Brainwashing/ Conditiong.
- Thread starter Ritajanice
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3 Resurrections
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This is very true. Let me give a personal example. Three and a half years ago my father died in his 90's. We travelled to visit him and arrived a day before he died. Under morphine, he just barely recognized me. I had always loved and respected my father, and saw in him a truly godly, intelligent man, who did his best to raise his four children to serve the Lord, and to provide a consistent example of faithfulness for us all his life. But unfortunately, he also came with some really twisted theology that it took me years to recognize just how crazy my parents' beliefs were that had saturated their thinking.
My brother chose to read a selection from my father's personal diary at our family gathering the day of his funeral. In this diary entry, my dad recounted how he and our mom had tried to have a son born first, so that my father could be assured of an heir to pass his inheritance to, and to carry on the family name. After having three daughters one after the other to start their family, a friend finally counseled them in some natural remedies they could try, in order to optimize the chances of having a male child the next time. These remedies succeeded, and my brother, the 4th and last child, was finally born. "We found out too late", was my father's written comment at the end of this diary entry.
I was stunned to hear this. In other words, we three daughters my mother had (unfortunately) given birth to first of all were essentially considered a "mistake" compared to the vastly more important "heir apparent" who should have been born first. We three girls should have been born last, at the very least. We female children were categorized secondary in importance, for certain. And I have already mentioned on this website in the closed "Obedience" thread that we were taught from childhood that as wives, we were to obey our husbands in everything - even if they commanded us to commit a sin. In this case, God would place the blame for that sin on our husbands instead of us, they taught us. This was pure idolatry, as I should have known. No one can bear the guilt of another's sin but Christ Jesus alone.
My father in glory has been perfected of this gross error (and others) by now, thank God. But it explains quite a lot of how we three girls were treated over the years, compared to my brother. I do not resent my brother. He, too, has grown to be a most godly man like my father, faithful in all things (but also with some skewed theology). It was not his fault that my parents had such a misguided attitude towards the female gender.
But it is very discouraging knowing that the very Christian influence they labored to instill in us also included the abusive training that corrupted the very scriptures they were trying to teach us. This set up all three of us girls to have marriages in which we were pre-programmed to be doormats. Thankfully, God is able to use even gross errors to turn them to good for His children - including His beloved daughters.
Like you Ritajanice, I can now recognize the signs of an authoritarian bully from a mile away. With sixteen past years in a cult church environment which my husband insisted we both join back in the 80's (corporal punishment for wives recommended in the men's meetings), I have learned to never... NEVER... N E V E R believe another person if what they teach me is counter to what the Holy Spirit inside me is teaching me from God's word. The scriptures equally belong to me to understand and interpret, as well as any titled author, professor, doctor of divinity, pastor, evangelist, husband, etc.. In God's eyes, He tends to "hide things from the wise and prudent, and reveal them unto babes. Even so Father, for so it seemed good in Thy sight."
We are all Babes on this particular forum, so the bread is actually buttered on our side.
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3 Resurrections
Active Member
I totally recognize that road. It is a path with specific phases in it that cannot be skipped over. I would compare that road to the grieving process at the sudden death of someone beloved. They say one passes from stunned, shocked denial, to profound weeping, then exhaustion, then to anger - maybe even at God, then onward to a more calm spirit, then to acceptance, and finally the ability to once again experience moments of joy or even thankfulness in remembrance. Or something similar to that.
Long-term trauma requires virtually the same path to process the memories. Because it is like dealing with the death of the person you wish you could have been without all the attached baggage. There are no shortcuts or detours on this road.
I well remember the utter despair of feeling as if I were a tortured, impaled insect mounted on a board while God enjoyed watching my struggles to escape. Bitterness is ugly, and I struggled with it for many years. In spite of all my efforts to follow Him faithfully from my youth upward, God still had allowed certain evil things to happen to me, and at the hands of those who were Christians. In one of my angriest moments, I told the senior pastor's wife that I thought God was an egotistical p**ck. That I was only waiting for my husband to cheat on me or for me to die in order to have deliverance - neither of which happened.
Even as I said those words to her, a tiny comforting voice inside told me that my Father God was big enough in mercy and patience to allow me to flail away at Him without crushing me for my anger at Him.
