Soul Sleep yes or no?
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2 Corinthians 12:1-10
Easy-to-Read Version
A Special Blessing in Paul’s Life
12 There is more that I have to say about myself. It won’t help, but I will talk now about visions and revelations from the Lord. 2 I know a man[a] in Christ who was taken up to the third heaven. This happened 14 years ago. I don’t know if the man was in his body or out of his body, but God knows. 3-4 And I know that this man was taken up to paradise. I don’t know if he was in his body or away from his body, but he heard things that he is not able to explain. He heard things that no one is allowed to tell. 5 I will boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself. I will boast only about my weaknesses.6 But if I wanted to say more about myself, I would not be a fool, because I would be telling the truth. But I won’t say any more, because I don’t want people to think more of me than what they see me do or hear me say.
7 But I must not be too proud of the wonderful things that were shown to me. So a painful problem[b] was given to me—an angel from Satan, sent to make me suffer, so that I would not think that I am better than anyone else. 8 I begged the Lord three times to take this problem away from me. 9 But the Lord said, “My grace is all you need. Only when you are weak can everything be done completely by my power.” So I will gladly boast about my weaknesses. Then Christ’s power can stay in me. 10 Yes, I am glad to have weaknesses if they are for Christ. I am glad to be insulted and have hard times. I am glad when I am persecuted and have problems, because it is when I am weak that I am really strong.
BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
God's word says,no one has ascended to heaven but he who descended from it; Jesus.
There are plenty of scriptures that tell us, we sleep after we die.
Jesus raised Lazarus. He told onlookers Lazarus but slept all those days in his tomb.
I'd wager the decomp stench proved different. However,he did rise andive again.
It would be contrary to God's word for Jesus to have brought him out of Heaven and back here.
There are plenty of scriptures that tell us, we sleep after we die.
Jesus raised Lazarus. He told onlookers Lazarus but slept all those days in his tomb.
I'd wager the decomp stench proved different. However,he did rise andive again.
It would be contrary to God's word for Jesus to have brought him out of Heaven and back here.
Psalms
My life draws near to Sheol.
88:4 I am counted among those who go down into the pit.
I am like a Man Who has no Help,
88:5 set apart among the dead,
like the slain who lie in the grave,
whom You remember no more.
they are cut off from Your hand.
88:6 You have laid Me in the lowest pit,
in the darkest depths.
88:7 Your wrath lies heavily on Me.
You have afflicted Me with all Your waves.
Selah.
88:8 You have taken My friends from Me.
You have made Me an Abomination to them.
I am confined, and I can’t escape.
88:9 My eyes are dim from grief.
I have called on You daily, YHVH.
I have spread out My hands to You.
Isaiah 14:9-11
Easy-to-Read Version
9 The place of death is excitedthat you are coming.
Sheol is waking the spirits
of all the leaders of the earth for you.
Sheol is making the kings stand up
from their thrones to meet you.
10 They will make fun of you, saying,
“Now you are as dead as we are.
Now you are just like us.”
11 Your pride has been sent down to Sheol.
The music from your harps announces the coming of your proud spirit.
Maggots will be the bed you lie on,
and other worms will cover your body like a blanket.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
The songs of King David were written by the living David. Often as laments.
Hobie
Well-Known Member
Hobie
Well-Known Member
John in vision saw much the same, and if you go to heaven would you not ask to stay, I would say so...
BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
True, vs 86 places him in the grave and awake.
88:6 You have laid Me in the lowest pit,
in the darkest depths.
88:7 Your wrath lies heavily on Me.
You have afflicted Me with all Your waves.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Read the superscription for Psalm 88….The writer is not David.
”A song. A melody of the sons of Korʹah. To the director; in the style of Maʹha·lath, to be sung alternately. Masʹkil of Heʹman the Ezʹra·hite.”
“Adonai, God of my salvation,when I cry out to you in the night, let my prayer come before you,turn your ear to my cry for help! For I am oversupplied with troubles, which have brought me to the brink of Sh’ol.
I am counted among those going down to the pit, like a man who is beyond help, left by myself among the dead,like the slain who lie in the grave —you no longer remember them;they are cut off from your care. (CJB)
The writer is not dead but feeling as though he was “dead” to God. He is on the brink of Sheol, not in it.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
This is what Solomon wrote….
”for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit. So man has no superiority over animals, for everything is futile. 20 All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust.” (Eccl 3:19-20)
In death we die the same way as animals do…we breathe the same air…..when our breathing ceases….we die and our remains go back into the earth.
There is no afterlife in the Jewish scriptures from which Jesus taught. They believed in the resurrection, which was a return to life, not a continuation of it somewhere else. (Eccl 9:5, 10 ; John 5:28-29)
Christendom adopted the idea of an immortal soul from the pagan Greeks. There is no such thing mentioned in scripture.
Image of G_d is a big difference friend.
James 2:26
Easy-to-Read Version
26 A person’s body that does not have a spirit is dead. It is the same with faith—faith that does nothing is dead!The part of the phyisical body is true.
