IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

[rebuilder 454]

No, what you’re doing is not “showing what Jesus said.” You’re butchering what Jesus said, stapling Scofield’s fantasy timeline to the side of it, and pretending that your cut-and-paste theology somehow qualifies as divine revelation.

Let’s stop pretending you’re quoting Jesus. You’re quoting your misreading of Jesus, filtered through a Darby lens, wrapped in Zionist propaganda, footnoted by Scofield, and regurgitated by a generation of prophecy grifters who never learned how to actually read the Bible — they just memorized charts and repeated slogans.

You keep yelling "Jesus said before the flood!" as if that's a timeline for a pre-trib rapture. But it’s not. It’s literally just a setting. The people were living normal lives before the flood, oblivious to what was coming. That’s the warning — not a timestamp for evacuation. It’s about sudden judgment, not escape.

And your line — “so sorry to see there was no wicked that perished before the flood” — is so embarrassingly off-base it’s almost not worth responding to. That’s the entire point of the flood. It was a worldwide purge of the wicked. Jesus says the flood came and took them all away — then says His coming will be just like that. That’s not salvation. That’s damnation.

You keep trying to make “taken” a good thing, but the context crushes you every time. The flood took the wicked. Noah was left behind, preserved through judgment. That’s what Jesus is referencing. That's what you keep dodging.

Your Scofield doctrine has you reading judgment passages as rescue missions, and wrath as reward. That’s not theology — that’s delusion. That’s what happens when you base your eschatology on footnotes instead of Scripture.

Matthew 24:29-31 says, Immediately after the tribulation... He will gather His elect. That’s the only timeline Jesus gives. But you’ve thrown it out. Why? Because your doctrine demands Jesus show up early to match a model invented in 1830 by a man no church in history ever followed until Oxford Zionists shoved his heresy into American seminaries.

So here’s what’s really happening:
You’re not quoting Jesus. You’re contradicting Him.
You’re not destroying a doctrine. You’re swinging at the truth and getting knocked out by the text every time.
And you’re not defending Scripture. You’re defending a lie that tells the Church to sit around and wait to be rescued instead of preparing to endure and overcome.

Jesus said, He that endures to the end shall be saved.
You say, He that gets raptured before things get hard shall be saved.
Your version isn’t in the Bible. It’s in Scofield’s margins. And you’re defending it like your life depends on it — when it’s your soul that should.

You’re not contending for the faith.
You’re a walking cautionary tale — a loud, arrogant example of what happens when people let prophecy peddlers write their theology.

So go ahead — quote another verse, rip it out of context, and pretend it means something it doesn’t. You’ve done it in every reply so far.

But know this: you’re not fighting me. You’re fighting the words of Christ Himself.
And when the tribulation does come — and there is no pre-trib escape — you’ll remember exactly who warned you.

Not Darby.
Not Scofield.
Not your pastor.
Jesus Christ — and everyone who still believes what He actually said.

QUOTE
"Darby.
Not Scofield.
Not your pastor.
Jesus Christ — and everyone who still believes what He actually said."

The reason you think others are obsessed with dead men is because your doctrine told you the dead ancients are more reliable than the bible.
That is why your dusty Bible can not be used.

So you assume others rely on men as you do.

I laugh every time you go down nothing burger road to arrive at a tired debunked doctrine that you have zero verses.
You can not support your deal that was taught you by men, and the embarrassment they put you in is what I see in every postrib when challenged.
They all do what you do.
(Get mad when I show them they do not have a single postrib rapture verse.)
Not a one.

 

[rebuilder 454]

So let me get this straight — you’re now claiming that Jesus comes “before the flood” because the eating and drinking happened before the ark door closed? That’s your airtight rapture theology? You’ve officially jumped the shark. That’s not exegesis — that’s fanfiction with a Scofield sticker slapped on top.

Here’s what the passage actually says, and I’ll use the whole thing since you clearly think quoting full blocks of text makes false doctrine magically true:

“As it was in the days of Noah, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away;
so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.”
— Matthew 24:37–39

You want the full quote? There it is. And it says exactly what I said it did.
Jesus directly compares His coming to the flood. And what happened in the flood?

