Did God Foresee Adam’s Disobedience?

[ChristinaL]

Dear GodsGrace,
This verse applies to our discussion:

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

In the spiritual language of Christ, "buying" represents accepting a belief from another person and "selling" is teaching a belief to another person. As the verse states, any person who has the mark of the beast cannot teach or receive truth from those who don't have the mark. Only believers in the apostate church can accept each others understanding of scripture.

The mark of the beast occurs when the spirit of anti-Christ indwells a believer. In contrast, the sealing of God occurs to an Elect believer when they receive the Latter Rain of the Spirit. Both events are spiritual and cannot be seen with human eyes.

Joe

This is complete and utter....(something I cant mention here but lets just say it comes out of a male cow. )

The mark of the beast is a literal mark, the technology of which already exists in the form of a microchip or bar code tattoo, which will replace all cash and plastic and one will have to have in order to physically buy or sell anything. There is no "spiritual language" in this. This is just garbage

 

[marks]

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit,

Let' put your words to the test, is this what this passage teaches? Let's see . . .

Mark 8:21-25 KJV
21) And he said unto them, How is it that ye do not understand?
22) And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him.
23) And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
24) And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
25) After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

I'm not seeing it. This passage says nothing about the new Christian.

To me it looks like you've started with an idea, in this case, that Christians are spiritually blind, and have found a passage that you use to illustrate that, although it has nothing to do with your assertion.

Christ also taught about the spirit of anti-Christ in these verses below:

Mar 5:2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, 3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains: 4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him. 5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones. 6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him, 7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, what have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. 8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit. 9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, my name is LEGION; for we are many. 10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country. 11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding. 12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. 13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand and were choked in the sea.

The "man" who is possessed by the many unclean spirits represents an Elect believer who has been fully made into a Man of Sin. In this “worse than the first” spiritual condition, he is ready for the “end” to come.

"represents an Elect believer who has been fully made into a Man of Sin"

No it does not. Your assertion are not found in Scripture.

Much love!

 

[marks]

the Early Rain of the Spirit

Not Scriptural.

Here are a couple of passages for you to consider.

Colossians 2:8-12 KJV
8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11) In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Much love!

 

[marks]

This is complete and utter....(something I cant mention here but lets just say it comes out of a male cow. )

The mark of the beast is a literal mark, the technology of which already exists in the form of a microchip or bar code tattoo, which will replace all cash and plastic and one will have to have in order to physically buy or sell anything. There is no "spiritual language" in this. This is just garbage

I've seen this so much over the years, that someone will declare some "spiritual meaning" that has nothing to do with the Bible, only that "this means that", and, "that means this", as they substitute whatever words works for their unscriptural teaching.

Much love!

 

[GodsGrace]

Dear GodsGrace,
This verse applies to our discussion:

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

In the spiritual language of Christ, "buying" represents accepting a belief from another person and "selling" is teaching a belief to another person. As the verse states, any person who has the mark of the beast cannot teach or receive truth from those who don't have the mark. Only believers in the apostate church can accept each others understanding of scripture.

The mark of the beast occurs when the spirit of anti-Christ indwells a believer. In contrast, the sealing of God occurs to an Elect believer when they receive the Latter Rain of the Spirit. Both events are spiritual and cannot be seen with human eyes.

Joe

I haven't studied Revelation and so I have no comment on Rev 13:16

I will, however, say that I've never heard it explained this way before....
You seem to have your own way of understanding everything biblical...

I apologize for not being able to post to you....I just find it too difficult.

 

[GodsGrace]

This is complete and utter....(something I cant mention here but lets just say it comes out of a male cow. )

The mark of the beast is a literal mark, the technology of which already exists in the form of a microchip or bar code tattoo, which will replace all cash and plastic and one will have to have in order to physically buy or sell anything. There is no "spiritual language" in this. This is just garbage

Yes. The above is what I understand the mark to be....although I'm no expert with Revelation.

 

[GodsGrace]

I must be a glutton for punishment because i rarely seem to know when to just drop these people lol

LOL
I can't understand half the stuff he's saying
and
I see that verses are taken out of context.
It's almost impossible to have a real conversation.

