...

[BlessedPeace]

It's only good news for those who hear it as good news but for the rest it isn't good news and it will fall on deaf ears, be dismissed or rejected. This is the intent of the Giver of the good news. He only wants His own chosen elected ones to respond, no one else.

When my own children were young I had a particular sound specific to each one to get their atattention. It came in handy in a group setting. When I was ready to get the family together to go home I would find each child, make their sound, they would respond by giving me their attention and following my instruction.

In one particular group situation, I didn't want to give out a general call for everyone to get into my car and come home with me. There was too many of them. Plus I had a plan for my family and another that included everyone else.
Plan #1 As a family we were going to go home to prepare for a party.
Plan # 2 An invitation was given to everyone, for everyone to attend the party later on.

My Father God has that with us. He knows exactly how to get His children's attention and to give them His instructions. This is pretty cool. These will reign with Jesus in His kingdom. Then afterwards ALL will respond to the invitation to enter into Father's kingdom and this reunion party will never end.

Now that's good news, the gospel.

The description as you narrate it doesn't make it sound like good news.

 

[The Learner]

My Dad used a two by four to get my attention.

 

[The Learner]

View attachment 44788

My Dad used a two by four to get my attention.

 

[One 2 question]

The description as you narrate it doesn't make it sound like good news.

Again, God communicates one thing to me which is fantastic news. To you it is not. I'm so glad I have no responsibility whatsoever how you respond to God.

I love the story of Noah, the ark and the animals that boarded the ark. It seems that God saw to it that only a certain number of every kind of animal responded to God's instruction to come and enter the ark. Noah had no responsibility as to what animals would join him and his family on the ark.

Judging by the size of the ark, it could not accommodate all the humans Noah interacted with, let alone all the animal that lived on the earth at that time .

Like all the elephants, the dogs, lizards, koalas, tigers etc, besides the male and female of each kind God chose, all other humans were not required, therefore did not and could not respond to their Creator.

Father does not need many from every tribe, tongue, people or nation to be IN Christ, IN His body to make it through into the new kingdom.

 

[St. SteVen]

Father does not need many from every tribe, tongue, people or nation to be IN Christ, IN His body to make it through into the new kingdom.

Say what?

- What does Father need?
- Is He saving face to save a FEW from every tribe, tongue, people or nation?
- Would saving two fulfill His quota?
- Does that sound like a victory?
- What will he do with the rest?
- Is it not his will that all be saved?
- Can the will of humankind thwart the will of God?

]

 

[Phoneman777]

Hi everyone. I hope this is the right place to post about it! I imagine talking about this belief can be controversial, so I have put it under the Unorthodox Doctrine Forum. Please let me know if this is the appropriate place to discuss this or if this is allowed to be discussed. Thank you kindly.

Anyways, let me introduce myself, since this is my first post here. Hi, my name is Harold Samson. On other forums I got by the names Harold Samsong, HSong, or just simply Song.

My beliefs that are relevant to this discussion are as follows:
-> Everyone goes to Heaven.
-> Specifically, everyone will be saved through Jesus Christ.
-> Salvation is through faith alone in Jesus Christ, not of works.
-> Once saved, always saved. You cannot lose your salvation.
and other basic tenants

If you need any more clarification, I will be more than happy to provide.

Now, here's the part where I provide Bible verses to support this position.

1 Timothy 4:10 Jesus Christ, the savior of all men, especially those who believe.​

Some believers may wonder what the point of believing is if God will save everyone. But, the way I see it, believing in Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation, meaning that everyone will eventually believe that God is Jesus Christ. So for us believers, we believe in God in advance, having learned the truth out of grace, and doing good because of our love for Christ!

1 John 3:5: "You know that He [Jesus] appeared to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin."

There is no sin in God, God’s existence cannot allow sin. Therefore, God will go to each person in the world and use Jesus Christ as the cover for those sins, allowing everyone to be saved through Him.

Genesis 12:3 In you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.

Everyone will receive God’s blessing of salvation! All families of the Earth means everyone, as everyone comes from the original family, are original descendants, of Adam and Eve.

Psalm NIV 118:1 Give thanks to the Lord, for He is good; His love endures forever.

God’s love for all the people on Earth will never end, all will be saved.

1 Corinthians 15:55: "O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?"

God will not let death win! In the coming age, there will be no more death, no more suffering, for anyone. Because God will save everyone!

I will leave it at those 5 for now, though I have plenty more than I can reference.

