It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[rebuilder 454]

WOW - you cannot even SEE the scriptures that you post - WOW

Anyone can see normal life , commerce, building, planting.
Your model is OPPOSITE THAT.

YOU ARE PRETENDING the words are not there.
Your doctrine did that to you.

 

[rebuilder 454]

This much you said is 100% TRUTH

Every example, scripture(s) and Individual listed below is POST-TRIB , Pre-Wrath Deliverance

Example #1 - NOAH
Example #2 - Daniel
Example #3 - Job
Example #4 - Elijah
Example #5 - John 16:33
Example #6 - Matthew chapter 24
Example #7 = Post-Tribber, the LORD Jesus Christ = our Overcomer
Example #8 - 1 Thessalonians
Example #9 - 2 Thessalonians
Example # 10 - 1 John
Example #11 - Revelation chapter 6
Example # 12 - Revelation chapter 14

And SO MUCH MORE beginning in Genesis Straight thru to Revelation

Seems like you are trying to prove that God has never gathered up his people and delivered them pre-tribulation. And so you're going to have a hard time with that because you got Lot ,and the baby Jesus, both gathered up and delivered pre-tribulation.

Now let's take a look at Noah .

way before the flood ever came Noah was gathered up and delivered FROM THE FLOOD, into the ark.
All the flooding came later.
The ArK was lifted up over a mile into the atmosphere via the flood.
The ark was up in the heavens during the tribulation.
After the tribulation Noah return to Earth from the heavens. That looks a whole lot like a pre-trip Rapture model to me.

I don't know how you can wiggle out of that.

 

[David in NJ]

Anyone can see normal life , commerce, building, planting.
Your model is OPPOSITE THAT.

YOU ARE PRETENDING the words are not there.
Your doctrine did that to you.

Anyone can see normal life , commerce, building, planting = for "THEY" who are doomed for destruction

Anyone can SEE that in scripture - IF, they desire TRUTH

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your post-trib rapture/resurrection timing is incorrect. You have incorrectly interpreted the gathering of the elect in Mark 13:27 and Matthew 24:31 as being the rapture.

But Mark 13:27 and Matthew 24:31 gathering is done by angels - as opposed to the rapture/resurrection event by Jesus's voice to raise the dead in Christ and change the living in Christ.

Your approach is ridiculous. Not every passage relating to the second coming/rapture/resurrection event contains all the same details.

Instead of being the rapture, the Mark 13:27 and Matthew 24:31 gathering of the elect will be the fulfillment of the Deuteronomy 30:2-6 and Ezekiel 39:28 gathering of the Jews to Israel, which no Jews will be left in the nations as they gathered to the land of Israel.

The elect are Christians, Douggg. You need to read the New Testament. You have failed to join us in the new covenant era and are still living in the distant past of the old covenant era. You have no understanding of scripture whatsoever.

I had asked you...

Who is speaking in Mark 13:27 and Matthew 24:31 ?
Who is speaking in Ezekiel 39:21-29 ?

The answer to both question is Jesus.

Ezekiel 39:21-29 is not about the second coming of Christ. Notice Ezekiel 39:29 talks about God pouring out His Spirit upon the house of Israel.

That happened long ago.

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. 5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. 12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? 13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine. 14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: 15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. 16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

In Ezekiel 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

The Jews presently do not believe that Jesus is the LORD their God.

Some of them do. It never says they all would. Everyone must choose to believe or not. Only if they were all forced to believe would they ever all believe.

That will change in the middle of the seven years of Ezekiel 39:9, that take place right after the Gog/Magog event. And in Revelation 12:10, as the seed of the woman, Israel, the Jews will turn to Jesus and the gospel of salvation.

Nonsense. Revelation 12:10 relates to Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven and that happened long ago as I've already shown you many times.

So the point of your argument that Deuteronomy 30:2-6 applies to some Jews, and not all Jews, is proven wrong by Ezekiel 39:28. And the fact that Deuteronomy 30:2-6 is yet to be fulfilled, as there are still Jews in the nations all around the world - invalidates the Amil belief of no thousand years of Jesus's rule on this earth following His return.