 

[GodsGrace]

I've think we've seen lots of that, this forum is like the wild west!

Much love!

It's like this on every forum....
I had started a thread once titled: DO PROTESTANTS NEED A POPE?
Sometimes I think Catholics have one over on us....
some of their doctrine is wrong but at least they don't believe odd ideas.
By odd, I mean ideas that a Catholic makes up on his own.

 

[FaithWillDo]

This is complete and utter....(something I cant mention here but lets just say it comes out of a male cow. )

The mark of the beast is a literal mark, the technology of which already exists in the form of a microchip or bar code tattoo, which will replace all cash and plastic and one will have to have in order to physically buy or sell anything. There is no "spiritual language" in this. This is just garbage

Dear ChristinaL,
The words of Christ are spirit (John 6:63) and he uses them in His "another language" (Isa 28:9-12). Spirit words carries meanings that are different than what man's wisdom teaches (1Cor 2:13). To understand spirit words, you must compare spiritual words with spiritual words and then with the discernment of the Holy Spirit, their meanings can be unveiled. Christ then teaches His truth in His spiritual language in parables, types, analogies and prophecies. To further complicate it, Christ teaches truth "here a little and there a little" and "line upon line and precept upon precept".

Because the truths of the New Covenant are taught in this mysterious way (1Cor 2:7), Christ controls who will understand them. Even after a believer is converted and has been given "eyes that can see", it is still a long and difficult process to unveil the teachings of Christ.

This scripture applies:

Prov 2:1 My son (a converted believer), if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, 2 making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; 3 yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, 4 if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, 5 then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

Because the truth is hidden from all but the converted Elect, new believers (babes who draw milk) cannot understand the spiritual teachings of the New Covenant. Because they cannot understand, Satan will masquerade as Christ and easily deceive them. God causes this to happen because He wants a person to have the fullest experience of evil (called the "Day of Evil") prior to Christ converting them.

The sealing of the Elect occurs when they are "sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise" (the Latter Rain):

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of Promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

This is the same "sealing" shown below:

Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

The sealing happens "in their foreheads" to represent that the believer's mind has been changed into the mind of Christ.

Now look at the mark of the beast:

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Like the sealing of the Elect, the mark of the beast (a man of sin/Seven Headed beast) is also spiritual. The apostate believer receives the mark when the spirit of anti-Christ enters them. With Satan's spirit deceiving the believer, they cannot "buy or sell" any teachings that do not come from the spirit of anti-Christ. After a person receives the spirit of anti-Christ, a spiritual process takes place within the believer which makes them "worse than the first". This is the believer's time of "great tribulation" that Christ mentions in Mat 24:21. It is also the time of Elijah's drought which types the time in between the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit when the believer become apostate.

After the believer has become a "man of sin" (like what happened to Judas), they are given the number 666. The number 6 is the number for mankind. When it is repeated three times, it means that the person has gone through a spiritual process. In this case, the spiritual process made them "worse than the first".

Until a believer is given the Latter Rain of the Spirit, the spiritual truths of the New Covenant are going to largely remain veiled from their understanding. That's the way God has planned it and no man can deviate from it by their supposed free will ability.

Joe

 

[marks]

LOL
I can't understand half the stuff he's saying
and
I see that verses are taken out of context.
It's almost impossible to have a real conversation.

I understand most if not all he's posting, I've seen things much like this for many years. First you claim spiritual understanding, and then you can say whatever you want without having to prove anything, or be in agreement with the Bible. Anyone who attempts to "fact check" with Scripture will be told they are unspiritual so they don't understand.

There is no basis for discussion.

Much love!

 

[FaithWillDo]

Not Scriptural.

Here are a couple of passages for you to consider.

Colossians 2:8-12 KJV
8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11) In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Much love!

Dear marks,

Christ comes to us a the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit:

Hos 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he (Christ) shall come unto us as the RAIN, as the Latter and former (Early) RAIN unto the earth.