If you agree or disagree with these beliefs, then feel free to let me know why. I'm always curious and interested to know your reasons. I encourage an open discussion on all fronts.

Thank you all for reading this and I hope everyone has a wonderful day! :)

Can't wait to meet Satan in heaven and ask him why he thought he could be God.

 

[St. SteVen]

Can't wait to meet Satan in heaven and ask him why he thought he could be God.

... every tongue and every knee... - Philippians 2:10-11

It will be quite a Day. (Age)

]

 

[Hillsage]

Say what?

- What does Father need?
- Is He saving face to save a FEW from every tribe, tongue, people or nation?
- Would saving two fulfill His quota?
- Does that sound like a victory?
- What will he do with the rest?
- Is it not his will that all be saved?
- Can the will of humankind thwart the will of God?

You may have missed it In post 1029. 12 said; "These will reign with Jesus in His kingdom. Then afterwards ALL will respond to the invitation to enter into Father's kingdom and this reunion party will never end."

 

[St. SteVen]

My Father God has that with us. He knows exactly how to get His children's attention and to give them His instructions. This is pretty cool. These will reign with Jesus in His kingdom. Then afterwards ALL will respond to the invitation to enter into Father's kingdom and this reunion party will never end.

AMEN!
Sorry I missed this earlier. @Hillsage pointed it out to me. Thanks!

I just remembered a topic I launched quite a while ago. (your username reminded me of it)

Seven questions

]

 

[Phoneman777]

... every tongue and every knee... - Philippians 2:10-11

It will be quite a Day. (Age)

]

Yep, the way I read it, New Jerusalem descends to Earth 1,000 years after the Second Coming with all the saints who were resurrected 1,000 years prior as the wicked of all ages are coming up in the Resurrection of the Damned, and after some time they advance toward the City to surround it...when all of a sudden their attention is arrested by the sudden appearance of Jesus high above the City in the "Great White Throne Judgment" which at that moment causes all to be convicted of their guilt of the Unpardonable Sin - any sin from which we refuse to repent - and in that moment of overwhelming guilt, they are compelled to drop down to their knees and confess Jesus was right and that they deserve the fiery destruction about to fall down from God out of heaven.

It seems, perhaps, Satan finally realizes he's come to the end of his existence, and in one last ditch effort to save themselves rallies the innumerable multitude to run up and surround the City to take it by force, but the fire comes down and puts an end to their rebellion permanently.

 

[St. SteVen]

... in that moment of overwhelming guilt, they are compelled to drop down to their knees and confess Jesus was right...

I like the detail in your post. And it brings some eschatology into the event.
But in the quoted bit above, I want you to consider the definition of the NT Greek word "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11.
Their motivation is not guilt or forced compulsion. They will whole-heartedly, and without reservation,
acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

]

 

[Phoneman777]

I like the detail in your post. And it brings some eschatology into the event.
But in the quoted bit above, I want you to consider the definition of the NT Greek word "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11.
Their motivation is not guilt or forced compulsion. They will whole-heartedly, and without reservation,
acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

]

Yes, but such a shame it will be too late. What a sad thing for a man to cross the point of no return.

"There is a line, unseen,
which crosses every path;
the hidden boundary between,
God's mercy and His wrath."

 

[Hillsage]

Can't wait to meet Satan in heaven and ask him why he thought he could be God.

Actually you don't have to wait....says the bible...for the last millennia . ;)

2CO 4:4* In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the likeness of God.

And this verse above was written AFTER the cross. That's why the theology of the NOMINAL deNOMINAtions are so full of division. Division which started with the great apostasy of the 'church of ROME' mingled with 'man's government of ROME' in 400 AD.

It seems, perhaps, Satan finally realizes he's come to the end of his existence, and in one last ditch effort to save themselves rallies the innumerable multitude to run up and surround the City to take it by force, but the fire comes down and puts an end to their rebellion permanently.

No, just the 'end of HIS MINISTRY time' for God.

1CO 5:5* deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

I've never heard a sermon preached (in the NOMINAL church) on how 'God uses SATAN to save the spirits of men in the day of the Lord Jesus.....have you?

 

[BlessedPeace]

Again, God communicates one thing to me which is fantastic news. To you it is not. I'm so glad I have no responsibility whatsoever how you respond to God.

I love the story of Noah, the ark and the animals that boarded the ark. It seems that God saw to it that only a certain number of every kind of animal responded to God's instruction to come and enter the ark. Noah had no responsibility as to what animals would join him and his family on the ark.

