Where was Jesus between his death and resurrection?

[MatthewG]

How can you say your faith is not hindered? If you were revealed the dogma of hell is merely a fabrication in your own mind and has no reality whatsoever, you honestly say this does not hinder your faith? It's like you saying "hey man, I'm a chrisitan and it doesn't matter what I believe, my faith is good!" And the only authority we have is from Scripture. Maybe that is insufficient also?

F2F

Hell is over with, the bible proclaims it.

@MatthewG

Here is a list of things which you believe which seriously impact your faith.

1. You believe in a God that allows eternal torture
2. You need to believe His Holy Nature (Divine) can sin
3. You believe God has chaos in His Heavenly abode
4. You believe God's Will is not done in Heaven so how can you believe it will be done of earth?
5. Your reward is compromised because you believe angels can sin - which must mean you go from a corrupt nature to a divine nature, which also suffers temptation of evil (crazy!)
6. It also means your reward of eternal life carries the possibitity of death (double crazy!)
7. It also means there is a stack of prophecy you do not understand the blessings (promised) of the prophecies given by Christ to his servants is totally unknown to you.

And you say "Cause my faith is not hindered by what I believe"

There are no words to describe this type of folly.

F2F

Hell is over. Plain and simple.

Whether or not you have faith in that, is up to you.

 

[Johann]

Hell is over. Plain and simple.

Where is Hell over with? You have Scripture references.

 

[face2face]

Where is Hell over with? You have Scripture references.

There is no place in Scripture which describes the notions many hold onto.
F2F

 

[Johann]

There is no place in Scripture which describes the notions many hold onto.
F2F

In traditional Christian doctrine, hell is seen as an eternal state of punishment or separation from God for those who reject His offer of salvation. Jesus speaks about it in terms of "eternal fire" (Matthew 25:41) and "unquenchable fire" (Mark 9:43), with language emphasizing its everlasting nature. This is supported by passages like Revelation 20:10, where the devil, the beast, and the false prophet are cast into a lake of fire and "will be tormented day and night forever and ever." Therefore, in this view, hell is not over with but remains a future and eternal destination for the wicked.

However, there are alternative interpretations of hell in Christian thought:

Annihilationism – This view holds that the souls of the wicked are not tormented eternally but instead are destroyed or cease to exist after judgment. Proponents of this view often interpret phrases like "eternal destruction" (2 Thessalonians 1:9) to mean final annihilation rather than unending torment. In this case, if annihilationism is true, one might argue that hell "ends" when the unrepentant cease to exist after judgment.

Universalism – This view posits that ultimately, all people will be reconciled to God, and hell is either temporary or symbolic. Supporters of this view may point to verses like 1 Timothy 2:4, which states that God "desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." If hell is understood as a temporary purifying process (like purgatory in Catholic theology), then it might be considered "over with" when all souls are reconciled to God. However, this view is considered heterodox in most mainstream Christian traditions.

Preterism – Some partial preterists, who believe most biblical prophecies were fulfilled by the end of the first century (especially with the destruction of the temple in AD 70), might suggest that references to hell and judgment are specific to the first-century context and the end of the Old Covenant. However, even preterists generally do not claim that hell itself is "over with" for individuals after death.

Ultimately, most traditional Christian interpretations see hell as part of the final judgment and not something that has already concluded. Whether hell is eternal or temporary depends on one's theological framework, but in the majority view, hell remains a future reality for those who do not accept salvation through Christ.

Your notion?

J.

 

[MatthewG]

Where is Hell over with? You have Scripture references.

Johann. I wouldn’t proclaim such a proclamation if wasn’t there. A quick google search, is all it takes.

—

With op,

Jesus went to hell.

 

[Johann]

Johann. I wouldn’t proclaim such a proclamation if wasn’t there. A quick google search, is all it takes.

Doesn't work that way-show me in Scripture that Hell is over with-unless you hold to-

Preterism
Annihilation
Universalism

J.

 

[MatthewG]

Doesn't work that way-show me in Scripture that Hell is over with-unless you hold to-

Preterism
Annihilation
Universalism

J.

I’m so tired of people and their personal taggings. Good luck with that route. Thank you J.


You quote ppls stuff all the time… you know where it’s at.

Whether or not you believe hell is over is a personal thing between you and God. Faithfully, @Johann.

 

[face2face]

In traditional Christian doctrine, hell is seen as an eternal state of punishment or separation from God for those who reject His offer of salvation. Jesus speaks about it in terms of "eternal fire" (Matthew 25:41) and "unquenchable fire" (Mark 9:43), with language emphasizing its everlasting nature. This is supported by passages like Revelation 20:10, where the devil, the beast, and the false prophet are cast into a lake of fire and "will be tormented day and night forever and ever." Therefore, in this view, hell is not over with but remains a future and eternal destination for the wicked.

However, there are alternative interpretations of hell in Christian thought:

Annihilationism – This view holds that the souls of the wicked are not tormented eternally but instead are destroyed or cease to exist after judgment. Proponents of this view often interpret phrases like "eternal destruction" (2 Thessalonians 1:9) to mean final annihilation rather than unending torment. In this case, if annihilationism is true, one might argue that hell "ends" when the unrepentant cease to exist after judgment.