John says that apostate believers will deny the Early Rain of the Spirit:

1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

John is not talking about believers who deny that Christ came in the flesh and went to the cross. A person is not a believer if they deny this truth because this understanding is what an carnal believer (babe) will understand after they are given the Early Rain of the Spirit. Since the new believer remains spiritually blind at this point, they can only see the physical and outward work that Christ did under the Old Covenant. In other words, the new believer can only see Christ "in the flesh". But because of the believer spiritual blindness and deceptions of Satan, the person believes that they are seeing Christ in the spirit because they believe He baptized them with the Latter Rain of the Spirit (what the apostles received on the Day of Pentecost.

Here are some verses:

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

James is teaching "babes" who have not received the Latter Rain of the Spirit and who are still waiting on the Lord to "come again" and give that baptism to them. He is reminding them to be patient because the "coming of the Lord draweth nigh".

When a person receives the Early Rain, they are indwelt with a small amount of the Holy Spirit:

Deu 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain (Early Rain) upon the tender herb, and as the showers (Latter Rain) upon the grass:

Job 37:6 For he saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth; likewise to the small rain (Early Rain), and to the great rain (Latter Rain) of his strength.

Joel 2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in Jehovah your God; for he giveth you the former rain (Early Rain) in just measure, and he causes to come down for you the rain, the former rain and the latter rain, in the first month.

Even with just a small amount of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit will give the person “spiritual gifts” and a measure of faith (Rom 12:3).

Here is where Paul speaks of the Early Rain that the new Gentile believers in Corinth received along with its accompanying spiritual gifts:

1Cor 1:6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you (Early Rain): 7 So that you come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: 8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end (Latter Rain), that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The testimony of Christ was confirmed in the Corinthian believers when they received the Early Rain and its “gifts”. With the Early Rain, the person would receive a measure of “faith” which would make the pathway “straight” for Christ to return later with the Latter Rain.

Paul mentions the “waiting” that all chosen believers must endure until Christ returns with the Latter Rain and salvation:

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

With the Latter Rain, an Elect believer will be “sealed” with the Holy Spirit of Promise which is the down payment of their inheritance until they receive their glorious spiritual body at the time of the bodily resurrection.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of Promise, 14 Which is the down payment (earnest) of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession (immortal spiritual body), unto the praise of his glory.

The “sealing” of the 144,000 servants of God in Rev 7:1-8 represents that all the Elect will be sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise (Latter Rain) prior to the judgment of Christ arriving. In other words, the Latter Rain will make them “blameless in the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ” (1Cor 1:8).

When Paul addressed his letter to the church at Ephesus, he distinguished between the believers who had received the Latter Rain and those who had only received the Early Rain:

Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints (both the Early & Latter Rains) which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful (Early Rain only) in Christ Jesus:

After Paul’s death, the pathway to salvation would be altered because of the coming of the spirit of anti-Christ. The spirit of anti-Christ would come into the church and not “spare the flock” (Acts 20:29-31). Those who fell prey to the wolves would be the believers who had only received the Early Rain. The spirit of anti-Christ would cause these “faithful” believers to mix their own “works” with faith. This mixing of works with faith would cause the believer to fall from grace (also called falling away) and lose their salvation. This is the sin that leads to death (Gal 5:4 & 1John 5:16). This is how the church became apostate and it remains so even up to today.

Consider these scriptures which depict the apostasy that occur in between a person receiving the Early and Latter Rains:

Psa 68:9 Thou, O God, didst send a plentiful RAIN (Latter Rain), whereby thou didst confirm thine inheritance, when it was weary (in an apostate condition).

Jer 3:3 Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no Latter Rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? (the Day of salvation for the Elect) I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder (voice of God) and RAIN (the Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see that your wickedness is great (become a man of sin/see the A of D), which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king (Satan).

For the Latter Rain the fall on an Elect believer, Christ will cause the believer to "call unto the Lord" for Him to give them understanding. He will answer by sending the Latter Rain of the Spirit which will heal their spiritual blindness (taught in Mark 8:15-25).

This verse applies:

Jer 33:3 ‘Call to Me, and I will answer you, and show you great and mighty things, which you do not know.’

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

I haven't studied Revelation and so I have no comment on Rev 13:16

I will, however, say that I've never heard it explained this way before....
You seem to have your own way of understanding everything biblical...

I apologize for not being able to post to you....I just find it too difficult.