Condescending remarks and ridicule, and attempts to change the focus - from when Deuteronomy 30:2-6 will be fulled - is not adequate to keep the Amil view afloat.

Are you consistent with your hyperliteral approach to interpreting scripture? If you think those are talking about all Jews then do you believe the following is tlaking about God pouring out His Spirit on literally all people, since that's what it says?

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh.

That was beginning to happen on the day of Pentecost. Was God's Spirit poured out on literally all people or not? It clearly wasn't, so the context is in relation to all who believe and not literally all people. That's the context of the verses you are talking about as well. They apply to those who believe only, but you lack the discernment to understand that.

 

[David in NJ]

Seems like you are trying to prove that God has never gathered up his people and delivered them pre-tribulation. And so you're going to have a hard time with that because you got Lot ,and the baby Jesus, both gathered up and delivered pre-tribulation.

Now let's take a look at Noah .

way before the flood ever came Noah was gathered up and delivered FROM THE FLOOD, into the ark.
All the flooding came later.
The ArK was lifted up over a mile into the atmosphere via the flood.
The ark was up in the heavens during the tribulation.
After the tribulation Noah return to Earth from the heavens. That looks a whole lot like a pre-trip Rapture model to me.

I don't know how you can wiggle out of that.

God has never said HE would gathered up his people via pre-tribulation = TRUTH

God ALWAYS gathers up His Saints/People Pre-WRATH = ALWAYS

 

[David in NJ]

Seems like you are trying to prove that God has never gathered up his people and delivered them pre-tribulation. And so you're going to have a hard time with that because you got Lot ,and the baby Jesus, both gathered up and delivered pre-tribulation.

Now let's take a look at Noah .

way before the flood ever came Noah was gathered up and delivered FROM THE FLOOD, into the ark.
All the flooding came later.
The ArK was lifted up over a mile into the atmosphere via the flood.
The ark was up in the heavens during the tribulation.
After the tribulation Noah return to Earth from the heavens. That looks a whole lot like a pre-trip Rapture model to me.

I don't know how you can wiggle out of that.

God has never said HE would gathered up his people via pre-tribulation = TRUTH

NOAH = God ALWAYS gathers up His Saints/People Pre-WRATH = ALWAYS

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I answered that question before in my post #1424.....

"Jesus's coming for the rapture/resurrection event does not coincide with His return to stand on the Mt. Olives."

And I explained again the timing of the rapture/resurrection event in my post #1427....

Jesus 1st coming was when He entered the world, being born of Mary.

Jesus 2nd coming into the world will be when He returns to stand on the Mt. of Olives in Zechariah 14.


Jesus coming from the third heaven to the vicinity of the earth will be for the rapture/resurrection event. Could happen anytime between now and the day that the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation in 2Thessalonians2:4.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Condescending remarks and ridicule, and attempts to change the focus - from when Deuteronomy 30:2-6 will be fulled - is not adequate to keep the Amil view afloat.

You are attempting to change the focus - from when Deuteronomy 30:2-6 will be fulled - in an attempt to keep Amil afloat. It will not work.

LOL. Complete nonsense. You try to change the focus off of the entire New Testament, none of which supports pre-trib. The NT authors clearly did not have the same understanding of OT scripture that you have.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What third coming to walk upon the face of the earth ?

Jesus 1st coming was when He entered the world, being born of Mary.

Jesus 2nd coming into the world will be when He returns to stand on the Mt. of Olives in Zechariah 14.

Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Do you believe the coming of the Son of man referenced in Matthew 24:27 is the same coming of the Son of man referenced in Matthew 24:30?

 

[rebuilder 454]

If it were Truth it, God would of said it in His Word.