Judging by the size of the ark, it could not accommodate all the humans Noah interacted with, let alone all the animal that lived on the earth at that time .

Like all the elephants, the dogs, lizards, koalas, tigers etc, besides the male and female of each kind God chose, all other humans were not required, therefore did not and could not respond to their Creator.

Father does not need many from every tribe, tongue, people or nation to be IN Christ, IN His body to make it through into the new kingdom.

I'm grateful Christ Jesus isn't the one you hear speaking.

 

[Hillsage]

Yes, but such a shame it will be too late. What a sad thing for a man to cross the point of no return.

"There is a line, unseen,
which crosses every path;
the hidden boundary between,
God's mercy and His wrath."

Not a bible quote. Ashamed of your source? Still a very true statement,though. Just needs a little LIGHT shined on its shortcoming.

1JO 2:2* He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

2434 hilasmos: atonement, i.e. (concr.) an expiator

ROM 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

2CO 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

As I read 2Co above, it is only men, and not the bible, who limits God to some "point of no return." Granted they do so with bible translations which aren't the best in our opinions.

 

[Hillsage]

I'm grateful Christ Jesus isn't the one you hear speaking.

Now there is a HEART revealing ATTITUDE. For the 10 years after I first studied this doctrinal POV I always, at least HOPED it was true. Because it at least spoke of a Jesus who was more loving and more forgiving than I was indoctrinated to believe in.

MAT 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48* Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

It's pretty obvious that 'being perfect' is a pretty high goal for most to even HOPE for, let alone BELIEVE in. Not only is it too lofty of a goal for the church to reach, but apparently not even the LORD that most believe in, can even hope for.....except in these verses above.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Now there is a HEART revealing ATTITUDE. For the 10 years after I first studied this doctrinal POV I always, at least HOPED it was true. Because it at least spoke of a Jesus who was more loving and more forgiving than I was indoctrinated to believe in.

MAT 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48* Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

It's pretty obvious that 'being perfect' is a pretty high goal for most to even HOPE for, let alone BELIEVE in. Not only is it too lofty of a goal for the church to reach, but apparently not even the LORD that most believe in, can even hope for.....except in these verses above.

It's an unattainable goal,to be perfect as Jesus was perfect. God knows. Because by God's will we were born imperfect. Because the sins of the father of humanity, Adam, passed unto his offspring,humanity in toto.

However, adding that perfect attribute to scripture insures no believer in it shall ever feel good enough. And as such while they are told they are no longer enslaved to sin,they instead are enslaved to the ideology they must strive to be perfect like Christ was.

I don't think we can ever dismiss the influence those who compiled the New Testament had on its final draft.

In fact that influence and practice is what led Luther to revolt against the institution of Romes Catholic church.

Further, If we read the OT first and if we opine, God does not change! He is the same yesterday,today,and forever, and we accept Jesus was God in flesh who dwelt among us,we realize God said he held regret for having created humans.

If we have ever uttered the Lord's prayer,or concur with its tenets, we must concede we are exactly as God willed us to be.

Many people don't reason out what they hold faith in.
We seek to be saved not from Satan. But from God.
God judges whether we go to Heaven or Hell. And this after he'd already predetermined our fate in that regard before he created the world, or anything at all.
His judgement of us already occurred before we were born. And before the world was created.

No one comes to Jesus unless God calls them.

Because God elected whom he would save,by name,before anything was made.
Even before the fall.

Think about that.

We're born by God's will as sinners first. And we die that way unless God saved us by name before he created the world.

We wonder why some Christians act badly? Maybe because they're not in God's Lamb's Book of Eternal Life (Salvation). And as such the HS does not dwell in them.

Romes influence on scripture is unmistakable.
Because if God does not change, he certainly wouldn't tell us to love our enemies when he slaughtered his.

 

[Phoneman777]

Actually you don't have to wait....says the bible...for the last millennia . ;)

"...and never shalt thou (Satan) be anymore". - Ezekiel 28

I've never heard a sermon preached (in the NOMINAL church) on how 'God uses SATAN to save the spirits of men in the day of the Lord Jesus.....have you?

Ever heard a sermon on how "suffering is redemptive"? How that sometimes a man never looks up until he's flat on his back or how that sometimes a man doesn't get on his knees until the burden is to heavy to bear?

I've heard of "delivering" aka "sentencing" of apostate Christians to disfellowship whereby they are put out of the church and back into the world, where Satan may resume his cruel dominion over them, in the hope that through suffering they might turn and seek the Lord once again.

