Deconstruction Part 2: Into Apostolicity

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Ritajanice

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Yes it was mind blowing. I knew I was on holy ground.
Wow!!

I understand exactly what you are saying though.

My Living spirit birth blew my mind....I could not believe I was Born Again, the Love that I received that night into my heart/spirit from God’s Spirit overwhelmed me....I instantly fell in love with the Spirit Of God.

My very first true Love in spirit...I cried and cried for months ,still do at times...the Love between us has grown so very, very deep...there is none like Him!

I thank him daily for making my spirit Born Again.

My opinion/ testimony and belief.

To know God in one’s spirit is such an Honour and Privilege.
 
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Hepzibah

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Wow!!

I understand exactly what you are saying though.

My Living spirit birth blew my mind....I could not believe I was Born Again, the Love that I received that night into my heart/spirit from God’s Spirit overwhelmed me....I instantly fell in love with the Spirit Of God.

My very first true Love in spirit...I cried and cried for months ,still do at times...the Love between us has grown so very, very deep...there is none like Him!

I thank him daily for making my spirit Born Again.

My opinion/ testimony and belief.

To know God in one’s spirit is such an Honour and Privilege.
Any 'appearance' of God to us humans is earth shattering. It is like nothing else. However, teaching is so bad in Evangelicalism, which is where I ended up - Calvinism that is, that we make assumptions and indeed our lives have been changed. But we are not much use to God yet in that state.
 
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ChristisGod

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Yes to each one, but with a condition that they have been fully sanctified.
so there is no excuse to sin right ?

afterall greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world. :)

and shall we continue in sin that grace might about ? may it never be !
 
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Ritajanice

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Any 'appearance' of God to us humans is earth shattering. It is like nothing else
AMEN!!!..I have always called my spirit birth.

Mind blowing!!!..blew me socks off!!!

There is nothing like it in the planet.

Even my 3 childbirths came nowhere near...my spirit birth.
 

marks

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Correct you are here re building our style of life with bricks, are you saying we are not to crucify the flesh and passions? Or am I reading you wrong here brother. Then there is sanctification, seldom mentioned on this Forum and what that entails.

Metaphorical Usage:

To "walk by the Spirit" means to live in accordance with the Spirit's leading and empowerment. It involves aligning one's thoughts, actions, and attitudes with the principles and guidance of the Spirit.
Building Your Lifestyle:

Your analogy of "building your lifestyle with bricks" captures the essence well. Each decision, habit, and attitude becomes a building block that forms the structure of how you live your life.
Just as a builder carefully chooses and places each brick to construct a building, believers are called to intentionally shape their lives by the Spirit's guidance, choosing actions and attitudes that reflect God's will.
Contrast with Walking in the Flesh:

Your understanding that "walk" (στοιχῶμεν) in Galatians 5:16 involves building your lifestyle with each decision and action aligning with the Spirit's guidance is accurate. It emphasizes the intentional and transformative nature of living in communion with God through the Holy Spirit, shaping a life that reflects His character and purposes.


The contrast in Galatians 5:16-17 highlights that walking in the Spirit leads to life and freedom, whereas walking in the flesh (living according to sinful desires) leads to bondage and destruction.
Practical Application:

Practically, "walking by the Spirit" involves cultivating a relationship with God through prayer, study of Scripture, and obedience to His prompting. It means allowing the Holy Spirit to influence every aspect of your life, guiding your decisions, words, and actions.
I missed this post yesterday, thank you for replying! I value your input, and correction when it comes, very much!!

I cannot understand those who decry looking at the Greek words!

Much love!
 
J

Johann

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1:7 if we say we have no sin (as in Gnosticism, my insert) we deceive ourselves 1:8 but if we confess our sin, He will cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Here John shows where the deceivers depart from the truth. Their teaching was that they had no need of this cleansing, as they did not consider immoral actions as sin due to matter being evil which was escaped through having ‘special’ knowledge and not in keeping God’s law. They maintained that a child of God could still sin and continue to have fellowship with God, a concept which was known as ‘spirit salvation’.
1 John 2:1
τεκνία μου, ταῦτα γράφω ὑμῖν ἵνα μὴ ἁμάρτητε. καὶ ἐάν τις ἁμάρτῃ, παράκλητον ἔχομεν πρὸς τὸν πατέρα, Ἰησοῦν Χριστὸν δίκαιον.