“The flood came and took them all away.”

The wicked were taken.
The righteous were preserved.
The judgment came suddenly while people were busy doing “normal life.”
That’s the context.

The phrase “before the flood” simply sets the scene — Jesus is describing the attitude of the wicked right before judgment hits. That’s the point. They’re eating, drinking, distracted — and then BOOM: wiped out. That is the “taking.” You twisting that into “a pre-trib rapture before the flood” is like watching someone get hit by a train and calling it a wedding procession.

So yes — in this context, being “taken” is clearly negative.
Jesus even says “so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.”
You’re literally arguing that being taken = saved in a passage where being taken means drowning under God’s wrath.

You are not interpreting Scripture — you’re running it through a theological meat grinder to keep your Darby timeline alive.

And I’m supposed to be impressed that you quoted the whole paragraph? All you did was prove that you’re reading the ingredients list on a poison bottle and still drinking it anyway.

Your “rapture” isn’t biblical.
Your timeline is absolute nonsense.
And your inability to see that “taken” = judged in a passage explicitly comparing it to the flood isn’t just bad theology — it’s willful blindness.

There is no pre-trib rapture in Matthew 24.
There is no secret second coming.
There is no Scofield escape clause.

There is one return — after tribulation — in power and glory, where Jesus gathers His elect and destroys the wicked.

You don’t get to flip the script and call judgment salvation just because it fits your prophecy chart.
You’re not defending the Gospel.
You’re actively butchering it.
And you’re leading others to do the same.

So don’t quote more verses. You’ve quoted plenty.
Try understanding one of them before you post again.

QUOTE
"The phrase “before the flood” simply sets the scene — Jesus is describing the attitude of the wicked right before judgment hits. That’s the point. They’re eating, drinking, distracted — and then BOOM: wiped out. That is the “taking.” You twisting that into “a pre-trib rapture before the flood” is like watching someone get hit by a train and calling it a wedding procession.

So yes — in this context, being “taken” is clearly negative.
Jesus even says “so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.”
You’re literally arguing that being taken = saved in a passage where being taken means drowning under God’s wrath."

Jesus used lot also to depict his people removed before the disaster.

No wicked removed before the flood in Jesus analogy.
No wicked removed before the Sodom disaster.
No wicked removed in the 10 virgin parable before Jesus comes.

There are 3 witness I just presented debunking your man centered made up deal.

BUT IN EVERY CASE.
EVERY CASE. ALL 3 PRESENTED BY JESUS,
THE RIGHTEOUS ARE REMOVED PRETRIB.

Thank You Jesus for your word!!!!!!

 

[rebuilder 454]

The post tribulation rapture doctrine has a dilemma.
And that dilemma is in acts chapter one.
The angels declare that "this same Jesus that you see ascending. Shall we turn in like manner"
. That only fits a pretrib rapture that Jesus described of Jesus coming by himself.
To rapture the church.
"Like manner" is the dilemma.

So the challenge to post tribulation adearant's ,is to make that go away. Unless it can be tortured to make it say something else.

 

[rebuilder 454]

There are 2 escape verses in the Bible that are Jesus words.
In one verse, he says pray that you may be counted worthy to Escape the things that are about to come up on the earth and stand before the son of man.

The other verse is in revelation somewhere around chapter 3. Where are Jesus says "because you have kept the word of my testimony. I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is about to come upon the entire earth."
That fits with Jesus using Noah, lot and the 5 wise virgins to tell us the righteous are removed.
"Like manner" ,also, is pretrib rapture only

 

[rebuilder 454]

What no postribber seems to factor in is Where we see the the 2 covenants.
The Jew and the Gentile. We see that it is written in the word that Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles, Until The Times of the Gentiles are completed.
So that right there tells you. There has to be a rapture of the gentle bride before the trib starts. Jacob's/Israel's trouble.
It is then Gods Dealing with the jewish counterpart bride the two covenant people
And so in Roman's chapters 9, 10, 11, we see that the Jewish covenant people will be grafted back in.
We see in revelation, we have the Jewish first fruits choosing out of the tribes of ethnic Jewish men.
Then we see these men as first fruits.
And are sealed that they would not be stung by the flying scorpions.
Then we see these first fruits, ethnic Jews in revelation chapter 14 in heaven.
Which would be correct because they are first fruits, meaning they are harvested first.
then we see in revelation, 14: 14 ,that the main harvest of Jews is harvested

