THE GOSPEL

[Behold]

Some Jews believed in Jesus - they believed the gospel which they heard him preach and repented -

This is true........many believed in Jesus, some became a disciple.

However, no one was born again, while Jesus was on earth, because the HOLY SPIRIT was not given until Jesus was back in Heaven.

Its the Holy Spirit who gives the "new Birth".

Exception?

Yes.

Read Acts 20:22 that happened before Pentecost, when all the Apostle who were alive, received the Holy Spirit, and not of them were water baptized at that time.

Then the same gospel was delivered to the gentiles. Many of them believed and repented.

Paul's Gospel, was not available until Paul became a Christian, and that was after Jesus was back in Heaven.

The gospel of the kingdom, which is the gospel of God, is the saving message.

The Gospel of the Grace of God, is "for the time of the Gentiles'.

The Gospel of the Kingdom, will be for the "Trib and Grt Trib"

The parable of the sower is connected by Jesus with the gospel he preached. The gospel of the kingdom is the word, the word of God, the word of the kingdom.

Paul's Gospel is to create the CHURCH... the body of Christ

So, when Jesus was on Earth, there was no Cross, so there was no Body of Christ yet.. no Church..........except for John 20:22

It is Paul’s gospel because it is the Messiah’s gospel.

Paul's Gospel is that Jesus died on the Cross.

Jesus didn't preach this same Gospel, because Jesus didnt die on the Cross, until just over a month before He went back to heaven, and he didnt preach to Jews, during that Time.

So, during the 3.4 years he was on Earth, He had not been Crucified Yet, and that was when he was dealing with the JEWS.

= Jesus had no Cross to offer them, yet.

 

[Behold]

Water baptism is required in order to be in the Messiah’s army.

Water baptism gets you wet.
Nothing else.

Its the Blood of Jesus, that God offers as Jesus on the CROSS..... that is what washes away your sin.

Never teach that water does this, as thats a lie., its a "cult of mary" LIE.

 

[Matthias]

What I’ve learned from the OP is that some believe there are two gospels, one for Jews and one for non-Jews.

I learned that from the OP (and from others - before and after - who believe as he does), not from the Messiah and the apostles.

I’m convinced that Jesus and the apostles all taught the same gospel of God.

 

[Matthias]

Water baptism gets you wet.
Nothing else.

I don’t agree with that.

If what you said is true then it is optional, unnecessary, do it or don’t do it because it doesn’t matter.

Water baptism is a public profession of faith, as well as an act of obedience to the Messiah.

Its the Blood of Jesus, that God offers as Jesus on the CROSS..... that is what washes away your sin.

Never teach that water does this, as thats a lie., its a "cult of mary" LIE.

Those who haven’t been baptized in water are rebelling against the Messiah.

 

[Behold]

What I’ve learned from the OP is that some believe there are two gospels, one for Jews and one for non-Jews.

Well.......its like this..

The Body of Christ, that started with the Cross, is mostly gentiles.

So, in this "time of the Gentiles"... a JEW can be saved........but, the "time of the Gentiles" that is the "Church age".. is specifically given for the GENTILES.

And Paul's Gospel, is for this "time"., and its the "Gospels of the Grace of God"

NEXT........we have the Tribulation, and that is when God resumes dealing with the JEW, as He did in the OT........specifically.
At that time, there is the "Gospel of the Kingdom".
Its different then Paul's Gospel.

 

[Behold]

If what you said is true then it is optional, unnecessary, do it or don’t do it because it doesn’t matter.

I never said that water baptism is optional.........what i taught is that water is not required for Salvation.

See, a "water cult" teaches that .>"without water, you can't be saved"..

So, that is a LIE>.

Millions of people are saved every year, and there is no water baptism at that time.

Water baptism is a public profession of faith, as well as an act of obedience to the Messiah.

That is the main reason to be water baptized..
Its a public confession.....that you have already given God your faith in Christ.. and are born again.

Those who haven’t been baptized in water are rebelling against the Messiah.

Jesus told you to give to the poor, so, if you dont, are you rebelling?

So, water baptism, is not required for Salvation..but everyone should be water baptized... after they are born again..........if possible.
Its not always possible to be water baptized after you are born again.

 

[Matthias]

Well.......its like this..

The Body of Christ, that started with the Cross, is mostly gentiles.

It wasn’t in the beginning. The primitive Christians were predominantly Jewish monotheists, not converts from paganism.

