The Modern Gospel

[Johann]

He posts other people’s work....what good is intellectual knowledge without the Spirit?

I quote you scriptures and how is it you don't understand ONE word? These are MY notes and stored in Word-Scripture without commentary, and still you don't understand ONE word?
Why is it you boast you are birthed but can't explain your 2Aorist experience FROM Scriptures?

You have to run this one by me again.

 

[Hepzibah]

I am talking about blatant contradictions in the systemic theology of an individual person. I know that there was error in the early church. The role of bishops is not scriptural.

You are wrong about Pelagius by the way. I have been looking for the quote that proves it but have been busy today and can't find the article I wrote on the subject as I have studied Pelagius intently as he taught entire sanctification as an Orthodox monk - by grace alone.

 

[ChristisGod]

Correction, we can preach a sermon on righteousness, holiness and sanctification, not your version of the gospel since your "good news" is a form of Gnosticism-replete with divine experiences and visitations which reminds me that all cults started this way.
What I'm going to do is take all your podcasts and submit it to two or three brothers in Christ online to review this=Corey and Wise Disciple and see how it goes.
Should you wish, you can have a face to face discussion with these brothers and I will give you the time and date, sounds good?

You are espousing Augustinianism which is Gnosticism. You once again are projecting

 

[Hepzibah]

The point of argument was that Pelagius denied the 'T' and said that a man can do good.

 

[ChristisGod]

How is he a show off?

He posts other people’s work....what good is intellectual knowledge without the Spirit?

Yes secondary sources , the teachings of man over the inspired word of God.

 

[ChristisGod]

The point of argument was that Pelagius denied the 'T' and said that a man can do good.

Yes you know your church history. No one taught it until Augustine came on the scene

 

[Lizbeth]

No wonder you are having a hard job understanding Epi posts..he has a lot of spiritual knowledge

A lot of error too in important areas. Be ye careful sister.

 

[Ritajanice]

I quote you scriptures and how is it you don't understand ONE word? These are MY notes and stored in Word-Scripture without commentary, and still you don't understand ONE word?
Why is it you boast you are birthed but can't explain your 2Aorist experience FROM Scriptures?

You have to run this one by me again.

Not all scripture speaks to a Born Again, we wait on the Spirit to bring Gods written word to understanding in our spirit.

Just like the scripture I quoted to you, you didn’t understand it because it can only be understood by heart / spirit revelation.

Johann I have quoted my experience as becoming Born Again by scripture....you said you didn’t understand a word, then asked me to explain it using hermautics whatever that is..

Being Born Of The Spirit is a Living Spirit Birth and no one cannot choose to become Born Of God’s seed impossible..only Gods Living witness can perform that Living spiritual act...man cannot draw themselves to Jesus only the Father can do that.by His Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit...he does the Fathers will on earth.

As I say you need to ask God to help you focus on your heart/ spirit...

 

[Ritajanice]

A lot of error too in important areas. Be ye careful sister.

I think we are all in error at times Sis..

 

[Hepzibah]

Must buy this:

The Myth of Pelagianism. By Ali Bonner

The suspicion that Pelagianism owes more to Augustine than its supposed originator is not new. In his own lifetime Pelagius was supported by influential pa

academic.oup.com

 

[Johann]

You are wrong about Pelagius by the way. I have been looking for the quote that proves it but have been busy today and can't find the article I wrote on the subject as I have studied Pelagius intently as he taught entire sanctification as an Orthodox monk - by grace alone.

Not really, and to be honest, not really interested in Pelagius and what he wrote, but what YOU believe.

The phrase "I am of Apollos" or "I am of Paul" refers to divisions within the Corinthian church where believers aligned themselves with different leaders or teachers rather than focusing on unity in Christ. This issue is addressed in the New Testament, particularly in the First Epistle to the Corinthians. Here are some relevant passages:

1 Corinthians 1:11-13 (ESV):

"For it has been reported to me by Ce's people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. What I mean is that each one of you says, 'I follow Paul,' or 'I follow Apollos,' or 'I follow Cephas,' or 'I follow Christ.' Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?"

Context: In these verses, Paul addresses the divisions among the Corinthians, where some claimed allegiance to different leaders such as Paul, Apollos, Peter (Cephas), or even directly to Christ. Paul rebukes this factionalism, emphasizing that all believers should be united in Christ, not divided by human allegiances.
1 Corinthians 3:4-6 (ESV):

"For when one says, 'I follow Paul,' and another, 'I follow Apollos,' are you not being merely human? What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each. I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth."
Context: Paul continues to address the Corinthians' factionalism, explaining that both he and Apollos are servants of God who played different roles in their spiritual growth. The emphasis is on God as the source of their faith and growth, not on human leaders.
These passages highlight Paul's concern over the divisions within the Corinthian church based on allegiances to different leaders. He emphasizes the unity of believers in Christ and the folly of dividing over human personalities or preferences. The context underscores the importance of focusing on the gospel message and the work of God rather than on human leaders or teachers.