Can you find just one declaration of 'pre-trib' rapture? = Just one

Legal and legitimate Offer for $1,000 USD to anyone who can post just one scripture that declares:
a.) JESUS saying, "I will not permit My elect/saints/Church to suffer under the AoD"
b.) JESUS or the Apostles saying, "We(Church/Saints/Elect) will not be here when the Antichrist rises to power.
c.) JESUS or the Apostles or OT Prophecy, prophesying of more then ONE Resurrection for the Saints/Elect/Church
d.) JESUS or the Apostles saying: the Rapture PRECEEDS the Resurrection

If i had money i would up the Reward to $1,000,000.00

SHALOM only in the TRUTH = Thy word is Truth"

1) the Ac kills all refusing the mark
2) those left behind are martyred as is declared in Revelation.
3) the 2 escape verses are a big problem for the honest Bible student
4) "like manner return" is EXACTLY opposite your model .
5) Rev 14 :14 is not the white horse return...even in the most cunning imagination.
6) the one taken/ left behind can not possibly be 50/50 of earth's population. Totally impossible and depicts Jesus as a liar. Jesus said few enter the kingdom, not half the planet.
7) Rev 19 has the bride becoming the wife IN HEAVEN.
8) THE SAINTS are in heaven (in Rev 19) DURING THE TRIB.
9) REV 14 has the firstfruit JEWS in heaven during the trib. With the main harvest of Jews BY JESUS HOLDING A SICKLE, IMMEDIATELY AFTER FIRSTFRUITS GATHERING...DURING THE TRIB!!!!
10) the virgin parable vividly depicts the pretrib rapture with half the church being carnal non committed believers left behind.
11) NONE of the rapture verses are post trib setting!!!! ZERO!!!! EVERY SINGLE RAPTURE VERSE is pretrib, normal life, commerce.
EVERY SINGLE POSTRIB COMPONENT IS MISSING IN EVERY RAPTURE VERSE. 100%!!!!

No pretrib rapture verses ???
You have to be brain dead to believe that.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Do you believe the coming of the Son of man referenced in Matthew 24:27 is the same coming of the Son of man referenced in Matthew 24:30?

You just posted verses that line up perfectly with the pretrib rapture

 

[rebuilder 454]

We all agree he returns postrib

 

[David in NJ]

1) the Ac kills all refusing the mark
2) those left behind are martyred as us declared in Revelation.
3) the 2 escape verses are a big problem for the honest Bible student
4) "like manner return" is EXACTLY opposite your model .
5) Rev 14 :14 is not the white horse return...even in the most cunning imagination.
6) the one taken/ left behind can not possibly be 50/50 of earth's population. Totally impossible and depicts Jesus as a liar. Jesus said few enter tge kingdom, not half the planet.
7) Rev 19 has the bride becoming the wife IN HEAVEN.
8) THE SAINTS are in heaven (in Rev 19) DURING THE TRIB.
9) REV 14 has the firstfruit JEWS in heaven during the trib.
10) the virgin parable vividly depicts the pretrib rapture with half the church being carnal non committed believers left behind.
11) NONE of the rapture verses are post trib setting!!!! ZERO!!!! EVERY SINGLE RAPTURE VERSE is pretrib, normal life, commerce.
EVERY SINGLE POSTRIB COMPONENT IS MISSING IN EVERY RAPTURE VERSE. 100%!!!!

No pretrib rapture verses ???
You have to be brain dead to believe that.

You have some Good scripture= all are POST-TRIB

Question: PROVE from scripture that the LORD leaves His Saints when HE Comes so that they are "left-behind"

The LORD tells us to pray that we may escape the sins/temptations of the world so that at His Coming we are not JUDGED with the world.

OT Prophecy REFLECTS POST-TRIB Coming of the LORD = Revelation 19:11-20

 

[WPM]

You just posted verses that line up perfectly with the pretrib rapture

More twisting of truth and more avoidance. That is all you have, along with your constant insults.

 

[MA2444]

When you say 'pre-trib' you are no longer submitted to the Holy Spirit of Truth for pre-trib NEVER came out of the Mouth of God

So He didnt come right out and say it the way you wanted Him too and that's not my problem. Just because He taught about it but never said to your satisfaction, it will be pre trib....there's clearly two events described. One where He comes in the air for His Bride the church. (Or the best of the best of them at east?). And a second one where He comes to Mt of Olives and touches down.