Dear GodsGrace,
You haven't heard Revelation explained this way before because all the public teachers are apostate and they only have a carnal understanding of scripture.
Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

I understand most if not all he's posting, I've seen things much like this for many years. First you claim spiritual understanding, and then you can say whatever you want without having to prove anything, or be in agreement with the Bible. Anyone who attempts to "fact check" with Scripture will be told they are unspiritual so they don't understand.

There is no basis for discussion.

Much love!

Dear Marks,
Context is not all that important because Christ teaches "here a little and there a little". Consider the context of this verse, compared to what Christ was actually teaching:

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Does Christ really mean that if you use a sword to kill others, then you must likewise be killed with a sword? Literally, that is what He is saying. However, if we understand this verse literally, that statement can easily be proven to be false. There are countless examples of people who have used violence to kill others but then do not die from that same type of violence - it almost goes without saying.

Is Christ mistaken or is His message something else?

The spiritual language of the Word of God utilizes the Hebrew and Greek languages. However, Christ assigns meanings to the Hebrew and Greek words which are different from how they are commonly defined:

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things (words) with spiritual.

In Matt 26:52, Christ is using the word SWORD to teach us a spiritual message. To understand what this spiritual symbol represents, we must look at how it is used elsewhere in scripture. In other words, we must compare spiritual things with spiritual.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edge sword...

Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword...

From the verses presented above, it is easy to understand that the spiritual word SWORD represents the Word of God who is Christ.

Christ’s hidden spiritual point He is making in Matt 26:52 is that all who take up the Sword (those who are “called out”), must perish (death of the carnal nature) by the Sword. This death is a necessary part of the conversion process which happens when the Word of God (Christ, the Sword) comes to a person and gives them the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the Baptism of Fire (judgment of the carnal nature):

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with Fire.

This conversion event is what the Apostles experienced on the Day of Pentecost:

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of FIRE, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the HOLY SPIRIT, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

In the spiritual language of Christ, the Apostles took up the Sword and then died by the SWORD.

Joe

 

[Stumpmaster]

“The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps.” (Proverbs 16:9)

Jesus being Omniscient God The Word made flesh would know which option would be chosen.
I think that we must consider the infinite qualities within the Sovereignty of God.

Yes, my signature is testimony to the Omniscient aspect of God. He knew what Job's response to Satan's sabotage would be before He allowed it.

 

[GodsGrace]

Dear GodsGrace,
You haven't heard Revelation explained this way before because all the public teachers are apostate and they only have a carnal understanding of scripture.
Joe

Oh for goodness sake Faith....
everybody is apostate but you.
You're the only person that REALLY understands scripture.
God is keeping it hid from the rest of us....
Right.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, my signature is testimony to the Omniscient aspect of God. He knew what Job's response to Satan's sabotage would be before He allowed it.

Before He ALLOWED it.

OK

Man has free will.
God allows man to use that free will.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Oh for goodness sake Faith....
everybody is apostate but you.
You're the only person that REALLY understands scripture.
God is keeping it hid from the rest of us....
Right.

Dear GodsGrace,
After Paul's departing, the entire church which was made up of "babes" (Early Rain only), was completely devoured by the wolves (Acts 20:29-31). Nothing has changed since that time and it won't change because it is God's "will" for all babes to become apostate.

The teachings of Christ frequently teach about the apostasy that was soon to be coming. However, Christ teaches it in His spiritual language so that a true understanding of the apostasy will remain veiled from new believers (babes).

Consider this verse:

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The only reason that the very Elect were not deceived by Satan is because they were converted BEFORE the spirit of anti-Christ came into the world and devoured the church. A converted believer cannot be deceived by Satan.

The scripture in Isaiah teaches about the apostasy, too. You should read it again carefully and really consider the profound message that it teaches.

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts (converted believers/little children). 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they (the babes who draw milk) might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken (by Satan, this is when a babe becomes apostate).

The believers who are weaned from the breasts are converted believers. How do I know this? Because of what Christ says here:

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Only the Elect will be converted in this age. They are the First Fruits of Christ's harvest of mankind. For them, Christ will come to them TWO times.