Pelagius' Teachings:

Pelagius argued that humans possess free will and the ability to choose good or evil without necessarily being influenced by original sin. He taught that individuals could achieve righteousness and salvation through their own moral efforts, aided by God's grace as an external aid and example but not as an irresistible force.
Views on Sanctification:

Pelagius did emphasize the pursuit of moral perfection and sanctification, often associated with his rigorous asceticism as an Orthodox monk. He believed in striving towards moral excellence and living a holy life through personal effort and discipline, albeit with the aid of God's grace.
Grace in Pelagius' Theology:

While Pelagius acknowledged the role of God's grace in providing moral guidance and aiding human effort, his understanding of grace differed significantly from later theological developments. He viewed grace more as divine assistance rather than the initiating and transforming power that Augustine and later Reformers emphasized.
Regarding a specific quote from Pelagius that aligns with the concept of "entire sanctification by grace alone," it's important to note that Pelagius' theological writings have not survived in their entirety. Much of what we know about his teachings comes from the writings of his opponents, particularly Augustine, who critiqued Pelagius' views on grace and free will.

Though I read the early fathers and puritans I am a follower of Christ Jesus-and so should you.
Shalom
J.

 

[Lizbeth]

Your faith is dead faith

Whoa Nellie.

Johan, let me know when your spirit has been Born Again.

Again.

 

[Lizbeth]

I think we are all in error at times Sis..

I hope not in foundational things. aka the Gospel.

 

[Ritajanice]

Whoa Nellie.

What do you mean , Whoa Nellie,human faith is dead, where is the power in human faith?

My human faith was/ is dead....God gifts us faith a manifestation of the Spirit...
How can you believe in God in your own human faith?

Don’t you think as a non believer I tried to believe in God with my human faith I remember it to this day...dead faith...we need the resurrection life in our spirit when we become Born Again by Gods Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit...mind Blowing...that is faith that is Alive and Active in the Spirit.

Again.

Born Again in our spirit?

No disrespect Sis, but when you say Whoa Nellie, have you reread some of your posts back from speaking to Epi?

Talk about....WOW!!...pot kettle ,black and all that Sis...don’t be a hypocrite now..

 

[Ritajanice]

I hope not in foundational things. aka the Gospel.

Jesus is my foundation not the gospel, I stand on God’s word, when I became Born Again.

The gospel is the good news it doesn’t make one’s spirit Born Again.

The gospel didn’t bring my spirit Alive in Christ, Gods Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit did that.already posted scripture on that also how Jesus explains to Nicodemus how we are Born Of The Spirit.

 

[ChristisGod]

I think we are all in error at times Sis..

Not one has all truth and we all believe some error.

 

[Lizbeth]

I say again-I don't hold to TULIP-surprised? Besides, there were inconsistencies even from the church fathers.

The early Church Fathers, while foundational in shaping Christian theology and doctrine, were not without inconsistencies or disagreements on various theological and practical issues. Here are some notable inconsistencies among them:

Ecclesiology (Church Structure):

Cyprian of Carthage (d. 258) emphasized the unity of the Church under the authority of bishops, advocating for a hierarchical structure.
Ignatius of Antioch (d. c. 108) also supported hierarchical authority but emphasized the role of the bishop in unity with the presbyters (elders) and deacons.
Tertullian (d. c. 220), in contrast, questioned the authority of bishops and emphasized the spiritual priesthood of all believers.
Soteriology (Doctrine of Salvation):

Origen (d. c. 253) taught the eventual restoration of all beings to God (universal salvation), influenced by his allegorical interpretation of Scripture.
Augustine of Hippo (d. 430), on the other hand, developed a doctrine of predestination and emphasized the absolute sovereignty of God in salvation, which became foundational in Western Christianity.
Theology of Grace:

Pelagius (d. c. 420) emphasized human free will and argued against the concept of original sin, suggesting that humans can achieve salvation through moral effort alone.
Augustine, in response, taught that original sin has corrupted human nature to the extent that humans are unable to choose God without divine grace. This led to the development of the doctrine of "grace alone" (sola gratia) in Western Christianity.
Christology (Doctrine of Christ):

Arius (d. c. 336) taught that Jesus Christ, while divine, was a created being and not co-eternal with God the Father.
Athanasius (d. 373) vigorously opposed Arianism and argued for the full deity and co-eternality of Christ with the Father, contributing significantly to the formulation of the Nicene Creed.
Scriptural Interpretation:

Origen employed allegorical interpretation of Scripture to find deeper spiritual meanings, which sometimes led to theological speculations.
Irenaeus (d. c. 202), in contrast, emphasized a more literal interpretation of Scripture and argued for the importance of apostolic tradition in interpreting the Bible.
These inconsistencies and disagreements among the early Church Fathers reflect the diversity of thought and theological development within early Christianity. They also highlight the ongoing process of refining and articulating Christian doctrine as the Church encountered new challenges and controversies throughout its early history.