Postrib doctrine needs all that to go away, or torture it to say Something else

 

[rebuilder 454]

Is there a post tribulation rapture at hearant, That can explain to me, In their doctrine, the omission that the Antichrist kills all refusing the mark?
It says every man Woman and child, Whether bond or free, receives the mark.
Nobody escapes it.
If you refuse it, you die.
According to God's Word, there is nobody that is born again, that goes through the tribulation, to some make-believe postrib rapture, when there's nobody there to rapture!!!
.
I don't know the amount of torture that you can put in that dynamic to make it go away.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

the point is, a doctrine based on the "pillar" of one verse ,(trumpet) is shaky.
I can defend the pretribulation with about 7 verses
There are zero post tribulation verses.

I supported the 7th Trumpet as the last in context with the events in Rev
11:15-19. Also the 7 bowls are identified as the wrath of God, which are released at hat time. I am a Mid-Trib/ Pre-Wrath adherent btw, not Post - Trib.

 

[rebuilder 454]

What about all the changes, to the virgin parable, postrib rapture doctrine blatantly administers to it?
They will tell us that wicked sinners ( 5 foolish virgins), have the Holy Spirit, light, are waiting and watching for Jesus, and are in close fellowship with serious believers.
Even sleep either them.
Then at Jesus's coming ask the serious believers, not for salvation, but for MORE HOLY SPIRIT THAT THEY HAD EARLIER BUT DEPLETED.
Postrib doctrine actually insists wicked sinners do all of that.

Postrib doctrine butchers the parable!!!

Butchers a vivid analogy of Jesus gathering his bride!!!!
That is flat out rough.
Whew.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I supported the 7th Trumpet as the last in context with the events in Rev
11:15-19. Also the 7 bowls are identified as the wrath of God, which are released at hat time. I am a Mid-Trib/ Pre-Wrath adherent btw, not Post - Trib.

Ok.
I am centered on the compete picture.
Not an attempt for a hope of going through the trib.
( the trib where all die refusing the mark)
You do know that no believers escapes being killed?

 

[David in NJ]

[1Corinthians 15:51-55 KJV] 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

[1Thessalonians 4:13-18 KJV] 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

These verses establish that we will be gathered together to meet the Lord in the air. It is established that this gathering is a mystery, hid in God, until revealed to Paul. The gathering, being a mystery, can only be for the church, the body of Christ. This gathering is commonly referred to as the rapture, although that term is not found in scripture; nevertheless I will use it for familiarity sake.

The question before us is; is the rapture before the tribulation.

There is no definitive statement to this effect, however, there is scripture to consider that will support the belief that the rapture occurs before the tribulation.

[Romans 5:9 KJV] 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Here Paul says the church, the body of Christ, will be saved from wrath.

[1Thessalonians 5:9 KJV] 9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Here Paul confirms the body of Christ is not appointed to wrath.

[1Thessalonians 1:10 KJV] 10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

We are delivered from the wrath to come.

[Luk 3:7 KJV] 7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

John the Baptist spoke unto the people of Israel to flee the wrath to come. What is the wrath to come?

[Revelation 11:18 KJV] 18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
[Rev 14:10, 19 KJV] 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: ... 19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast [it] into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
[Rev 15:1, 7 KJV] 1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. ... 7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
[Rev 16:1 KJV] 1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
[Rev 19:15 KJV] 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Clearly the great tribulation is the wrath to come. We will not go through the wrath poured out in the tribulation.

[2Thessalonians 2:1-2 KJV] 1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Paul is speaking about the coming of Christ, which he calls the day of Christ in verse 2. In the day of Christ the man of sin will be destroyed by the brightness of his coming in verse 8.

Paul also speaks of our gathering together, the rapture, in verse 1 and tells them not to be troubled because the rapture event is associated with his coming and is not at hand.

