What sort of death did A&E die in the day they ate thereof?
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Sadly, people do not understand Genesis 2:17 that this verse is pointing to the Second death outcome for all the people who sin against God and have not repented of that sin after they have been judged to be unrighteous and sent to be cast into the Lake of Fire.
As such Adam and Eve did not die on the spot when they sinned but rather, they made themselves to be candidates for the second death at the time that the final judgement will takes place.
As such Adam and Eve did not die on the spot when they sinned but rather, they made themselves to be candidates for the second death at the time that the final judgement will takes place.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
It’s a long leash……definitely not a short one.
The devil was given permission to afflict Job only on one proviso….in the first test he was told not to touch Job himself….but look what he did to everything Job valued…..even taking all 10 of his precious children in one incident….followed by all of his possessions being taken one after the other….leaving this previously wealthy man, destitute and with the most profound grief imaginable. His wife also suffered with him.
Did the devil need to ask permission as to what he took from Job? It was just a free for all.
The second test was that he could afflict Job in a physical way, but he was not allowed to take his life. Are there worse things than dying? Think about what freedom satan was given….Job’s suffering was so profound that the man couldn’t speak for a week, and then had to endure the finger pointing of three so called comforters…..it was a very long leash indeed.
Think also of the death that Christ suffered….paying the ransom for the human race was accomplished in his death……but the unnecessary suffering was inflicted by satan’s minions, who obviously had their own enjoyment in making his death as painful as possible. Where was the leash there?
Look at the state of the world. Look at what humans are capable of doing to one another…the most heinous weapons imaginable have been invented, used, and threatened for decades since Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Who could be behind the invention of such weapons capable of wiping out all life on this planet?….satan and his henchmen have great capacity for human suffering and will inflict it as often as possible….but only if they can find those stupid enough to do the devil’s bidding….seems like he has so any willing volunteers.
For what possible reason could God allow his faithful ones to suffer so?
What was the basis for all that suffering? Can you tell me?
Good questions Jane and I don't have all the answers because in essence the conflict is between God and the devil in the first place, after his fall from grace God could have thrown the devil immediately in hell, but God did not, it's one of those questions why God did not and let him play his role in history, we can only speculate.
I don't think we can blame the devil on about everything, much comes forth because there are evil people.
But let's go to the Fall of humankind in the Garden, due to the lies and half truths of the devil A&E insisted to be like God and wanted to know all about good and evil. And it seems to me that God gave them exactly what they asked for and they were expelled from the heavenly place into the hostile world we live in and so we experience both good and evil.
I know the devil is on a leash, notable in my unrepentant state of mind I survived a demonic attack. I was walking home in the night when I suddenly heard a strange noise behind me, I turned and saw a man with bewildered eyes storming at me. At the same time he stopped looked up (without looking at me any longer) and his eyes became full of fear, he turned and ran away as fast as he could. At the time I did not understand what happened.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
What sort of death did A&E die in the day they ate thereof?
an isolating one packed with fear and blame. One that infects progeny infinitum.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
There are clues in the Scriptures that help us understand things in a little more detail.
For instance, what was the devil doing there in the garden in the first place?
Ezekiel helps us out there.....when God had him direct a dirge to the King of Tyre, we can see by his words that he is actually addressing someone whom the King was emulating in his disposition and conduct.....
Ezekiel 28:….
“You were the model of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eʹden, the garden of God.
You were adorned with every precious stone. . . .
They were prepared on the day you were created.
14 I assigned you as the anointed covering cherub.
You were on the holy mountain of God, and you walked about among fiery stones.
15 You were faultless in your ways from the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you. . . . .
17 Your heart became haughty because of your beauty.
You corrupted your wisdom because of your own glorious splendor.”
There are things in this dirge that do not apply to the human King of Tyre.
He was not in the garden of Eden....and he was not an anointed covering cherub, walking about on fiery stones.
