Why Does the Savior Need to Be Both God and Man?

[Taken]

Why Does the Savior Need to Be Both God and Man?​

Because:

The World of Heaven, ONE KINGDOM, THRONE, is RULED by A SPIRIT Ruler, Governor, Sovereign KING, called God.
And “THE Subordinates / THE Subjects / THE Ruled”….ARE “spirits”.

The World of Earth, Has Numerous KINGDOMS, Thrones, Rulers, Governors, kings, called Human Men….Whose authority is supreme over its, subjects, citizens.

Anciently…God Established…ONE “Everlasting” Throne “ON EARTH”…And APPOINTED ONE Living human man to OCCUPY THAT Throne…

1 Samuel
2 Samuel
1 Kings
2 Kings
1 Chronicles
2 Chronicles

Reveals Gods Establishment of An Everlasting Throne.
WHERE precisely Is the Kingdom.
WHERE precisely Is the seat of Governance, WHO precisely was First Seated in the throne
WHO are the Subjects OF that seated King.
WHO are the descending Generational Kings to Be.
WHO is the Supreme, Power, Authority, Governor, KING Over that Earthly everlasting Throne and Kingdom.

By Gods Design…The Ruling Power and Authority ON Earth HAD to BE…
A Visible “MAN” LAWFULLY descended “OF” the House of King David…Thus BEING…
“Lawfully”…ENTITLED;
* To Be seated on King David’s Throne
* And Lawful Heir To Abraham’s Promised Land “ie KINGDOM.”

Gods BIG PICTURE…INTENT…AGENDA…
IS;
* To CEASE the existance of MORTAL human men, presently All Subject to bodily Death.
* To Offer ALL mortal human MEN, an OPTION, of a RE/MAKING of their mortal body, TO be never again subject To Death.
* To Freely by every mans WILL, Election, choice to Accept OR Reject Gods Offering.
* To OPEN the Barrier, between Two Worlds;
Heaven AND Earth…to BECOME citizens of “ONE KINGDOM”…Subjects OF ONE Mighty Ruling KING.

Step by step, little by little…God Tells, God Teaches, God Reveals…His Intent, His Offerings, His Options, His Order, His Way…

And Human manKIND can TRY (taste), spit out, KEEP (eat), REJECT Gods Offerings and Promised Results…

Men ARE stubborn and quickly Reject that which they CAN NOT SEE or UNDERSTAND.

God…in His Grace and WISDOM…Promised…then gave men “Something” they Could “SEE”…which…God having Purposed in Human men for 4,000 years to Teach other Human men….(failure on humans part…)
* God PURPOSED in HIMSELF… to take upon Himself the LIKENESS “AS” a Human man, For Human men TO SEE and HEAR His Truth and SEE His Example….and?
Some Trust Gods Words…some do not…
Human FREEWILL…and the consequences, fully revealed for a mans choice.

Eph 1:

1. • [9] Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself

And…so stands this World…Divided…
Believers…Unbelievers Divided.
They with the Truth…They without the Truth, Divided.
They Believing With Understanding…They Believing WithOUT Understanding…Divided.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Jack]

"Why Does the Savior Need to Be Both God and Man?"

He doesn't 'need' to be, but the Bible clearly declares Jesus to be God the Creator and man.

 

[Wrangler]

"Why Does the Savior Need to Be Both God and Man?"

He doesn't 'need' to be, but the Bible clearly declares Jesus to be God the Creator and man.

1st time Scripture was invoked in this thread. Oddly, Scripture does not state what you claim - unless you rely on a bad translation.

2nd, OTOH, the Bible repeatedly and clearly declares there is only one God, the Father. So, rather than the topic assume a conclusion, imagine questioning the premise?

3rd, the rationalization for why he has to be God is based on taking a figurative idea as literally the case. For instance, Eve might be called the mother of us all. However, this is understood to not be literally true.

 

[Taken]

Why Does the Savior Need to Be Both God and Man?​

Inanutshell …
Establish Lawful Authority to Rule over Heaven AND Earth AND all its inhabitants.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Rich R]

Scripture says all have sinned, means all mankind and there is none righteous, no not one.
Christ then has to be more than man, must also be God as Christ was without sin.

Jesus was certainly not a "mere" man. Actually according to Ps 8:4-5, there is no such thing a "mere" man, but that's another story.

