Once saved, always saved is a myth.

[MatthewG]

The IGNORANCE of Believing God SAVES a mans soul….and then Revokes his salvation is ludicrous on it’ face.

No mans SOUL, BECOMES “SAVED”….
UNtIL AFTER A BODILY DEATH

and WHAT Body….physically DEAD OR accounted “IN Lords Record Book of LIFE”…as having Bodily Died UNTO GOD (crucified with CHIRST JESUS” BODY) whereby NO NAME can be blotted out….

Can that physically (bodily) dead man or spiritually accounted dead man…commit sin against God and LOSE his Salvation.

Probably too deep, but none the less the TRUTH.

Jesus said so, he spoke of the unforgiveable sin.

Matthew 12:22-32
Revised Standard Version
Jesus and Beelzebul
22 Then a blind and dumb demoniac was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the dumb man spoke and saw. 23 And all the people were amazed, and said, “Can this be the Son of David?” 24 But when the Pharisees heard it they said, “It is only by Be-el′zebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.” 25 Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand; 26 and if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand? 27 And if I cast out demons by Be-el′zebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29 Or how can one enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. 30 He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. 31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Mark 3:28-30
Revised Standard Version
28 “Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”— 30 for they had said, “He has an unclean spirit.”

Luke 12:8-10
8 “And I tell you, every one who acknowledges me before men, the Son of man also will acknowledge before the angels of God; 9 but he who denies me before men will be denied before the angels of God. 10 And every one who speaks a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

There are also the other scripture shared prior from Hebrews 3, and Hebrews 6, concerning to not turn away from the Living God, and not to have evil, unbeliving hearts, that all corelates with what is being said here by Jesus. If you are just going to off play Jesus words, with what is written "It is said because he has an unclean spirit", but not paying attention to the heart subject matter at this point in time you are gonna miss the seriousness of those who do not believe, and they did not desire anything of God, and the Pharisees at the time desired to destroy Jesus, and murder him. There are people who can be faithful, and turn, and there are people who have turned to become faithful in repentence, however those who do not desire anything with Yahavah, the living God, God hands them over to their own desires and lust according to Paul. Therefore, people can fall away, be a faithful person, or a person can come and fall in love with the Lord Yeshua and be set free of the bondage of the flesh which bounds us all which the Spirit causes freedom from it's passions which should be nailed up with the Lord, and then we raise again with the Lord and walk in the Lord in faith, to choose to do the will of Yahvah, over our own will. That is how serious it gets to. I do not think Jesus was kidding when he talked about there is no way to jump over the fence, because you have to come in and through the gate, and some people walk out of the gate. It seems like an impossiblitity to say it is impossible to not choose to leave the gates of the fields, if Angels could leave their own dominion which they resided over, and Adam and Eve could have told GOd about that snake in the Garden too, but they choose not to.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

It was your own implication

It was YOUR words I quoted.

I only require what the holy scriptures say.

Again, why are you being dishonest?

 

[Taken]

It was YOUR words I quoted.

I only require what the holy scriptures say.

Again, why are you being dishonest?

You said…

There is no scripture that says “you are saved forever”

So what? Those are YOUR WORDS….and I don’t see ANY of your words QUOTED in Scripture!

That’s dishonest? LOL pfff

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I believe when the Lord God SAYS FOR EVER, He does not Lie

So what? Those are YOUR WORDS…

When did the Lord say “FOR EVER” with regards to salvation?

Stop the silly games.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Okay, well thank you anyway, for your thoughts on what you believe concerning the subject once saved always saved. I hope that you have a good night and rest in the Lord Jesus Christ. It may have been my fault. Perhaps other people may desire to comment on the subject, any further than what has already been discussed already concerning it. God loves each of us equally, and God has no favorites out of the bunch in my opinion. Jesus came and returned and captured the bride saving them, and today, all people wander in the Garden of Eden spiritually. Some spiritually dead, some spiritually alive. Choosing to partake of the tree of life, and all choose whether or not to choose the tree of knowledge of good and evil. God is spirit, and Jesus the Son of God said his FAther looks for people to worship him in spirit and truth. That is good things to go on, in faith trusting him as the one whom gives all that we need to be sustained in this life, opposed the opposition the fleshly way, which is to become dead to.

Matthew,

I am happy to discuss the matter you raise I have a different take on it...

First off it is easy to confuse loosing blessings in life and loosing salvation - two different things.

Second the audience hearing the NT writings were a mix of elect and others not in the faith.

Third the indwelling presence of God includes the Spirit of the Fear of the Lord promised by Jeremiah for those in the New Covenant to come. This aspect of God's presence seals the believer against renouncing Jesus and losing salvation.