τεκνία (teknia): little children (neuter plural vocative noun)
μου (mou): my (first person singular genitive pronoun)
ταῦτα (tauta): these things (neuter plural accusative demonstrative pronoun)
γράφω (graphō): I write (first person singular indicative present active)
ὑμῖν (hymin): to you (second person plural dative pronoun)
ἵνα (hina): that, so that (conjunction introducing purpose)
μὴ (mē): not (negative particle)
ἁμάρτητε (hamartēte): you may sin (second person plural subjunctive aorist active)
καὶ (kai): and (conjunction)
ἐάν (ean): if, whenever (conditional particle)
τις (tis): anyone (indefinite pronoun)
ἁμάρτῃ (hamartē): sins (third person singular subjunctive aorist active)
παράκλητον (paraklēton): Advocate, Helper (masculine singular accusative noun)
ἔχομεν (echomen): we have (first person plural indicative present active)
πρὸς (pros): to, towards (preposition)
τὸν (ton): the (masculine singular accusative definite article)
πατέρα (patera): Father (masculine singular accusative noun)
Ἰησοῦν (Iēsoun): Jesus (masculine singular accusative proper noun)
Χριστὸν (Christon): Christ (masculine singular accusative proper noun)
δίκαιον (dikaion): righteous (masculine singular accusative adjective)
Translation:

"My little children, I write these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."

Morphology and Meaning Breakdown:
Address to Believers: John addresses his audience affectionately as "little children" (τεκνία μου), emphasizing his pastoral care and fatherly concern for them.

Purpose of Writing: John states that he writes (γράφω) to them so that they may not sin (ἵνα μὴ ἁμάρτητε), indicating his desire for their holiness and obedience to God.

Advocate with the Father: He reassures them that if anyone does sin (ἐάν τις ἁμάρτῃ), believers have an Advocate (παράκλητον) with the Father, who is Jesus Christ the righteous (Ἰησοῦν Χριστὸν δίκαιον). This highlights Jesus' role as the mediator and intercessor for believers before God.

That ye may not sin (hina mē hamartēte). Purpose (negative) clause with hina mē and the second aorist (ingressive, commit sin) active subjunctive of hamartanō, to sin. John has no patience with professional perfectionists (1Jn_1:8-10), but he has still less with loose-livers like some of the Gnostics who went to all sorts of excesses without shame.

If any man sin (ean tis hamartēi). Third-class condition with ean and second aorist (ingressive) active subjunctive again, “if one commit sin.”
We have (echomen). Present active indicative of echō in the apodosis, a present reality like echomen in 2Co_5:1.
An advocate (paraklēton). See note on Joh_14:16, and Joh_14:26; and note on Joh_15:26; and Joh_16:7 for this word, nowhere else in the N.T. The Holy Spirit is God’s Advocate on earth with men, while Christ is man’s Advocate with the Father (the idea, but not the word, in Rom_8:31-39; Heb_7:25). As dikaios (righteous) Jesus is qualified to plead our case and to enter the Father’s presence (Heb_2:18).
RWP


--that ye sin not; not that he thought they could be entirely without it, either without the being of it, or the commission of it, in thought, word, or deed, for this would be to suppose that which is contrary to his own words, in 1Jn_1:8; but he suggests that the end of his writing on these subjects was, that they might not live in sin, and indulge themselves in a vicious course of living, give up themselves to it, and walk in it, and work it with all greediness: and nothing could be more suitably adapted to such an end than the consideration of the holiness of God, who calls by his grace; and of the necessity of light and grace and holiness in men to communion with him; and of the pardoning grace of God and cleansing blood of Christ, which, when savingly applied, sets men against sin, and makes them zealous of good works; and of the indwelling of sin in the saints, which puts them upon their guard against it:
and if any man sin; as every man does, even everyone that is in the light, and walks in it, and has fellowship with God; everyone that believes in Christ, and is justified through his righteousness, and pardoned by his blood; everyone of the little children; for the apostle is not speaking of mankind in general who sin, for Christ is not an advocate for all that sin, but of these in particular; hence the Arabic version renders it, "if any of you sin"; and this, with the following, he says not to encourage in sin, but to comfort under a sense of it:
Gill.