Universalism – This view posits that ultimately, all people will be reconciled to God, and hell is either temporary or symbolic. Supporters of this view may point to verses like 1 Timothy 2:4, which states that God "desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." If hell is understood as a temporary purifying process (like purgatory in Catholic theology), then it might be considered "over with" when all souls are reconciled to God. However, this view is considered heterodox in most mainstream Christian traditions.

Preterism – Some partial preterists, who believe most biblical prophecies were fulfilled by the end of the first century (especially with the destruction of the temple in AD 70), might suggest that references to hell and judgment are specific to the first-century context and the end of the Old Covenant. However, even preterists generally do not claim that hell itself is "over with" for individuals after death.

Ultimately, most traditional Christian interpretations see hell as part of the final judgment and not something that has already concluded. Whether hell is eternal or temporary depends on one's theological framework, but in the majority view, hell remains a future reality for those who do not accept salvation through Christ.

Your notion?

J.

I get you like you interpretive frameworks to pigeon hole believers, but I tend to look at the textual criticisms and textual analysis for form doctrinal truth.

For example:

For most scholars (including me), Sheol simply denotes the realm of the dead, a place to which everyone descends at death regardless of spiritual status. Indeed, some understand Sheol to refer mainly to ‘the grave’ (see the niv); such could be inferred from its underground location (Num. 16:30, 33; Amos 9:2), and its association with worms, maggots and dust (Job. 17:16; Isa. 14:11). But whether as a metaphor for the grave, or as a term for the Hebrew underworld, most consider Sheol to be merely the location of the dead. It is neither exclusively inhabited by the wicked nor a place of everlasting torment; rather, the only connotation of punishment lies in its association with death, the divinely decreed punishment for human sin (Gen. 2:17; cf. Rom. 6:23).

Should you understand the OT view of death and the destination of all who are subject to the law of sin and death, we could find unity of mind. However, we both know mythology and philosophy have entered into these subjects.

-Hell going
-Heaven going
-Immortal souls
-Eternal torture
-Ethereal Spirits in Prison

The list goes on and on how many subjects have been impacted by foreign notions which are not taught in the Word.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Jesus went to hell.

Correct...3 days in the grave

and I hold the keys of death and of *Hades (grave)! Re 1:18.

*Place of the dead.

In other words Jesus now has the Power and Authourity to unlock the grave and raise people out of it.

It's so plain and simple to understand.

F2F

 

[Johann]

I’m so tired of people and their personal taggings. Good luck with that route. Thank you J.


You quote ppls stuff all the time… you know where it’s at.

My apologies you are tired of people.

"always being ready to make a defense" This is the Greek term apologia, which is a compound of apo (from) and logos (word). It refers to a legal defense in a courtroom setting (cf. Act_19:33; Act_22:1; Act_25:16; Act_26:1-2; Act_26:24). This text is often used to encourage believers to be an evangelistic witness, which is surely needed, but in context this probably refers to official trials or interrogations. Notice that it is important for all believers to have a prepared, logical presentation of their faith in Christ, whether for a court or for a neighbor. Every believer should be ready to be a verbal witness!

If you don't have a prepared, logical presentation of your assertion then it's time for me to move on.

J.

 

[MatthewG]

My apologies you are tired of people.

"always being ready to make a defense" This is the Greek term apologia, which is a compound of apo (from) and logos (word). It refers to a legal defense in a courtroom setting (cf. Act_19:33; Act_22:1; Act_25:16; Act_26:1-2; Act_26:24). This text is my hoften used to encourage believers to be an evangelistic witness, which is surely needed, but in context this probably refers to official trials or interrogations. Notice that it is important for all believers to have a prepared, logical presentation of their faith in Christ, whether for a court or for a neighbor. Every believer should be ready to be a verbal witness!

If you don't have a prepared, logical presentation of your assertion then it's time for me to move on.

J.

I don’t have to defend something that’s already known to you. Hell is over with, unless you disagree…

You have no authority to act as though I must obey you by quoting a scripture? That’s called abuse? Manipulation even.

Scary thing I desire no part of.

 

[Johann]

In other words Jesus now has the Power and Authourity to unlock the grave and raise people out of it.

 

[Johann]

I don’t have to defend something that’s already known to you. Hell is over with, unless you disagree…

You have no authority to act as though I must obey you by quoting a scripture? That’s called abuse? Manipulation even.

Scary thing I desire no part of.

You made a statement, I asked you a question, and this is spiritual abuse?!

J.

 

[MatthewG]

Correct...3 days in the grave

and I hold the keys of death and of *Hades (grave)! Re 1:18.

*Place of the dead.

In other words Jesus now has the Power and Authourity to unlock the grave and raise people out of it.

It's so plain and simple to understand.

F2F

If it’s over with, Jesus will be resurrecting condemned and of life and those who sought the better resurrection. There is a destination now differing from once was the place of the dead…

It’s moved to “outside and inside of the Kingdom.”