Fourth the Elect were chosen to stand and be faithful before the beginning of time - He foreknew who would remain, and sealed that Choice even before they were born.

The elect can fall into sin and be restored, and it is His Righteousness that prevails for the elect in judgement, but rewards in eternity can be lost.

A truly born again believer gives up their 'free will' preferring His will to theirs to be done (sound familiar - isn't that in the Lord's prayer?) That gives God the right to over-rule individual choices that threaten communion with Him.

However the burning question is - are we in a church age when somehow real faith is rare because Christian life has drifted away from the central message of Jesus because it is not understood or preached or lived in many churches.

 

[BlessedPeace]

It was YOUR words I quoted.

I only require what the holy scriptures say.

Again, why are you being dishonest?

I think if you only require what the scriptures say,any Christian required this,there would not be a divide in the church.

Because scripture,old and new testimonies of ,by,God, tell us Jesus was the Father.

If we recall the instructions to Moses,God said to tell Pharaoh, I Am, sent Moses to him.

Jesus referred to himself 7 times as I Am.
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?" John 11:25-26


How many don't believe that? Many. When they insist we will die if we choose to revoke what God said is irrevocable; his free gift of Salvation by his grace .

Those who insist Jesus wasn't God,and Salvation isn't eternal,irrevocable.

What a combination of error that is.

 

[MatthewG]

@Carl Emerson

Not sure why you decided to quote a post posted to someone else.

I believe everyone has been saved from Gods wrath, sin, death, Satan and hell on basis of Christ Jesus, who came and took his bride at the time promised to be taken when they see him, while terror fell upon the rest of the land.

I do not believed that everyone is saved to the Kingdom of God.

That is all there is to know, from my perspective. Many people disregard the outside of the Heavenly Kingdom.

 

[Taken]

Once saved, always saved is a myth.

Uh No!

Heb 10:
14: For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[MatthewG]

I think if you only require what the scriptures say,any Christian required this,there would not be a divide in the church.

Because scripture,old and new testimonies of ,by,God, tell us Jesus was the Father.

If we recall the instructions to Moses,God said to tell Pharaoh, I Am, sent Moses to him.

Jesus referred to himself 7 times as I Am.
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?" John 11:25-26


How many don't believe that? Many. When they insist we will die if we choose to revoke what God said is irrevocable; his free gift of Salvation by his grace .

Those who insist Jesus wasn't God,and Salvation isn't eternal,irrevocable.

What a combination of error that is.

This topic is not concerning whether Jesus was God or not. This is a subject about once saved always saved, being it to the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

[MatthewG]

Once saved, always saved is a myth.

Uh No!

Heb 10:
14: For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Glory to God,
Taken

Taken, you never comment by my length post in order to share with you the unforgivable sin. Did you ignore it?


Jesus said so, he spoke of the unforgiveable sin.

Matthew 12:22-32
Revised Standard Version
Jesus and Beelzebul
22 Then a blind and dumb demoniac was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the dumb man spoke and saw. 23 And all the people were amazed, and said, “Can this be the Son of David?” 24 But when the Pharisees heard it they said, “It is only by Be-el′zebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.” 25 Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand; 26 and if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand? 27 And if I cast out demons by Be-el′zebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29 Or how can one enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. 30 He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. 31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Mark 3:28-30
Revised Standard Version
28 “Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”— 30 for they had said, “He has an unclean spirit.”

Luke 12:8-10
8 “And I tell you, every one who acknowledges me before men, the Son of man also will acknowledge before the angels of God; 9 but he who denies me before men will be denied before the angels of God. 10 And every one who speaks a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

There are also the other scripture shared prior from Hebrews 3, and Hebrews 6, concerning to not turn away from the Living God, and not to have evil, unbeliving hearts, that all corelates with what is being said here by Jesus. If you are just going to off play Jesus words, with what is written "It is said because he has an unclean spirit", but not paying attention to the heart subject matter at this point in time you are gonna miss the seriousness of those who do not believe, and they did not desire anything of God, and the Pharisees at the time desired to destroy Jesus, and murder him. There are people who can be faithful, and turn, and there are people who have turned to become faithful in repentence, however those who do not desire anything with Yahavah, the living God, God hands them over to their own desires and lust according to Paul. Therefore, people can fall away, be a faithful person, or a person can come and fall in love with the Lord Yeshua and be set free of the bondage of the flesh which bounds us all which the Spirit causes freedom from it's passions which should be nailed up with the Lord, and then we raise again with the Lord and walk in the Lord in faith, to choose to do the will of Yahvah, over our own will. That is how serious it gets to. I do not think Jesus was kidding when he talked about there is no way to jump over the fence, because you have to come in and through the gate, and some people walk out of the gate. It seems like an impossiblitity to say it is impossible to not choose to leave the gates of the fields, if Angels could leave their own dominion which they resided over, and Adam and Eve could have told GOd about that snake in the Garden too, but they choose not to.

