I wouldn't call it different levels. Either our views are Scriptural or they are not.
Much love!
TULIP an open discussion
- Thread starter CadyandZoe
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Much love!
If so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you...in other words we must be Born Of The Spirit, otherwise we don’t belong to God...
We have the Spirit of righteousness because we have been Born Again by the will of God...we were predestined to become children of God and to be made into the image of Jesus.
We received him...when his Spirit gave birth to our spirit.when “ HE” opened our heart to receive His Spirit ..our spirit must be Born Again.
He opens our heart to receive his Spirit..we wouldn’t know how.
“ Spirit gives birth to spirit “...how would we know that Gods Spirit has birthed ours into his?
I call it different levels of Spiritual understanding....plus understanding Gods written” word” in the Spirit..
What did you receive?...before the rebirth? and how can you believe without the Spirit?
Do you see how the passage speaks?
John 1:11-13 KJV
11) He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Some receive Jesus, believing in His Name, and these God then goes on to give rebirth to. Those who do not receive Him, He does not give rebirth to. Not, those who don't receive/believe in Jesus, God doesn't change them so they do believe, that is never said. Only that He gives rebirth to those who receive and believe.
Your view is that God causes some to be born again having nothing to do with them, however, this passage states plainly that there is a prerequisite, that depends on the action of the person, that is, to receive, and believe.
Much love!
John 1:12-13 KJV
12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Much love!
Does that mean there is what the words of the Bible say, and then there is a spiritual understanding that is different from what the words say?
Much love!
You cannot believe in Jesus without His Spirit?
Gods word not my view.....I was Born Again having never read a Bible.John 3:8
King James Version
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit
I'm going to camp out on this passage for as long as needed, as it speaks clearly.
Only to those who receive Jesus, believing on His Name, only those does God give rebirth to. Again, "received" and "believe" are active voice verbs. It's not done to us, or for us, its something we ourselves do.
And then we are reborn by God.
Much love!
Edit to add . . . I have no wish to argue or debate this with you, so I'll leave it here, unless you wish to ask a direct question.
More love!
Behold
Well-Known Member
No..
that is not what John "the devil" Calvin teaches.
Calvin teaches that you are so depraved, (the T in TULIP).... that you can't believe in Jesus, so God has to force you.., has to make you believe in Jesus.
In other words.....You are too depraved to Trust in Christ, and you have no free will to do it.
You're a just a sinning puppet, = no free will, and God has to make you trust in Christ., according to Calvin.
And according to Calvinism, .. GOD may not make your mother or your Grandmother or your children believe..., according to Calvin.... and if not, then just relax, as according to John Calvinism, they were "pre-destined" before they were born = to go to hell and burn in the Lake of Fire, because God "chose them to not be allowed to Trust in Christ". (as they have no free will to do it, or they would).
"God Chose them for Hell, before they were born".. Is JOHN CALVINISM... some of it.
Welcome to : Calvinism.
Its one of the finest Theologies that Satan ever created.
It has deceived billions since it was given to Calvin by a Demon.
Many People on this very forum and on all Christian forums, are deceive by it.
They will tell you......"yes im a Calvinist"..
Well, God Isn't.
Jesus isn't a Calvinist.
The Holy Spirit isn't a Calvinist.
Paul the Apostle is not a Calvinist.
The Bible does not teach Calvinism.
Its like this Reader.
God creates : Christians
John Calvin creates : Calvinism and Calvinist's.
The word is understood in the Spirit?
The word is written in the Spirit, inspired by the “ Living “ word of God...how would you know that Gods word is Alive and Active?
Can you please answer my other questions..I have answered all of yours, thanks,xx
That is not how God says we are Born Again.....you can believe initially as God brings us to believe.....but you can’t believe the written word, which is Spiritual...without the Living rebirth..you must be Born Again of His Spirit to understand his word that is written and understood in the Spirit.
I have asked you questions to which you have answered one or two..you never answered the others.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
Hi all,
Someone asked me to begin a thread about the Reformed doctrine summarized by Calvinists as TULIP
Here is what I said earlier
Calvin's followers have summarized his teaching with the pneumonic acronym TULIP
T = Total depravity
U = Unconditional Election
L = Limited Atonement
I = Irresistible Grace
P = Perseverance of the Saints.
This theological perspective seeks to answer the question, "How much does man participate in his (or her) salvation?" Both Theologians and Bible students seek a balance between two principles: 1) God's sovereignty and 2) Man's responsibility. Calvinists maintain that salvation is by grace alone and, therefore, man has little to do with being saved. Those who are being saved are the victims of God's grace, if I can put it that way.
Please feel free to comment. You can agree, or disagree, or if you like, simply ask questions for others to answer. I am not an expert on these, though I can respond to "easy" questions about the doctrine. I would need to take a deeper dive into the subject and read some Reformed web sites to familiarize myself in what the doctrine teaches.
I am, however, very well-versed in the Biblical text from where such doctrines are derived.
Anyway, may those who participate in this thread be blessed and bless others.
My views on this are affected by my experience analyzing people and their response to Christianity. Certainly, rejection of Christianity does not determine a person has been predestined to Hell. Jesus said, "Forgive them for they know not what they do."Hi all,
Someone asked me to begin a thread about the Reformed doctrine summarized by Calvinists as TULIP
Here is what I said earlier
Calvin's followers have summarized his teaching with the pneumonic acronym TULIP
T = Total depravity
U = Unconditional Election
L = Limited Atonement
I = Irresistible Grace
P = Perseverance of the Saints.
This theological perspective seeks to answer the question, "How much does man participate in his (or her) salvation?" Both Theologians and Bible students seek a balance between two principles: 1) God's sovereignty and 2) Man's responsibility. Calvinists maintain that salvation is by grace alone and, therefore, man has little to do with being saved. Those who are being saved are the victims of God's grace, if I can put it that way.
Please feel free to comment. You can agree, or disagree, or if you like, simply ask questions for others to answer. I am not an expert on these, though I can respond to "easy" questions about the doctrine. I would need to take a deeper dive into the subject and read some Reformed web sites to familiarize myself in what the doctrine teaches.
I am, however, very well-versed in the Biblical text from where such doctrines are derived.
Anyway, may those who participate in this thread be blessed and bless others.
On the other hand, some people appear to be so morally bankrupt that they are unable to differentiate God from the Devil. These appear to be lost. I cannot reach people who lack a conscience.
I don't think God predetermined these conscience-less people to fail. But I do think He anticipated, through the course of bad human choices, and reproduction, that certain people will exist on the "wrong side of the tracks." This is Man's fault--not God's fault. Satan has a way of taking God's goodness and turning it into evil. God cannot be blamed for that. God gave both Satan and Mankind free will.
That being said, the doctrine of Total Depravity may have truth in it, but its shortcomings outweigh its value for me. On the "truth" side, it declares that everything "good" must come from God, and not from Man. Salvation, being a "good thing," must've originated from God, and not from anything we've done, including accept God.
That being said, this position seems to assume that it is an either/or proposition. Either God is good, and Man bad, or God is not the source of goodness at all.
But this is not the reality. God created Man to be good, so that Man can also choose for the good and do good. So to say that Man, even in his sin, is Totally Depraved, is not just wrong--it is unbiblical. That is all I will say for now.
Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the word of God.
So we hear His Word, which then brings faith.
Much love!
God says we are Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed...how would we know this?
In all honesty I have a difficult time following some of your posts. I'm not planning to go fishing through the thread. If there's something you think I skipped over feel free to bring it up.
Much love!
Similar threads