A big step in healing came with the answer to my very specific prayer for our son who was deployed in wartime overseas. Without going into the full story for the moment, God handed both him and our family a literal miracle of deliverance on a silver platter. I felt like repeating Hagar's statement of faith when she said in the wilderness, "Thou God seest me". I had been seen, and I had been heard. Personally, and in specific detail to my request.
A further step in healing came about a decade ago. For several years, I had daily been digging into the most intensive Bible studies I had ever done in my entire Christian life on eschatology themes. I was weary of getting no answers to my questions from anybody, and decided that God could speak to me just as well as He could speak to a pastor. I started a diary on what God began to show me on a daily basis. It was like manna in the wilderness - just enough of revealed truth every day to lead me a step further. It soon became apparent that I would have to jettison most of what I had been taught from my childhood and upward in order to remain true to what scripture was saying.
By now (12-13 years down the road), my continual eschatology studies over this time span have yielded so many answers to every question I ever had that it astonishes me that God would take the time to give all this information to me - a woman studying on her own, with merely a high school diploma to my credit. And I was finally able to actually thank God for every harsh thing that had ever happened to me. Because it had prepared me in very specific ways, and led me to a place where God could entrust me with the most precious gift of understanding His Word. Truly, just as God promised, if you seek Him, you will find Him, if you search for Him with all your heart.
My husband (who is ordained with an MDiv., and now serves as one of the elders at the SBC church I no longer attend) now calls me a heretic with perverted doctrine. We have grown poles apart by now. We can no longer converse about the scriptures at all because he explodes with anger at every point I attempt to bring up. I have learned to simply release him to God, without trying to have any meeting of minds about scripture subjects anymore. I cannot possibly unlearn what God has given me from His Word. And I have begged God not to let me believe a lie. If I am in error on anything, I want Him to show me so that I can dump it. My reliance is on Him alone. I am done with depending on so-called professionals who have so often led believers astray.
"They that seek the Lord understand all things". This is the verse I try to cling to, just like a child. As I wrote on another forum, I can feel His face turned towards me now, and I never want to leave His feet.
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@Ritajanice @3 Resurrections
I can relate to so much of what you ladies have shared.
I have had a headache most of the day so I may not be up to any lengthy posts. lol
I can relate to so much of what you ladies have shared.
I have had a headache most of the day so I may not be up to any lengthy posts. lol
Sisters, I am busy reading an excellent book called:
Redeeming Power: Understanding Authority and Abuse in the Church
Diane Langberg.
She has a ministry to the spiritually abused in the church, and I am finding this book to be excellent but don't come back to bite me if she goes south later on in it! I am not quite halfway through it.
I have suffered extreme levels of abuse all of my life and only woke up this past year, to the narcissistic family system in which I was raised which led me to be open to further abuse in two marriages and spiritual abuse in the church.
I am coming to see it as a gift, that allows me to understand scripture at a much more deeper level as miraculous healing is taking place in me and I fall in love with my Saviour over and over again.
Those who have known serious abuse and have recovered are giants in spiritual warfare and what the world needs now.
Redeeming Power: Understanding Authority and Abuse in the Church
Diane Langberg.
She has a ministry to the spiritually abused in the church, and I am finding this book to be excellent but don't come back to bite me if she goes south later on in it! I am not quite halfway through it.
I have suffered extreme levels of abuse all of my life and only woke up this past year, to the narcissistic family system in which I was raised which led me to be open to further abuse in two marriages and spiritual abuse in the church.
I am coming to see it as a gift, that allows me to understand scripture at a much more deeper level as miraculous healing is taking place in me and I fall in love with my Saviour over and over again.
Those who have known serious abuse and have recovered are giants in spiritual warfare and what the world needs now.
3 Resurrections
Active Member
Thank you for bringing this up. I read the sample of this book that amazon provided. This would be well worth purchasing from what I can see. My one red flag is that she uses the term "authority" for the power that the church is to wield. I don't believe Christ meant for the church He founded to be so adamant about any inherent, so-called "authority" structure in and of itself. Pastoring is a servitude and a ministry instead of any imaginary "office" (a point which I think this author would actually agree with). The only real "authority" is the headship of Christ over all things to the church, and the authority of the scriptures themselves which were given to one and all to study and use.
With the saturation of men leading the church and barring women from joint leadership in the ministry, it has morphed into something unrecognizable to the ideal that Christ intended. There is no real balance or representation of both male and female influences leading most of the church assemblies. As in a family unit, God intended these two perspectives to jointly raise children to maturity. Single parent families are at a definite disadvantage - whether that single parent is either male or female. Same for the church family.
