IS THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE TRIBULATION?

[The Gospel of Christ]

I read from you how we are the Israel of God so where did you get that?

Where did I get “Israel of God”?

From Paul.
From Scripture.
From the Holy Spirit.

“And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.”
— Galatians 6:16

Not a nation-state. Not a bloodline.
Paul is writing to Gentile believers in Christ — and he calls them the Israel of God.

That’s not my opinion.
That’s the Word of God — and you just admitted you’ve never seen it.

And yet you’re out here building entire theological structures on charts, timelines, and speculation — while missing the actual verses that demolish your system.

So again I ask:

If your doctrine didn’t come from Paul, didn’t come from Jesus, and doesn’t even know Galatians 6:16 exists…
where did it come from?

Because it sure didn’t come from the Spirit of truth.

 

[rockytopva]

Hoping I am not around when this occurs...

24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the Lord which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the Lord.
25 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will punish all them which are circumcised with the uncircumcised; - Jeremiah 9

 

[rebuilder 454]

You've just released a whole lot of Scofield smoke and Darby dust for one thread — but let’s cut straight through it with a theological blowtorch.

You accuse me of “omitting” the so-called pre-trib rapture verses? I didn’t omit them — they don’t exist. Not one verse describes a secret coming of Christ before the tribulation. Not one. Every “proof” you try to offer is built on assumptions, parables twisted out of context, and blatant misreading.

Let’s take your claims and run them through a biblical woodchipper:

1. “Jesus taught a pre-trib rapture.”
Really? Where? Chapter and verse — go ahead. I’ll wait.

Jesus said:
“Immediately after the tribulation… he shall gather together his elect.”
— Matthew 24:29–31

That’s Jesus Himself giving you the timeline. And if you're saying "the elect" isn't the Church, then you’ve got to explain why Paul calls believers “God’s elect” (Romans 8:33, Colossians 3:12, Titus 1:1). You don’t get to redefine the elect every time it’s inconvenient to your system.

2. “Half taken, half left behind = pre-trib rapture!”
Read it again:
“As it was in the days of Noah…” (Matt. 24:37–41)
Who was taken in the flood?
The wicked were swept away.
Noah was left behind — alive, preserved.

So, being “taken” here is not about being raptured. It’s about being judged.

Jesus doubles down:
“So shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”
— Matthew 24:39

This is not a pre-trib verse — it’s a warning about sudden judgment.

3. “Revelation 14:14 is the rapture!”
You mean the harvest of the earth?
That’s Jesus returning in judgment — the sickle, the winepress, the wrath. That’s not a quiet whisking away. That’s the apocalypse.

And just two chapters later:
“These came out of great tribulation.”
— Revelation 7:14

So… when did they get raptured if they’re clearly in the tribulation?

4. “The virgins prove a pre-trib rapture!”
Parables are not timelines. They’re moral and spiritual lessons.

The point of the parable? Be ready.
Because when the Bridegroom returns — there’s no second chance.

That doesn’t prove a two-phase rapture. It proves urgency and faithfulness. Trying to build a rapture doctrine from a metaphor is like claiming the prodigal son disproves adoption.

5. “The early Church was heretical — don’t trust them!”
Oh, but trust Darby, who invented a totally new doctrine in 1830? Got it.

You can’t throw out 1800 years of unified Christian expectation — a visible return after tribulation — and replace it with a 19th-century hallucination funded by Zionist dispensationalists and footnoted into a Bible by a literal convicted criminal (Scofield).

You want one quote from the early Church Fathers proving they believed in the Second Coming after tribulation?

Irenaeus (180 AD):
“The Church shall flee into the wilderness, and tribulation will come, and then the Lord shall come from Heaven in glory…” — Against Heresies 5.29

Justin Martyr (150 AD):
“He shall come from the heavens with glory, when the man of apostasy, who speaks strange things… shall venture to do unlawful deeds on the earth against us Christians.”

That’s persecution before His return.

6. “You changed Matthew 24!”
No — I quoted it verbatim. You just don’t like what it says.

“AFTER the tribulation… THEN shall appear the sign… AND he shall gather…”
That’s a clear sequence.

You want “before”?
Find the verse.
You can’t. Because it’s not there.

Bottom Line:

You accuse me of following man — but I follow Jesus’ words, Paul’s letters, and the early Church.

Your “doctrine” is younger than the typewriter — and just as outdated.

You didn’t inherit it from the apostles. You inherited it from a long line of charlatans and TV prophecy peddlers:

Darby (1830s) – Invented the pre-trib rapture out of thin air

Scofield (1909) – Footnoted it into the Bible like it was canon

Hal Lindsey (1970s) – Sold it with The Late Great Planet Earth

Jack Van Impe – Quoted the entire Bible and somehow missed Matthew 24:29

John Hagee – Replaced the Gospel with Zionist nationalism

Tim LaHaye (1995) – Turned it into Left Behind fiction

That’s not apostolic teaching — that’s Scofieldian science fiction on par with the delusions of L. Ron Hubbard.

The pre-trib rapture is a modern hoax — a dangerous fantasy designed to lull the Church into passivity, waiting to be extracted instead of enduring and overcoming.

“He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”
— Matthew 24:13

2. “Half taken, half left behind = pre-trib rapture!”
Read it again:
“As it was in the days of Noah…” (Matt. 24:37–41)
Who was taken in the flood?
The wicked were swept away.
Noah was left behind — alive, preserved.

So, being “taken” here is not about being raptured. It’s about being judged.