Adam was created perfect. But he had free will. He could have obeyed God, but he didn't. The point is, a man has the potential to live a perfect life. Genesis 1 says a few times that seed produces offspring with the same nature as the parent. Since Adam failed, all his seed (his descendants) shared in the sin nature.

But Jesus was not born of the Adam's seed. He was conceived in Mary's womb by holy spirit. He, like the first Adam was created without sin. But also, like the first Adam, Jesus had free will. That is precisely why he was tempted in all points just the like rest of us. Do you have any consciousness that you are God when tempted? Well, Jesus was tempted just like you. He didn't think he was God any more than you think you are God. Jesus having free will could have gone the same route as the first Adam. Jesus didn't sin because he was God. He didn't sin because, unlike all other men that ever lived, he always obeyed God. It's a huge difference.

I can't imagine what was going through his mind in the garden of Gethsemane when he asked his Father if there wasn't some other to redeem us. He asked 3 times and God gave the same answer 3 times; "nope, you have to be crucified." Jesus answered, "not my will, but yours be done." God had a will and Jesus had a different will. Nonetheless, Jesus didn't follow his will (the mistake of the first Adam), but he followed God's will instead.

This then is the the truest love a man can have. Jesus was a man. He was a man who loved people he never even met so much that he willingly allowed himself to be tortured and crucified. I ask you, what would be greater: God (who could not sin nor be tempted in the first place) to obey Himself, or a man with like passions as the rest of us to voluntarily live a perfect life and then allow himself to suffer the death he endured? No, Jesus was certainly not a "mere" man, but he was a man. He was the greatest man, the most loving man, that ever lived. He is our savior. The Bible calls him a man at least a half dozen times. Not once does it call him a God (Yahweh to be more precise). The doctrine that says he is God must be "derived" from the scriptures. It is nowhere plainly stated as it plainly states he was a man. But then many people have "derived" many heresies form the Bible throughout history. Accept the simple words of the Bible for what they plainly say and it's a much better story.

Rom 5:15,

But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.​

Acts 2:22,

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:​

Acts 17:31,

Because he (God) hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by [that] man (Jesus) whom he hath ordained; [whereof] he hath given assurance unto all [men], in that he hath raised him from the dead.​

1 Tim 2:5,

For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;​

John 4:29,

Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?​

(Israel was looking for a man to redeem them. Nowhere is there a hint they were looking for a god-man.)

John 8:40,

But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.​

1 Cor 15:21,

For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.​

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1 Cor 15:21 does not say that only God could redeem man. Quite to the contrary, it clearly says that our future resurrection is because of the man Christ Jesus. The only question is whether to believe tradition or the truth.

 

[Wrangler]

Why Does the Savior Need to Be Both God and Man?

In short, the implied premise of your question is wrong. Scripture teaches repeatedly and explicitly that Jesus is a man AND that there is only one God, the Father.

So, where does that leave us? Needing to understand agency and substitutionary punishment making up this dynamic duo.

Regarding agency, if you are drowning in the ocean and a captain orders his ship to your location and an ensign is the one to literally pull you from the water, who is your savior, the captain or the ensign?

 

[Origen]

Why Does the Savior Need to Be Both God and Man?​

Some will say of Jesus that as God He could overcome the need to take flesh in a woman's womb. He could do all, it's true. But reflect on the law of order and goodness which lies in His annihilation in mortal clothing.

The sin committed by man had to be expiated by man and not by the non-incarnate divinity. How could the Divinity, incorporeal Spirit, redeem the sins of the flesh with the sacrifice of Itself? That is why it was, then, necessary that He, God, should pay for the sins of flesh and blood with the agony of an innocent Flesh and Blood, born of an innocent Woman.

His mind, His feeling, and His spirit would have suffered for our sins in mind, feeling, and spirit. But to be the Redemption of all forms of concupiscence inoculated into Adam and his descendants by the Tempter, the One Immolated for them all had to be endowed with a nature like ours, made worthy of being given as a ransom to God by the Divinity hidden in it, like a gem of infinite supernatural value hidden under common, natural clothing.

He had not only to cancel sin from the moment it occurred until the moment of the sacrifice and annul in those to come the effects of sin by having them be born unaware of evil. No. With a total sacrifice He had to make reparation for Sin and the sins of all mankind, give the men already dead absolution of sin, and give those living at that time and in the future the means to be helped to resist evil, and to be forgiven for the evil which their weakness would lead them to do.

