It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[Davidpt]

I remember you well as divaD. You and he and David Taylor were always in a rumble...lol

I think I got along way better with David Taylor than I did @WPM, though.

 

[amigo de christo]

Weak response from you, as usual. You didn't address anything I said. Because you can't.

As for the Jews, there have been plenty who were regrafted in for the past almost 2,000 years, including some in Paul's day. That's why he said in Romans 11:11-14 that he hoped to help save some of those who had been blinded in his day. And I'm sure he did. But, you completely ignore that and postpone the salvation of the Jews for at least 2,000 years or so despite a good number of Jews being saved during that time.

To the trenches my friend . To the trenches .

 

[WPM]

Nothing bizarre about it. You just don't understand that some of us have a history with each other that goes way back. I don't think any of us hate each other though it is possible that @WPM might hate me. I don't think he's ever had anything good to say about me. But it is what it is, I guess.

I do not hate you. I am sorry you think that, I have never said that.

I consider you to be a brother.

 

[WPM]

Wow...WPM is like the energizer bunny of false eschatology. All of these years and he is still rambling on about the same old topic. He is still using the same old arguments that were destroyed on bibleforums.org back when it was active Hi @WPM boxing

Not true! You never had a refutation for Amil! Insults and misrepresentation is all you had.

It seems like nothing has changed.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Wow...WPM is like the energizer bunny of false eschatology. All of these years and he is still rambling on about the same old topic. He is still using the same old arguments that were destroyed on bibleforums.org back when it was active Hi @WPM boxing

You are delusional. Those arguments destroyed Premill, not the other way around. And they still do today.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I remember those days back then on bibleforums.org. He had some issues with me back then and I with him. And it still continues to this day. I went by the username divaD at the time, David spelled backwards. I guess because the username David was already taken by someone else at the time.

I always prounounced your name in my mind as Diva D.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Not true! You never had a refutation for Amil! Insults and misrepresentation is all you had.

That means he will fit in well with the other Premills here.

It seems like nothing has changed.

He comes out of nowhere to post on here and the reason seems to be just to show that he hasn't changed at all.

 

[WPM]

You are delusional. Those arguments destroyed Premill, not the other way around. And they still do today.

Talk about rewriting history! Premil got demolished. There was no rebuttal there, and none here.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Talk about rewriting history! Premil got demolished. There was no rebuttal there, and none here.

Right. It was obliterated there just like it has been here. It's hard to fathom someone thinking it was the other way around.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Talk about rewriting history! Premil got demolished. There was no rebuttal there, and none here.

In all my years. premil has never been demolished by anyone.

Certainly has not even in this thread. although I think @Scott Downey thinks he has

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

In all my years. premil has never been demolished by anyone.

You're not paying attention then.

Certainly has not even in this thread. although I think @Scott Downey thinks he has

It gets demolished in every thread involving the Amil vs. Premil debate. The way Premils twist scripture to make it say what they want it to say gets exposed in all of those threads and their weak arguments against Amil get exposed as well.

 

[WPM]

In all my years. premil has never been demolished by anyone.

Certainly has not even in this thread. although I think @Scott Downey thinks he has

Do you believe in biblical corroboration?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Do you believe in biblical corroboration?

That one aspec ot scripture must agree with another?

Yes.

that's another proof that Amill is not from God.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

To the trenches my friend . To the trenches .

You going out to dig some ditches?

 

[Davy]

It gets demolished in every thread involving the Amil vs. Premil debate. The way Premils twist scripture to make it say what they want it to say gets exposed in all of those threads and their weak arguments against Amil get exposed as well.

That false statement strategy is exactly... the kind of lying strategy that Communism uses to fool the gullible with.

Was it Hitler, or Stalin, that said that if you tell a lie big enough, and often enough, people will believe it?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That false statement strategy is exactly... the kind of lying strategy that Communism uses to fool the gullible with.

LOL at comparing the Amil vs. Premil debate to Communism. You are out of your mind.