No sinful human was “a model of perfection”, except Jesus. No human was “faultless” either, apart from Jesus, and the King of Tyre was not “created”.
So this dirge was really about satan and the circumstance pertaining to his rebellion in Eden. He was carried away by his own magnificence and wanted the worship that the new humans would give to their Creator.....but first he would have to separate them from God and take his place in their life, deceptively gaining their worship through the various false religions that he ended up introducing into the world.
When we get to see the big picture, we can see what the devil wanted and how he came to achieve it.
God allowed him to gain what he wanted.....he was handed rulership of the world (Luke 4:5-7) to show all mankind, as well as his angelic brothers, what results from gaining a knowledge of evil.
Did they “become like God” or did God know that it was not ever beneficial to know what evil was?
There is only one reason why humans became evil....and it goes back to the loss of their original perfection when sin entered into the world through Adam’s disobedience. The devil, by abusing his own free will, set the human race on a course that required God to send Jesus to redeem them by offering his own life in exchange for theirs.
They were never in heaven....they were mortal beings, created to live on an earth that was carefully prepared for all the creatures that God created to enjoy life here. Placed in a beautiful garden, planted by God, they wanted for nothing, and death would never have overtaken them if they had remained obedient.
When they lost their perfection through sin, death would take them into the degeneration of old age and sickness.
They were given a commission to “fill the earth” with their children and to “subdue” or tame the land outside the garden. Eventually the whole world would have looked like an Edenic paradise.... but we lost that because of three very selfish individuals.....yet, not forever. A reality check was in order. They could not be told to be obedient to God, so he had to show them what disobedience would lead to….and here we are.
I have heard of similar experiences. One of my spiritual sisters was working in a rough neighbourhood and called at the door of a man notorious for his hatred of religion and his anger often expressed in violent outbursts, but this day he was non-combatant, even polite. We heard later that a friend of his had seen the exchange and asked him why he responded so calmly to this older lady on her own. The man explained that it wasn’t the lady but the big burly fellow that was with her that made him back off. So unbeknownst to this dear sister, apparently an angel was with her in her ministry that day.
We really don’t know what goes on behind the scenes, just as Job was unaware of the fact that he was being used as a test case in a faithfulness to his God, in very extreme circumstances. Could we have withstood what Job did, without knowing why it was happening? God knew in advance that Job was a man of strong faith and integrity, and that his faith would hold out.
God will never allow us to go beyond what we can bear. (1 Cor 10:13)
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Are you talking about JW’s?
This is not true.
In fact , it’s well-known that we remove those who practice sexual immorality.
We’re not afraid of hard questions! Ask away, as long as it’s friendly.
There’s the media for you. And biased people spreading misinformation, aka, half-truths & lies.
It happened to Jesus, too.
What sort of death did A&E die in the day they ate thereof?
What does the Genesis account reveal?
At Genesis 2:17, God tells Adam:
“But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.”
That’s it! Nothing else!
Now if death had been something they weren’t familiar with, a new concept for them, wouldn’t God have explained it? Of course He would have! He’s a loving parent, isn’t He? If at his death Adam was going ‘to another realm’, God should have told him.
But God said nothing else! Nada!
So what kind of death did A&E know about? The animals, seeing some of them die.
When you read Genesis 3:19, was Adam threatened with torment? What did God say was going to happen to him?
The same that Ecclesiastes 3:19,20 says.
And the fact that God told him he would die that “day”, “Yom”, (and yet he died at 930 years old,) is evidence that a “day” in the Creation account, can mean more than just 24 hours!
In agreement so far.
God's garden is of course a supernatural place where the laws of physics don't count. There was no death as long as A&E kept that one tiny commandment. Death is an enemy, God is a God of the living (Matt 22:32). Secondly A&E lived in the presence of God but not any longer when they were thrown on the natural world as we know it, the one with the laws of physics with death as a necessity.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
This is a very different take on the whole garden of Eden scenario…..may I ask where you heard this version of events as it is not found in the Bible.