Verses that speak of the dead sleeping use phenomenological language. For example, Daniel 12:2 states, “And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” This image is of people getting up much as a sleeper rises in the morning. The sleep being discussed is phenomenological sleep, not literal sleep (Daniel is not talking about living people who sleep on the ground). Because dead people look like they are sleeping, especially when lying on their deathbeds (and notice that people often die on beds, enhancing the sleep analogy), the Bible often uses “sleep” as a euphemism for “death.” In fact, this euphemism is common today.
In Revelation 6:9-10, John writes, “When he [Christ] opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne; they cried out with a loud voice, ‘O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?'”
How do we refute the "soul sleep" argument?
Jehovah's Witnesses and Seventh-Day Adventists claim that after death our souls either cease to exist or are asleep. Click here for a Catholic answer.
1 Samuel 28:11-16 tells us that Samuel returns from the dead and pronounces Saul’s death sentence.
Luke 16 about Lazarus and the rich man clearly teaches a third state.
www.patheos.com
If the first clause is understood in an absolute sense, then so must the second clause be interpreted. Thus, the dead would have no “reward” as well as no consciousness. This would deny the resurrection and the rewarding of the righteous (see Rev 20:11-13; 21:6-7; 22:12, 14). Obviously, then, a qualification of some sort has to be placed on Ecclesiastes 9:5. In the very next verse, we learn that:
In other words, in relation to this world, the dead know nothing, but they are in a different realm, where they do know something. As further examples of this limited sense of “not knowing anything” in Scripture, see 1 Samuel 20:39 and 2 Samuel 15:11, where an interpretation of unconsciousness would be ridiculous.
Here, the spiritual use of “death” in the Bible is overlooked. For instance, 1 Timothy 5:6 reads:
That Ezekiel 18:4, 20 refers to spiritual death (i.e., separation from God, not annihilation) is obvious from context, since 18:21 declares:
...
Luke 16 about Lazarus and the rich man clearly teaches a third state.
"Soul Sleep": A Thorough Biblical Refutation
The false doctrine of soul sleep relies on the out-of-context distortion of a few utterly misunderstood biblical passages of supposed "proof."
www.patheos.com
They are not sleeping but are at home with the Lord.
What all this shows is that human death is not about "cessation of existence." Rather, it is about separation.
This one scripture powerfully attests the doctrine of "souls don't sleep":
Paul himself expressed, not the desire to sleep, but to be with Christ.
2 Corinthians 12:2-3 bolsters this interpretation:
God knows that a man can be with Him in the paradise. This is not sleep but a relationship! Take note that The thief on the cross didn’t sleep! Jesus promised him on that day that he will be with him in the paradise! (Luke 23:43).
What all this shows is that human death is not about "cessation of existence." Rather, it is about separation.
James 2:26 says that death is a separation of body and spirit. Both do not undergo annihilation after death. Rather, both merely separated.
This one scripture powerfully attests the doctrine of "souls don't sleep":
Conclusion
We have cogently proven from the Bible that "soul sleep" teaching is unbiblical.The False Doctrine of Soul Sleep II.
The false notion that believers must wait until the resurrection to be with Jesus after death is refuted.
ichthys.com
nature of the soul and the meaning of the word "soul", SR 3, BB 3A, EM, EM, EM, EM, EM, EM, EM, EM, EM, *EM, EM, EM, EM, EM, EM
"soul sleep", EM, EM, EM, EM, EM, EM, EM, EM, EM
tertium quid: the "soul" is not an independent organ, EM
Quick Answers on Soul Sleep – Jimmy Akin
jimmyakin.com
Acts 7 describes death as sleep, so does that mean that the soul is unconscious after death?
Your Adventist friend is mistaken. The Bible speaks ...
- What exactly is the soul?
- Is the soul the same as the spirit?
- If the soul and the spirit are not the same, can you explain how they are different?
- What exactly is soul sleep? (Please be as detailed as possible.)
- Is soul sleep nonexistence?
- Is soul sleep any different for the saved or the nonsaved?
- In the case of the non saved, if soul sleep is nonexistence, is the soul recreated by God in order to be judged by Him later so that the person then again becomes nonexistent again?
- If soul sleep is continuous, unconscious existence, is there any activity at all within the soul during this “unconscious” state such as thought, awareness, movement, etc.? Anything at all?
- If you believe there is an activity in the soul during soul sleep, which is continuous, unconscious existence, but it is not thought, awareness, or movement, then please list out what activity that is?
- If you don’t know what activity it is, then how can you hold to soul sleep as unconscious life?
- If there is no activity at all within the soul during soul sleep, then how can the soul be considered alive?
- If there is no activity at all within the soul during soul sleep, then how is that any different than nonexistence since both are nonactivity?