[2Thessalonians 2:3, 6-8 KJV] 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; ... 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

The man of sin must be revealed before the coming of Christ, the day of Christ. What withholds the revealing of the wicked man of sin is the body of Christ; when the body of Christ is raptured and taken out of the way, he will be revealed.

The last scripture to consider follows:

[2Timothy 2:17-18 KJV] 17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; 18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

The question is what resurrection is past.

The first to consider is the resurrection at the last day, at the end of the tribulation. Could this be the resurrection that they were saying happened already?

Look at scripture about this resurrection:

[Matthew 24:29-30 KJV] 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

These celestial events occur at the coming of Christ.

[Matthew 25:31 KJV] 31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

When Christ comes he will establish his kingdom (Matthew 25:34) on earth and sit on David's throne (Luke 1:32).

[Matthew 8:11 KJV] 11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

This verses establishes that there will be a resurrection of the just at his coming to establish the kingdom on earth.

It would be impossible to miss this resurrection; how could one not see all the celestial events and Christ coming to earth and the resurrection of the old testament saints.

The only resurrection that they were saying was past would be the rapture.

Anyone who claims a "pre-trib" rapture is lying and is directly going against the words of the Lord Jesus Christ, against the OT Prophets and against the Apostles.

God's promise is that His Saints are delivered from His Wrath = Gospel, OT Prophets, Apostles

"wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come." - 1 Thess 1:10

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

The AC kills all the saints.
Anyone refusing the mark is killed.
That alone debunks any hope of running from cave to cave escaping the AC.
No such thing as making it through the trib.

You just said, “No one makes it through the tribulation.”
So now you’re not just denying Scripture —
You’re calling Jesus a liar.

Because Jesus said:

“He who endures to the end shall be saved.” (Matt. 24:13)

“Immediately after the tribulation... He will gather His elect.” (Matt. 24:29–31)

So tell me — who’s He gathering after the tribulation if nobody endures it?

Your doctrine isn’t Christianity —
It’s dispensationalist delusion in footnote form.

You’ve traded Christ’s warnings for Scofield’s fantasies,
replacing the call to endurance with a counterfeit promise of escape.

You say, “The Antichrist kills all the saints.”
But Scripture says:

“The Beast will make war on the saints…” — Revelation 13:7
“And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony…” — Revelation 12:11

They didn’t escape.
They overcame.

Your theology turns martyrs into failures
and tribulation into a scheduling error.

You’ve built your entire eschatology on a 19th-century hoax,
crafted in Oxford, footnoted by Scofield,
and spoon-fed to churches too lazy to read the actual words of Christ.

Jesus gave one timeline:

“Immediately after the tribulation…”

You tossed it out to keep your fantasy rapture chart intact.

But when the tribulation hits and there’s no getaway bus,
you’ll remember this moment —
and who warned you.

Not Scofield.
Not your misled pastor.
Jesus Christ — and everyone who still believes what He actually said.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Let's look at another postrib rapture pillar.
The "one coming dilemma "
Postribbers insist on one coming.

That means Rev 14:14 can not be taken seriously .
Rev14:14 does a number on their doctrine.

It sure does pay off to go into estateology with an open mind.
Because In revelation, if I start messing with the wording, or the verses, and try to ascribe meaning and change it , to fit my doctrine, I am promised the curses that are in the book of revelation.
Which are extremely painful and ugly.

Rev 14:14 is the Jewish main harvest.

It can not, in man's wildest dreams fit Rev 19 return in power and glory.

 

[soberxp]

Jesus is there in body as are the saints from paradise.

He is the true Spirit of God living in him. Not as us.
And Jesus Has taste death and raised up to heaven on the right hand of God.

 

[Doug]

Where did I get “Israel of God”?

I mean who taught you that we are the Israel of God

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

QUOTE
"The phrase “before the flood” simply sets the scene — Jesus is describing the attitude of the wicked right before judgment hits. That’s the point. They’re eating, drinking, distracted — and then BOOM: wiped out. That is the “taking.” You twisting that into “a pre-trib rapture before the flood” is like watching someone get hit by a train and calling it a wedding procession.