 

[MatthewG]

sola scriptura doesn’t mean much.

People need to learn the Bible through context, not just here a verse there a verse.

That’s crazy. In the end it looks like Yahavah, allows people on the outside of the kingdom to reside, and due to Jesus he has saved people from sin, death, hell, Satan by his victory.

But not everyone is saved to the Kingdom of Heaven, which is by faith.

Some people walk away from faith.

Sorry if people can’t understand that.

 

[MatthewG]

Once saved, always saved is a myth.

Uh No!

Heb 10:
14: For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Jesus is the only offer that helps you become sanctified. It’s his offering that is forever. With him you become complete. Some take it some do not, in this life or after this life. You can choose to give up your relationship with God, so Can I. I’m not encouraging that, I’m just saying if God is able to give people over to their own lust and everyone makes their choice, then anyone can also fall away from faith who is of faith in God.

This is the same letter where they are still encouraged daily - to not lose or give up faith, or become unbelieving in the heart.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Spyder]

All this still leaves me wondering why we would ever be told that we can be blotted out of the Lamb's Book of Life. Does that not mean that we were, at one time, written in it?

 

[MatthewG]

All this still leaves me wondering why we would ever be told that we can be blotted out of the Lamb's Book of Life. Does that not mean that we were, at one time, written in it?

I don’t even think that book applies to us gentiles. For some reason, I just really do not believe it does. The first mention of the book of life is founded in the Old Testament, and there were people’s names already written in it I believe proclaimed in the New Testament, and I believe that judgement on Israel and the wrath of God came on them, and that sin, death, hell, Satan all of those things were conquered over for all people.

In Revelation though there are two descriptions and destinations outside of the kingdom, or inside of the Kingdom, I’m no so worried about having my name in that book on a personal level, I just believe in faith and trust God and hope one day to be with him.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Those who insist Jesus wasn't God,and Salvation isn't eternal,irrevocable.

What a combination of error that is.

If salvation were irrevocable then Jesus told a lie when he said:

“…he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.” (Matthew 24:13)

You have no credibility at this point sir.

And don’t get me started on the “Trinity” error…

 

[BlessedPeace]

If salvation were irrevocable then Jesus told a lie when he said:

“…he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.” (Matthew 24:13)

You have no credibility at this point sir.

And don’t get me started on the “Trinity” error…

Roll your eyes.

When you believe in insecurity in Christ,you have not a clue as to what is being discussed.

And implying Jesus lied is beyond absurd,just because you do not understand,don't blame Christ.

Those that endure to the end,are one and the same in God's eternal irrevocable covenant.

It isn't a labor to hold faith,as you imply. Rather, that passage is one of assurance.

That no matter what we encounter,when we are in Christ we are armored against any trial or travail when we endure to the end in Christ it is because we have his blessed assurance no weapon forged against us can overcome our state in God's grace.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Once saved, always saved is a myth.

Uh No!

Heb 10:
14: For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Glory to God,
Taken

True. The way of Salvation is by Jesus,who was God.

 

[MatthewG]

It’s not about being insecure in Christ.

It’s about a turn an a denouncement and renouncement of the Lord.

From one prior position to another.

And I don’t think it is because these people were not once faithfully believing in God; they turned into unbelieving.

For whatever reason why people continue to persist as though a person is not able to be let go God by is false.

He gives people over.


”Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.“
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1‬:‭24‬-‭32‬ ‭KJV‬‬


And it’s just not singled out to homosexuals, which misses the mark. Believers can turn and renounce.

 

[Taken]

True. The way of Salvation is by Jesus,who was God.

Yes…
Heb 13:
[8] Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[BlessedPeace]

It’s not about being insecure in Christ.

It’s about a turn an a denouncement and renouncement of the Lord.

From one prior position to another.

And I don’t think it is because these people were not once faithfully believing in God; they turned into unbelieving.

For whatever reason why people continue to persist as though a person is not able to be let go God by is false.

He gives people over.


”Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.“
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1‬:‭24‬-‭32‬ ‭KJV‬‬


And it’s just not singled out to homosexuals, which misses the mark. Believers can turn and renounce.

True.
Now show the scripture where Jesus changed his mind and renounced his irrevocable gift of Salvation.