That’s in revelation 21-22 which most people don’t care one bit about nor read it or consider it contents…

That’s my fault… and I’m okay with the Lake of fire being in front of the Lamb and his angels? And the gates of the kingdom never closing? And people who didn’t give a heck about God outside of the kingdom? And to me this makes God good!

You made a statement, I asked you a question, and this is spiritual abuse?!

J.

Nope?

 

[Johann]

If it’s over with, Jesus will be resurrecting condemned and of life and those who sought the better resurrection. There is a destination now differing from once was the place of the dead…

It’s moved to “outside and inside of the Kingdom.”

That’s in revelation 21-22 which most people don’t care one bit about nor read it or consider it contents…

That’s my fault… and I’m okay with the Lake of fire being in front of the Lamb and his angels? And the gates of the kingdom never closing? And people who didn’t give a heck about God outside of the kingdom? And to me this makes God good!


Nope?

Let me rephrase, maybe you don't get it, I asked you a question and you perceive it as manipulative?

J.

 

[Johann]

I get you like you interpretive frameworks to pigeon hole believers, but I tend to look at the textual criticisms and textual analysis for form doctrinal truth.

For example:

For most scholars (including me), Sheol simply denotes the realm of the dead, a place to which everyone descends at death regardless of spiritual status. Indeed, some understand Sheol to refer mainly to ‘the grave’ (see the niv); such could be inferred from its underground location (Num. 16:30, 33; Amos 9:2), and its association with worms, maggots and dust (Job. 17:16; Isa. 14:11). But whether as a metaphor for the grave, or as a term for the Hebrew underworld, most consider Sheol to be merely the location of the dead. It is neither exclusively inhabited by the wicked nor a place of everlasting torment; rather, the only connotation of punishment lies in its association with death, the divinely decreed punishment for human sin (Gen. 2:17; cf. Rom. 6:23).

Should you understand the OT view of death and the destination of all who are subject to the law of sin and death, we could find unity of mind. However, we both know mythology and philosophy have entered into these subjects.

-Hell going
-Heaven going
-Immortal souls
-Eternal torture
-Ethereal Spirits in Prison

The list goes on and on how many subjects have been impacted by foreign notions which are not taught in the Word.

F2F

William Hendriksen, The Bible On the Life Hereafter
Maurice Rawlings, Beyond Death's Door
Hard Sayings of the Bible, pp. 105, 426, 489, 493, 626, 637, 686, 723, 768
several good videos on YouTube on the views of Hell which developed in the early church
Edward Fudge, The Fire That Consumes: A Biblical and Historical Study of Hell
Edward Fudge, Rethinking Hell
Edward Fudge, Conditional Immortality
Edward Fudge, Proof Texts for Eternal Punishment
Steve Gregg, Hell ‒ Three Christian Views
Steve Gregg, Discussion on Hell

You should have these resources on your Logos-right F2F?

But I don't want to derail the thread.

J.

 

[MatthewG]

Let me rephrase, maybe you don't get it, I asked you a question and you perceive it as manipulative?

J.

I do believe people abuse scripture. I believe what you were trying to get me to do was abusive. Thats my perception. You may not perceive it to be so...

I also hate apologetics. That's just me as a human being, because if you start using apologetics its like SOLA scripture stuff.

I hate all of it.

 

[face2face]

William Hendriksen, The Bible On the Life Hereafter
Maurice Rawlings, Beyond Death's Door
Hard Sayings of the Bible, pp. 105, 426, 489, 493, 626, 637, 686, 723, 768
several good videos on YouTube on the views of Hell which developed in the early church
Edward Fudge, The Fire That Consumes: A Biblical and Historical Study of Hell
Edward Fudge, Rethinking Hell
Edward Fudge, Conditional Immortality
Edward Fudge, Proof Texts for Eternal Punishment
Steve Gregg, Hell ‒ Three Christian Views
Steve Gregg, Discussion on Hell

You should have these resources on your Logos-right F2F?

But I don't want to derail the thread.

J.

Immortality of the soul was introduced into Christianity around Ad124 so theologians have nearly 2000 years of itching each others ears on these subjects.

I'm only interested in the original Gospel as taught by the first Apostles

Do you have any works from them

F2F

 

[Johann]

I do believe people abuse scripture. I believe what you were trying to get me to do was abusive. Thats my perception. You may not perceive it to be so...

I also hate apologetics. That's just me as a human being, because if you start using apologetics its like SOLA scripture stuff.

I hate all of it.

Don't play the victim here and don't suggest I hold to Calvinism by insisting you to work with the Scriptures.
What you hate is food for my soul.

You have a blessed day.

J.

 

[face2face]

I do believe people abuse scripture. I believe what you were trying to get me to do was abusive. Thats my perception. You may not perceive it to be so...

I also hate apologetics. That's just me as a human being, because if you start using apologetics its like SOLA scripture stuff.

I hate all of it.

@Johann Matthew hears voices in his dreams, so these voices if different to the Word, the voices are authoritive.

I've found many Christians who spiritualize everything and read into the Word what they want to see. This goes beyond confirmation bias, it's delusion on a crazy level. It means your not able to have a basis of discussion unless you hear the same voice's Matthew hears in his head.

If the Lord returns soon we all will be corrected, but some more than others

F2F