The Case for Eternal Security

[St. SteVen]

Wynona said:
Yes. Salvation has conditions.

Jesus’ sacrifice was enough to be propitiation for the whole world (1 John 2:22).

That's not a condition for us. 0/1 < keeping score - zero for you/one for me.

Initially, we didn’t have to do anything to get salvation because it was a free gift of grace (Ephesians 2:8-9).

That's not a condition for us. 0/2

All we had to do was believe in Jesus’ resurrection in our hearts and confess him in our mouths (Romans 10:9).

Everyone will do that in the Age of Restoration. Every knee will bow, every tongue confess...
That's not a condition for us in the here and now. 0/3

This alone seats you in heavenly places and gets you in the Kingdom (Ephesians 2:6)

That's not a condition for us. 0/4
A benefit... yes. Not a condition.

However, you can make it all the way to the Kingdom only to be removed (Matthew 13:41, Matthew 22:12-14)

That's not a condition for us. 0/5
More like a swindle.

For not doing the Lord’s will and working iniquity (Matthew 7:21-23)

That's not a condition for us. 0/6
See 1 Corinthians 3:15. "... as one through the flames."

For unforgiveness (Matthew 6:15)

That counts. Sort of. 1/6

For not helping the least of these (Matthew 25:31-41)

That counts, BUT throws your qualification out the window. 2/6 - I'll give you that one.

For being enslaved to sin (John 8:34-36)

That's not a condition for us. 2/7
If that was true, we would all be toast.

The modern interpretation of the gospel is that Jesus saved us through grace which means we rest in His righteousness *instead* of ours as in we don’t have to have any personal good deeds. The true gospel is that Jesus saved us so we could die to sin completely and become alive to the righteousness of faith. A very practical righteousness where we do good and help our brethren and neighbors with urgent needs.

Agree, but... That's not a condition for us. 2/8

We that say that we know Him ought to walk as he walked (1 John 2:6).

Ought to? That's not a condition for us. 2/9

Want to try again? - LOL
I believe in second chances.

/

 

[simplefaith1]

Yes, i know the verse., and to explain it, is going to be hard for you to understand, because you are not grounded in Grace, or acquainted with the principle of "justification by Faith", and "not under the law, but under Grace"..

And its more then just that... also...

Try to see this, @simplefaith1

As if you read 1 John 3:9, it says that the Born again, "can't sin".

So, how does that work. ?? Its because.... "the old man of sin, is crucified with Christ" and the Christian is the "new Creation" and "old things have passed away"..

So, to understand your verse, you have to see it in the context of the verses that John teaches that say you "cant sin", and those verses by Paul that explain the "new Creation" who is "made free from sin".

Then, you have to go to Galatians to see it perfectly....

Paul says, "you are fallen from Grace" and "do not obey the Truth"..

So, all that is related to this..

"whatever is not of Faith, is SIN"..... and what that means is...

The person is trying to NOT SIN.... to remain forgiven of your sin... and that is not necessary, because as John teaches, we already have an "Advocate" in Heaven who is always making intercession for us.

And that means.....>"the blood atonement" that is the "new Covenant", is WHY we the born again are always.... found here.

"where there is no Law, there is no Transgression"..

A.) There is no sin found "IN Christ" and all the born again are "in Christ".

My friend, you do not understand the core foundation upon which the christian faith stands. Neither do you anywhere near properly understand the subject of law and grace.

The christian is not under the law, they are not under righteousness of obeying the law. However:
Do we then make void the law by faith? God forbid: Yea we establish the law Rom3:31
Jesus did not die to abolish what is holy, just and good(rom7:12) for the believer. He died to end man's condemnation under what is holy, just and good. Hence:

Christ is the end of the law UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS for everyone who believeth Rom10:4

 

[Behold]

But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ 1Cor8:12

Yes, i know the verse.

And once again, You have John and you have Paul.

John Teaches in 1 John 3:9 that the born again can't sin.

Yet, "if you sin against the Brethren"....

And yet, you can't sin, unless you are under the law, and no CHRISTian is under the law.

"where there is no law, there is no sin"..

So, what you are reading is not a dictionary, .. you are reading teachings that are spiritually discerned.. not just to be understood as if you are reading the contents in a box of chocolate.