 

[WPM]

Op Note

Most of us know that there is no rebuttal to the truth of God. That is why Pretribbers have no answer to the Op. It is near impossible to get them to address a text, exegete a text, and flesh out a text. That is because no Scripture supports their error. It forbids Pretrib. The Bible depicts the coming of Christ as climactic. It is the end!

All they can do is duck and dive around the inspired pages and blatant truth. We have had another month of avoidance, another month of personal attacks on Posttribbers. That is all they have. The reader can go back and observe the continuous avoidance of all the multiple holes in the Pretrib theory on this thread. They can also note the extensive unaddressed detailed biblical posts of Posttribbers.

The reality is: Pretrib is dead. It is time to give it a decent burial.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings WPM,

The reality is: Pretrib is dead. It is time to give it a decent burial.

I decided to read the first page of this extremely long running thread, but as there are 113 pages I hesitated of trying to find a definitive answer to my main Scriptural support of the various verses that I consider teach the Millennium and that there will be tribulation before this is fully established. I could quote these one at a time, but if these have been clearly discussed before, perhaps you could reference the Reply Number. As a sample I will quote an important reference, the first major vision of the writing prophets, and to me this sums up the complete subject. All other OT prophecies expand on this in detail.

Isaiah 2:1-4 (KJV): 1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

I consider that my belief in this vision and its detail is very much alive despite your confident claim.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Scott Downey]

Greetings WPM,

I decided to read the first page of this extremely long running thread, but as there are 113 pages I hesitated of trying to find a definitive answer to my main Scriptural support of the various verses that I consider teach the Millennium and that there will be tribulation before this is fully established. I could quote these one at a time, but if these have been clearly discussed before, perhaps you could reference the Reply Number. As a sample I will quote an important reference, the first major vision of the writing prophets, and to me this sums up the complete subject. All other OT prophecies expand on this in detail.

Isaiah 2:1-4 (KJV): 1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

I consider that my belief in this vision and its detail is very much alive despite your confident claim.

Kind regards
Trevor

Did you forget about the New earth God will make for us?
The nations still exist, as do kings on the new earth
There is the New Jerusalem, and the Lord God will be there with His people, and people will come and go from the city.

AND, why have healing of the nations on the new earth?

Revelation 21

The Glory of the New Jerusalem​

22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine [l]in it, for the [m]glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. 24 And the nations [n]of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor [o]into it. 25 Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26 And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into [p]it. 27 But there shall by no means enter it anything [q]that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.

Revelation 22

And he showed me a [a]pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. 4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. 5 There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.

The Time Is Near​

6 Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true.” And the Lord God of the [b]holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must shortly take place.

7 “Behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”

8 Now I, John, [c]saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things.

9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. [d]For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.” 10 And he said to me, “Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand. 11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him [e]be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”

Jesus Testifies to the Churches​

12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the [f]Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

14 Blessed are those who [g]do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 [h]But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”

17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


14 Blessed are those who [g]do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

15 [h]But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

The ones outside the city, includes the ones who are in the Lake of Fire.
It says we will see them in that place as we go forth from the Lord and look.

Isaiah 66


22 “For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

24 “And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

 

[Scott Downey]

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 66 - Amplified Bible

Heaven Is God’s Throne - This is what the LORD says, “Heaven is My throne and the earth is My footstool. Where, then, is a house that you could build for Me? And where will My resting place be? “For all these things My hand has made, So all these things came into being [by and for Me],” declares...

www.biblegateway.com

22
“For just as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I make will remain and endure before Me,” declares the Lord,
“So your offspring and your name will remain and endure.
23
“And it shall be that from New Moon to New Moon
And from Sabbath to Sabbath,
All mankind will come to bow down and worship before Me,” says the Lord.
24
“Then they will go forth and look
Upon the dead bodies of the [rebellious] men
Who have transgressed against Me;
For their worm (maggot) will not die,
And their fire will not go out;
And they will be an abhorrence to all mankind.”