 

[One 2 question]

Yep, the way I read it, New Jerusalem descends to Earth 1,000 years after the Second Coming with all the saints who were resurrected 1,000 years prior as the wicked of all ages are coming up in the Resurrection of the Damned, and after some time they advance toward the City to surround it...when all of a sudden their attention is arrested by the sudden appearance of Jesus high above the City in the "Great White Throne Judgment" which at that moment causes all to be convicted of their guilt of the Unpardonable Sin - any sin from which we refuse to repent - and in that moment of overwhelming guilt, they are compelled to drop down to their knees and confess Jesus was right and that they deserve the fiery destruction about to fall down from God out of heaven.

It seems, perhaps, Satan finally realizes he's come to the end of his existence, and in one last ditch effort to save themselves rallies the innumerable multitude to run up and surround the City to take it by force, but the fire comes down and puts an end to their rebellion permanently.

Thanks for the summary of what one can read in more detail in the book of Revelation.

Yet what happens after this brief period (around 7000 years) of human existence?

 

[Hillsage]

It's an unattainable goal,to be perfect as Jesus was perfect. God knows. Because by God's will we were born imperfect. Because the sins of the father of humanity, Adam, passed unto his offspring,humanity in toto.

That is a bad teaching from the nominal churches theology. I'm only going to name a FEW verses that disagree. I pretty sure you can't name one supporting it's not attainable.

2CO 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect,.. KJV, YLT
2TI 3:16* All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, KJV
JAM 1:4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect. KJV RSV YLT
MAT 5:48* Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. KJV RSV NAS YLT
EPH 4:13* till we may all come to the unity of the faith and of the recognition of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to a measure of stature of the fulness of the Christ, KJV, YLT

Further, If we read the OT first and if we opine, God does not change! He is the same yesterday,today,and forever, and we accept Jesus was God in flesh who dwelt among us,we realize God said he held regret for having created humans.

I see several 'changes' in how God dealt with his creation in the ages past and the present one we're in. Just the difference between the OT and the NT is huge IMO. I believe that the only, "does not change" attribute of JESUS, pertains ONLY to His ultimate goal for His total creation in this age he came in. And His work isn't complete until the last age of COMPLETE/PERFECTION.

EXO 6:2* And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD: 3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

He changed his NAMES many times in dealing with the ages of His creation. The last hat was JESUS.

YLT HEB 13:8 Jesus Christ yesterday and to-day the same, and to the ages;

Many people don't reason out what they hold faith in.

And many times don't back up with scripture, that which has so far been refuted IMO.

We seek to be saved not from Satan. But from God.
And his judgement that already occurred before we were born. And before the world was created.

I have found MOST only seek to be saved from ETERNAL HELL. Not a verse to support that. But save YOURSELF????? verse 40 below.

ACT 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift FROM THE Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise (OF HOLY SPIRIT POWER) is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

The words "of the" in verse 38 are not saying you get the person of the Holy Spirit as "the gift". You get the POWER/gift FROM the PERSON/giver. The Greek word tou 5120 and is possessive in definition.
You no more get THE HOLY SPIRIT in verse 38, than you get THE FATHER in "the Promise OF THE Father."

No one comes to Jesus unless God calls them. Because God elected whom he would save,by name,before anything was made.
Even before the fall.

No, the FATHER draws them. NOT GOD because that would be FATHER SON and HOLY SPIRIT.
JOH 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

And whoever wasn't "DRAWN (GR. DRAGGED) by the FATHER can't come to Jesus. So he CAN'T get saved by Jesus this side of glory. So he has to be saved "at the last day" of another age than the one he lived in. No one in the OT or before the curse of 'The Law' could 'call upon the ONLY NAME by which one can be saved, because Jesus wasn't even born.

That's why 'the hope' for most, isn't even in the age we are in now. Their hopes are in future ages for receiving the GRACE for SALVATION that was given to us in THIS AGE.

EPH 2:7* that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his (SAVING) grace in kindness toward us (IN THIS AGE) in Christ Jesus.
8* For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God --

To God be the glory of YOUR /MY/THEIR SALVATION.

Think about that. We're born by God's will as sinners first. And we die that way unless God saved us by name before he created the world.

We wonder why some Christians act badly? Maybe because they're not in God's Lamb's Book of Eternal Life (Salvation). And as such the HS does not dwell in them.

I would agree totally. The rest CAN"T get saved because they weren't "predestined, foreordained, chosen or called"; all terms dependent upon God and not us.