Because men tend to default to war, the male-dominant church over the past centuries has been plagued with an imbalanced, overly-militant presence; at once both heavy-handed, and oppressively authoritarian over the flock, of which Christ is truly the actual Chief Shepherd over all. For example, can we say "Inquisition"? Christ strongly cautioned His disciples in Matthew 20:25-28 against this exercise of authority over the flock, (just like the Gentiles were accustomed to do), but the church has unfortunately continued to default to that same bad habit.
A question, Hepzibah. What exactly do you mean by "spiritual warfare" needed today?
Yes agreed, and later, so does she. She emphasizes that we are compliant if we do not stand up and speak up.
After finishing the book, I think everyone in the church should read it.
Speaking out against what is accepted as normal.
3 Resurrections
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Okay, just checking on what you consider "spiritual warfare" to be. I should forewarn you that with my eschatology studies, I see scripture texts teaching that Christ eliminated the entire wicked Satanic realm completely back in AD 70. The entire body of unclean spirits were to "pass out of the land" at that point (Zech. 13:2).
Scripture passages teach me that God burned Satan the "anointed cherub" to ashes upon the earth back in AD 70 so that "never shalt thou exist anymore" (Ezekiel 28:18-19). So anybody in a "deliverance ministry" today of exorcising devils or battling Satan is wasting their energy trying to deal with a set of foes that no longer exists in this world.
The "spiritual warfare" we deal with at present is with our own heart's wicked desires as well as the "children of the devil" (as Christ called the Pharisees). Ever since AD 70, humanity has had no one but themselves to pin the blame on for their evil practices. "Spiritual warfare" is the family members of Christ's kingdom destroying the strongholds of wicked humanity exercising evil in this world. It is not three enemies which we struggle with ("the world, the flesh, and the devil"). The battle progress is one down, and two to go at this point. God eliminated Satan our great enemy and his hosts back in AD 70, and has been incrementally growing His "stone" kingdom in this world ever since.
@3 Resurrections
Sister, that's where I fully disagree. Satan and demons exist still to this day. I experienced close contact in the rituals I was subjected to. I was used as a gateway/conduit on the altars from age 3. I have seen the entities myself, and they used me as the gateway/portal, etc. I witnessed them bringing in more fallen angels in 1976 when I was age 4.
Sister, that's where I fully disagree. Satan and demons exist still to this day. I experienced close contact in the rituals I was subjected to. I was used as a gateway/conduit on the altars from age 3. I have seen the entities myself, and they used me as the gateway/portal, etc. I witnessed them bringing in more fallen angels in 1976 when I was age 4.
3 Resurrections
Active Member
I fully understand your objections to what I just wrote. And I am mindful that the terms of this women's only forum are not to engender any kind of rancorous debate. This view of the scriptures describing the past elimination of the entire Satanic realm is what I get pushback on all the time when I post the related scriptures. And the entirety of scripture shows me when and where all the members of the Satanic realm were destroyed long ago. I am quite willing to appear the fool on this point.
I would ask you if you can utterly trust the impressions you remember from early childhood, if there are scriptures that contradict what your perceptions of those experiences were? Which is to be relied on more than the other? Were the wicked individuals who had you at their mercy in the practice of using mind-altering drugs in their rituals? Would you even remember it if they had given you something back then? The mind is a marvel of God's creativity which scientists will never be able to completely comprehend - even when it is disordered or affected by substances which alter its performance. Even AI will never be able to duplicate God's handiwork by creating a living soul.
I would not put it past those evil individuals to have injected you with a substance which created images and impressions in your mind that you were actually encountering something demonic. The power of suggestion is not to be underestimated. Mother church has been using the threat of the Satanic in order to keep its members under deluded, fearful subjection for a very long time - and continually contributing to keep their coffers full of funds.
I trust them 100% because God is the one who led me into my past and brought those memories to me one by one so that I could be healed. He taught me to pray for truth, according to His Word. And I trust Him. He is not duplicitous. When His children ask for truth, He will not give them lies. (If I ask for a fish, He will not give me a serpent. If I ask for bread, He will not give me a stone.)
They weren't impressions, but actual experiences. I have seen into the spirit realm as an adult as well, and God has given me very accurate dreams revealing the nature of the controlling entities over lands, and also that works through Trump. He also revealed to me what would happen as a result of that controlling entity, which has come to pass.