We know that it is pre trib because it says to always be ready for Him at any moment.

Matthew 24:44
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.../KJV

That means it can happen at any time! It doesnt say after this and that happens it will be anytime after that, lol! When you say it has to be post trib then you are destroying the doctrine of Imminency. And you cant do that!

Go ahead my friend. Exegete that one verse for me. Pretend I'm dumb, what does Matthhew 24:44 even mean? To you.

 

[Freedm]

The Pretrib theory is dead. It is time to give it a decent burial. Anyone who observed the debate on the following thread will know how ludicrous and defunct the Pretrib position is.

The absurdity of Pretrib logic

Pretrib was well and truly put to death in that discussion. All Pretribbers had in response was ad hominem, belittling and avoidance (and in Dougg’s case distorted charts). There is nothing that they could do with clear and repeated Scripture, apart from dismiss it, twist it, or ignore it.

All of the arguments that were furnished in regard to the so-called Pretrib proof-texts were exposed and shown to teach the opposite of what they actually claimed. Many texts that Pretribbers presented made no reference to a rapture, a 7-years trib (or any trib) following a rapture. This was shown to be Left Behind fiction. None of the scriptural texts taught a 3rd coming of Christ. This was shown to be an extra-biblical Pretrib invention.

Now it is time to bury the corpse.

I want to highlight some of the extra-biblical Pretrib slants that were placed on the sacred text, and outline the biblical response, which Pretribulationalists had no response to. Whatever angle you look at the doctrine, it doesn't add up and Scripture does not teach it.

You will see as the thread develops how Pretribbers typically do their best to avoid the sacred text and simply denigrate the poster with their usual evasive and insulting responses. The old adage stands true: if you cannot attack the message, then attack the messenger.

Remember: we are going to look at all the main Pretrib "proof-texts." If Pretribbers are uncomfortable with these, and these do not prove the Pretrib theory (as they do not), then the theory is dead in the water.

I know it is hard to divorce a person's beliefs from the person. But this is not personal. I am not attacking Pretribbers, I am confronting what I believe to be false teaching here.

Daniel 9



Where in Daniel 9 does it mention the Church? Where does it mentioned a rapture? Where does it mention a tribulation period, and where does it mention a 3rd coming? It is simply not there! It has to be forced into the sacred text!

The 10 virgins

Jesus said in Matthew 25:1-13: “Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried (the intra-Advent period), they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom; ‘go ye out’ [Gr. exerchomai] to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came [Gr. erchomai]; and they that were ready ‘went in’ [Gr. eiserchomai] with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.”



Most end-time commentators correctly relate this passage to the coming of Christ. Whilst we cannot find any mention of phrases like “caught up” or “gathering together” in this text there is broad agreement that there is a definite reference to the catching away or rescue of the saints in the direction “go ye out” and the resulting action – they “went in.”

The command “go ye out” is simply one Greek word exerchomai meaning depart, escape, or get out, go. The phrase describing the response of the faithful “went in” is the single Greek word eiserchomai normally translated in the New Testament as to ‘come in’ or ‘to enter’. It can also be interpreted ‘to arise’. In keeping with many second coming passages there is an allusion to those who escape the judgment of God as being those who made themselves “ready.” This is a common theme found in regard to the catching away. It certainly correlates with the consistent portrayal of this impending climactic event. This passage is basically a call for preparedness for Christ’s coming.

The parable of the virgins actually agrees totally with the climactic nature of the coming of Christ. Men are either caught up or caught on. Being ready means rescue, being locked outside means destruction. Interpreting Scripture with Scripture would assist you here. As in Noah’s day, “the door was shut” – the day of opportunity was final closed – and those left outside were totally destroyed.