Contextual Insights:
Pastoral Concern: John's concern is evident throughout the letter, as he addresses various aspects of Christian life and faith, including fellowship with God, obedience, love for one another, and assurance of salvation.

Sin and Forgiveness: While encouraging believers to strive for holiness and obedience, John acknowledges the reality of human frailty and the possibility of sin. However, he provides reassurance that through Jesus Christ, believers have access to forgiveness and restoration.

Christological Emphasis: John emphasizes the centrality of Jesus Christ as the righteous Advocate who intercedes on behalf of believers, highlighting His essential role in their relationship with God.

Conclusion:
1 John 2:1 encapsulates John's pastoral care and theological depth, urging believers towards holiness while assuring them of God's provision for forgiveness through Jesus Christ. It underscores the ongoing relationship between sin, repentance, and the believer's reliance on Jesus as their righteous Advocate before God.


Johann.
 
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Hepzibah

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I do not argue with your long post on our Advocate. Indeed IF we sin He will be our Advocate to restore us. This is what happened with Peter and Paul when they fell from their ES state.

I have already said we share in the energies of God to be as Him in holiness with a pure heart that does not sin. We never share in His essence. We never have His qualities as creator. We are returned to the state of Adam before he fell and that is the purpose of the resurrection.
 
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Johann

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I do not argue with your long post on our Advocate. Indeed IF we sin He will be our Advocate to restore us. This is what happened with Peter and Paul when they fell from their ES state.

I have already said we share in the energies of God to be as Him in holiness with a pure heart that does not sin. We never share in His essence. We never have His qualities as creator. We are returned to the state of Adam before he fell and that is the purpose of the resurrection.


I do not argue with your long post on our Advocate. Indeed IF we sin He will be our Advocate to restore us. This is what happened with Peter and Paul when they fell from their ES state.

I have already said we share in the energies of God to be as Him in holiness with a pure heart that does not sin. We never share in His essence. We never have His qualities as creator. We are returned to the state of Adam before he fell and that is the purpose of the resurrection.
The apostle adds in verse 6, “Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.”

Although Reformed Theology and Dispensationalism have been ardent defenders of the “dual natures” within the believer, there are a growing number in both of these camps that teach the old man is eradicated upon our conversion to Christ. Therefore, they believe the child of God only possesses the new man, which is created in righteousness and true holiness. This position has come to be known as one-naturism. The following statement of John MacArthur, the voice of the Grace to Youradio ministry, is representative of those who hold this viewpoint: “I believe it is a serious misunderstanding to think of the believer as having both an old and new nature. Believers do not have dual personalities…there is no such thing as an old nature in the believer.” (John MacArthur, Freedom from Sin—Romans 6-7, Moody Press, Chicago, Illinois, Pages 31,32.)

On this premise, the Holiness Movement teaches sinless perfection, but advocates of one-naturism concede that the believer can and still does sin, although in a diminishing capacity as he yields to the Spirit. Even though the old man is eradicated, they claim the remnants of original sin are still present in the believer. We might liken it to a man who fires a shotgun at a rotten apple—all that’s left are pieces embedded in the wall. They call this embedded behavior, the flesh.

While it is not our desire to enter into a dialogue over one-naturism, we do want our readers to understand that this position stands in opposition to one of the fundamentals of the faith. Our declaration of faith in the Grace Movement states: “By reason of Christ’s victory over sin and His indwelling Spirit, all of the saved may and should experience deliverance from the power of sin by obedience to Romans 6:11; but we deny that man’s nature of sin is ever eradicated during this life” (Rom. 6:6-14; Gal. 5:16-25; Rom. 8:37; II Cor. 2:14; 10:2-5).