So, in this "time of the Gentiles"... a JEW can be saved........but, the "time of the Gentiles" that is the "Church age".. is specifically given for the GENTILES.

Salvation is open to Jews and Gentiles. The same gospel that saves one is the same gospel that saves all.

And Paul's Gospel, is for this "time"., and its the "Gospels of the Grace of God"

Pitting Paul against Jesus and the other apostles isn’t persuasive to me.

NEXT........we have the Tribulation, and that is when God resumes dealing with the JEW, as He did in the OT........specifically.

The great tribulation hasn’t started yet. God is already dealing with the Jews.

At that time, there is the "Gospel of the Kingdom".
Its different then Paul's Gospel.

That’s a clear stating of your position.

***

The gospel of the kingdom is the gospel of God. Jesus preached it. It isn’t different from Paul’s gospel. All of the apostles including Paul, preached the same gospel and there is no other saving gospel.

That’s a clear stating of my position.

 

[Matthias]

I never said that water baptism is optional.........what i taught is that water is not required for Salvation.

See, a "water cult" teaches that .>"without water, you can't be saved"..

So, that is a LIE>.

“Water baptism gets you wet.
Nothing else.”

Those are your words (post #42), not mine. I rebuked for it. “Nothing else” is atrocious.

Millions of people are saved every year, and there is no water baptism at that time.

Philip demonstrated when water baptism is to occur.

That is the main reason to be water baptized..
Its a public confession.....that you have already given God your faith in Christ.. and are born again.

It is also the obedience of the faith.

Jesus told you to give to the poor, so, if you dont, are you rebelling?

Yes.

So, water baptism, is not required for Salvation..but everyone should be water baptized... after they are born again..........if possible.
Its not always possible to be water baptized after you are born again.

The Didache addressed those rare circumstances.

 

[Behold]

It wasn’t in the beginning. The primitive Christians were predominantly Jewish monotheists, not converts from paganism.

The Cross of Christ birthed the NT church....= ."the body of Christ".

Salvation is open to Jews and Gentiles.

As i said...

And in the "time of the Gentiles".. and you are in it right now.........we have : "Paul's Gospel"

Any other is this..

Galatians 1:8

Read Paul's verse.....

Pitting Paul against Jesus and the other apostles isn’t persuasive to me.

Im not trying to persuade you.

im only showing you that Paul said that the Gospel He preached is based on Jesus being Crucified.

Whereas , Jesus could not have preached this to the JEWS, as He was not Crucified yet, and after He was, He didnt go to the Jewish people to preach....... tho over 500 people saw the Risen Lord Jesus before He ascended back into GLORY.

God is already dealing with the Jews.

God is not dealing with them as He was in the OT.

And Jesus came to the "House of ISREAL"......not to the Gentiles.

After Jesus was back in Heaven, He called PAUL to go to the "Gentiles", because God is specifically dealing with the Gentiles until the Tribulation begins.

The gospel of the kingdom is the gospel of God. Jesus preached it. It isn’t different from Paul’s gospel.

I have faith that you are going to be able to Understand at some point......That Jesus didnt Preach "Christ Crucified" to the Jews, as He was not Crucified until a short time before He went back to Heaven.
So for the rest of the 3.4 Years before He was crucified He never preach that He was Crucified for us.

Paul DID preach Christ Crucified, and he said this is = "MY Gospel"...3x

"We preach CHRIST Crucified"... and this Gospel is for everyone, as "All who will believe",....... but its given in the "TIME of the GENTILES", and not during the Tribulation (period).

 

[Behold]

“Water baptism gets you wet.
Nothing else.”

Those are your words (post #42), not mine. I rebuked for it. “Nothing else” is atrocious.

Water baptism is symbolic.

Nothing else.

It only gets you wet.....it has no spiritual power........its just WATER.

Philip demonstrated when water baptism is to occur.

Yes, after you are born again.......you are to be water baptized, if possible

 

[Matthias]

The Cross of Christ birthed the NT church....= ."the body of Christ".



As i said...

And in the "time of the Gentiles".. and you are in it right now.........we have : "Paul's Gospel"

Any other is this..

Galatians 1:8

Read Paul's verse.....



Im not trying to persuade you.

im only showing you that Paul said that the Gospel He preached is based on Jesus being Crucified.

Whereas , Jesus could not have preached this to the JEWS, as He was not Crucified yet, and after He was, He didnt go to the Jewish people to preach....... tho over 500 people saw the Risen Lord Jesus before He ascended back into GLORY.


God is not dealing with them as He was in the OT.