A&E were created on the earth as Genesis says. God already had spirit sons in heaven, myriads of them, but this human creation were entirely material and, as flesh and blood cannot exist in heaven, (which is a non material realm), the inhabitants of heaven are spirits, like God is. (John 4:24) The inhabitants of earth are designed for a material existence dependent on life support that God supplied for all “souls” who inhabit this planet. Spirits require no life support, but humans and other earth bound creatures must breathe oxygen and drink water and eat food to sustain their lives.
“Spirit” (“pneuma”) according to Strongs means…..
”a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit. ”
So seeing how it is translated in other verses shows that this word has several meanings. It is used to describe the “breath of life” by which God made Adam a “soul”. All air breathers are called “souls” in Scripture.
Their eviction was from the garden of Eden which was on earth, planted by God and supplied with abundant food that required no labor on their part, but they were told to fill the earth with their children and to “subdue” the land outside the garden. This command was given before they sinned. Their eviction was justified because they had rejected the Creator as their Sovereign Ruler and chose to obey a different voice….one that implied that the Creator was holding something beneficial back, to which they had a right.
Death only came to the human race because God took away access to the only thing in the garden that could give them everlasting life. Tossing them out into the untamed world outside the garden meant a very different life to the one God originally offered them.
There were two trees in the garden that God drew to their attention…the TKGE and the “tree of life”. Partaking of one meant everlasting life…partaking of the other would incur death. They chose to disobey their God and not only brought death upon themselves, but upon all their offspring. (Gen 3:22-24; Rom 5:12)
This is the only reason why Jesus had to become a human and give his life in exchange for ours.
Do you understand the mechanics of redemption? It’s a simple exchange really. If someone were to pawn something to pay a debt, the only way to gain it back is to pay the price that was paid to you. If you cannot redeem the item by paying back the correct sum, the pawn broker can sell it to get his money back.
Men in Israel could serve a creditor by working for him until the debt was paid. If the man had a family to support, then a son or daughter could fill the position and work off the debt. Even a wealthy relative or friend could step in and pay the debt, freeing the man to return to his home debt free.
Jesus paid a debt that was incurred by Adam. He lost perfect, sinless life for all his children, so God sent his redeemer to pay the debt and set Adam’s children free of sin and death. Since sin is the cause of death, Jesus cancelled the debt completely by giving his sinless life for the one Adam lost for us.
Living forever on earth has nothing to do with physics…since God provided the means to sustain our lives indefinitely….we lost it, and Christ came to get it back for us…..
Sure you may ask, Gen 1-3 is one of the chapters I have read most, maybe 50+ times in my life and one day I just realized it, Eden (also called Paradise, Rev 2:17) is a supernatural place, 1) the Lord God walking in the cool of garden, 2) direct communication between God and mankind, 3) no death, death is an enemy, the last enemy, that will be done away, death never existed before A&E sinned, 4) the tree of life, back in Revelation in the new created supernatural New Heaven and the New Earth. All of those 4 points can not be on our natural world, the world A&E were expelled on, away from the presence of the Lord, away from the tree of life.
How do you square this with the casual scene when they ate thereof?
Would they behave that way if they understood what death was?
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Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
OK, so this is your personal take on Gen 1-3?
1) Gen 2: 4-9….
“This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven. Now no shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the Lord God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground. Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. But a mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground. The Lord God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed. Out of the ground the Lord God caused to grow every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.“ (NASB)
From that passage in Gen 2 how does it seem like A & E were created anywhere but planet Earth?
This is an earthly scene, with trees, plants and a mention of rain. The garden God planted was here on the earth that he had so lovingly prepared for the living creatures he designed to share life with us here. Among those creatures were serpents.
Assuming the form of a serpent or using one for his own deception somehow, satan planted seeds of his own in the mind of the woman….he cast doubt on God’s motives and painted him as a selfish parent, keeping things beneficial from his children.
