Grace Does Not Cover Unbelief

[JBO]

No one is spiritually born again 2x.

To be spiritually born again, one must have been spiritually born at least once already..

 

[brightfame52]

Believers were saved by Christs death alone because by His death alone He for them, before they became believers obtained for them eternal redemption Heb 9:12

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

 

[JBO]

Believers were saved by Christs death alone because by His death alone He for them, before they became believers obtained for them eternal redemption Heb 9:12

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

It doesn't say anywhere that believers were saved before they became believers. Jesus obtained redemption for the whole world. But it is only believers who benefits from that. It never speaks of salvation of non-believers. The redemption is in the ransom paid. That ransom covers any who believe, but only those who believe. Belief always precedes salvation.

 

[brightfame52]

@JBO

It doesn't say anywhere that believers were saved before they became believers.

It says it just not in a way you can understand it. They have Eternal Redemption before they believe it, since Christ obtained it for them. The word redemption here lytrōsis:

1. a ransoming, redemption
2. deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin

Before they believe they have been delivered from the penalty of sin, that's saved right there. The penalty of of sin is death Rom 6:23

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Jesus obtained redemption for the whole world.

False,many will and have died in the penalty of their sins, death, like these Rev 20:13-14

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

That cant happen to anyone Christ obtained eternal redemption for.

 

[JBO]

@JBO



It says it just not in a way you can understand it. They have Eternal Redemption before they believe it, since Christ obtained it for them. The word redemption here lytrōsis:

1. a ransoming, redemption
2. deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin

Before they believe they have been delivered from the penalty of sin, that's saved right there. The penalty of of sin is death Rom 6:23

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

False,many will and have died in the penalty of their sins, death, like these Rev 20:13-14

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

That cant happen to anyone Christ obtained eternal redemption for.

Christ obtained eternal redemption for the world.

Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Christ's sacrifice was sufficient for the whole world. It was the ransom paid to God for the sins of the world. It the basis by which God can forgive. It's power was/is not limited. The means by which anyone obtains that forgiveness is faith, the belief in God.


Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it--
Rom 3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
Rom 3:26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

 

[brightfame52]

Heb 10:10.14 prove that those Christ died for are saved legally and perfectly before they believe solely by the offering of Christ which speaks to His death for them

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering/death of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

14 For by one offering/death he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

How can one be perfected and not be saved ? 1

 

[brightfame52]

@JBO

Christ obtained eternal redemption for the world.

Absolutely false since many will suffer eternally for the penalty of their sins, which that cant happen to the redeemed. The word redemption means

1. a ransoming, redemption
2. deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin

Matt Poole writes:

Having obtained eternal redemption for us; when he with the incense of his merit and prayer to the just and merciful Judge, even God his Father, sued for, found, obtained, and fully received eternal redemption for sinners; i.e. deliverance of their guilty persons from eternal death, full remission of all their sins, Romans 3:25,26, full reconciliation to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18,19,21, with an instating them into all spiritual good. This work is styled

eternal, because its virtue is of perpetual continuance, which freeth the duly qualified subjects {Colossians 1:21,23} from the guilt and punishment of all sins for ever.

 

[brightfame52]

Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Christ death alone redeemed them He died for from the curse of the law, so they were saved from hell and dying in their sins before they believed.

 

[JBO]

Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Christ death alone redeemed them He died for from the curse of the law, so they were saved from hell and dying in their sins before they believed.

Suppose your child is taken and held for ransom and you pay the ransom. If your child is 18 years old and decides, for whatever reason, not to come home, that doesn't mean the ransom was not paid. So yes, Christ paid the ransom for all. But some have decided not to "come home".

 

[brightfame52]

Suppose your child is taken and held for ransom and you pay the ransom. If your child is 18 years old and decides, for whatever reason, not to come home, that doesn't mean the ransom was not paid. So yes, Christ paid the ransom for all. But some have decided not to "come home".

It doesnt matter what the child decides in this case, the ones Jesus died for are redeemed from the curse of the Law, has nothing to do with what someone else decided.

The one redeemed is also delivered from the power of another, that being the devil

The word is exagorazō :

1. 1. by payment of a price to recover from the power of another, to ransom, buy off
   2. metaph. of Christ freeing the elect from the dominion of the Mosaic Law at the price of his vicarious death
2. to buy up, to buy up for one's self, for one's use

This has nothing to do with the ones being redeemed decision, will or anything, this is all motivated by the Glory of God

 

[JBO]

It doesnt matter what the child decides in this case, the ones Jesus died for are redeemed from the curse of the Law, has nothing to do with what someone else decided.

The one redeemed is also delivered from the power of another, that being the devil

The word is exagorazō :

1. 1. by payment of a price to recover from the power of another, to ransom, buy off
   2. metaph. of Christ freeing the elect from the dominion of the Mosaic Law at the price of his vicarious death
2. to buy up, to buy up for one's self, for one's use

This has nothing to do with the ones being redeemed decision, will or anything, this is all motivated by the Glory of God

I agree with those definitions. But it has everything to do with the decisions of the redeemed. Clearly you have the wrong definition of the word eklektos. The elect are those who have been freed, not vice versa. And yes, those who have been freed depends upon their decision to accept the redemption. The Calvinist definition of election and reprobation is pure heresy. It demeans God in the most terrible way, making Him to be most onerous.

