The view of the "Gentleman God" who honors human will above His own.

[St. SteVen]

Question: Is the will of God subordinate to the will of humankind?

Interesting that those who claim that God is a gentleman, also believe that
He will incinerate those who do not receive the free gift of salvation. What is gentle about that?

To be clear, I still believe that every knee will bow and every tongue acknowledge that Christ is Lord.
But those who believe in the "Gentleman God" claim the confession is forced. What is gentle about that?

[

 

[Behold]

Question: Is the will of God subordinate to the will of humankind?

no

Interesting that those who claim that God is a gentleman, also believe that
He will incinerate those who do not receive the free gift of salvation. What is gentle about that?

Hell is not a place of "incineration'... its actually created for the devil and his angels........and because of Adam'a Fall, humanity became related to the devil, spiritually, which is why Jesus told all unbelievers that "You are of YOUR Father... the Devil".

So, the reason that Jesus said that we "must be born again".... is because this is how we change spiritual fathers.... whereby God becomes our Heavenly Father.
And that means that if a person is not born again, then they die as a child of the devil, and go to the place that was prepared for their spiritual father, (Hell)............while the CHRISTians, go to our Father, in Heaven.

"Universalism" is the Satanic teaching that leads people to Hell by teaching them that they dont need the new birth, as they are already accepted by God.

To be clear, I still believe that every knee will bow and every tongue acknowledge that Christ is Lord.

It will happen.

But those who believe in the "Gentleman God" claim the confession is forced. What is gentle about that?

A Real Christian, wants to kneel before God and Christ in reverence and awe, while a child of the devil, wouldnt, and would complain about it.

 

[Wick Stick]

Question: Is the will of God subordinate to the will of humankind?

I think it's a question of collective purpose versus individual.

An individual can prioritize their individual goals over that of the group, certainly. It turns out that isn't best for the group OR the individual, but it happens often enough.

 

[GeneZ]

"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness,
but is longsuffering toward [a]us, not willing that any should perish
but that all should come to repentance." - 2 Peter 3:9 NKJV

In regards to "free-will", I have often heard the argument that God, being the gentleman that he is,
would never VIOLATE our "free-will" by forcing us to believe in Him.

"and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—" 2 Peter 3:15 NKJV

The Lord is patient (longsuffering) toward us. His patience (longsuffering) is salvation.

Question: Is the will of God subordinate to the will of humankind?

Interesting that those who claim that God is a gentleman, also believe that
He will incinerate those who do not receive the free gift of salvation. What is gentle about that?

To be clear, I still believe that every knee will bow and every tongue acknowledge that Christ is Lord.
But those who believe in the "Gentleman God" claim the confession is forced. What is gentle about that?

Here's my position on that.

Anyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth
and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation,
acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved. Christ died and
returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
(the reason for the bodily resurrection) Scriptural support below.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,”
and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about")
– properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"),
without reservation (no holding back).

Further reading: Isaiah 45:23; Romans 14:11; Revelation 15:4

How could God truly create man in His Image?
If God did not establish in man an area of volitional sovereignty that no one but himself can change?

To truly create man in God's Image, it was established that man's volition must be what that man determines it to be.

God can reason with man's volition.
Try to convince man's volition.
But God must never nullify man's volition.

For man's volition must last forever, just as God is forever sovereign.

Ultimately... It was God's sovereign choice to give man that power of having his own sovereignty.

And, on the positive side.

Man having been created with sovereign volition?
Makes man living with God forever, a beautiful match "made in Heaven."

grace and peace .............

 

[St. SteVen]

I think it's a question of collective purpose versus individual.

An individual can prioritize their individual goals over that of the group, certainly. It turns out that isn't best for the group OR the individual, but it happens often enough.

Do you think God has the same expectations for each individual?
To which all members of the group are to be in lock-step?

[

 

[St. SteVen]

God can reason with man's volition.
Try to convince man's volition.
But God must never nullify man's volition.

What if God is not willing that any should perish?
Can humankind overrule His will?