The solemn side of this parable is the awful plight of the five foolish virgins who had no oil in their lamps. Like the wicked that were left in Noah’s day, the religious will cry when it is too late: “Lord, Lord, open to us.” The only problem is it is too late. The solemn cry will come from the Master, “Verily I say unto you, I know you not” (vv 11-12). This is exactly what Jesus says to the wicked at the final judgment. He isn't saying: ‘welcome to a 7 year tribulation period’ or ‘welcome to the Premil millennium for another chance’. Sadly, they are damned and doomed for all eternity.

In this parable, Jesus rejects the unprepared virgins. In Pretrib theology it does not have Jesus finally shutting the door (as He taught), but, rather, leaving it ajar. It gives the foolish virgins a second chance to make it, despite them being unprepared and despite them having rejected numerous opportunities before He comes they miss the boat.

This passage is basically a call for preparedness for Christ’s coming. It is nothing to do with percentages. Many parables are like that. It is to do with believers and unbelievers. It is describing those that are ready and those that are not. The enlightened will get the thrust. Whether theologians want to apply this to the visible church or to all mankind makes little difference. That is not worth fighting over. It is the overall trust that Christ is pressing up - be prepared.

Obviously, those left behind are unbelievers! Whether they are religious unbelievers, false professors within the visible church, or out-and-out heathens, is secondary. They simply do not belong to Jesus. They are lost. They miss the boat! Their day of opportunity is gone. All they have now is destruction. They are damned and doomed to a lost eternity.

Yes. And while we're at it, we should also bury the entire rapture doctrine. And the tribulation doctrine, the anti-Christ, the one world government, the third temple. It's all nonsense.

 

[MA2444]

FALSE - and you already admitted you sit under and i qoute: "some of the best teachers"

I dont really sit under them...? I dont attend their church or anything. They are on Youtube. There is a slew of good teaching videos on youtube. Lots of lies and lots of truth being spoken. Do you think that in this day & age, that Jesus would have His own YouTube channel? He prolly has several, lol. Thats where many of the people are that He is trying to reach! So He most certainly does have His own channel for that reason. I listen to the likes of Chuck Missler, Charles Stanley, Andrew Wommack, Bruce Allen, Ian Clayton, Derek Prince, Keith Moore, Allen Nolan, CS Lewis, and Bradford McClendon. all those guys are good teachers in their own way.

But I dont subscribe to any of their teachings. None of them. I read the word for myself and know what I believe. But it's good to hear Pastors perspectives on everything and see if matches up with what I already believe.. I agree with some of what they say and it actually affirms for me the truth of my conviction.

Plus! When they say what you already know keep listening because this is another mans perspective and maybe he speaks an angle that I havent thought of yet? It's happened. So I pick up good tidbits from the teachers that I dont sit under. Some of these guys I have been watching for years and years. So at least I hear the word spoken by a Pastor even if I dont go to church. They have zillions of good gospel music on youtube also so the only thing I dont get is the fellowship. SO is that so wrong? Shall I tell you how I give my tithes & offerings also?

You got me, Yep. Ed listens to the word of God spoke, lol. There are teachers that I follow on youtube.
I dont keep following teachers on youtube that I dont agree with so be advised, all those I listed have a pre trib mentality. If you want truth about the Rapture I suggest looking up Allen Nolan from cornerstone Fellowship on youtube. That guy has a series on the rapture that is so thorough it isnt funny. He can explain the pre trib 10X better than I ever could. I just believe it!

 

[MA2444]

We are NOT to seek that which God has not Spoken to us through His SON

Jesus taught a lot about the rapture! What are you saying?

No rapture? Nothing to look forward to? I'm sorry brother, that aint my God. My God is the one that IS coming with a pretrib rapture!

Pretty cloudy out, it could be today! Uh-Oh, did I just sin? Bwahahahahaha! You know why the 5 foolish virgins didnt get to attend the ceremony? They wasnt eagerly awaiting his return so they didnt bother to stop off and get extra oil. They wasnt eager or watching like the wise virgins were, so they got left behind.