I'm probably just annoying people with my hit and run comments today, but I don't believe we should be overly concerned with what "church father's" believed.......apart from the apostles of course. Paul said after he departed wolves would come in not sparing the flock.......that gives me pause all by itself as to how church leadership went after the time of the apostles.....so how much weight should we give them? Better just to get things straight from the horse's mouth.....always we should go back to the plumbline. Scott on the other thread had a very good point about not following "the church".....that is what the RCC does, relying on what theologians have written instead of the word of God.....they rely far too much on historical theological precedent from what I understand.....traditions of men. Talmudic Judaism is like that as well....they seem to place the Talmud over the scriptures and rely on the Talmud to help them understand scripture....recipe for disaster.

 

[Johann]

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks-error.

Matthew 7:24-25 (ESV):

"Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock."

Context: Jesus teaches the parable of the wise and foolish builders, illustrating that those who build their lives on His words have a firm foundation that withstands trials and challenges.
1 Corinthians 3:11 (ESV):

"For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."
Context: Paul emphasizes that Jesus Christ is the only true foundation upon which the Church and individual believers can build their faith and lives.
Ephesians 2:19-20 (ESV):

"So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone."
Context: Paul describes how believers are part of God's household, with Jesus Christ as the cornerstone—the primary foundation—upon which the Church is built.
1 Peter 2:4-6 (ESV):

"As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture: 'Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.'"
Context: Peter uses the imagery of Jesus as the living stone and cornerstone upon which believers are built into a spiritual house and priesthood, emphasizing the foundational role of Christ in our spiritual lives.
Colossians 1:17-18 (ESV):

"And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent."
Context: Paul declares the preeminence of Christ, describing Him as the head of the Church and the foundation upon which all things hold together.
These Scriptures affirm that Jesus Christ is not only our Savior and Lord but also the foundational cornerstone upon which our faith, life, and the Church are built. He is the source of our spiritual strength, stability, and unity as believers.

 

[ChristisGod]

I'm probably just annoying people with my hit and run comments today, but I don't believe we should be overly concerned with what "church father's" believed.......apart from the apostles of course. Paul said after he departed wolves would come in not sparing the flock.......that gives me pause all by itself as to how church leadership went after the time of the apostles.....so how much weight should we give them? Better just to get things straight from the horse's mouth.....always we should go back to the plumbline. Scott on the other thread had a very good point about not following "the church".....that is what the RCC does, relying on what theologians have written instead of the word of God.....they rely far too much on historical theological precedent from what I understand.....traditions of men. Talmudic Judaism is like that as well....they seem to place the Talmud over the scriptures and rely on the Talmud to help them understand scripture....recipe for disaster.

Ditto

Scripture is the inspired word of God in the NT through the Apostles not the extra biblical uninspired writings of man.

 

[Ritajanice]

Matthew 7:24-25 (ESV):

"Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock."

Context: Jesus teaches the parable of the wise and foolish builders, illustrating that those who build their lives on His words have a firm foundation that withstands trials and challenges.
1 Corinthians 3:11 (ESV):

"For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."
Context: Paul emphasizes that Jesus Christ is the only true foundation upon which the Church and individual believers can build their faith and lives.
Ephesians 2:19-20 (ESV):

"So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone."
Context: Paul describes how believers are part of God's household, with Jesus Christ as the cornerstone—the primary foundation—upon which the Church is built.
1 Peter 2:4-6 (ESV):

"As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture: 'Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.'"
Context: Peter uses the imagery of Jesus as the living stone and cornerstone upon which believers are built into a spiritual house and priesthood, emphasizing the foundational role of Christ in our spiritual lives.
Colossians 1:17-18 (ESV):

"And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent."
Context: Paul declares the preeminence of Christ, describing Him as the head of the Church and the foundation upon which all things hold together.
These Scriptures affirm that Jesus Christ is not only our Savior and Lord but also the foundational cornerstone upon which our faith, life, and the Church are built. He is the source of our spiritual strength, stability, and unity as believers.

You posted a quote of words I never said?

Ritajanice never said this.that you quoted me saying @Johann ?

Ritajanice said:
Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks-error.