The Case for Eternal Security

[St. SteVen]

BTW, Im not judging according to how well a person lives their life. I would say that is what Matt7:2 is referring to. But if a person completely and irreconcilably walks away from faith in Christ, what is their righteousness before God then? That is what Jesus stated '''they believed for a while'''

Maybe the Bible isn't contradictory, but your post certainly is.
- "Im not judging according to how well a person lives their life."
- "But if a person completely and irreconcilably walks away from faith in Christ, what is their righteousness before God then?"

What is righteousness based on? (credit from God)

Romans 4:4-6 NIV
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly,
their faith is credited as righteousness.
6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of
the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

Romans 4:23-25 NIV
The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone,
24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—
for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.
25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

There is an awful lot in Gods word that I don’t understand.....

Isn’t the Bible inspired by the “ Living “ word of God?

It was written by people who God chose to speak out his Living word?

In other words God spoke through them and they wrote it down, pretty amazing don’t you think....same as he speaks to our spirit through his Spirit...

How long ago was it written?

So much of it I do understand “ now” but, I’ve had to wait for the witness of the Holy Spirit to reveal Gods truth to my spirit....of course again this is just my POV,xx

We all need to do the hard work of studying this important subject. (grab a shovel and start digging)

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus – Textual Criticism 101​

https://www.bereanpatriot.com/majority-text-vs-critical-text-vs-textus-receptus-textual-criticism-101/#Corruption-of-the-Alexandrian-text-type

/

 

[simplefaith1]

Maybe the Bible isn't contradictory, but your post certainly is.
- "Im not judging according to how well a person lives their life."
- "But if a person completely and irreconcilably walks away from faith in Christ, what is their righteousness before God then?"

What is righteousness based on? (credit from God)

Romans 4:4-6 NIV
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly,
their faith is credited as righteousness.
6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of
the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

Romans 4:23-25 NIV
The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone,
24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—
for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.
25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

/

There is no contradiction in my post. The christian has but one righteousness before God-faith in His Son. If a person completely and irrevocably turns away from their one and only righteousness before God, what right standing do they then have before Him?

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes. Salvation has conditions.

Can you list them?

/

 

[St. SteVen]

There is no contradiction in my post. The christian has but one righteousness before God-faith in His Son. If a person completely and irrevocably turns away from their one and only righteousness before God, what right standing do they then have before Him?

More contradictions.
Salvation by works. or by grace?

/

 

[Ritajanice]

@St. SteVen .....I am very tempted to continue going, hehehe....yet I believe I am now being led out of this thread, it was a pleasure, God Bless you and yours,xxx

 

[simplefaith1]

More contradictions.
Salvation by works. or by grace?

/

No contradiction at all.
Contemplate on the parable of the sower. In the second example people only believed for a while, in the time of testing they fell away
In the third example people kept getting sidetracked from the path they should be on by worldly things. Jesus did not say they walked away, only they did not mature, you mature by evermore practising right from wrong. So they did not remain in the faith based on works did they
If you want to say faith in Christ is a ''work'' so I am contradicting myself fine, I will leave it there. Grace comes through faith though

 

[Lambano]

 

[Rightglory]

God will never save anyone because they promised to try to be like Jesus.

Why not?

Its because if God saved someone based on their agreement, then God is not saving them based on The Cross of Christ.

Based on the Cross of Christ, Christ saved the entire world and mankind from the power of death and sin.
Christ did not save a single individual personally from the Cross. His cross work made it possible for God to have union with man as he was meant to be. That union is solely based on each individual to believe, to repent, confess their sins, be baptized and receive the Holy Spirit. That is what makes a believer. That union proceeds with a believer living a life of love and when he sins, to confess his sins and receive remittance from Christ as our High Priest.

So, to save you based on your self effort is to deny : John 14:6

That'll never happen.

God does not require your promise of better behavior to save you.... He requires that you give Him your Faith in HIS Savior.

He saves those who believe in Him. That belief is a continuous journey through one's life after becoming a believer through the power of the Holy Spirit through YOUR faith, I Pet 1:3-5. Many forsake Him which is why all the warning to remain faithful. Your salvation is totally dependent on what YOU DO. You will be judged on that basis, Rom 2:5-11.
God works with you as long as you work with Him. You forsake Him, He will forsake you. II Tim 2:13.

 

[Rightglory]

The Parable of the Sower is not about salvation. It is about fruitfulness. Read the punchline. (vs 22-23)

Matthew 13:18-23 NIV
“Listen then to what the parable of the sower means:
19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it,
the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart.
This is the seed sown along the path.
20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy.
21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time.
When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.
22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word,
but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.
23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it.
This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”

/

Precisely.