So yes — in this context, being “taken” is clearly negative.
Jesus even says “so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.”
You’re literally arguing that being taken = saved in a passage where being taken means drowning under God’s wrath."

Jesus used lot also to depict his people removed before the disaster.

No wicked removed before the flood in Jesus analogy.
No wicked removed before the Sodom disaster.
No wicked removed in the 10 virgin parable before Jesus comes.

There are 3 witness I just presented debunking your man centered made up deal.

BUT IN EVERY CASE.
EVERY CASE. ALL 3 PRESENTED BY JESUS,
THE RIGHTEOUS ARE REMOVED PRETRIB.

Thank You Jesus for your word!!!!!!

You keep yelling “thank you Jesus!” while quoting Scofield.

You say “the righteous are removed in every case” — but what Bible are you reading?

Because mine says:

Noah wasn’t raptured. He remained while the wicked were swept away.

“The flood came and took them all away. So shall the coming of the Son of Man be.” — Matt 24:39
The wicked were “taken.” Noah was left behind — on Earth.

Lot wasn’t raptured either. He fled — by foot — and barely escaped as fire fell.
That’s not a “type of the rapture.” That’s a type of God preserving the righteous through judgment, not removing them from the planet.

The five wise virgins? They weren’t removed pre-trib. The foolish were shut out — and the wise were taken into the wedding after the delay.

Jesus literally says:
“The bridegroom was delayed… but at midnight, a cry was heard… and those who were ready went in.” — Matt 25:5–10
So the righteous endure the delay, then are gathered at the end.

You keep throwing around words like “firstfruits” and “two brides” — but none of that is in Scripture. There’s one bride (Ephesians 5:25–27). There’s one body (Romans 12:5). And there's one gathering at the end — not two, not three, not a Scofield sci-fi trilogy.

Your “Gentile bride vs. Jewish bride” fantasy? Total fiction. The New Covenant doesn’t divide — it unites:

“He has made both one, and has broken down the dividing wall... making in Himself one new man from the two.” — Ephesians 2:14–15
“There is neither Jew nor Greek... for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” — Galatians 3:28

You’re not rightly dividing the Word.
You’re violently slicing it into dispensationalist pieces to preserve a fantasy where God saves the Church with a teleport gun and then gives Israel a second chance via torture.

As for Revelation 3:10 and Luke 21:36 —
neither one mentions a rapture.
Not a resurrection.
Not clouds.
Not a trumpet.
Not a return.
Not even the word “tribulation.”

“Kept from” doesn’t mean removed from the Earth.
It means preserved through — just like Noah, just like Lot, just like the saints in Revelation 12:

“The woman fled into the wilderness… and was nourished there for 1,260 days.”

You keep insisting “nobody escapes the mark,”
but Revelation shows countless saints refusing it and dying with victory:

“And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony… they did not worship the beast or receive his mark.” — Revelation 20:4 “Here is the patience of the saints.” — Revelation 14:12

The tribulation is not an escape story.
It’s a war — and Jesus wins through the blood of overcomers, not the vanishing act of cowards.

So no — we’re not the ones torturing the text.
We’re just reading it without Scofield’s fingerprints all over it.

You want a real escape?

“He who endures to the end shall be saved.”
That’s the only one Jesus promises.

And brother, at the rate you’re going —
you’re not escaping anything.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

I mean who taught you that we are the Israel of God

Where did I get the idea that we are the Israel of God?

From the Apostle Paul — not Darby. Not Scofield. Not Zionist-funded seminaries.

“And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.”
— Galatians 6:16

Let’s break it down:
Paul is writing to Gentile believers in Christ — and he explicitly calls them the Israel of God.
He’s not talking about unbelieving ethnic Jews.
He’s talking about those “in Christ” — the only people who now qualify as God’s covenant family.