His sacrifice thus had to be such as to present all the necessary requisites, and it could be such only in a God made man: a host worthy of God, a means understood by man. In addition, He came to bring the Law.

If His Humanity had not existed, how could we—His poor brothers and sisters, who labor to have faith in Him, Who lived for thirty-three years on the earth, a Man among men—have believed? And how could He appear, already an adult, to hostile or ignorant peoples, making them convinced of His nature and His doctrine? He would then have appeared, in the eyes of the world, as a spirit Who had taken on a human likeness, but not as a man Who was born and died, shedding real Blood through the wounds of a real flesh as proof of being a man—and rose again and ascended to Heaven with His glorified body—as proof of being God returning to His eternal dwelling.

Isn't it sweeter for us to think that He is really our Brother, with the destiny of creatures who are born, live, suffer, and die, than to conceive of Him as a spirit superior to the exigencies of humanity?

It was necessary, then, for a woman to give birth to Him according to the flesh, after having conceived Him above the flesh, for from no marriage of creatures, no matter how holy they were, could the God-Man be conceived, but only from a wedding of Purity and Love, the Spirit and the Virgin, created without stain so as to be the matrix for the flesh of a God, the Virgin the Thought of Whom was God's joy, since before time existed, the Virgin in Whom there is a compendium of the Father's creative perfection, the joy of Heaven, the salvation of the Earth, the most beautiful flower of Creation of all the flowers of the Universe, a living star before whom all the suns created by His Father seem dull. (N43)

 

[Rich R]

The idea of the Trinity argues that Jesus must be both God and man to be our Savior. If he were just a human, they ask, how could he bear the sins of everyone? It seems fitting to make grand statements about Jesus. Often, we struggle to honor our Savior enough for his immense sacrifice, so why not express our admiration fully? This is partly how the concept of the Trinity emerged, responding to views that Jesus was simply a man. As people defended our Savior, their claims grew bolder, evolving from him being a perfect man and Son of God to ultimately declaring him as God himself. This led to extreme reactions against anyone who suggested Jesus was anything less than divine. History shows that John Calvin executed Michael Servetus for denying the Trinity. As the flames were lit, Servetus called out, “Oh thou Son of the eternal God, have pity on me.” One witness remarked that they might have felt sympathy if he had said, “Oh Eternal Son of God.” Why does church history often lack compassion and kindness? “By this shall all men know ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another” (John 13:35). If only God’s followers had shown as much dedication to their faith as they did to their church institutions, church history would be much more compassionate. In a church focused on dominating the world, love and kindness are often missing.

An often used argument for saying only God could redeem mankind is that "a mere human" could not do the job. But that argument is disingenuous. The choice is supposedly that either Jesus is God or he is a "mere human." But are there only two options from which to choose? No other options? How about another option that says Jesus was a man who, although tempted just like the rest of us, never once in his entire life disobeyed God?

There is no such thing as a "mere human." There is noting wrong about being a human. Everything God has done from the day He created Adam is for the benefit of humans. Caring for humans is basically His sole reason to live. I doubt very greatly that He thinks of us a "mere humans."

Ps 8:4-8,

4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?​

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5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.​

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6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all [things] under his feet:​

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7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field;​

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8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, [and whatsoever] passeth through the paths of the seas.​

Doesn't look like God thinks we are "mere humans."

BTW, the word "angels" in verse 5 is "elohim", the Hebrew word for "god." That raises the question of exactly what the word "god" meant to the people to whom God wrote. We dare not read our worldview into the message of the original author. It behooves us to understand the way they used words and avoid reading our modern Western ideas into the text.

The first definition in Strong's Concordance for "elehim" is "supreme ones." That is how any Jew of the first century would have understood Thomas saying, "my lord and my god" in John 20:28. I would think it appropriate at that time (after being raised from among the dead) to think of Jesus as a "supreme one." But a "mere human?" I don't think so! Nor do I think Thomas would have thought he was talking to Yahweh.

In the cultural river of the Ancient Near East there were many gods, many "supreme ones."

1 Cor 8:5,

For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)​

Rom 5:15,

But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.​

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Nothing there about a "God part" and a "man part." It just calls him a man. Apparently a man of the caliber of Jesus was sufficient to redeem us. Nothing there saying only God could redeem us. Actually, there's nothing anywhere in the entire book that indicates only God could redeem us.