- Examining soul sleep and its problems
- The witch of Endor encountered Samuel in a séance, (1 Sam. 28:11-19)
- Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus and spoke with him at his Transfiguration, (Matt.17:1-4)
- Lazarus and the rich man both die in both are conscious and aware after physical death, (Luke 16:19-31)
- On the cross, Jesus told the thief that he would be with Jesus in paradise on that day, (Luke 23:42–43)
- Paul, most probably, was caught up into the third heaven and was not permitted to speak of what he saw when he was out of the body, (2 Cor. 12:2)
- The saints in heaven cry out for the avenging of their blood, (Revelation 6:10)
Jesus and soul sleep
Luke 23:46, “And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into Your hands I commit My Spirit.” Having said this, He breathed His last.”Upon Jesus’ physical death did his human spirit go into a state of soul sleep where the human part of him was unconscious? In order to be consistent, the conditionalist who holds the soul sleep would have to say yes. But, is this possible with Jesus?
Jesus is a single person with two distinct natures: divine and human. Related to this is a doctrine called the communicatio idiomatum. This means that the attributes of both natures are ascribed to that single person. In other words, Jesus, the person, claimed the attributes of both humanity and divinity. He spoke of being distressed (Luke 12:50), that he was with the disciples (John 7:33), and that he was thirsty (John 19:28). These are human characteristics. But he also spoke that he had glory with God the Father before the foundation of the world (John 17:5) and that he had descended from heaven (John 3:13). These are divine characteristics. So, we see that the single person of Christ exhibited attributes of both humanity and divinity. If, in conditionalist thought, the human aspect of Jesus was unconscious after his death before his resurrection, then when Jesus was alive in the intermediate state, was he acting as a whole person or not with the attributes of both natures, or not. The conditionalists would have to say no. This would mean that Jesus was not participating in both sets of attributes in his personhood during his intermediate state. But this risks violating the doctrines of the hypostatic union and the communicatio idiomatum.
That is not good.
Forty Winks? Soul Sleep vs the Bible - The Cripplegate
I relish a heavenly nap as much as the next guy, but not at the expense of actually getting to Heaven. There persists in some evangelical circles a pertinacious little misunderstanding known as “soul sleep” or, to the more erudite, “psychopannychism.” It’s the view that when you die your spirit…
thecripplegate.com
There is no purpose in guarding unconscious spirits in prison or preaching to them. The fact that they were under restraint shows them to be conscious.
Moses And Elijah
We also have the account of Moses and Elijah appearing at the transfiguration of Jesus (Matthew 17:1-8). The impression is that they are coming from a sphere of conscious life to converse with Jesus. There is no indication that they are awakening from some dreamless sleep, or from some sphere no better than the earth.
3. Not Permitted To Talk
While there is no record of any of those who were resuscitated as relating their experiences in the next world, this does not mean they were unconscious. Paul, for example, clearly said that he was not permitted to relate his experience of the time he was in the presence of God.
Moreover this is an argument from silence. We do not know that Lazarus, or some of the other people who were resuscitated, did not ever talk about their experiences. All we know is that there experience was not recorded. This does not mean they had nothing to talk about.
4. Robber On The Cross
As to the robber on the cross, the punctuation argued by those who believe in soul sleep does not make sense. It is true that the oldest existing manuscripts of the New Testament do not contain punctuation marks, and that their punctuation is theoretically possible. However, since they were both dying, there is no other time Jesus could make this statement than that very day. Furthermore, His statement is in response to a specific request, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom." The reason Jesus emphasized the man would be with him that day was because of the general belief that the kingdom of God would come at the end of the world. Jesus told him He would enter God's kingdom immediately.
Dead Not Unconscious Or Non-Existent
The word dead is used in Scripture of those who exist and are conscious. The Bible also speaks of people being spiritually dead while they are still alive.
Wayward Son
The wayward son was in a state of spiritual death, or separation, from the Lord.
In these instances, the people were alive and conscious when spoken of as being dead. Death was not the end of consciousness or existence.
God And Angels
God is Spirit, and so are the angels. Neither has any physical form.
Angels are also spirits.
Yet both God and angels have consciousness. Therefore beings without a body can exist in a conscious state.
Far Better?
If Paul was asleep at death, how could he say that to die, and to be with the Lord, was far better than being in this body?
Conscious fellowship with the Lord in this life would be better than being unconscious in the next.
Spirits With The Lord
The Bible says the spirits of the righteous are already with the Lord.
Promise
The Bible gives this promise.
Do Not Take Part?
Are we to assume that those who have entered into God's presence are not taking part in all the blessings of the next realm? Why bring them into God's presence and not allow them any of the benefits.
Already Awake
A number of passages speak of believers being already awake in God's presence.
Fullness Of Joy
Those who are dead are in a state of joy.
Soul's Crying Out In God's Presence
The souls of believers were crying in God's presence.
Were these souls crying in their sleep?
Unbelievers Also Conscious
From the account that Jesus gave of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) we discover that unbelievers are also conscious when they are dead.
Summary
Soul sleep says the souls of the dead are unconscious, awaiting the day of resurrection. The Bible however, does not support this contention. Scripture clearly teaches that the believing dead are conscious in the presence of the Lord while the unbelieving dead are conscious apart from Him. Therefore soul sleep is not a biblical doctrine. The passages used to prove that the dead have no consciousness are unconvincing.
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