 

[Behold]

Do we really understand where this book came from?

One of your "theological" issues, and they are Legion... is that you made the critical error of reading more ABOUT the bible, from bible rejectors, then you actually studied the bible.

You'll deny it, and if you do, then you'll need to repent later, as if that is going to solve it..
It won't.

This is the same situation with all who fall prey to what is described in Hebrews 13:9, as "doctrines of devils".

You were man led into your broken understanding of the word of God and of Christianity, itself.

Paul said of you..

"WHO has bewitched you,, (put a spell on your mind) so that it became darkened and unable to see Truth as God intended".


A.) A MAN

Could have been Calvin's writings......as they certainly have owned you as well. @St. SteVen

 

[Behold]

Yes. Salvation has conditions.

Just one.

You must Truly BELIEVE in Jesus.

A.) "Faith is counted (by God) as (Christ's) righteousness" on your behalf.

 

[Wynona]

Can you list them?

/

Jesus’ sacrifice was enough to be propitiation for the whole world (1 John 2:22).

Initially, we didn’t have to do anything to get salvation because it was a free gift of grace (Ephesians 2:8-9).

All we had to do was believe in Jesus’ resurrection in our hearts and confess him in our mouths (Romans 10:9).

This alone seats you in heavenly places and gets you in the Kingdom (Ephesians 2:6)

However, you can make it all the way to the Kingdom only to be removed (Matthew 13:41, Matthew 22:12-14)

For not doing the Lord’s will and working iniquity (Matthew 7:21-23)

For unforgiveness (Matthew 6:15)

For not helping the least of these (Matthew 25:31-41)

For being enslaved to sin (John 8:34-36)

The modern interpretation of the gospel is that Jesus saved us through grace which means we rest in His righteousness *instead* of ours as in we don’t have to have any personal good deeds. The true gospel is that Jesus saved us so we could die to sin completely and become alive to the righteousness of faith. A very practical righteousness where we do good and help our brethren and neighbors with urgent needs.

We that say that we know Him ought to walk as he walked (1 John 2:6).

 

[Behold]

Based on the Cross of Christ, Christ saved the entire world and mankind from the power of death and sin.

Yes...Jesus is THE Savior of all mankind..

(There is no other one)....

In other words the Salvation of God has been completed on the Cross by THE Savior.... John 14:6

However, the application the actual REDEMPTION.... is not applied to anyone, until they BELIEVE.

You have to give God your Faith in Christ ... BEFORE God will give you what Christ has done for you on the Cross.... provided for you by His Blood and Death.

He saves those who believe in Him. That belief is a continuous journey

Faith (in Christ)... is "counted by God".. and that means when you give it, He takes it... the first time.

Notice..

"born again" is once... .and that is because you are only SAVED ONCE, and that happens the instant God sees your Faith in Christ in your Heart.

 

[Rightglory]

RG: back again....

No, I really do not think so at all. In Matthew 24:45 Jesus first describes what is a wise (and faithful) servant (saved one) with a question.

Jesus Describes the Wise Servant ....
(Mat 24:45) Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his lord has set over his household to give them their food in due time?
(Mat 24:46) Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he comes shall find so doing.
(Mat 24:47) Truly I say to you, that he will set him over all that he has.
(Mat 24:48) But if that evil servant shall say in his heart: My lord’s coming is delayed,
(Mat 24:49) and shall begin to beat his fellow-servants and shall eat and drink with the drunkards,
(Mat 24:50) the lord of that servant shall come in a day when he does not expect him and in an hour when he does not know,
(Mat 24:51) and will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Jesus is not saying that there is a faithful or unfaithful servant of the master as of yet, at all. It is a parable about the one who will have salvation and the other who will not. The condition of the heart and faith in his master or lord is all important, and reflected in the mind and ones actions.

And the one who is saved in written in verses 45b -47 and the one found to be a wicked servant of the master is found in verses 48-51

The key to faithfulness is the condition of the heart, of faith given by the Spirit or not at all. Then one goes it alone.

And let me post again what I wrote in #189..
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"And Matt 24:40-51 is all about those who were saved and doing in faith spiritual works of the Spirit, and those who deliberately put off their call to salvation. They thought they could continue in sin and evil works in their carnal natural fallen lifestyle and avoid judgement as they did not believe they would be judged.