 

[amigo de christo]

Lot came OUT-OF great tribulation and was Delivered from God's Wrath by the Angels = Matthew 24:29-31

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days.....He will send His angels.....and they will gather together His elect"

We are fast building to that great and last hour of massive tribulation against the saints who would not conform to a lie .
our message shall remain the same as the message JESUS gave to HIS own .
IN THIS WORLD YE SHALL HAVE TRIBULATIONS
Some of you they shall put to death and they will deliver you up to authorities . YE shall be hated of all nations for my name sake
BUT he who ENDURES TO THE END the same shall be saved .
That which is of anti christ , sadly many now sit under its version of love to unify this world , its religoins to be as one .
The greatest hour of tribulation the church has ever seen will come out from this merger as they are convinced
the great time of the crusades against any and all who conformed not MUST BEGIN .
EVEN now some are being taught that true biblical christaintiy fundamental
is a disease upon earth . and they believe they are the cure . and the cure for the ills of this world
to them is , RID THE EARTH OF ALL THAT CONFORMED NOT . david , ITS COMING . and it can Begin
at any time . THIS WORLD is already decieved , much of christendom is already decieved .
Look at how fast a peoples leaped up to support hitler who promised them their desires .
THIS can kick off at any time DAvid . and when they come for us
to rid this earth of all that conformed not , GUESS WHOSE WILL they will believe they do .
GODS . as they already now believe its his will for this so called broad path , JESUS DENYING as the only way
junk pile which is of anti christ . Its increasing david . the hearts of the peoples
under its spell , are getting harder and harder against truth and any kind of reminder against their sin or their path .
ITS PICKING up pace david .

 

[MA2444]

Lot came OUT-OF great tribulation and was Delivered from God's Wrath by the Angels = Matthew 24:29-31

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days.....He will send His angels.....and they will gather together His elect"

Thats after His wrath is over. It says so. The GT is Gods Wrath upon the people to force them to look back to their God, and they will cuz there aint no atheists in foxholes. It doesnt say delivered through the wrath. It says escaped from, to escape those things which must come upon planet earth, It's all scripture. It's all Jesus talking. I'd post the refrences for the scriptures but I already have 400 times. You know them.

Those elect that He rescues after the tribulation is those who accepted Christ during the tribulation the 144,000 and all the people who were beheaded i the name of Christ. All those people.

Right, He sends His Angels to gather His elect...but before then He came personally for His bride in the air. It's two events no matter how you slice it.

 

[amigo de christo]

Anyone can see normal life , commerce, building, planting = for "THEY" who are doomed for destruction

Anyone can SEE that in scripture - IF, they desire TRUTH

I have seriously bad news . If a mans heart is set on deceptoin , can no man pry that mind off his own deception .
And if you dont believe me , JUST KEEP ON bringing loads of scrips . and you watch what they do .
What a man desires is what he will cling too , he will hold onto it with both hands and wrap his legs around it
and do all to not let go of that which he desires .
I ONLY WISH FOLKS had that DESIRE FOR TRUTH .
You should start asking questoins to people and YOU will see the WHY folks believe as they believe and why
its in error .
YEARS ago , when i was given my first computer i went onto it and found a christain site
at that time i had been following the LORD about five years and had been reading the bible for hours every day .
NOW upon arriving at this site . I noticed a ton of doctrines i had never even heard of .
AS i said , i was BIBLE learned , not church learned .
ANYWAY i began to see some serious and deadly errors within said doctrines .
I noticed no matter how much biblical doctrine i brought
they twisted it , omitted it ,
I wondered how on earth can so many believe so much error .
THEN a real small voice came to me .
WOULD you like to know what that voice said .
IT said YOU GO and bring the basic teachings of JESUS , HIS WORDS
to them and YE shall find they twist them . I DID , AND I SURE SEEN they did omit them .
THAT IS WHY men often might learn a whole lot and much of it can seem right and yet it do contain error .
THEY can teach all day on meats , or what they believe are spritiual meats and docrtrines , BUT ARE NOT .
THEY DO NOT EMBRACE ALL THINGS JESUS HIMSELF SAID , or ALL things the apostels did .
THEY embrace at best , SOME THINGS . BINGO and BULLEYES . PROOF something is dead wrong in their heart .