Gen 3:1-7…
”Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Indeed, has God said, ‘You shall not eat from any tree of the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “From the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat; The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die! but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.’” For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings..
They heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden.” (NASB)
Again…all this is entirely earthly, not somewhere in heaven. The Earth itself is part of the physical heavens, but certainly not part of the spiritual heavens….so do you imagine that the Being who created the Universe could himself walk about on a tiny insignificant speck in that vast Universe? The Bible says that he has a vantage point in heaven that allows him to “look down” at what is happening here on the earth. He does not need to be physically present but can figuratively walk about by observing things that are taking place.
It says they “heard the sound” of God walking in the garden, not that they saw him.
Rev 2:7 mentions “the paradise of God“ where redeemed mankind will again have access to “the tree of life”.
again this is entirely earthly. A restoration of what they lost originally.
Being “mortal” didn’t mean that they had to die….only that they could if they disobeyed their Creator.
God provided the means to live forever, like he provided everything else.
There was no impediment of sin to interfere with direct communication with God, until Adam and his wife ate of the fruit. Only then was there a barrier between God and men, so that God set up a bridge or line of communication in the person of his “logos”, so that mankind could still communicate with God through a mediator. With his nation of Israel on earth, this was through Moses, later the Aaronic priesthood….and in the Christian Era, through the name of his son, Jesus Christ. Early servants of God had angelic communication. e.g. Abraham was visited by three angels in materialized form who delivered messages of Isaac’s birth and also travelled to Sodom to deliver Lot and his family from the city’s destruction. (Gen 18)
Yes, death was not to take God’s human creation as they alone were given access to “the tree of life”….this gave them superiority over other creatures because they were not given everlasting life. (Eccl 3:19-20) As mortal beings, animals were created to live in a cycle of life, but humans alone, “made in God’s image”, were to live forever, provided that they remained obedient to all that God commanded them. Sin then caused death, which made them like the animals. “A return to the dust” is what they could now expect.
Gen 3:22-24 reveals that they were responsible for losing everlasting life for themselves, being denied access to “the tree of life”……they and all their children, necessitating a redeemer. So unending life, to be enjoyed in mortal flesh, was their original condition. Hey lost that, but not forever…..all of this occurred on earth. The Bible itself does not say otherwise.
Why does “the new heavens and new earth” have to be supernatural? What is meant by those terms?
Since God created both realms in perfect condition originally, there is no need on God’s part to make new ones….he gave us an example of how he cleansed the earth in Noah’s day. He simply removed the wicked elements and started afresh with new stock, personally chosen by him to repopulate the earth.
When we realize that the “new heavens” is not a new Universe, but reference to his heavenly rulership (God’s Kingdom) and the “new earth” are the ones among mankind who are found worthy of everlasting life once God has again cleansed the earth of all wickedness and those who practice it, we get a different picture. This is tied in with Christ’s return. (Matt 24:37-39) God will again cleanse the earth of the unrighteous ones, so that those righteous in his eyes will get to enjoy the life God had planned for us all along. Christ came to buy back (redeem) what Adam lost for all his children. Heaven was never in man’s destiny originally…..but some were chosen to rule in heaven with Christ. They will rule over redeemed mankind on earth. (Rev 20:6)
It’s all very logical.
I hope you can see that all of that which is recorded in the Bible for us, paints a very different picture to the one you have imagined. You see, we cannot entertain our own beliefs separately from our brethren….all must believe one truth (1 Cor 1:10) or God could be accused of speaking with a forked tongue….we know that it’s the devil who does that. God does not teach confusion, but has but one truth, which satan has twisted and caused such incredible division among those who identify as “Christians”.
All we need to do is read what God’s word says and make sure that everything is in agreement, otherwise contradictions just continue to muddy the already dirty waters.
There are not many versions of the truth…..there can only be one, and only God can direct us to that truth. (John 6:44; 65)
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There was no animal death in Eden before the Fall and there won't be on the new earth.