The door to their salvation was closed by God. He called and they were never chosen. They were left outside of the Kingdom. They had the opportunity to open their heart to God and they refused to believe in him, his gospel and his Son for salvation and the coming judgment. And so these were placed with the other hypocrites or unbelievers."
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Now to bring my many thoughts on this thread and topic to together RG, let me summarize what I have experienced for several decades now.

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There are several popular doctrines for personal salvation whereby the majority of their adherents have one common striking component; they are not sure if they possess the spirit of God or not. They do not sense the presence of God in their life or walk. And therefore they doubt many words of God for salvation, wholesale. And are also apt to discount any scripture or any believers’ testimony assuring them of personal salvation. These are the Once Saved Not always Saved (OSNOS) group of believers. They sit on the spiritual fence for salvation, and wait, or try to be good, for what to happen? Is there hope of salvation for their lives?

No, if one is dedicated and firmly entrenched into this OSNOS idea, then these were never being saved in the first place where God presided over his proceedings for their salvation, according to scripture. The lack of right faith given by God is essential for being saved. And only God can provide this saving faith to those he calls and chooses.

These are the five common non-saving formulas held by many:

The ‘Roman Catholic’ version: This entails having a weekly or periodic spiritual checkup and tune-up. A cyclical dose of repentance to salvation is performed by a priest at the confession box. This repetitive confession of sins does not bring a person to true repentance let alone being saved to redemption. In fact, it encourages the opposite. I guess then the Spirit must ‘jo-jo’ and is required to jump out of the person before ‘confession.’ And the Spirit jumps back into them after the tune-up and cleansing session. This cycle tries to ensure Salvation although this method has no assurance of salvation before death. No one can be free from sin, therefore repetitive confession of sin and repentance gives some spiritual and psychological relief and not any true hope.

The ‘Just-in-time and no time for more sin’ Salvation version: If one ensures they are ‘clean’ of sin by a final act of repentance, and pray that they believe in Christ on one’s death bed, then Salvation is guaranteed because there is no time to commit any more sins. This version is also incorporated as part of the Catholic version with its ‘last rites’ ritual performed by a priest as he presents a holy appearance with words of assurance as he hovers around the death bed; holding a bible in one hand and performing the physical Trinity formula in the other hand.

The ‘Grace only’ version: Once the rebirth is believed to be started and the new spirit is initiated, there is no need to cooperate with this new spirit and walk in Christ. Grace of God, the reason for their salvation trumps everything. They think that this grace of God is the power of God to sustain their salvation. These believers should consider one. The grace given is the method of delivery by God only, and that their gift of faith given by God is an obedient faith that is present be acted upon and realized in their ‘walk.’

The ‘fight for good works to Salvation’ version: Using our own will with acts of self-led good works to please and serve God and Christ. This is also incorporated to some degree in the Catholic religion.

The ‘only if we (try hard) and remain and continue in faith’ to not fall away version: This is similar to the version 4. Salvation. There is no guarantee of permanence of this type of salvation. And it is not genuine salvation. It depends on the so-called ‘free’ will of the person to stay in the ‘being saved’ mode or not, and outside or internal influences or changes in mind can perturb their walk and they will veer off and completely become unsaved, somehow. They can however come back if their free will wants to come back to Christ again. Scripture says this is impossible.
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I hope this helps you understand how I currently see this topic....thanks for listening RG

I don't discount how you understand what you call salvation. It is your view.
For me none of the above is a valid scriptural situation. Using the phrase having been saved or are saved never appears in scripture relative to one's faith walk with the Holy Spirit. Historically the view does not appear until the 16th century with the system called Calvinism. It fits well with his other teaching of predestination. The two ideas cannot be separated, though some think it can be.
Great discussion.

 

[Behold]

For not doing the Lord’s will and working iniquity (Matthew 7:21-23)

Its doing iniquity to teach Calvinism in place of God's Grace.

Its doing iniquity to teach that Pastors should be living in a ditch, with a bag of bread and a bottle of water, only.

Its doing iniquity to try to prove that you have to OF YOURSELF< .. Keep your Salvation through self effort...

Or as i told you...

@Wynona .......When you dont believe that Jesus Keeps you saved.. then who does?

 

[Rightglory]

Yes...Jesus is THE Savior of all mankind..

(There is no other one)....

In other words the Salvation of God has been completed on the Cross by THE Savior.... John 14:6

However, the application the actual REDEMPTION.... is not applied to anyone, until they BELIEVE.