Hos 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he (Christ) shall come unto us as the RAIN, as the latter and former RAIN unto the earth.

The first time Christ comes as the Rain is when He comes to an unbeliever and gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. The Early Rain is what gives a person their faith in Christ. The apostles received the Early Rain of of the Spirit when they walked with Christ. But because the Early Rain of the Spirit leaves a new believer (a babe) spiritually blind, they cannot understand the spiritual teachings of the New Covenant.

Consider what Christ said to the apostles below:

John 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now (why? because they are babes who draw milk). 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth (this is the Latter Rain), is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

When the Spirit of Truth came to the apostles on the Day of Pentecost, they were converted and went from being spiritually blind babes to being "little children" who can be "guided into all truth".

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Consider this: The apostles made a confession of faith and called Jesus "Lord" when they walked with Him. How were they able to do make this confession of faith?

There is only one way a person can make a confession of faith as this verse says:

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

The only way the apostles were able to make a confession of faith was because the Father gave them the Early Rain of the Spirit.

Christ confirms this truth here:

Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

With even just the small amount of the Spirit (the Early Rain), the apostles could understand (see) that Jesus was the Christ and have faith in Him. But because they only had the Early Rain of the Spirit, they were "babes" who could draw the milk of the Word. For that reason, Christ told them in John 16:12 that He had much more to tell them but that they couldn't "bear" it yet.

Were the apostles saved after they made the confession of faith after having been given the Early Rain of the Spirit? No, they were not. But they did have the faith which the Early Rain of the Spirit gave them. With this faith, Christ's pathway was made straight for Christ to "come again" and give them the Spirit of Truth (Latter Rain) and convert them (save them).

After the apostles received the Spirit of Truth (Latter Rain) and were converted, they went from being a babe to being a little child. This is when they were saved and when they entered the Kingdom of Heaven as Mat 18:3 says.

To be saved, a person MUST be given both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit.

Paul understood this truth and that is why He said this:

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

After a person is given the Early Rain of the Spirit, they can understand (see) the physical work of Christ that led Him to the cross (Christ and Him crucified). In the spiritual language of Christ, this is when Christ appears/comes to a person "in the flesh":

1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

If a person does not have the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot "see" Christ's first appearance. This is the reason why a person will remain an unbeliever.

Since "babes" are spiritually blind, they will deny that Christ ever came to them "in the flesh". They believe that He came to them like He did to the 120 Jewish Elect on the Day of Pentecost. This belief is why they deny the existence of the Early Rain of the Spirit which gave them their faith. And since they deny the Early Rain of the Spirit, they take credit for the faith that they have rather than giving credit to Christ who gave it to them with the Early Rain. This is one of the primary signs that a believer has become apostate.

Joe

 

[GodsGrace]

Dear GodsGrace,
After Paul's departing, the entire church which was made up of "babes" (Early Rain only), was completely devoured by the wolves (Acts 20:29-31). Nothing has changed since that time and it won't change because it is God's "will" for all babes to become apostate.

The teachings of Christ frequently teach about the apostasy that was soon to be coming. However, Christ teaches it in His spiritual language so that a true understanding of the apostasy will remain veiled from new believers (babes).

Consider this verse:

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The only reason that the very Elect were not deceived by Satan is because they were converted BEFORE the spirit of anti-Christ came into the world and devoured the church. A converted believer cannot be deceived by Satan.

The scripture in Isaiah teaches about the apostasy, too. You should read it again carefully and really consider the profound message that it teaches.

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts (converted believers/little children). 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they (the babes who draw milk) might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken (by Satan, this is when a babe becomes apostate).

The believers who are weaned from the breasts are converted believers. How do I know this? Because of what Christ says here:

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Only the Elect will be converted in this age. They are the First Fruits of Christ's harvest of mankind. For them, Christ will come to them TWO times.

Hos 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he (Christ) shall come unto us as the RAIN, as the latter and former RAIN unto the earth.

The first time Christ comes as the Rain is when He comes to an unbeliever and gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. The Early Rain is what gives a person their faith in Christ. The apostles received the Early Rain of of the Spirit when they walked with Christ. But because the Early Rain of the Spirit leaves a new believer (a babe) spiritually blind, they cannot understand the spiritual teachings of the New Covenant.