[

 

[Toro55]

Revelation shows us the path that humanity will choose is that how God wants it to go?It appears to be freewill.God does not incinerate anyone everyone is already damned according to the bible God is offering you a way out in Christ.But few believe that anymore Genesis is just nice allegoric stories to some now.Jesus is saving you from damnation because of what happened and you can ignore it if you choose - his hand is reaching out for you take it there is no one else.

Humanity had damnation put upon it by the fallen Angels according to the bible when Satan tempted Eve.Before Christ all there was is death and hell for humanity.Its what the bible says.

But no one want to talk of the fall of humanity and damnation put upon it or why and how it happened - it allegory right?

There is a third player in this named Satan and his fallen Angels who are always forgotten and they do not want one soul entering into heaven its what the war is about its why they did what they did and will continue to do.The absolutely hate us and the idea of even one human soul entering heaven and the presence of God is intolerable to them to the point they have been damned themselves and become evil.That is how much they hate us and how far they are willing to go.
But no one wants to believe that either - Satan the accuser of our brethren who lamented day and night to God how unworthy we were of eternal life. He was vanquished from heaven forever when Christ entered heaven and can no longer lament to God.He lost his bid but hasn't given up.

There is a deeper explanation but it gets ignored as if it never happened.

 

[rockytopva]

And the Lord's Prayer begins... Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. - Luke 11:2

Thy will be done... Not... Our will be done. Dealing with self-willed people can be a terrible thing!

 

[soberxp]

Are demons the enemies of Jesus?



If so...



What did Jesus teach us to do to our enemies?




Jesus taught us to love our enemies.




Is Jesus a hypocrite?

Romans 12:20
Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.

Proverbs.
25:21 If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink:
25:22 For thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head, and the LORD shall reward thee.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness,
but is longsuffering toward [a]us, not willing that any should perish
but that all should come to repentance." - 2 Peter 3:9 NKJV

In regards to "free-will", I have often heard the argument that God, being the gentleman that he is,
would never VIOLATE our "free-will" by forcing us to believe in Him.

"and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—" 2 Peter 3:15 NKJV

The Lord is patient (longsuffering) toward us. His patience (longsuffering) is salvation.

Question: Is the will of God subordinate to the will of humankind?

Interesting that those who claim that God is a gentleman, also believe that
He will incinerate those who do not receive the free gift of salvation. What is gentle about that?

To be clear, I still believe that every knee will bow and every tongue acknowledge that Christ is Lord.
But those who believe in the "Gentleman God" claim the confession is forced. What is gentle about that?

Here's my position on that.

Anyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth
and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation,
acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved. Christ died and
returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
(the reason for the bodily resurrection) Scriptural support below.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,”
and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about")
– properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"),
without reservation (no holding back).

Further reading: Isaiah 45:23; Romans 14:11; Revelation 15:4

You imply universalism which is not true.

Unsaved man has no free will to choose God. it is antithetical to the human nature.

The unsaved will acknowledge Jesus is Lord by the Holy Spirit- by being forced to, prior to being cast into the Lake of ffire.

 

[Wick Stick]

Do you think God has the same expectations for each individual?
To which all members of the group are to be in lock-step?

[

Yes and no. There's a set of generic expectations and then there are specific ones.

We're all meant to love our neighbor, but we aren't all meant to go preach in Damascus.

 

[GeneZ]

What if God is not willing that any should perish?
Can humankind overrule His will?

But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, ​

and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some ​

understand slowness. Instead, he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but ​

everyone to come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:8-9​

God is not willing that any He knows will believe to perish.
Men were wanting God to speed things up and get over with it!
God was taking His time to make sure all who will believe will live to be saved!

Now?

May I ask? What does sovereignty mean to you?

Sovereign God created man in His image.
In doing so, He gave man an element of having his own sovereignty as to be in His image.

Now, if God could override man's volition?
God would have created NOTHING.
No real life....
We would all become play dolls.

God wanted to create real lives.
The price in doing that is to have some freely able choosing to reject Him.

If you think about it?
When creating a life that could think for itself and determine for one self?
God created a miracle!

God created a miracle when He created real lives.

