The Case for the Sinless Ever-Virgin Mary.

[Soulx3]

I didn't say "immortal souls". People who died are not here, including Mary.

You said "they are gone." "They" as in "people" and every person has a soul. When a person's body dies, they continue to live as their soul is immortal. So, again, in what way is an immortal soul "gone?"

So you talk to them but they don't answer.

They answer just haven't audibly as of yet, but others have had experiences of hearing audible voices.

 

[Soulx3]

Yes I do.

Since you ask others to join you in prayer to God, do you say that you're praying to them as if they were God?

 

[Jack]

You said "they are gone." "They" as in "people" and every person has a soul. When a person's body dies, they continue to live as their soul is immortal. So, again, in what way is an immortal soul "gone?"

They are gone from this life. It's not nearly as difficult as you are making it.

They answer just haven't audibly as of yet, but others have had experiences of hearing audible voices.

Others communicate with demons too. How do you know you aren't?

 

[Soulx3]

They are gone from this life. It's not nearly as difficult as you are making it.

So, they're gone as in they're not physically on earth you mean? Yes, but they're still alive, because their soul is immortal. And, one day their soul and body will reunite and they'll be alive in their physical body again as well.

Others communicate with demons too. How do you know you aren't?

In Jesus's third year of public ministry, He cured a Demoniac who later returned to Him expressing doubt of having been really cured by Him and not a demon, doubt caused by the Pharisees who had heard about his experience. Below is an excerpt of Jesus's response to the man:

"Listen, child of God!» And Jesus lays His hands on the ruffled hair of the man delirious with supernatural fear: « Listen. And judge. Judge by yourself because your reason is free and you can judge according to justice. There is an unerring way to find out whether a prodigy comes from God or from a demon. And it is what a soul feels. If the extraordinary event comes from God, it infuses peace into the soul, peace and solemn joy. If it comes from the demon, it brings about perturbation and sorrow. And peace and joy come also from the words of God, whereas perturbation and sorrow come from those of a demon, be it a demon spirit or a demon man. And also the closeness of God grants peace and joy whereas the closeness of wicked spirits or men bring about perturbation and sorrow." (The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. IV)

Thankfully, thus far, I haven't encountered the presence of a demon.

 

[Jack]

So, they're gone as in they're not physically on earth you mean? Yes, but they're still alive, because their soul is immortal. And, one day their soul and body will reunite and they'll be alive in their physical body as well as in spirit.



In Jesus's third year of public ministry, He cured a Demoniac who later returned to Jesus expressing doubt of having been really cured by Him and not a demon, doubt caused by the Pharisees who had heard about his experience. Below is an excerpt of Jesus's response to the man:

"Listen, child of God!» And Jesus lays His hands on the ruffled hair of the man delirious with supernatural fear: « Listen. And judge. Judge by yourself because your reason is free and you can judge according to justice. There is an unerring way to find out whether a prodigy comes from God or from a demon. And it is what a soul feels. If the extraordinary event comes from God, it infuses peace into the soul, peace and solemn joy. If it comes from the demon, it brings about perturbation and sorrow. And peace and joy come also from the words of God, whereas perturbation and sorrow come from those of a demon, be it a demon spirit or a demon man. And also the closeness of God grants peace and joy whereas the closeness of wicked spirits or men bring about perturbation and sorrow." (The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. IV)

Thankfully, thus far, I haven't encountered the presence of a demon.

Who do you talk to? Where are they? How do they talk to you? Are they in purgatory? Hell? Heaven? So they make you feel good so you know it's not demons? I don't think you have a clue!

 

[Soulx3]

Who do you talk to? Where are they? How do they talk to you? Are they in purgatory? Hell? Heaven?

I talk to God the Father, Jesus, His Mother, the apostles, etc., and they are in Heaven. Again, thus far, I haven't heard them speak audibly, but they reply in other ways.

So they make you feel good so you know it's not demons? I don't think you have a clue!

Demons are no longer angels, and thus can no longer reflect God by means of bringing peace and joy, but rather perturbation and sorrow. That's how you know what's of a demon and what's of God.

 

[Jack]

I talk to God the Father, Jesus, His Mother, the apostles, etc., and they are in Heaven. Again, thus far, I haven't heard them speak audibly, but they reply in other ways.