If we just read verses, taken out of context, then its just words, not truth.

 

[St. SteVen]

But you are in error regarding the Eastern/Greek, Orthodox Church. The Catholic Church declared it heresy by the Fifth Ecumenical Council 553.

Did you seriously write that? (appears so)
Do you understand...? never mind... (sigh)

Apocatastasis’ Condemnation During the Council of Constantinople II

/

 

[Behold]

Jesus did not die to abolish what is holy,

Here is what Christ had done with what you dont understand and referred to as "HOLY"

"Christ is the END of the LAW..for Righteousness, to everyone who Believes".

"Christ has redeemed the born again, from the = CURSE of the LAW"..


So, when you put yourself under the law, you make the Cross of Christ, "void", and you "fall from Grace".

If you are not truly born again, then it does not matter.

If you teach that Christ saved us so that we can go back under the law that defines you as a sinner. then you are teaching against the Cross of Christ, and you are this.

Galatians 1:8

 

[simplefaith1]

Yes, i know the verse.

And once again, You have John and you have Paul.

John Teaches in 1 John 3:9 that the born again can't sin.

Yet, "if you sin against the Brethren"....

And yet, you can't sin, unless you are under the law, and no CHRISTian is under the law.

"where there is no law, there is no sin"..

So, what you are reading is not a dictionary, .. you are reading teachings that are spiritually discerned.. not just to be understood as if you are reading the contents in a box of chocolate.

If we just read verses, taken out of context, then its just words, not truth.

Im afraid you cannot bring the bible into cohesion can you. Sin is written about in two different ways in scripture, just the same as every christian I have ever known views sin in two different ways, and as did John:


If we(John includes himself in the we) say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1John1:8

 

[simplefaith1]

Here is what Christ had done with what you dont understand and referred to as "HOLY"

"Christ is the END of the LAW...for Righteousness, to everyone who Believes".

"Christ has redeemed the born again, from the CURSE of the LAW"..


So, when you put yourself under the law, you make the Cross of Christ, "void", and you "fall from Grace".

If you teach that Christ saved us so that we can go back under the law that defines you as a sinner the you are teaching against the Cross of Christ, and you are this.

Galatians 1:8

You really have such little understanding of this subject.
When you are under the law you are under righteousnses of obeying the law. So, if what is written in what is holy, just and good still exists, but Jesus died for your transgressions of what is holy, just and good you have no righteousness of obeying the law, and therefore you are not under law, you are not under its condemnation

 

[Behold]

Im afraid you cannot bring the bible into cohesion can you

I can teach you, but i can't understand it for you.

Get rid of your NIV.

And go here.. for a while.

Romans 3:21-28

Hebrews 13:9

2 Corinthians 5:19

John 3:17

Romans 4:8


@simplefaith1 , you have to learn that SIN has been dealt with by Jesus on the Cross of Christ., and once you do, you'll stop obsessing about sin, and "confessing it", and so forth.

You are not there yet...

You are this one...

Hebrews 6:1

 

[simplefaith1]

I can teach you, but i can't understand it for you.

Get rid of your NIV.

And go here.. for a while.

Romans 3:21-28

Hebrews 13:9

2 Corinthians 5:19

John 3:17

Romans 4:8


@simplefaith1 , you have to learn that SIN has been dealt with by Jesus on the Cross of Christ., and once you do, you'll stop obsessing about sin, and "confessing it", and so forth.

You are not there yet...

You are this one...

Hebrews 6:1

Im afraid you cannot teach me anything of this subject for you do not properly understand it

 

[Behold]

When you are under the law you are under righteousnses of obeying the law.

@simplefaith1

If you are under the law, there are 2 reasons..

1.) you are not a Christian Yet.........you are religious but lost......You are not born again, yet.

2.) You are a Christian, but you are "fallen from Grace" and are "In the Flesh" which is why you are worried about sin and LAW.

 

[Behold]

Im afraid you cannot teach me anything of this subject for you do not properly understand it

If and when you get rid of that NIV, and if you will study those verses i showed you, then you can come to the knowledge of the Truth regarding "law" vs "Grace".

Ok then.

 

[Behold]

Everyone will do that in the Age of Restoration.

What is this theological ????? = nonsense?

 

[simplefaith1]

I can teach you, but i can't understand it for you.