Gen 1:29 And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food.
Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so.
No animal killing in God's original creation, fruits and verbs for every living creature. And so it will be on the new heaven and earth and the new Jerusalem, the city from the sky.
Isaiah on the New Heavens and a New Earth -
65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall graze together; the lion shall eat straw like the ox, and dust shall be the serpent's food. They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain,” says the LORD.
11:6 The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together; and a little child shall lead them.
There is no death in God's original creation.
1. Peter -
2Petr 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.
2Petr 3:11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,
2Petr 3:12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn!
2Petr 3:13 But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
The natural world will be destroyed, the spiritual world is to come.
2. Paul -
No more death - 1Cor 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
3. Revelation - about the new Jerusalem -
Rev 21:18 The wall was built of jasper, while the city was pure gold, like clear glass.
Rev 21:19 The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with every kind of jewel. The first was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald,
Rev 21:20 the fifth onyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, the twelfth amethyst.
Compare with Jer 28 and the fall of satan in the spiritual (supernatural) realm -
Ezech 28:13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle; and crafted in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared.
Read chapter 21 and 22, there is nothing natural, like God says -
Rev 21:5 And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.”
Please, don't do this, it takes the fun away of discussing.
Also, when something is new it doesn't automatically mean it is wrong, not after a discussion.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
I’m not sure that you mean “no death” at all because there is no mention of animals being granted everlasting life, only those made in God’s image and likeness were offered everlasting life…..the animals are not made that way. Originally as you mentioned, all creatures on earth were vegetarian, which means that no animals preyed on other animals. That will return to God’s original plan as well.
The cycle of life that animals experience is programmed by instinct, not intellect. Animal behavior is predictable because it’s the way they are made….they do not plan their lives but instinctively know when it’s time to eat, drink, sleep and procreate. Humans alone have a concept of past, present and future. They alone plan their lives…..plan their food….plan their constructions, plan their recreational activities…..animals don’t plan anything…they don’t have to….God planned it for them, and then programmed them to carry out his order.
Ask a squirrel why it gathers food for the winter…..or why birds migrate….
The natural material earth was intended to be our permanent home. The only cause of death was sin….so if Adam and his wife had refused the devil’s offer, they would not have experienced death or any evil thing. They would have filled the earth with perfect children and turned the whole planet into the garden of Eden.
The life we will have returned to us is described in Rev 21:2-4. This is talking about mankind on earth.
Adamic death is what is destroyed…the one we inherited through no fault on our part. Christ came to destroy that enemy and to restore what God first purposed for us…life without end in paradise, with enjoyable and rewarding work to do, and appreciation for all the beautiful things God made for our enjoyment here. Who would not want to live forever in that place.
Satan’s fall took place in the garden…he was the covering cherub in Eden…on duty as the guardian, he saw what was going on and began to envy the worship that these lower creatures could give to God…so he plotted to steal them away for himself.
After their eviction, a cherub was posted to guard the way to the tree of life, along with the flaming blade of a sword…..no sinful human was going to access that tree and steal it fruitage. God made sure of it. (Gen 3:22-24)
What is God making new?….the literal earth and universe?….or is he eliminating all wickedness and cleansing the earth like he did before (only not by a flood this time). The cleansing of the heavens has already taken place with Satan’s own eviction. (Rev 12:7-12) He and his wicked angels will never be allowed in heaven again, their confinement to this earth is the reason why everything is accelerating into extreme wickedness as these last days draw to a close….he knows his time is short…..and wants to take as many down with him into oblivion as he can deceive.
Jesus will resurrect the dead, calling them out of their graves to a new life, on a new earth, ruled over by the best government that humans have ever had!
Please don’t do what? Bible discussions are about the truth…we can’t water it down to make ourselves feel better. This is not for fun…lives are dependent on knowing the truth…..sorry if that causes offense to you, it was not intended.