I don't see the scriptures as contradicting any of my experiences.
Sister, we don't have to debate it. I think that God the Holy Spirit is our teacher. Each of us are where we need to be as long as we are surrendered to Him and hearing His voice.
Edited to fix typo: in bold.
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There is no mistaking when you experience spiritual rape by demonic and fallen entities. You feel it in the body and to the core of your being.
They don't give drugs when they use someone on the altar like that. The person is specifically chosen by bloodlines, from infancy because of their spiritual capacity, because of their goal of bringing in more fallen entities (fallen angels).
3 Resurrections
Active Member
I used to be fearful after reading books concerning the fallen angels of the spirit world as a young teen. Then in my more recent eschatology studies, I encountered the scriptures that said God had not put the world under subjection to the angels in the world that was coming in the first century (Hebrews 2:5). Also, that God was going to "shortly" crush Satan under the feet of the Roman saints in their own generation (Romans 16:20). There is nothing left but the "elect angels" today - none of which is capable of turning into a fallen angel. The "elect angels" are as secure in their righteous standing as the salvation of the elect children of God on earth.
God used the entire realm of unclean spirits, the devils, and Satan to judge the nation of Israel - especially Old Jerusalem/ Mystery Babylon. That city became a prison for "every unclean spirit" and "the habitation of devils" (Rev. 18:2), after which Jerusalem siege Zechariah 13:2 prophesied that God would cause the unclean spirits to "pass out of the land".
Isaiah 24:21-23 also predicted the punishment of the host of evil angelic hosts by imprisonment in Old Jerusalem. After many days, these evil angelic hosts would be "found wanting" - meaning gone from existence in biblical parlance. Jesus also predicted this seven-fold plague of wicked spirits coming upon those of His generation in their "last state" (Matt. 12:43-45). Old Jerusalem by this means experienced in the first century a time of "great tribulation" that would never be duplicated ever again in history.
I'm not exactly certain what you mean by "spiritual rape". Scripture doesn't describe this happening anywhere that I know of. The fallen angels for whom God had originally created celestial-fleshed bodies back in Genesis 6 had actual physical sexual relations in marriages with human women, producing hybrid progeny that became giants and "men of renown". When those hybrid giants died, their departed spirits became the "unclean spirits" that desired to enter the bodies of humans once again. They of course were a widespread plague on the nation of Israel during Christ's ministry. But these were what God got rid of by first imprisoning every one of them in AD 70 Old Jerusalem, and disposing of them in that location. Whatever you experienced in your early childhood could not be related to any of the fallen angelic hosts who are now "found wanting" by being absent from this world.
Genesis 6:1-4
[1]And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
[2]That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
[3]And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
[4]There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Those verses, specifically verse 4, explain why and how there were giants (nephilim) both before and after the flood... "when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them..."
Jesus said that the days of Noah, and of Lot would happen again and it is happening now.
3 Resurrections
Active Member
But this is not spiritual rape. It is actual physical sexual relations of angels who "left their first estate" (Jude 6) and married human women (not little 4-year-old girls) in order to deliberately propagate a hybrid species. Satan knew this would be a way to ruin the chances of the prophesied "Seed of the woman" coming through the human race who would crush the head of the serpent.
God did not design the celestial-fleshed (1 Cor. 15:40) bodies of the male angels to multiply by reproduction. They were a set, limited number of created order of beings - and they were not created as mere spirit alone. Some of this angelic order of celestial-fleshed beings broke that boundary of restriction on their species and decided to produce a hybrid offspring from those marriages to human women.
If God had allowed this practice to prevail over the earth, the prophesied Seed of the woman could not have been born of solely-human descent, and God's plan for having a salvific High Priest representative come from among the human species would have been lost. Hence, Noah's flood, and later on, God commanding Joshua's campaign to wipe out the nations of giants in the land of Canaan, and King David's mighty men and their war against the last seed of the giants in those days.
And yet, they do these things and more, just as they did in the days of Noah and Lot.
Sister, my experiences are confirmed by scripture as well as by the Lord who took me to each memory and still continues this process for my healing. I won't debate this.
I have to go get supper done and finish some things in the yard before dark. I'll be back later.
Sister, my experiences are confirmed by scripture as well as by the Lord who took me to each memory and still continues this process for my healing. I won't debate this.
I have to go get supper done and finish some things in the yard before dark. I'll be back later.
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