 

[Ritajanice]

Jesus explains that a person cannot be redeemed unless they are "born again."The Greek phrase can also mean "born from above." Nicodemus doesn't fully understand this. People frequently misinterpreted Jesus' spiritual teachings in overly physical ways.

No one knows who will become Born Again..only God knows..please don’t listen to the above teachings, it’s very much = un- truth.

Man made religion.

 

[JBO]

Jesus explains that a person cannot be redeemed unless they are "born again."

Where does He say that?

The truth is that He doesn't say that anywhere. What he says, through the apostle Paul by the Holy Spirit, is


Gal 3:14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

 

[brightfame52]

I agree with those definitions. But it has everything to do with the decisions of the redeemed. Clearly you have the wrong definition of the word eklektos. The elect are those who have been freed, not vice versa. And yes, those who have been freed depends upon their decision to accept the redemption. The Calvinist definition of election and reprobation is pure heresy. It demeans God in the most terrible way, making Him to be most onerous.

Sorry, this is strictly a legal matter, the decision of the redeemed is a non issue. The elect have been redeemed from the curse of the Law, so they cant be condemned by the Law, not ever, they cant be condemned for sin. See sin gets its strength from the Law 1 Cor 15 56

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

So none for whom Christ died will ever experience this Rev 20:14

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 

[JBO]

Sorry, this is strictly a legal matter, the decision of the redeemed is a non issue. The elect have been redeemed from the curse of the Law, so they cant be condemned by the Law, not ever, they cant be condemned for sin. See sin gets its strength from the Law 1 Cor 15 56

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

So none for whom Christ died will ever experience this Rev 20:14

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

It is not those who are elect who become saved; rather it is those who are saved that become the elect (Rom 8:28-30).

 

[brightfame52]

It is not those who are elect who become saved; rather it is those who are saved that become the elect (Rom 8:28-30).

Everyone Christ died for is redeemed from the curse of the law, and since everyone isnt thus redeemed, its only the elect, and thats why they believe. All who have been redeemed from the curse are given the Spirit, the Blessing of Abraham Gal 3:13-14

3 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

[JBO]

Everyone Christ died for is redeemed from the curse of the law, and since everyone isnt thus redeemed, its only the elect, and thats why they believe. All who have been redeemed from the curse are given the Spirit, the Blessing of Abraham Gal 3:13-14

3 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Well now, neither verse 13 nor verse 14 says what you are positing here. However verse 14 certainly says that Calvinism is wrong when it says that regeneration is required first before one can believe. It says specifically that we "receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."

That is just one more bit of soteriology that Calvinists get wrong.

 

[brightfame52]

Christs death alone Justified many, hence acquitted them before Gods law and justice without their believing Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

 

[brightfame52]

Well now, neither verse 13 nor verse 14 says what you are positing here. However verse 14 certainly says that Calvinism is wrong when it says that regeneration is required first before one can believe. It says specifically that we "receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."

That is just one more bit of soteriology that Calvinists get wrong.

The redeemed from the curse of the Law Gal 3:13 will receive the Spirit in their heart which gives them Faith to believe Gal 3:13-14

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

The word Faith here isnt speaking of the redeemed ones act of faith, because in the original it has the definite article, the Faith

ἵνα εἰς τὰ ἔθνη ἡ εὐλογία τοῦ Ἀβραὰμ γένηται ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ ἵνα τὴν ἐπαγγελίαν τοῦ πνεύματος λάβωμεν διὰ τῆς πίστεως

I believe the faith here is Christ or the doctrine of the Faith. The same greek construction is used by Paul a few verses later here

Vs 23

But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Πρὸ τοῦ δὲ ἐλθεῖν τὴν πίστιν ὑπὸ νόμον ἐφρουρούμεθα συγκεκλεισμένοι εἰς τὴν μέλλουσαν πίστιν ἀποκαλυφθῆναι

Vs 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster

ἐλθούσης δὲ τῆς πίστεως οὐκέτι ὑπὸ παιδαγωγόν ἐσμεν

So in this context faith with the definite article never refers to the believers Faith act.

So the Spirit is given upon every person redeemed,

Just like Gal 4:4-6

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

So the redeemed will have the Spirit sent forth into their hearts producing Faith

None of this has anything to do with the redeemed sinners decision, its all the work of God through Christ and the Spirit

 

[Ritajanice]

The redeemed from the curse of the Law Gal 3:13 will receive the Spirit in their heart which gives them Faith to believe Gal 3:13-14

Amen!!! 100%.

We became “ Born Again “ by Gods Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit.

When Spirit gives birth to spirit!