How do you know Satan isn't answering you? He makes you feel good? RED FLAG!

Demons are no longer angels,

No longer?

and thus no longer reflect God by means of bringing peace and joy, but rather perturbation and sorrow. That's how you know what's of a demon and what's of God.

So the Devil sweet talks you and you believe you're talking to those who died.

Revelation 12:9
9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world;

 

[Soulx3]

How do you know Satan isn't answering you? He makes you feel good? RED FLAG!

Satan and his demons are no longer angels, and thus can no longer reflect God by means of bringing peace and joy, but rather perturbation and sorrow. That's how you know what's of a demon and what's of God.

No longer?

Yes, Satan and his demons were once angels who chose to no longer obey God.

So the Devil sweet talks you and you believe you're talking to those who died.

Revelation 12:9
9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world;

Satan and his demons can't deceive through means of bringing peace and joy, because they are no longer angels, and thus can no longer reflect God by means of bringing peace and joy, but rather perturbation and sorrow. That's how you know what's of a demon and what's of God.

 

[Jack]

Satan and his demons are no longer angels, and thus can no longer reflect God by means of bringing peace and joy, but rather perturbation and sorrow. That's how you know what's of a demon and what's of God.

Scripture please.

Yes, Satan and his demons were once angels who chose to no longer obey God.

Scripture please.

Satan and his demons can't deceive through means of bringing peace and joy, because they are no longer angels, and thus can no longer reflect God by means of bringing peace and joy, but rather perturbation and sorrow. That's how you know what's of a demon and what's of God.

You should have read the Christian Bible.

2 Corinthians 11:14 Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.

 

[Soulx3]

Scripture please.

Scripture please.

Happily, but it would be of no use to you if you limit the knowledge of God to the Bible. Do you?

You should have read the Christian Bible.

2 Corinthians 11:14 Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.

He can look the part, but he can't actually be an angel, because he and his demons are no longer angels, and thus can no longer reflect God by means of bringing peace and joy, but rather perturbation and sorrow. That's how you know what's of a demon and what's of God, even if they look the part.

 

[Soulx3]

If Mary were holy and perfect, she would not have been fully human.

Jesus was fully divine and fully human, so why couldn't Mary be so Holy and Perfect as to be Second only to God?

 

[RedFan]

So, we agree with the very fact that Mary conceived God Incarnate is a valid argument for Her being without sin.

I don't know that it's a "valid" argument. That's your word. But I see the argument. Its not convincing to me, but I see it.

 

[RedFan]

Jesus was fully divine and fully human, so why couldn't Mary be so Holy and Perfect as to be Second only to God?

She could have been. Doesn't mean she was.

 

[Jack]

Happily, but it would be of no use to you if you limit the knowledge of God to the Bible. Do you?

Ok, you have no Scripture.

He can look the part, but he can't actually be an angel, because he and his demons are no longer angels, and thus can no longer reflect God by means of bringing peace and joy, but rather perturbation and sorrow. That's how you know what's of a demon and what's of God, even if they look the part.

You don't seem to have Scripture for anything. You say they're not dead. Paul says they are.

1 Thessalonians 4:16
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

Jesus said they are DEAD! Whom should we believe, Jesus and Paul or you?

John 5:25
25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.

 

[Soulx3]

Ok, you have no Scripture.

I have Scripture you reject, and so you limit the knowledge of God to the Bible.

You don't seem to have Scripture for anything. You say they're not dead. Paul says they are.

1 Thessalonians 4:16
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

Jesus said they are DEAD! Whom should we believe, Jesus and Paul or you?

John 5:25
25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.

Dead as in they are not physically alive, not that they're not alive at all.

 

[Jack]

I have Scripture you reject, and so you limit the knowledge of God to the Bible.

Lay em on us from the Christian Bible, not the Catholic Bible!

Dead as in they are not physically alive

No kidding?

, not that they're not alive at all.

Jesus and Paul called them DEAD!

 

[Soulx3]

Lay em on us from the Christian Bible, not the Catholic Bible!

I'm not referring to scriptural writings that make up the Bible, but rather scriptural writings that make up The Poem of the Man-God. If you limit the knowledge of God to the Bible then let me know, so I don't waste my time revealing words of Jesus that will be rejected.

Lay em on us from the Christian Bible, not the Catholic Bible!