And Jesus came to the "House of ISREAL"......not to the Gentiles.

After Jesus was back in Heaven, He called PAUL to go to the "Gentiles", because God is specifically dealing with the Gentiles until the Tribulation begins.



I have faith that you are going to be able to Understand at some point......That Jesus didnt Preach "Christ Crucified" to the Jews, as He was not Crucified until a short time before He went back to Heaven.
So for the rest of the 3.4 Years before He was crucified He never preach that He was Crucified for us.

Paul DID preach Christ Crucified, and he said this is = "MY Gospel"...3x

"We preach CHRIST Crucified"... and this Gospel is for everyone, as "All who will believe",....... but its given in the "TIME of the GENTILES", and not during the Tribulation (period).

The gospel all of the apostles preached is based on Jesus being crucified.

 

[Behold]

The gospel all of the apostles preached is based on Jesus being crucified.

Did you read what Peter told the Jews in Acts 2?

He said....>>"you've killed your Messiah".......and they said..>>" Sir.....What must we do".

Peter said.>>"repent and be water baptized"...

So, that is not the Gospel.

Now...
If you have a bible..

Read Galatians 1:8

It says that any other Gospel, other then Paul's is..........

 

[Matthias]

“But how can people call on him if they have not believed in him? How can they believe in him if they have not heard his message? How can they hear if no one tells them the Good News? How can people tell the Good News if no one sends them? As Scripture says, ‘How beautiful are the feet of the messengers who announce the Good News.”

(Romans 10:14-15, NOG)

“His message” is what Jesus preached, and what Jesus preached is the gospel of God, the gospel of the kingdom, the gospel of grace.

In order to be saved, everyone - Jew and Gentile alike - must see, hear, understand, and repent (the SHUR of the parable of the sower) - the Messiah himself preaching his message.

 

[Matthias]

Did you read what Peter told the Jews in Acts 2?

He said....>>"you've killed your Messiah".......and they said..>>" Sir.....What must we do".

Peter said.>>"repent and be water baptized"...

So, that is not the Gospel.

Now...
If you have a bible..

Read Galatians 1:8

It says that any other Gospel, other then Paul's is..........

Have I read? If I have a Bible?

You can approach a pastor any way you please but the way that you just did is foolish.

 

[quietthinker]

Actually he did
[Mat 26:28 KJV] 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Is making a statement and preaching the same thing? I doubt it.

 

[Matthias]

Im not trying to persuade you.

Just in case there is any doubt about it, I’m trying to persuade anyone and everyone who will listen.

Our respective positions have been clearly articulated.

***

A word to my readers. We are all encouraged by Paul to search the scriptures to see if what is being said is true.

Behold, I think, would agree with me that that is what everyone should do.

Let everyone be convinced in his or her own mind.

 

[Doug]

Yes. Teaching Messiah is teaching everything connected with him, including his conception and birth, his teaching and preaching, his death, burial and resurrection, his ascension, and his future return to reign over the kingdom of God from his throne in Jerusalem.

I will agree to that but that doesnt mean their gospel was the same nor their purpose

 

[Doug]

Thanks. So we are in agreement then that they understood the death and resurrection of Jesus. There is nothing preventing them from preaching it, and they did.

Well saying they understood the death and resurrection has to be qualified
Peter viewed the resurrection as Christ being risen would establish the earthly kingdom and reign as king
Paul viewed His resurrection as being our justification unto eternal life

 

[Matthias]

I will agree to that but that doesnt mean their gospel was the same nor their purpose

Any mutual agreement we can come to is desirable outcome of our dialogue. A portion of the wall that separates has been taken down. A shorter, but still tall, wall separates us.

 

[Matthias]

Well saying they understood the death and resurrection has to be qualified
Peter viewed the resurrection as Christ being risen would establish the earthly kingdom and reign as king

Peter, like all of the apostles, including Paul, didn’t connect his resurrection with an immediate establishment of the earthly kingdom and reign as king. They all thought that a future parousia (“second coming”) of Messiah was coming, and that the Messiah wouldn’t reign on the earth with his followers until he was sitting on the throne of David in Jerusalem. They thought that would happen soon, in their lifetimes, but it didn’t. His second coming is certain but it is still sometime in the future.

Paul viewed His resurrection as being our justification unto eternal life

Yes, but to say that the other apostles didn’t know it, didn’t understand it, or - heaven forbid - didn’t believe it, is unthinkable.

All of the apostles were on the same mission and preaching the same gospel.