You want more? Let’s go:

“Not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel.”
— Romans 9:6

“It is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise.”
— Romans 9:8

“If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
— Galatians 3:29

“He is not a Jew who is one outwardly… but he is a Jew who is one inwardly.”
— Romans 2:28–29

“There is neither Jew nor Greek… for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”
— Galatians 3:28

“He has made both one… having broken down the middle wall of separation.”
— Ephesians 2:14

“That He might create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace.”
— Ephesians 2:15

So yeah — the Body of Christ is Israel.
The Church is Israel.
Not the "ethnic nation" filled with Russian, Khazarian & Eastern European identity thieves now pretending to be related to Abraham.
Not dirt in the Middle East.
Not the UN project from 1948 (False Israel™).

The true Israel is in Christ.
Not in Tel Aviv.
Not in a Rothschild-funded state.
Not in a DNA test.
But in the Spirit — sealed by the blood of the Lamb, not the blood of man.

So next time you question where I got it —
try reading the Bible instead of regurgitating Dispensationalist science fiction.

Wake up.
The New Covenant doesn’t divide God’s people — it fulfills them.
There is one Body, one Spirit, one faith, one baptism, one Lord.

And here’s the cold, unshakable truth:
No Christian alive between 1830 and the 1st century ever believed what Scofield Dispensationalists believe today.
It’s not truth.
It’s heresy — invented in Britain, backed by the Rockefellers, marketed by Oxford,
and swallowed by a biblically illiterate Church addicted to emotional prophecy charts.

Jesus isn’t coming back to confirm Scofield’s blasphemous footnotes.
He’s coming back to judge the nations —
and gather His elect who endured to the end.

 

[Doug]

Where did I get the idea that we are the Israel of God?

From the Apostle Paul

Paul doesnt define who the Israel of God is ...............you cited this verse [Gal 3:28 KJV] 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.........there is neither Jew or Gentile so why would he call Gentiles Israel?..........he doent say who the Israel of God is but it is clear what it is not..........its not us Gentile believers.........we are a new creature.........[Gal 6:15 KJV] 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

 

[Doug]

So yeah — the Body of Christ is Israel.

The reason I asked who taught you this is because I see this teaching alot and am inclined to think you have been taught this

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

And most of you lurking around here don’t even realize why Scofield and the Rockefeller's pumped millions of "free Scofield Bibles" into American churches & seminaries starting in 1909.

They had to.

Because before that — for nearly 1,800 years — from Paul and the apostles to every branch of the faith that followed:
Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Anabaptist, Puritan —
they all held to one unshakable truth:

The Church is Israel.

Not a replacement.
Not a “parenthesis.”
Not Plan B.
The fulfillment.
The one body of Christ — the true heirs of the covenant.

Nobody believed God had two peoples.
Nobody taught that ethnic Israel would be restored apart from Christ.
Nobody believed in a secret rapture to rescue the Church before handing the world over to unbelieving, Polish Jewish converts.

That nonsense didn’t exist until the 1800s — when Darby invented it, and Scofield sold it.

Every believer understood that the promises made to Abraham were fulfilled in Christ — not in ethnicity, not in geography, and definitely not in some political state formed by the UN.

So if they wanted to hijack Palestine and hand it over to Khazarian and Russian secularists & converts,
they had to rewire the Church’s theology —
to make Christians believe that the Church was just a “parenthesis,”
and that ethnic Jews — even in unbelief — were still God’s chosen people.

It was theological mind control —
engineered by Scofield, financed by Zionist bankers, and spread like wildfire through footnotes and free copies of a Bible that replaced the Gospel with a geopolitical agenda.

No Christian in the first 18 centuries of the faith would’ve gone along with it.
They would’ve called it what it is: a satanic counterfeit — hijacking the covenant to legitimize theft, war, and deception.

So yes — they had to rewrite your Bible with Darby’s twisted theology and Scofield’s footnotes.
They had to rewire your mind.

Because as long as the Church knew it was Israel (as it had for 1,800 years),
Zionism didn’t stand a chance.

The Rothschild-backed abomination in the Middle East wouldn’t exist today — because the Church never would’ve allowed it.
Not when it still knew the truth.

The Scofield Dispensationalist brainwashing is arguably the most effective and destructive religious deception in human history.

 

[Doug]

So yeah — the Body of Christ is Israel.

This is what replacement theology says