Consider what Christ said to the apostles below:

John 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now (why? because they are babes who draw milk). 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth (this is the Latter Rain), is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

When the Spirit of Truth came to the apostles on the Day of Pentecost, they were converted and went from being spiritually blind babes to being "little children" who can be "guided into all truth".

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Consider this: The apostles made a confession of faith and called Jesus "Lord" when they walked with Him. How were they able to do make this confession of faith?

There is only one way a person can make a confession of faith as this verse says:

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

The only way the apostles were able to make a confession of faith was because the Father gave them the Early Rain of the Spirit.

Christ confirms this truth here:

Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

With even just the small amount of the Spirit (the Early Rain), the apostles could understand (see) that Jesus was the Christ and have faith in Him. But because they only had the Early Rain of the Spirit, they were "babes" who could draw the milk of the Word. For that reason, Christ told them in John 16:12 that He had much more to tell them but that they couldn't "bear" it yet.

Were the apostles saved after they made the confession of faith after having been given the Early Rain of the Spirit? No, they were not. But they did have the faith which the Early Rain of the Spirit gave them. With this faith, Christ's pathway was made straight for Christ to "come again" and give them the Spirit of Truth (Latter Rain) and convert them (save them).

After the apostles received the Spirit of Truth (Latter Rain) and were converted, they went from being a babe to being a little child. This is when they were saved and when they entered the Kingdom of Heaven as Mat 18:3 says.

To be saved, a person MUST be given both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit.

Paul understood this truth and that is why He said this:

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

After a person is given the Early Rain of the Spirit, they can understand (see) the physical work of Christ that led Him to the cross (Christ and Him crucified). In the spiritual language of Christ, this is when Christ appears/comes to a person "in the flesh":

1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

If a person does not have the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot "see" Christ's first appearance. This is the reason why a person will remain an unbeliever.

Since "babes" are spiritually blind, they will deny that Christ ever came to them "in the flesh". They believe that He came to them like He did to the 120 Jewish Elect on the Day of Pentecost. This belief is why they deny the existence of the Early Rain of the Spirit which gave them their faith. And since they deny the Early Rain of the Spirit, they take credit for the faith that they have rather than giving credit to Christ who gave it to them with the Early Rain. This is one of the primary signs that a believer has become apostate.

Joe

Joe, I really cannot reply to such statements.

I admire anyone who could engage with you.
If you're trying to create your own religion, I doubt a Christian forum will be the place to start
since most on here seem to be biblically savvy to me.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Joe, I really cannot reply to such statements.

I admire anyone who could engage with you.
If you're trying to create your own religion, I doubt a Christian forum will be the place to start
since most on here seem to be biblically savvy to me.

Dear GodsGrace,
It is apostate believers who practice "religion" and it is Satan who formed it. In this religion, Satan masquerades as Christ and teaches another gospel by another spirit.

2Cor 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Religion is the attempt to make oneself acceptable to God by one's own works. True Christianity is not a religion because mankind's has no works to perform under the New Covenant of Grace through Faith. All the "works" are the works of Christ, both His physical works that He performed under the Old Covenant (the cross) and His spiritual works that He is performing now within the Elect. Christ performs these works solely because of His grace and not because a person does anything to deserve it.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

You would do well to believe what Paul says above.

Joe

 

[marks]

Deu 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain (Early Rain) upon the tender herb, and as the showers (Latter Rain) upon the grass:

So, it seems to me you work your way through the Scriptures, pulling certain ones out, that mention rains, or dew, or what have you, and you go through the verse, and change the words to say what you want, and that's your evidence of your doctrine.

You read similies, and even they don't fit quite right, so you change them, and this is what I'm to believe is true? When in fact the plain reading of the Bible refutes these things.

And the "line upon line, precept upon precept", you should read the context in that passage and see what it is really about. Infantile drunks, that God will speak to "line upon line, precept upon precept", so that they'll be snared and will fall on their keisters.

You call this spiritual understanding, however, no true understanding of the Bible will contradict what it says. You know what they say, Words have meanings.

Much love!