 

[St. SteVen]

Now, if God could override man's volition?
God would have created NOTHING.
No real life....
We would all become play dolls.

I don't mean in every situation, but as it relates to salvation.
Jesus taught us to love our enemies. What should he do with His own?

[

 

[St. SteVen]

"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness,
but is longsuffering toward [a]us, not willing that any should perish
but that all should come to repentance." - 2 Peter 3:9 NKJV

In regards to "free-will", I have often heard the argument that God, being the gentleman that he is,
would never VIOLATE our "free-will" by forcing us to believe in Him.

"and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—" 2 Peter 3:15 NKJV

The Lord is patient (longsuffering) toward us. His patience (longsuffering) is salvation.

Question: Is the will of God subordinate to the will of humankind?

Interesting that those who claim that God is a gentleman, also believe that
He will incinerate those who do not receive the free gift of salvation. What is gentle about that?

To be clear, I still believe that every knee will bow and every tongue acknowledge that Christ is Lord.
But those who believe in the "Gentleman God" claim the confession is forced. What is gentle about that?

[

 

[soberxp]

"The Lord fromot slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness,
but is longsuffering toward [a]us, not willing that any should perish
but that all should come to repentance." - 2 Peter 3:9 NKJV

In regards to "free-will", I have often heard the argument that God, being the gentleman that he is,
would never VIOLATE our "free-will" by forcing us to believe in Him.

"and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—" 2 Peter 3:15 NKJV

The Lord is patient (longsuffering) toward us. His patience (longsuffering) is salvation.

Question: Is the will of God subordinate to the will of humankind?

First, we should know where is our free Will come from, we have free Will of good and evil,
Our free Will comes from not only the mind, also from the knowledge, the knowledge of good and evil,
When our will of good, so the will of God subordinate to the will of humankind.

Otherwise, it is not.

Interesting that those who claim that God is a gentleman, also believe that
He will incinerate those who do not receive the free gift of salvation. What is gentle about that?

To be clear, I still believe that every knee will bow and every tongue acknowledge that Christ is Lord.
But those who believe in the "Gentleman God" claim the confession is forced. What is gentle about that?

What is gentle about that?

Saved the life more than anything else, even it is forced.as the Bible says, 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

I also believe that every knee will bow and every tongue acknowledge that Christ is Lord.
But in fact, God's request is not difficult, in my opinion, God's request for the conditions of life is not harsh, it is difficult to understand that someone really can not do it?
repentance.

 

[Lambano]

What is the Human responsibility in the God-Man relationship?

 

[St. SteVen]

First, we should know where is our free Will come from, we have free Will of good and evil,
Our free Will comes from not only the mind, also from the knowledge, the knowledge of good and evil,
When our will of good, so the will of God subordinate to the will of humankind.

I find it interesting that our God-given human conscience is the knowledge of (discernment between) good and evil.
When did we receive our God-given human conscience?

[

 

[St. SteVen]

What is the Human responsibility in the God-Man relationship?

That's a great question.
I think it helps to view this in terms of a parent/child relationship.
(I know that some prefer to say that only believers are God's children)

What happens when a toddler screams at her father that she hates him and will never talk to him again?
Does that father honor the toddlers will and put her out on the street?

[

 

[soberxp]

I find it interesting that our God-given human conscience is the knowledge of (discernment between) good and evil.
When did we receive our God-given human conscience?

[

1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:



2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

 

[soberxp]

What is the Human responsibility in the God-Man relationship?

"Human responsibility in divine relationship encompasses:

1. Cognitive Duty (Acknowledging God)
2. Affective Duty (Loving God)
3. Volitional Duty (Obeying God)
4. Relational Duty (Loving neighbor as self).

'These responsibilities are the fruits of grace, never its root.'"

Key Theological Terms:​

• → Cognitive Duty (Romans 1:20-21)
• → Affective Duty (Deuteronomy 6:5 - "heart/soul" love)
• → Volitional Duty (John 14:15 - "If you love me, keep my commands")
• → Relational Duty (Matthew 22:39 - second greatest commandment)