Get rid of your NIV.

And go here.. for a while.

Romans 3:21-28

Hebrews 13:9

2 Corinthians 5:19

John 3:17

Romans 4:8


@simplefaith1 , you have to learn that SIN has been dealt with by Jesus on the Cross of Christ., and once you do, you'll stop obsessing about sin, and "confessing it", and so forth.

You are not there yet...

You are this one...

Hebrews 6:1

Every christian I have ever known, would say they know in their mind God does not want them to commit adultery, murder, steal, bear false witness etc. And, every christian I have ever known would say in their heart(the flesh is another matter) they do not want to do those things

I will write my laws in their minds and place them on their hearts

Because God does that for believers:

THEN HE ADDS

Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more

So, no condemnation, no being under righteousness of obeying the law

 

[simplefaith1]

If and when you get rid of that NIV, and if you will study those verses i showed you, then you can come to the knowledge of the Truth regarding "law" vs "Grace".

Ok then.

I know all of those verses, they are pretty much all underlined in my bible. Reading the bible is not enough, you have to be able to discern what is written. The pharisees could quote the letter of the then scriptures off pat, but they did not understand the message the letter contained

 

[Behold]

Every christian I have ever known, would say they know in their mind God does not want them to commit adultery, murder, steal, bear false witness

"present your body as a living sacrifice, to God, which is your reasonable service".

Why do you do that for God?

Because God has taken the blood and death of Jesus and applied it to the Believer which forgives all their sin, FOREVER.

So, isn't it REASONABLE.....( that if God has done this for the Believer), then they can live their life in appreciation?

Isn't that REASONABLE as a way to SERVE God?

But its not required for Salvation, as what God required to Create Salvation was Jesus on The Cross.

Jesus is Salvation..

Not you trying to be good, or keep law.

 

[simplefaith1]

If and when you get rid of that NIV, and if you will study those verses i showed you, then you can come to the knowledge of the Truth regarding "law" vs "Grace".

Ok then.

"present your body as a living sacrifice, to God, which is your reasonable service".

Why do you do that for God?

Because God has taken the blood and death of Jesus and applied it to the Believer which forgives all their sin, FOREVER.

So, isn't it REASONABLE that if God has done this for the Believer, then they can live their life in appreciation?

Isn't that REASONABLE?

But its not required for Salvation, as what God required to Create Salvation was Jesus on The Cross.

Jesus is Salvation..

Not you trying to be good, or keep law.

I will prove to you, you do not understand Paul properly:

But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.



18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
Gal2:17&18 KJV

So, people seeking to be justified BY Christ are found sinners!

What justification is Paul writing about, for it is clearly a justification that takes time to be seen, justification is instantaneous at conversion

Why does Paul ask the question:
Is Christ the minister of sin?

And what does he mean when he states:



18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

 

[Behold]

I know all of those verses, they are pretty much all underlined in my bible.

Get rid of the NIV.
Put it in the TRASH CAN where it is designed to go.

"behold, how do i find a real bible".

Good question.

Find a real one here.


Look at 1 Timothy 3:16..... Does it say "he" or "the one"..........vs......"GOD was manifested in the flesh?

If it says "God" then look for one more verse...

John 4:24.

"God is A Spirit"... vs "god is spirit".

See those 2?

"God was Manifested " and not "he or the one, or the force"..

and

"God is A Spirit", and not.... "god is spirit".

Look carefully for those in a REAL Bible as if those 2 are not "God Manifested" and "God is A Spirit".. then find a real bible, as it will have those verses as they should appear.

 

[simplefaith1]

Get rid of the NIV.
Put it in the TRASH CAN where it is designed to go.

"behold, how do i find a real bible".

Good question.

Find a real one here.


Look at 1 Timothy 3:16..... Does it say "he" or "the one"..........vs......"GOD was manifested in the flesh?

If it says "God" then look for one more verse...

John 4:24.

"God is A Spirit"... vs "god is spirit".

See those 2?

"God was Manifested " and not "he or the one, or the force"..

and

"God is A Spirit", and now "god is spirit".

Look carefully for those in a REAL Bible as if those 2 are not "God Manifested" and "God is A Spirit".. then find a real bible, as it will have those verses as they should appear.