It says "two men in a bed, One taken, The other left"

You say one is wicked, with the mark of the beast, and one is a righteous, a born again believer.
Your theory of all that is that half the world is wicked and taken in Judgement.
Wow, that is truly bizarre! A born again believer in bed with a wicked satan worshipper.
You sure you want to take that position???
Then you believe that DURING the tribulation there is normal life as Jesus descried the setting.
Nope, Jesus declared the setting as exactly opposite your man made model.(Mat 24;38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark)


You declare that Jesus will rapture the church after the tribulation without any verses, That is Just your belief,

So we can see that the "one taken" in your doctrine can not possibly be "half the earths population taken to judgement, because your theory demands half of mankind is saved and half unsaved.
That alone debunks your doctrine.
Ahem,Your entire deal is debunked

 

[rebuilder 454]

“Replacement theology” is a Dispensationalist slur — designed to smear the original Christian belief that the Church is the continuation and fulfillment of God’s covenant people.
Not a replacement, but a completion.

The Church doesn’t replace Israel — it is Israel.
(And any Christian who doesn’t know that is lost in the theological woods.)

Not a geopolitical nation. Not a bloodline.
But the people of faith — Jew and Gentile alike — grafted together under the blood of the New Covenant.

This was never about genetics or geography.
It’s about Christ. Always was. Always will be.

You ask what I do with Romans 11?
I read it. Carefully.

“Not all Israel is of Israel.” — Romans 9:6
“Branches were broken off… and you were grafted in.” — Romans 11:19
“If they continue not in unbelief, they shall be grafted in again.” — Romans 11:23

Paul’s point?
Faith in Christ is the condition.
Unbelief cuts you off.
Jew or Gentile — no exceptions.

Romans 11 doesn’t predict a future for ethnic Israel apart from Christ.
It offers hope of restoration if they turn to Him — the same offer extended to all.

“He is not a Jew who is one outwardly… but inwardly.” — Romans 2:28
“If you belong to Christ, you are Abraham’s seed.” — Galatians 3:29

As for the 144,000 in Revelation?
Symbolic. Representative. Apocalyptic literature is full of signs and patterns.

They’re called “the servants of God” — not Levitical priests.
Not nationalists. Not politicians.

The very next verse shows “a great multitude no man could number, of all nations.” — Revelation 7:9

You think God’s elect are a literal 144,000 bloodline Jews, while ignoring the uncountable multinational remnant that follows?

That’s not theology.
That’s Scofieldian numerology with a Zionist twist.

No — this isn’t “replacement theology.”
It’s New Covenant theology — the actual position of Jesus, Paul, Peter, the early Church, and the entire New Testament.

“This is the covenant I will make… I will write my law on their hearts… and they shall be my people.” — Jeremiah 31:33
(fulfilled in Hebrews 8:8–13)

If you’re in Christ — you are Israel.
If you reject Christ — you are outside the covenant.
Doesn’t matter your ancestry, your passport, your DNA test, or your flag.

And what makes this even worse?

Over 95%+ of people in modern False Israel™ are white, Eastern European converts — Khazars, Russians, Poles, and secular Zionists — who are about as related to Abraham & David as Bruce Lee and Mao Zedong.

Their ancestors were force-converted to Judaism in 740 A.D. by King Bulan at the end of a sword — and they couldn’t have found biblical Israel on a map even if the entire map was labeled “Israel.”

This isn’t prophecy fulfilled.
It’s a Rothschild-backed identity scam, wrapped in Old Testament cosplay and sold as divine destiny to Scofield-brainwashed evangelicals who can’t tell the Gospel of Christ from a Left Behind box set.

At this point, even Kim Jong-un in a prayer shawl has a stronger claim to the covenant than some of these U.N.-backed, Tel Aviv paper Jews.

What do you call a white Russian, Ashkenazi, or Polish convert to Judaism claiming they’re genetically related to David and Jesus?
That’s right — a false Jew.

Not my label — Scripture’s.
“I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.” — Revelation 2:9

Lineage doesn’t save you. Jesus does.
And without Him, there is no covenant — only counterfeit.

But here’s the warped irony — they’re not even related to biblical Jews.
They’re white Eastern Europeans, descended from Khazar converts and Slavic tribes.
So this isn’t just spiritual fraud —
It’s genealogical fiction wrapped in a Zionist flag and rubber-stamped by the U.N.

The entire thing is beyond insane — a global delusion where Europeans with no bloodline connection to Abraham claim the land, the covenant, and the promise… while rejecting the very Messiah it was all pointing to.

That’s not restoration.
That’s a geopolitical impersonation —
And every Scofield-soaked evangelical who defends it is helping stage the longest-running identity theft in biblical history.

If you’re trying to inherit the promise without Christ — through bloodlines and border fences — you’re not reclaiming prophecy.
You’re committing spiritual fraud.

Any gospel that elevates ethnic identity above the cross is not just error — it’s blasphemy.
It’s another gospel. A cursed gospel.

“If any man preach any other gospel… let him be accursed.” — Galatians 1:9

This isn’t a theological side quest.
This is heresy in league with Satan — the very deception Christ Himself warned about.

If your gospel requires Jesus to take a backseat to a bloodline, a flag, or a Rothschild-funded nation-state, then you are not preaching Christ. You are preaching a Scofield-fueled delusion — crafted in hell, footnoted into the Bible, and sold to the masses.

The true Israel is not in Tel Aviv.
It’s found in Christ — Jew and Gentile, redeemed by the blood of the Lamb.

Preach anything else?
You’re not defending Scripture.
You’re preaching Satan’s gospel — and Jesus will crush it when He returns.

You’re not witnessing the return of God’s people.
You’re watching a Rothschild-funded costume party — and Scofield made you think it was the Book of Revelation.

LOL
You just presented your theory that mirrors replacement theology.
You can not reconcile the 144k ethnic Jews or romans ch 11.
...nor can anyone trying to make that doctrine fit scripture