The present tense of salvation, sanctification, has the idea to be set apart unto God. The family of words associated with this Greek word is: saints, holy, holiness, sanctify, sanctuary, etc. Here we must be careful to distinguish between positional and practical sanctification. These are two distinct lines of teaching in Paul’s epistles.

“But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption” (I Cor. 1:30).

Notice it is “in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us…sanctification.” This is a once-for-all act of God that takes place at the moment of our conversion. Therefore, we are the saints of God, holy, perfect, and complete in Christ (Eph. 1:4; I Thes. 5:23; Col. 2:10). Nothing in this life or the next can ever change our standing before God. The moment death sweeps us into the eternal presence of God we will appear before Him perfect because we are in Christ.

The present state of things, however, is a much different story. Our behavior as the saints of God is not always becoming of Christ. We are imperfect and incomplete on this side of glory. This is why the apostle admonishes the Corinthians and those at Thessalonica accordingly:

“For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honor” (I Thes. 4:3,4).

In the Old Testament, God never made a provision for presumptuous sins in the daily sacrificial system. There was only a provision made for sins of ignorance (Num. 15:27-31). The reason for this was clear: as far as God was concerned His chosen people, a holy nation, would never willingly sin against Him. But the fact of the matter is, they sinned again and again presumptuously against the Holy One of Israel, which thankfully was covered by the annual Day of Atonement.

We might say it this way today: surely a saint of God, who is set apart unto Him, would never willingly sin against the Lord. Sadly, he can and often does as the above passage demonstrates. You see, the believer is to appropriate by faith what he already possesses in Christ that he might not sin against God. This is how we have power over sin in our lives.

THE INNER CONFLICT
The mechanics of our identification with Christ are more fully developed for us in Romans Chapter 6:

“Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin” (Rom. 6:6).

The “old man” is that which we have inherited from Adam at conception. Although some object to the usage of “old nature,” since it is not specifically used in Paul’s revelation, these two designations are one in the same. For example, a dog has a nature, which is the inherent character of the animal. The two are inseparable. Thus, we often hear it said that it’s the nature of a dog to bark. In similar fashion, the old nature is corrupt according to deceitful lust (Eph. 4:22). It naturally rebels against God and the things of God. The old nature is like the dog that returns to its vomit, it cannot be altered, and any attempt to reform it will always be futile.

Other names for the old nature are: the natural man, the (old) heart, the carnal mind, and the flesh. These designations merely describe additional characteristics of the old man, with which we are all too familiar. But Paul says, “Our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed.” We are dead to sin. Do you believe this wonderful truth? We do—lock, stock, and barrel, as they say!

In the eyes of God, our old man was crucified with Christ; it’s dead and buried forevermore, positionally. Practically speaking, however, he’s alive and well within our members. This is why the apostle instructs us that since Christ died unto sin once, “Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin” (Rom. 6:11). Beloved, we would not have to reckon the old man dead if he has been eradicated, as some teach. We must count him dead because he is still present within us.

The conflict between the two natures may be compared to a ship, on which a new Captain has been put on board by the owners. The old Captain has so long held command, and his enmity to the owners is so great, that he has practically treated the vessel as his own; and kept the crew in perfect bondage. The crew has submitted to it, never having known any other authority, or understood what real liberty of service was. From time to time they have heard of it; they have passed other vessels which they saw at once were very different from their own.

But, now that the new Captain is in authority they begin to find out what the difference is. The new Captain henceforth always has control of the helm and the charge of the ship. The ship is the same, the crew is the same. Even the old Captain remains on board. The book of instructions which the new Captain has brought on board tells that the old Captain has been judged and condemned: but the sentence cannot be executed except by the proper judicial authorities, when they reach port.

They cannot put him ashore, or throw him overboard. But, he no longer “holds the helm or guides the ship.” He tries from time to time to get hold of the wheel, but in vain. He succeeds sometimes in putting forth his old influence by creating disaffection in some of the members of the crew; for he knows them and their weaknesses well from his former complete control of them. He occasionally bribes or deceives some of them into acts of insubordination which they afterwards deeply regret. But the old Captain cannot get at the “ship’s papers.” They are now put quite out of his reach, where he cannot touch them. He cannot succeed in altering the ship’s course, or change the port for which she is now bound. He does not read the book of instructions; and if he looks at it, he does not understand it (I Cor. 2:14).