Oh Ive been quoting the KJV to you. Unfortunately you put your faith to learn in translations, I do not! Paul says we do not make void the law by faith KJV.
You need to read and understand the bible as one cohesive whole, the truth will always escape you until you do

 

[Behold]

18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
Gal2:17&18 KJV

A born again Believer, can "fall from Grace"., and become a LEGALIST.

You can become A Legalist., and that is what Paul is explaining to those Galatians who are "in the Flesh", and "no longer obey the Truth". he told YOU.

So, when He says.. "I make myself a Transgressor" because i build again those things which The Cross Destroyed"..

= In other words....once your faith is broken, you will get into a carnal mind, that BELIEVES that you are to keep the LAW to try to please God and Stay saved..

That is LEGALISM... "fallen from Grace".

There you are, @simplefaith1

Go and read Philippians 3, as Paul said that he was 'BLAMELESS in the LAW" and all "his righteousness" that you are trying to describe, as "self righteousness" (law keeping), is : "DUNG".

There is your Theology as Paul is explaining to you.

So, people seeking to be justified BY Christ are found sinners!

No,
people who are seeking to be justified by the law, are "fallen from Grace" which means they have lost the Truth. or as Paul said of those Law and sin obsessed Galatians..."you no longer obey the Truth

Paul says....."that you no longer OBEY the Truth", and are "in the Flesh"..

"the Flesh" is... "im trying to keep law to be saved and stay saved" because Im "fallen from Grace"..


The Flesh is....>"if i dont forget to confess all my sin, then when i die i go to heaven".. (I hope i didnt forget any, as i lived to be 97)..

Good luck with that, Legalist.

What justification is Paul writing about, for it is clearly a justification that takes time to be seen,

Paul says in 1 Corinthians 1:30 that Jesus is our Justification, Sanctification and Redemption

(you'll need a real bible) or you are going to continue to be stuck in reverse, regarding your theology and belief system, @simplefaith1

Why does Paul ask the question:
Is Christ the minister of sin?

No, .......the Law is power of sin.

"Christ came to redeem the born again from the CURSE of THE LAW""""

18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

Its to become "in the flesh" "fallen from Grace"......going backwards to try to be saved by the OLD Covenant, that is "moses law" and "10 commandments".

See, Christ is the NEW Covenant, and that is "not under the Law, but under Grace".

 

[simplefaith1]

A born again Believer, can "fall from Grace"., and become a LEGALIST.

You can become A Legalist., and that is what Paul is explaining to those Galatians who are "in the Flesh", and "no longer obey the Truth". he told YOU.

So, when He says.. "I make myself a Transgressor" because i build again those things which The Cross Destroyed"..

= In other words....once your faith is broken, you will get into a carnal mind, that BELIEVES that you are to keep the LAW to try to please God and Stay saved..

That is LEGALISM... "fallen from Grace".

There you are, @simplefaith1

Go and read Philippians 3, as Paul said that he was 'BLAMELESS in the LAW" and all "his righteousness" that you are trying to describe, as "self righteousness" (law keeping), is : "DUNG".

There is your Theology as Paul is explaining to you.



No,
people who are seeking to be justified by the law, are "fallen from Grace" which means they have lost the Truth. or as Paul said of those Law and sin obsessed Galatians..."you no longer obey the Truth

Paul says....."that you no longer OBEY the Truth", and are "in the Flesh"..

"the Flesh" is... "im trying to keep law to be saved and stay saved" because Im "fallen from Grace"..


The Flesh is....>"if i dont forget to confess all my sin, then when i die i go to heaven".. (I hope i didnt forget any, as i lived to be 97)..

Good luck with that, Legalist.



Paul says in 1 Corinthians 1:30 that Jesus is our Justification, Sanctification and Redemption

(you'll need a real bible) or you are going to continue to be stuck in reverse, regarding your theology and belief system, @simplefaith1


No, .......the Law is power of sin.

"Christ came to redeem the born again from the CURSE of THE LAW""""



Its to become "in the flesh" "fallen from Grace"......going backwards to try to be saved by the OLD Covenant, that is "moses law" and "10 commandments".

See, Christ is the NEW Covenant, and that is "not under the Law, but under Grace".

Hopeless Im afraid, you are way off. I will give you the correct answers