter this holy place.
Church Visitor: Seriously?
Church Greeter: Yes, the Bible tells us that those things are evil, we want no evil here.
Church Visitor: You do know that there is a HUGE difference between LGBQ and TIA, right?
Church Greeter: Nope, all one thing to us. Sinful, very sinful.
Church Visitor: You can argue that LGBQ is not genetic, but clearly TIA are genetic.
Church Greeter: Sorry, I'm not studied in these things.
Church Visitor: Obviously.
Church Greeter: Are you LGBTQIA+, or not?
Church Visitor: I'm pretty sure this isn't going to work. Goodbye.

Indeed. What's wrong with this picture?

gay christians?

GRACE ambassador said: Thus, His Precious BLOOD Is ALL-Sufficient For my TOTAL Forgiveness For ALL Eternity! NOsas teaching Denies This ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ Wonderful Sound Doctrine In God's Word Of Truth!! Since all sins are already forgiven past present and future, why do so...

www.christianityboard.com

/

They need a new church greeter? I would have handled that much differently.

 

[MA2444]

Cooties! ???

View attachment 42506

/

Now you're getting it. I mean, I never really heard demonic possession described as cooties before but, it does fit the bill for cooties doesn't it? Good point Brother!

 

[Ziggy]

LOL
Did Jesus love LGBTQ people enough to die for them?
Perhaps we need to treat them like human beings as well.


--- PARODY ---

Church Greeter: Welcome to church!
Church Visitor: Thanks, my first time here.
Church Greeter: Great, we are glad you are here. One question...
Church Visitor: Uh, okay. What is it?
Church Greeter: Are you LGBTQIA+ ?
Church Visitor: Um... that's not one thing, that's at least seven things. ???
Church Greeter: We just ask that you leave that at the door when you enter this holy place.
Church Visitor: Seriously?
Church Greeter: Yes, the Bible tells us that those things are evil, we want no evil here.
Church Visitor: You do know that there is a HUGE difference between LGBQ and TIA, right?
Church Greeter: Nope, all one thing to us. Sinful, very sinful.
Church Visitor: You can argue that LGBQ is not genetic, but clearly TIA are genetic.
Church Greeter: Sorry, I'm not studied in these things.
Church Visitor: Obviously.
Church Greeter: Are you LGBTQIA+, or not?
Church Visitor: I'm pretty sure this isn't going to work. Goodbye.

Indeed. What's wrong with this picture?

gay christians?

GRACE ambassador said: Thus, His Precious BLOOD Is ALL-Sufficient For my TOTAL Forgiveness For ALL Eternity! NOsas teaching Denies This ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ Wonderful Sound Doctrine In God's Word Of Truth!! Since all sins are already forgiven past present and future, why do so...

www.christianityboard.com

/

Repentance.

Honestly, I don't care what you think you are or not, God knows. And if it matches the physical body then so be it.
What I am opposed to is the flaunting and parading specially around the children and indoctrinating them that it's ok to cut off your body parts to fit your mind.

I don't have to be any of those things, so I am not. And God will judge those who are.
I am not God. I don't know all his plans.
But they are here for a reason. And maybe it is to improve ourselves by.
Everything is inward. Look at their heart. But before you do, look at your own.
Charity not of others but of ourselves. Because we will be judged according to how we treat others.

I't an interesting new temptaion in this age to point our fingers at everyone else's sin. Without first judging to see if we have any evil thoughts in our selves.
Jesus says don't do after their works. But they have hearts too. And God will find a purpose for them.
In the meantime, keep yourselves pure.
Hugs

 

[quietthinker]

Okay...

Where does our spirit come from?

The breath of life awakened Adam.
When the breath left, so did his spirit depart.
Where did it come from, and where did it go (return)?

Ecclesiastes 12:7 NIV
and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

/

The word 'breath' and 'spirit' are used interchangeably. There is no seperate conscious entity called 'spirit' just as there is no separate conscious entity called 'soul'. Folk get themselves in a tangled mess when these terms are given something seperate and other to the whole person.
We are souls with the spirit (breath) of life, ie we are living souls that are subject to death when the life force (the spirit, the breath) is cancelled.

 

[Mr E]

Rom 12:18
If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.


HUGS

A great verse for commuting in So Cal.

 

[St. SteVen]

The word 'breath' and 'spirit' are used interchangeably. There is no seperate conscious entity called 'spirit' just as there is no separate conscious entity called 'soul'. Folk get themselves in a tangled mess when these terms are given something seperate and other to the whole person.
We are souls with the spirit (breath) of life, ie we are living souls that are subject to death when the life force (the spirit, the breath) is cancelled.

Wouldn't that mean that we don't have a spirit in the afterlife if we give up the spirit (breath) at physical death?

How does that work in your view?

/