The ship’s crew was once his executive, and carried out only his will; but there is now no obligation for any of them to obey his orders, or to recognize his authority. They are released from it; and henceforth they are under the orders of the new Commander. They are to “reckon” the old Captain as already condemned; and the sentence as only waiting to be carried out. As to his power over them, they are to reckon themselves “as good as dead” so far as he is concerned. (The Two Natures in the Child of God, E.W. Bullinger, D.D., published by Bible Doctrines to Live By, Grand Rapids, Michigan, Pages 26,27.)

 

Lizbeth

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@Lizbeth dear sister-the reason why there is a miscommunication and misunderstanding between us is that I have to read through this, not really comprehendo what you are trying to convey or communicate to me, we are talking past each other and not WITH each other.
Hence the reason why I communicate with Scriptures and use "Biblianeze" terminologies and I have already posted two other posts on the Baptism and filling of the Ruach HaKodesh.

Have you open the link I have given you? Virus free and choc full of Scriptures with sound exegesis?
My apologies for coming across as harsh, angry with you-I am not.
Shalom
Johann.
No problem Johann....God bless.

I'm sorry for rambling.....trying to percolate some things about the Holy Spirit and Pentecost. Feel free to ignore it. Yes I think we are talking past each other sometimes, and I get overwhelmed with information overload and can't deal with much at a time. Think I'm having one of my "useless" days today anyhow.

But nobody can tell me that God doesn't speak or work miracles today, any more than they can tell me Jesus/God aren't real.........I know it's true for the same reasons I know Jesus/God are real.....and it's all scriptural. Except for those who need to take pages and pages and pages and more pages to try and reason scripture away. But aren't we supposed to be like little children?
 
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Johann

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Except for those who need to take pages and pages and pages and more pages to try and reason scripture away. But aren't we supposed to be like little children?
Maybe another miscommunication but are you saying I am taking pages and pages and pages to reason the "still, small voice" away?

Tell me, do you think I'm prideful, full of self?
But nobody can tell me that God doesn't speak or work miracles today, any more than they can tell me Jesus/God aren't real.........I know it's true for the same reasons I know Jesus/God are real.
As for this, I don't put Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit in a box but should you find a healer or a worker of miracles please give him Justin Peters number, he is wheelchair bound, and make him walk and then have him go to the nearest hospital-lots of sick folk there.
If he can't he is a pseudo prophet or apostle-and the just shall live by faith, not signs and wonders!

And I do believe we all should get a firm handle on our emotions.
Shalom to you and family.
Johann.
 

marks

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Correct you are here re building our style of life with bricks, are you saying we are not to crucify the flesh and passions? Or am I reading you wrong here brother. Then there is sanctification, seldom mentioned on this Forum and what that entails.
I'm still mulling over this stoichomen . . .

1 Peter 1:13-16 KJV
13) Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14) As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15) But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16) Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Like the opposite of "fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts".

Colossians 2:7-8 KJV
7) Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Jude 1:20 KJV
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Still sifting through my thoughts here . . .

Much love!
 

marks

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Now I am going to ask you again to open the link-no need to feel led to do so-and read for yourself, and then come back and we can discuss.

Thanks
Johann
I'll need to read this again, but it's a very interesting read!

Much love!
 
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Johann

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I'm still mulling over this stoichomen . . .

1 Peter 1:13-16 KJV
13) Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14) As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15) But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16) Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Like the opposite of "fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts".

Colossians 2:7-8 KJV
7) Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Jude 1:20 KJV
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Still sifting through my thoughts here . . .

Much love!
I like where this is going, I really do-what is your go to secondary source? e Sword? My computer is getting old like I am getting old and switch off and on by itself.
 
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marks

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I like where this is going, I really do-what is your go to secondary source? e Sword? My computer is getting old like I am getting old and switch off and on by itself.
I use E-Sword and Scripture4all.org.

Much love!
 
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