No kidding?

Jesus and Paul called them DEAD!

Yes, dead as in not physically alive, not that their soul is dead, because the soul is immortal and thus alive, but one day their soul and body will reunite, and they'll be alive in their physical body again as well.

 

[Jack]

I'm not referring to scriptural writings that make up the Bible, but rather scriptural writings that make up The Poem of the Man-God. If you limit the knowledge of God to the Bible then let me know, so I don't waste my time revealing words of Jesus that will be rejected.

IOW, you want to avoid the Christian Bible. Got it!

Yes, dead as in not physically alive,

No kidding? lol

not that their soul is dead,

I never said or implied any such thing!

because the soul is immortal and thus alive, but one day their soul and body will reunite, and they'll be alive in their physical body again as well.

 

[Soulx3]

And no one can deny that there is existing FALSE information about people/places/events that is lacking in the writings that make up the Bible. You really need to get off this "The Bible doesn't say No, therefore YES" kick. You've got some good points to make, and this type of silliness only detracts from your credibility.

Firstly, I already said that there is existing false and true information about people/places/events that are lacking in the writings that make up the Bible. I made a point to remind that there's true information about people/places/events that are lacking in the writings that make up the Bible in response to protestants who argue, "If x, y, z is not mentioned, or not explicitly mentioned in the Bible, then it's automatically false," because that is false. Does that mean if x y, z is not mentioned at all, or not explicitly mentioned in the Bible, then it's automatically true? No, but again, it doesn't automatically mean it isn't either, and it isn't impossible to know whether x, y, z is true or false. Do you agree with all that?

Secondly, I've never argued that Mary being without sin is not in the scriptural writings that make up the Bible, and thus proves my position, but rather argued that it is in the Bible, just not in a way others accept, at least right now. I've also argued that Mary being without sin is explicitly mentioned in scriptural writings that make up The Poem of the Man-God, currently not accepted by some. Therefore, you're misrepresenting me when you say I'm on a "The Bible doesn't say NO, therefore YES kick," so will you say that detracts from any credibility you may have?

Thirdly, what credibility do I have, or can I have, among Protestants when merely for being Catholic most Protestants here, if not all, say that anything I believe that they don't is automatically false?

You've got some good points to make...

In all humility, they're not my own points, but Jesus's. I'm merely relaying what He's spoken on this subject, and far less eloquently.

And no one can deny that there is existing FALSE information about people/places/events that is lacking in the writings that make up the Bible. You really need to get off this "The Bible doesn't say No, therefore YES" kick. You've got some good points to make, and this type of silliness only detracts from your credibility.

Firstly, I already said that there is existing false and true information about people/places/events that are lacking in the writings that make up the Bible. I made a point to remind that there's true information about people/places/events that are lacking in the writings that make up the Bible in response to protestants who argue, "If x, y, z is not mentioned, or not explicitly mentioned in the Bible, then it's automatically false," because that is false. Does that mean if x y, z is not mentioned at all, or not explicitly mentioned in the Bible, then it's automatically true? No, but again, it doesn't automatically mean it isn't either, and it isn't impossible to know whether x, y, z is true or false. Do you agree with all that?

Secondly, I've never argued that Mary being without sin is not in the scriptural writings that make up the Bible, and thus proves my position, but rather argued that it is in the Bible, just not in a way others accept, at least right now. I've also argued that Mary being without sin is explicitly mentioned in scriptural writings that make up The Poem of the Man-God, currently not accepted by some. Therefore, you're misrepresenting me when you say I'm on a "The Bible doesn't say NO, therefore YES kick," so will you say that detracts from any credibility you may have?

Thirdly, what credibility do I have, or can I have, among Protestants when merely for being Catholic most Protestants here, if not all, say that anything I believe that they don't is automatically false?

She could have been.

When you agree that it's possible She is without sin, but you do not accept it, then you must still believe it's possible for Her to be of sin. Therefore, you're suggesting both scenarios could be true, but God isn't contradictory, so only one of those scenarios can be true. How could Mary not have been so Holy and Perfect, as to be Second only to God, in order to be the Mother of God Incarnate?

 

[Jack]

1 Peter 2:21-22
21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
22 "Who committed no sin, Nor was deceit found in His mouth";

ONLY Jesus was sinless!