I only skimmed the discussion so I’m not sure what all was mentioned. For me this is how I interpret it.
First Genesis 1-11 has all the markers of being myths. They are not real people but characters. There has never been just 2 species in our genus. It may be a complete myth, or it could be a story that is highly mythicized that was about 2 people that God called from among the many to a promised land.
But it seems the entire thing is fictional and is symbolic for Israel by remaining the story of Gilgamesh, or they both are remaining an older source.
Eden was not a spiritual place as in another realm. It’s portrayed as a place where heaven and earth overlap. I highly suggest looking at the work by Tim Mackie on this. It’s symbolic for the temple, and how Eden use to be an entire temple and it was mankind’s job to grow this temple across the whole world.
Adam and Eve were not immortal. As mentioned only God is, not even the angels are immortal. Angels and humans can’t live forever, unless they are given life by god.
In Hebrew it says, they die die, which is often understood to mean they die by dying, meaning since they are not immortal, and they are cut off from the tree of life, they will begin to die. They will begin to die physically and spiritually as the wages of sin further and further divided them from the holy one.
First Genesis 1-11 has all the markers of being myths. They are not real people but characters. There has never been just 2 species in our genus. It may be a complete myth, or it could be a story that is highly mythicized that was about 2 people that God called from among the many to a promised land.
But it seems the entire thing is fictional and is symbolic for Israel by remaining the story of Gilgamesh, or they both are remaining an older source.
Eden was not a spiritual place as in another realm. It’s portrayed as a place where heaven and earth overlap. I highly suggest looking at the work by Tim Mackie on this. It’s symbolic for the temple, and how Eden use to be an entire temple and it was mankind’s job to grow this temple across the whole world.
Adam and Eve were not immortal. As mentioned only God is, not even the angels are immortal. Angels and humans can’t live forever, unless they are given life by god.
In Hebrew it says, they die die, which is often understood to mean they die by dying, meaning since they are not immortal, and they are cut off from the tree of life, they will begin to die. They will begin to die physically and spiritually as the wages of sin further and further divided them from the holy one.
Well then, it comes down you believe there was death in Eden, that the Lord God created all the animals to die. I don't believe God is the creator of death.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
If you observe the animal kingdom, death is part of the life cycle for them. They don’t bury their dead nor do they hold rituals for them......and fighting instinct is the only thing seen when troupe animals lose a member.
Animals are capable of warm affection and attachment, but they have no concept of the future, which means that they do not fear death because they cannot contemplate it. They live by instinct, God’s programming. They can experience loss to some extent, but they do not fight death like humans do...ask any vet if animals cling tenaciously to life, like we do? They give up very quickly.
We are the only species who can contemplate our own death.....because we have no program for it, we fear it because of its present inescapability. We are not created to die, so it feels wrong even though humans have been dying since Abel was murdered by his brother. We still fear it and see the ravages of aging as an affront. The young person inside has difficulty coming to terms with the old person on the outside. It was never meant to happen. Only human life was to last forever because of the assignment that God gave us.
We are here for a reason...what do you think it is?
In the animal kingdom life is perpetuated by the cycle of reproduction.....if no creature died, what do you think would happen to the balance of life on planet earth? There would be no room for humans.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
There is another point of revelation in the Genesis 2:17 verse, saying "in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."
That point of revelation is made by God equating a day with ones entire lifetime--just as we ourselves often do referring to, say, "back in our grandfathers day", but meaning in his whole lifetime.
If equal, then, yes, "in that day" (meaning this lifetime) we surely do die.
I get your point of dying spiritually with regard to Adam and Eve, but then regarding we who follow--we did not eat of the tree of the knowledge of God and evil, we were simply born into a similar day that ends in death. Or as Paul referred to each our lives and times, said: "but each one (individual person) in his own order" (1 Corinthians 15:23).
Actually many animals do bury their dead and many do in fact have rituals for them including visiting the graves and mourning years later. Such as with elephants.
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