Christ accomplished two very specific work from the Cross by His death and resurrection. He defeated death for the world. Gave life to the world. This is an objective work. It is imposed on every human being and the world. It is accomplished in the last day, when all men will rise from the dead and a new heaven and new earth will be established.
The second one was for the sacrifice of sin. Because of His obedience He became the eternal sacrifice for sin. So that in a person's lifetime, God can have union with a sinner. When as a believer we sin, we can confess our sins, and being our High Priest, He is faithful to forgive. That forgiveness is ONLY applied when one confesses their sins. There is no automatic forgiveness because He died on the Cross, or that one became a beliver. It should be a daily occurance in a believers life. Unforgiven sin can condemn a believer.

You have to give God your Faith in Christ ... BEFORE God will give you what Christ has done for you on the Cross.... provided for you by His Blood and Death.

See above.

Faith (in Christ)... is "counted by God".. and that means when you give it, He takes it... the first time.

Notice..

"born again" is once... .and that is because you are only SAVED ONCE, and that happens the instant God sees your Faith in Christ in your Heart.

scripture does not say one is " saved" when one is born again. It says one shall enter into His kingdom, There your journey towards salvation begins. You are never "saved" in this life, but you are being saved. You will inherit that salvation at the end. I Pet 1:3-5.
Where is the text that says a believer either was saved or has been saved relative to his personal relationship as a believer. I might also add that belief or believe is always in the present/active mode, never in the past tense.

 

[simplefaith1]

Christ accomplished two very specific work from the Cross by His death and resurrection. He defeated death for the world. Gave life to the world. This is an objective work. It is imposed on every human being and the world. It is accomplished in the last day, when all men will rise from the dead and a new heaven and new earth will be established.
The second one was for the sacrifice of sin. Because of His obedience He became the eternal sacrifice for sin. So that in a person's lifetime, God can have union with a sinner. When as a believer we sin, we can confess our sins, and being our High Priest, He is faithful to forgive. That forgiveness is ONLY applied when one confesses their sins. There is no automatic forgiveness because He died on the Cross, or that one became a beliver. It should be a daily occurance in a believers life. Unforgiven sin can condemn a believer.

See above.

scripture does not say one is " saved" when one is born again. It says one shall enter into His kingdom, There your journey towards salvation begins. You are never "saved" in this life, but you are being saved. You will inherit that salvation at the end. I Pet 1:3-5.
Where is the text that says a believer either was saved or has been saved relative to his personal relationship as a believer. I might also add that belief or believe is always in the present/active mode, never in the past tense.

As a child, I often broke my parents rules. Between the time I broke them, and said sorry/sought forgiveness for doing so, my place in the family home was never threatened. I always did say sorry, for I loved my parents and felt bad when I broke their rules, healthy relationship had been impaired, and I had no rest or peace until I did tell them I was sorry, only then did I get my peace back

 

[Behold]

Because of His obedience He became the eternal sacrifice for sin. So that in a person's lifetime, God can have union with a sinner. When as a believer we sin, we can confess our sins,

If you believed what you wrote, you would not be confessing sin. @Rightglory

As if the sin is ETERNALLY dealt with by JESUS on the Cross...., then "confessing it" to get it dealt with AGAIN..., isn't very smart, but it certainly is very Religious.

scripture does not say one is " saved" when one is born again

Ephesians 2:8

For it is by grace you have been Saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

New Living Translation
God SAVED you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God.

English Standard Version
For by grace you have been SAVED through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Berean Standard Bible
For it is by grace you have been SAVED through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God,

Berean Literal Bible
For by grace you are saved through faith, and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

King James Bible
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

New King James Version
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

New American Standard Bible
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

NASB 1995
For by grace you have been SAVED through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

NASB 1977
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Legacy Standard Bible
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Amplified Bible
For it is by grace [God’s remarkable compassion and favor drawing you to Christ] that you have been SAVED [actually delivered from judgment and given eternal life] through faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [not through your own effort], but it is the [undeserved, gracious] gift of God;

 

[Behold]

As a child, I often broke my parents rules. Between the time I broke them, and said sorry/sought forgiveness for doing so, my place in the family home was never threatened. I always did say sorry, for I loved my parents and felt bad when I broke their rules, healthy relationship had been impaired, and I had no rest or peace until I did tell them I was sorry, only then did I get my peace back

Reader,

We can't stop being the Child of our Parents, based on "bad behavior"...

And God took us while we were "yet sinners"... and we became a Son/Daughter of God...before we ever did one good work for Him, and in fact, all we brought to God was our LIFETIME OF SIN.. for Jesus to die for, so that God could have us and keep us.

So, its really the fullness of ignorance to believe that if God saved us when we were SINNERS for LIFE... that if we are not perfect later, in our behavior, that we can stop being Saved.

You can't stop being born again.. .Reader.